270
Let me ask a question.
As a VIP for FGB, I am finding that I am struggling with all of the power that "recruiters" have. I have been asked to interview for several companies of a mix in size: some big, some small. In it, I have been asked to do 4 hours of assessments for one company; at another, I was asked to write my own "spin"; and the latest is that I won't be asked for an 'initial' interview, aka phone screen, without completing an assessment AND a series of pre-screening questions.
When I asked very basic questions of: "What is the salary range for the role?", "What is the recruitment timeline?", "How many candidates are there?", and lastly, "How many interviews are required?", I was told to complete the test and survey before the first call and all will be magically answered later.
I am sorry. I have been down this road before. I have invested hours (like many of you) in the "process" only to be given a "Dear John" at the end. Is this the new power trip that specialists in HR and Recruitment can use to lord over the candidate pool? Alot has changed since Covid came about.
Another trend I am seeing is that the roles are the same but the salary has been cut by as much as $100K for positions that I interviewed in the past. Do companies really think that just because of a pandemic they can AND WILL pay you nothing because you need or want to work? Is that even legal? I have watched videos on interviewing bias and this all seems to fall into that category.
As you can see by my writing, I am pretty charged up right now. I don't think it is polite or professional not to be transparent before a candidate invests too much time and effort into a role. I am not going to "fight" to win over a low paying job; I will fight for a company that believes in work-life balance, company culture, and the well-being of its staff.
At the beginning of covid and mid-way through, I asked a few recruiters why they breadcrumb and ghost candidates. Their responses were what I expected. They were overworked and had an influx of candidates that are all qualified for roles but because of the pandemic, there are too many that are unemployed. While I respect their honesty, it still isn't professional to lead on a candidate.
In my situation, I have been told VERBATIM that I was the candidate of choice or the best candidate in the pool. All nice to hear, but I am still trying to find the next right fit. Yep! I have asked for feedback. In 10 interviews, only 1 person returned a response and I was simply told that they wanted me but they went with an internal candidate because they already knew the team. This response, was after a 3rd round of pre-interviews and then a board or panel face-to-face discussion.
Most recently, I was in an interview with an all male board and felt that I was not attractive or young enough for their needs based upon the questions asked and the conversation during the online meeting. I get it; some companies want younger because they cost less and are more malleable to today's idea of what culture should be at work. Just be upfront with me about it before I go down the rabbit hole.
As I start to simmer, I am also realizing that companies are using the idea of remote work as part of salary. I guess companies don't realize how much is at stake. For me, I have been remote for 75% of my career. I find it much better to work where I am comfortable. Not be stressed about "Punching In on Time"; not being part of water cooler chat. I like remote work because I can make my schedule my own and be more productive and high-functioning than if I had to rush around between buildings and customers, losing a ton of time to being behind a wheel.
When I worked at the #1 company in the world, they would never allow remote work unless you were sick. Was it because they didn't have the technology? No. It was simply because the managers didn't know how to manage from afar. That time is past.
Remote work is the new wave of the future. Staff are more productive; happier. Real estate costs are cut. Employees don't come in late or take ridiculous time off. Inter-office drama is gone. This is the new norm and is not about salary. It is about work-life well-being and balance.
I am excellent at what I do, which is alot. I have a pedigree and a skillset that many others in my field don't have. Don't contact me for junior level roles and don't waste my time by either being your candidate that you use as the "competitive" one or as the overqualified one. Contact me because you value what I can bring to the table and how I can revolutionize your business.
Mike drop...
Anonymous
08/07/21 at 1:21PM UTC
I feel like Wendy of caspar always being ghosted. It is more challenging when you struggle with interviewing and the recruiter embellishes your resume Before interviews with the company.
Anonymous
08/07/21 at 1:19PM UTC
Thank you for sharing. With the salary I had a similar conversation with someone on that
Anonymous
08/06/21 at 11:21PM UTC
Thank you!, for expressing what I have been feeling and seeing for a long period of time. The whole hiring process is very stressful.
