Hi everyone.

Anonymous

October 9,2021 at 6:02PM UTC

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Hi everyone. I'm looking for some feedback on whether I should read my current situation as a red flag with a potential employer. I'm currently employed as Senior Manager at a company where I do not think I will have the opportunity to advance much within the next couple of years.

I am ready to level up to a Director position. I am truly doing that level of work already and unfortunately have not been recognized for my contributions to the team. It's a tough place to work in my department, as we report up to a VP that doesn't understand the complexity of our work or really understand the value of the department as a whole.

I have decided to look elsewhere and have been applying for director level positions. One of them was, "Head of [department name]". I assumed that would at minimum be a director position. Also, when I initially spoke to the recruiter, when asked my salary range, I told her that depending on the bonus structure, my salary expectations are between X and Y. She told me at that time that my range was within their range.

I went through six interviews in total. The position is a great fit for my experience and skill set. The whole team really seemed to love me and I truly think this would be an amazing place to work. Well, I received an offer from them last week. It was offered as a senior manager title for $10K less than the bottom of my stated salary range. The type of work is actually director level work, as I would be starting a brand new team that would include seven or eight people. When I mentioned my disappointment in the title to the recruiter, she said that they advertised it as "Head of..." to draw in more candidates. It honestly feels a bit like a bait and switch to me. And I don't understand why they would offer so much less than my stated range when I was very clear up front.

They are regrouping and will get back to me next week with their final offer. My question to this group is, if they do meet my expectations, should I look at this experience as a red flag that should make me reconsider working for them?

