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Why are women so mean to women?
Especially when the woman may be a high achiever who is going through a hard time. I've seen and even experienced myself times when I set goals for myself and the process has not been easy. I've tried using my EAP to have someone to talk to, tried talking to female friends, or online discussion forums. Instead of being an open space to share these feelings that are not easy to share, they gaslight and neg. From my personal experiences it causes me to shut down. I read posts online on Fairy God Boss. For the most part they have been positive but I've also seen some non-anonymously post where their responses were so mean with a later "I'm here for you!" "Cheering you on!" That is inauthentic, really confusing, and hurtful...So it got me asking this question..."Why are women so mean to high achieving women who are making an effort to be vulnerable when going through a hard time?" Has anyone in this group ever felt this way or experienced this before?
User deleted comment on 10/03/23 at 7:03AM UTC
I think that "mean" is a highly subjective term. It all depends on what you're looking for when you post in an online forum and whether or not you're brave enough to be specific. Are you looking for a place where people will pat you on the back and tell you that what you're feeling is normal and that everything is going to work out? Or are you looking for a place where you will receive practical advice about a problem you're experiencing or a professional roadblock you can't get past? For example, I have a girlfriend who dreads going to work every day; has nightmares about innocuous dealings with her boss; and generally is ruining her health over a job she should have given up a long time ago. When she asks me what she should do, I tell her she should quit, or transfer, or talk to her boss; or really just do anything except lay down and live with it. But she's not ready to take even small steps and feels that I am being mean to her by telling her to take action instead of complaining about how awful it is. Actually, she's asking me the wrong question. Not "what should I do?" but "can you just sympathize with me and tell me I'm right, even if you think I'm not?" So, I'm one of the "mean" ones, I suppose.
Can’t agree more with what has been shared already. There is competition between women which leads to jealousy and a feeling of one up-womanship ( this term should be in the dictionary now lol). Also the desire to prove that “if I can do it alone why can’t you”. This kills the respect in the relationship. Women have done so much now in the workforce, they should learn to loosen up and provide a helping hand. Not be too harsh on one self will lead to not being critical of other.
I think it should happen less now - one good thing of being remote for so long should bring more empathy forward.
Things will change for the better in the workplace when women learn how to look out for each other. Sure, we can blame men, blame sexism, scream discrimination. Problem is women do not do a good job when it comes to helping each other because it's the damn right thing to do. Everything is a competition. Time to end the competition and really help each other out for once.
Mean girl syndrome? coping tactics? Everyone is a critic or an expert. I'm not sure.
I've encountered men at the workplace who said mean things to me. When I complained to my direct supervisor, who was a woman, she told me that, that's just how he is and not to take it personally.
I've had a director in the past who was no nonsense and very intense, sometimes vindictive, she was a woman in a male dominated field and used her aggressiveness to get things done and influence. One of those male subordinates was one of my managers at one point, and he just complained about her all the time. (Which I thought was unprofessional)
When a woman is perceived as mean, she is ostracized and labeled as a "b*tch" "not a team player" or even "innapropriate."
Men are rewarded, protected or forgiven by men and women if they are mean. Is not the same for women, they are expected to be communal.
However, I find that men can be as mean or meaner than women, it just displayed differently and socially accepted. Part of the boy's club.
My current manager is a woman, and she is very calm, polite and soft spoken. First impressions are of warmth. But when you work with her for a while, she has mean touch and passive aggressive behaviors.
Now is she being mean on purpose, or is that her way of coping with her role? Is meanness a sign of experience? Or wisdom to them? I don't know
As a woman, it's a shock when you encounter a "mean girl" at work, because they don't initially expose it right away, it's a gradual discovery.
That's why it's so disturbing and disappointing.
In any case, I think some of us talk too much and perhaps in trying to communicate, we instead alienate.
We need to be better listeners.
I'm sorry you're experiencing that. Could we consider sensitivity as a continuum, in that what I may consider helpful but very direct, someone else may consider completely insensitive and "mean". I think it comes from differing backgrounds, norms, etc. It's hard online to judge because we don't know each other in person. So, I'd say, take what's helpful to you (what you view as genuine and constructive), and maybe consider/ ponder what at first look seems "mean", and discard the rest.
I completely agree with this framing. Thank you for articulating it so well.
I'm speaking from an objective professional lenses: It's due to lack of empathy, emotional intelligence, people management skills, and other internal factors that are being projected on people. For professionals, learn to practice empathy if you're going to work with people. For relationships outside of work, I don't know what to say to that other than get new friends or practice empathy to learn to be a better friend. I've already started cutting people lose and building new friendships. Mean is not subjective. Meanness is intentional. The mystery is that the person being mean more than likely doesn't know why they are being mean and it's usually an internal thing that they have to figure out for themselves as some others have described. When it comes to a support group though, that behavior is inexcusable and it's sad because it is shutting people down to silence.
The ironic part when it comes to online is the individual had so much time to think about what they were going to post so that insensitivity was definitely intentional. It says a lot about that person. To people who think being direct is being insensitive, I hope you figure out why you're like that.
I'll leave it at that. I hope we figured out why we're mean to each so we can stop and people won't be scared to post anymore.
I've experienced this at work, learned about Queen Bee syndrome, and it's the reason I detached from my job and stopped caring. Not sure there's any great solution there other than understanding that it's more about them lacking self-esteem. And yes, I've experienced it here in posting vulnerable questions, every single time. It is very frustrating and I now think twice before posting because there's always one person who just wants to tear me down even when I'm already having a hard time.
I’ve had the exact same experience on here and also think twice about posting.
I'm sorry you go through that too. Between you and me that's why I posted this un-anonymously ;). I knew I was going to be judged, but I didn't care. It's to make a point. We can be mean to each other. But yes, it is frustrating.
There a great people in the world and crappy people. I don't think it is gender specific and I really don't think it has to do with a level of high achieving. Maybe it perspective or just time on this earth but I have seen people rally and support and I've seen people tear down and make situations much worse.
I agree it's not one gender that treats people poorly but this post is specific based on experiences. This is an example of deflecting on an issue that is destroying our culture and why companies are forming affinity groups and marketing their workplaces as spaces with Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.
We had a VP at a small company that could have wrote the lesson plan on what you're talking about. It destroyed our culture, so yes it's definitely prevalent! One thing that seemed to work for the other women in the company was to build genuine connections with each other. This helped do a few things. 1. We knew we weren't alone in our experiences. This especially helped to check whether we were reading into a situation too far or not. 2. Because we were experiencing it together (and hated it!) it helped us bond more as women and reaffirm each other. If one of us gave an example of some really terrible thing that was said or done to us the rest of us could help build their confidence around the situation. 3. We were more conscious of giving each other credit for work they did. Since we knew there were "favorites" or that this VP would try to take credit for our work, we specifically called each other out with praises in front of other members of the leadership team.
You have to be careful not to turn these bonds into gossip sessions, but it truly can build positive relationships with other women in the workplace if you let it.
I love your story. Thanks for sharing. And I get it. It's hard and your VP was brave to do that but the end result was positive. For me personally, this was not an easy post for me to share. It's not about rallying or being "needy" it's about having a conversation of an issue that is common with women. We know its a thing, so why not address it? I know that I'm not the only person who goes through this in my career. It's okay to have these conversations to support each other and to know we're not alone. I mean, that's the point of this support group, right? Thanks for sharing :).