Catherine Cohen
20
08/06/21 at 2:27PM UTC
As someone who is going through the job hunt process, I have to agree with you.
I have gone through 7+ rounds with one company to then be told NO
I have taken assessments an cohens been ghosted. I know I did well btw
I am now in process of an interview, and am being asked to develop a full plan within 48 hrs of them giving me a case study.
I know finding a job is full time work, but I feel like some recruiters/HR departments have created some pretty crazy processes.
Just my two cents!
Anonymous
08/08/21 at 9:53PM UTC
Be careful writing plans. I wrote a press release and plan for department requirements and then crickets. Used my skill, my time, and ghosted me.
Denise Donahue-Perreira
176
08/09/21 at 6:49PM UTC
So sorry this happened to you, I'd be upset too.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist
21.81k
08/07/21 at 11:43PM UTC
I'm not sure if this is an industry standard for your type of position but if it's not, you can always say no to this kind of stuff.
User deleted comment on 08/07/21 at 1:20PM UTC
Jennifer TaylorCommunications Professional
1.28k
08/06/21 at 12:40PM UTC
Preach!
Carmen HonackerFraud/Risk, Content Moderation, Trust & Safety
473
08/06/21 at 12:26PM UTC
"I was simply told that they wanted me but they went with an internal candidate because they already knew the team..." Boy, do I know that one. In my case they literally said "we went with the devil we know."
I wish I could give you some great advise, but these days it simply seems that integrity and decency are things from the past.
Stephanie Mansueto, Corporate Recruiter & Job Hunting CoachRecruiter & Job Hunting Coach for Millennials
499
08/05/21 at 1:57AM UTC
Woooo weeee. Senior Corporate Recruiter here for a large global company that doesn't make candidates talk to a robot or take 1,322 tests during before they talk to a real life person, so let me address some of your grievances. Some of which I find to be justified, and some to be a bit entitled which I understand is coming from a place of frustration. I get it. I've heard it all before. And having been on both sides, I have an appreciation for both sides.
1) Salary expectations - Most large companies use market data from survey companies like Mercer to determine their salary ranges, and those ranges can be really wide, but are based on company reported data, cost of living in a city, industry, skills, and position title and level. So when you say some jobs have been cut by $100k from when you last interviewed, that sounds like a disconnect to me. Perhaps that position was replaced by technology and the required human input for that function is of a lower skill set that doesn't command a higher rate anymore.
2) If you're getting through all these rounds of interviews without an offer and without getting much feedback, then there is the likelihood there is a soft skill lacking that Recruiters or panelists you're interviewing with are apprehensive to give you. Perhaps it is your communication or management style. Just a thought. I always give feedback to candidates especially in circumstances where they lack a skill or specific experience that the selected candidate has, but if you're getting no feedback at your experience level, there's an X factor you're not accounting for and I bet it's a soft skill that has some sensitivity around it when it comes to giving honest feedback.
3) Recruiters often don't give direct feedback because 1) they simply don't have the time. When you've got 20-30 positions you're recruiting for with say, 5-8 candidates per position (not even counting the # of applications Recruiters have to personally sort through), and your priority is to find the best candidate and get them locked-in and you have to make a choice between giving 100% top client service to your top candidates versus taking time to give feedback to your back-up or not best candidates, you're going to put your time towards making sure the top candidates are taken care of. Recruiters often don't get to dictate their work load so getting mad at a Recruiter for not giving you feedback because they don't have time is like getting mad at a Customer Service rep because they are going by their script which they are bound to by management. Get mad at today's talent acquisition culture, not the Recruiter. 2) You just don't know how candidates will take feedback 3) Candidates have become accustomed to not receiving feedback and have stopped asking. 4) There could be legal implications depending on what feedback the Recruiter provides so many err on the side of providing no feedback at all (not saying it's right, but it's a reality).
4) Employers absolutely can and should be using remote work as part of a total package. Not every company allows for remote work. It's only become more normal in light of the pandemic. For those that do, of course they are going to use it as a selling point. Your expectation of remote work is a bit entitled, in my opinion.