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GingerintheKitchenOctober 9,2021 at 6:52PM UTC
Titles have become almost meaningless in the modern professional environment where a role that used to be "Representative" has now been spun and shined up into "specialist" the "executive assistant" which was previously " administrative or secretarial titled and the sheer insane number of VP roles from EVP, and SVP, to AVP, and you have janitors that are now the
"Director of fascilities"etc...a year ago I changed positions . After losing my job due to covid related cut backs and 8 months of unemployment, I found my dream job. But if I had gone by the title only I would not have even applied. Where my previous title was Director of Client Services (and prior to that I was a Program Manager) my new position is Supervisor of Property Preservation and Liquidation (ridiculous mouthful, isn't it?) And certainly sounds like it is a lower degree of difficulty/skill/responsibility than my Director title. But, it is much more difficult, the pay is 15k more than my previous with possibility of another 12k in monthly bonus (just finishing up my first year and hit the monthly incentive bonus 5 out of 12 months, so total first year increase as a supervisor compared to director is a 20k increase!!) My number of direct reports also went down from 16 to 4!
So in my experience, neither the title nor the number of direct reports informed the salary or growth potential of my new job
This is why i would never sweat a title nor would I chase a title. What matters is the specifics of the role, the impact your responsibilities have on the overall operation and depending on what dept or division within the company... if it is a support position or a position directly responsible for driving growth and profit? A dept head of internal audit and a dept head of acquisition or business development would in many companies be miles apart in terms of responsibility, and the salary difference reflects that. Both have shiny impressive title plates on their office door, but one starts at a C-Level 6 figure position with loads of fringe options, benefits and growth potential, the other is the end of the line for further career growth, and a career VP may hit low 6 figures at the top of their salary band . Not that internal audit is not important, it protects the company from loss and of course there is value in mitigating loss of revenue or loss of license due to compliance issues etc.... But, the dept that GENERATES the profit and grow the business are always going to have higher salary bands from entry level to SVP.
If this company is offering you mentorship to grow you toward a C Level executive role, then I think you need to ask yourself what are your overall goals. Are they a title or are they a growth of your skillet and a continuous journey though your industry to become a future leader,positioned to become a mentor and ultimately affecting not just the company but the industry as a whole?
If you answered yes to the first one... Then shop around until you find a title that you feel you deserve. If you answered yes to the 2nd one, then discuss this offer with a company who is not just interested in hiring the "you right now" but is also interested in the "you you are going to become' and are looking to invest in your future success. The 10k pay differential can and should be discussed as a reasonable offer, if it is clearly outlined as your current market value and they are going to invest time in bringing your value up to the range discussed and will provide you with regular performance reports to ENSURE you reach the level that you both intend. While they can set the expectation regarding the timeline for you to reach that goal, you will still need to reach it, so they shod clearly outline expectations and provide you with all the tools needed to reach it within that timeframe. What if you hit your milestones early? Will they be willing to promote early? What if you don't reach it within that timeframe? What options are going to be on the table?
I would discuss all topics in detail but please don't focus on title and pay as your two most important, this may be something you put out already and it could be the driving force behind their hesitancy to hire you into that position now. It is expected that way that level, your concerns are not about paycheck and title. No one hits c level working for a paycheck... They are working on growth and have a consistent and insistent company focused mentality. Show them you want the job because you KNOW you can help strengthen and grow their operation, that NO ONE is better suited to help them reach their goals then you, and the big time pay (and stress) will come knocking on your door. Good luck!
AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 6:59PM UTC
Job titles depend on both the field and the organization. What's called "director" one place could have a different title someplace else. The big questions would be whether your salary package is equal to others with the same duties & responsibilities and whether you want to do the work. Starting a new department from scratch is risky for the organization. Is there growth projected for the department? Maybe tying your title & salary to the success of the department would be an option for them.
Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.October 9,2021 at 7:09PM UTC
Answer to your question: yes. Using a fake title to draw in applicants feels a bit like a bait and switch because IT TOTALLY IS! The fact that they're offering you $10k less than what they already agreed to shows that they have no respect for you as a professional. This is not a company I would trust any kind of bonus structure from, they clearly play the "tell them what they want to hear" game. Even if they offered you a salary that you're comfortable with, I can almost guarantee that it won't make up for the company culture.
AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 8:19PM UTC
Run like the wind!!
AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 9:08PM UTC
I would say keep looking unless you absolutely need to leave your current company.
The reason is they don't see you as a director at the moment and see you as someone who could get the job done and save them some $ in the interim. They see your current title and made a little step but are only looking at the bottom of your range and decide to go even lower. It's a win win for them.
They most likely will bring in someone above you at a later date and you'll remain in the lower rung of your range.
VMOctober 10,2021 at 1:39PM UTC
This!
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistOctober 10,2021 at 4:02AM UTC
You should absolutely look at these issues as gigantic red flags. Companies are on their best behavior when they're trying to convince you to come to work for them. It's only going to get worse from here.
They pulled a bait and switch on the title, are trying to get someone to do director level work for senior manager title/ comp and they low balled you on the offer.
I would be very leary of accepting an offer from this company. My advice would be to consider continuing your job search.
AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:46PM UTC
Yes.
AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 2:25PM UTC
I would kindly decline the position. This wasn’t bait and switch. They flat out lied. I know it sucks to have an offer, but better to look now than while miserable in another job.
AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 6:05PM UTC
This is interesting. The industry I'm in, the "Head of..." roles are top level and equivalent to a VP role. Which also means the Head of.... gets paid MUCH more than director, not less! Either way, this is a major red flag. If they bait and switch during the interview process, imagine what they do when you're in the position.
Monica Lynn SadlerOctober 11,2021 at 12:42PM UTC
Run! She flat out told you that the title was made to "draw in" more candidates. My gut is that there is something they're not telling you. You sound like you a highly skilled candidate. I would not suggest you run the risk of working for them. I'm afraid you'll be further disappointed. The right job is out there for you where you will be appreciated and your employer will be honest. Praying for you.
AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:46PM UTC
Titles can mean very different things at different organizations/industries, so unless it's critically important to you, try not to get hung up on that and instead focus on the job description/comp package. That being said, having changed the title from posting to offer should be a red flag unless accompanied by a plausible explanation (restructuring, re-evaluation of the role, etc). Of course, they should have told you about reorg plans during the interview process. As others have said, it's a big red flag that they purposely inflated the title to draw in more candidates. It's wrong for an employer to inflate the job title for the same reason it's wrong for an applicant to inflate their employment history. At best, this company simply doesn't have it together and doesn't realize how poorly their actions have come across. At worst, they're trying to pull something. Either way, best to look elsewhere.