5) Completely agree with you that Recruiters should not be contacting you for junior level roles especially if your level is clear from your LinkedIn profile or resume.
6) Your comment regarding ageism is valid but don't waste another minute with a company that is ageist. You need to focus on the positives that you bring to an employer because of your age and experience.
7) This is small but worth noting, you do not need to know how many candidates are interviewing for a position. Just focus on interviewing well and proving you're the best person for the job regardless of the size of the candidate pool.
Good luck to you!
April
274
08/07/21 at 12:39PM UTC
Thank you, Recruiter. This is helpful. Those of us who are job seekers are frustrated with so much unknown.
Anonymous
08/05/21 at 2:09PM UTC
All good points with a few corrections. Remote work has existed long before the pandemic. It can be referred to as traveling roles, telecommuting, work-from-home, and remote. I have been doing this type of situation for years and never once has it been part of salary. With that said, I can see where the covid media scare has changed things. Also, as an FYI, I don't see"entitled" anywhere in this commentary. This person is likely in a role work remote work has always existed and never been "paid" out for. Again, I think your statement is fair but not accurate.
Some roles require F2F employment while many others do not. Think about consultants and sales folks. Their roles often take them outside of cube city; therefore, they are travelers and often remote; many times, never seeing an office. They don't get paid for being remote and often work more hours than the average 9 to 5er.
Soft skills is an interesting thought.
I disagree on not knowing how many candidates there are in the pool. I ask this question during the interview process so that I know if I am a genuine candidate or just the competitive one. I am up for a role right now where they were very transparent on the # of folks interviewing and how many they would select for final rounds. I have been selected as 1 of 2 finalists for the position.
With that said, it is a role that I held previously and the salary is well below expectations as it is a global position, with travel. The salary for this particular position, per Salary.com should be at least $85K higher. So again, I can see where the writer is coming from. Folks are trying to higher staff to do more work for less pay.
Ageism is more prevalent today than ever before. It is something that no one wants to acknowledge but needs to be made aware of.
Michelle820
86
08/07/21 at 4:45PM UTC
Absolutely ageism is a reality. I am living it! I have done the interviews and was told an excellent candidate. Then they figure out my age (which I do not look) but by asking what year I graduated high school! And that’s it!! I was even told by one very large company, we are looking for older workers, they are reliable, well rounded and bring a wealth of information. And then ghosted me. When I called for an update was told sorry went with someone else and to try their call center. Really!!
April
274
08/07/21 at 6:50PM UTC
The question about high school graduation is completely a give away. Not related to the job.
See other replies
Stephanie Mansueto, Corporate Recruiter & Job Hunting CoachRecruiter & Job Hunting Coach for Millennials
499
08/05/21 at 4:51PM UTC
If the position is typically remote or even part-time remote like you mention for certain sales positions then yes, I don't think it would be seen as a benefit, but if it's not typically a remote position but they are making it remote for the candidate as an added benefit to the candidate, then why wouldn't an employer consider that as part of a non-monetary benefit in an overall comp package? The OP didn't designate this in their post.
Knowing the number of candidates - have you ever rescinded your candidacy because of that? I have never known a candidate to rescind their application based on there being too many applicants.
I agree that people are being asked to do more for the same pay (or maybe less), and thus pay should go up, but the OP mentioned by 100K. That's insane unless we're talking about potential loss of commission or bonus based on having to meet certain sales targets that have gone up. I personally would consider changing careers if I was losing that much in comp. I'm still dubious of that $100k pay cut amount though.
Anonymous
08/05/21 at 1:11AM UTC
YOU SAID:
"In my situation, I have been told VERBATIM that I was the candidate of choice or the best candidate in the pool. All nice to hear, but I am still trying to find the next right fit."
Yes, and? That's literally how the interviewing process works.
YOU SAID:
"Yep! I have asked for feedback. In 10 interviews, only 1 person returned a response and I was simply told that they wanted me but they went with an internal candidate because they already knew the team. This response, was after a 3rd round of pre-interviews and then a board or panel face-to-face discussion."
Companies have gotten sued for giving honest feedback so most companies will no longer do that because of liability issues and I don't blame them.
It's certainly not unusual for a company to choose an internal candidate over an outside candidate. Growing employees careers within the company is how companies hold on to good employees. Again, this is how the interviewing process works.
And as for recruiters, they're under enormous pressure to get their jobs filled. They don't make hiring decisions and they don't set the qualifications/requirements. Hiring managers do that.
YOU SAID:
"Don't contact me for junior level roles and don't waste my time by either being your candidate that you use as the "competitive" one or as the overqualified one. Contact me because you value what I can bring to the table and how I can revolutionize your business."
First of all, just because a company contacts you for a position, doesn't mean you have to respond. If you feel the position is not a fit for you, just ignore it or delete the email. I realize the interview process can be frustrating, but based on your last comment, you expect recruiters and hiring managers to know what you bring to the table before they contact you and before you go through the interview process.
As far as the things mentioned in your first paragraph, can you just say no? Are those standard in your industry/space? If they're standard, then what do you expect?
Personally, I never do assessments. If you can't have a conversation with me, can't look at my background and know whether or not I'm a fit for your organization, I don't want to work there. If you don't want to invest the time in doing those other things requested, then don't.
Anonymous
08/05/21 at 12:51AM UTC
YOU SAID:
" Do companies really think that just because of a pandemic they can AND WILL pay you nothing because you need or want to work? Is that even legal? I have watched videos on interviewing bias and this all seems to fall into that category."
Uh, companies can pretty much pay whatever they want. How, specifically, would it be illegal? Is there some salary police that I don't know about?
It wouldn't be smart, because they wouldn't be competitive and won't get the best employees but I'm curious how you think this could be illegal?
Anonymous
08/04/21 at 10:28PM UTC
Sorry the job search has been so frustrating for you and so many others. These recruitment techniques are ridiculous.
That being said, I wonder if it's possible that you're sometimes passed over for making a minor spelling mistake. In no way do I mean to be petty or insult you, as I make mistakes myself. However, I thought it important to point out that "alot" is not a word, just like "alittle" is not a word. In the sense you are using it, you should write it as "a lot." There is a word "allot," which means to allocate-- we will allot a certain amount of money for this purpose.
Best wishes in finding a well-paid position that fits your skill set.
Anonymous
08/06/21 at 1:32PM UTC
i’m an internal recruiter and the companies I’ve worked for reach out directly for a phone screen.
the hangup comes internally with the hiring managers schedules and other red tape, it’s painful and it’s frustrating
when I talk to a candidate I will tell them check back with me in two weeks if you haven’t heard but if you’re moving forward prior then you will hear from me but just because you haven’t heard for me doesn’t mean that it’s moved to next steps and you’re out .
it’s the best I can do because when you ask for a timeframe as soon as you receive the open position you do not necessarily get one from the managers and if you do it changes as a whole it can be very frustrating on the Recruiting And and it’s not our fault in many cases.
my recent favorite is trying to schedule candidates with the hiring managers for phone interviews, which is the first step after my phone screen.
I was told by all of them their calendars were up-to-date, when I went to their calendars and I saw Out of office four weeks blocked off I had asked in advance if any of them were going on vacation, they all said no when I went back to the manager and said you have a whole week blocked off are you on vacation she said work around my calendar whatever it says there’s !!!!!!
an example right there. The other manager as well didn’t have vacation on her calendar so I scheduled a call to be told that she’s on vacation
It’s painful and I’m thinking it’s time for me to get out of the business because I don’t have patience for this anymore it’s wrong there’s no candidate care and it makes me pretty angry.
I also hate the indication that it’s always the recruiter in some cases staffing agency recruiters do ghost you they only care about getting your résumé to their client the internal companies I’ve worked for disposition you in most cases and also reach out to you so I don’t like the idea that we all have a reputation of just ghosting and being collectively and un caring
