Am I overreacting?

Anonymous

November 22,2022 at 4:21PM UTC

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Am I overreacting?

I started a new job several months ago as a Marketing Manager of an IT company. There is a business trip planned for April 2023 that is solely focused on marketing for our type of industry. Both my boss and the owner of the company are going (both male). They mentioned today that they were going to ask me to go but that they both talked about it and decided not to since I have kids and they didn't think I could go. Mind you, this only came up because someone in a meeting that will be presenting at the conference asked if we would all be there and they said no, that I wouldn't be attending and stated the reason I said above. I actually feel a little hurt that they didn't include me and a little angry that they assumed I couldn't make it and then mentioned the reasoning in a conference call with our marketing partners. Am I overreacting?? Should I be grateful that they are taking into consideration that I have children? I just wanted to get some other ladies opinions. Thanks so much!

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KarenNovember 22,2022 at 4:35PM UTC
While I suspect they think they were being thoughtful, it was inappropriate (and paternalistic) to leave you out of this conversation. Try to let go of the anger first, then sit down with them -- probably individually -- and explain that while you understand their intentions may have been good, you would prefer to be given the option of attending events like these and would at least like to be included in the conversation. If you want to go to this particular trip, say so! There may be things like budget issues at play that make it prohibitive for them, but there is no harm in asking for what you want so long as you do it respectfully.
Tomilyn RichardsNovember 22,2022 at 4:55PM UTC
Highly inapprorpiate and in this day and age it is quite frankly ridiculous.
Barb HansenNovember 22,2022 at 4:56PM UTC
I don't think you are overreacting at all. I would be angry in your position.
Two men made a decision about your ability to do your work without you in the room - that's not right.
Then they decided to tell you their decision in a public forum - again, not right.
They would not have made the same decision if you were a man with children at home - this is how we know what they did was not right.
This is what I would do if I were in a similar situation:
I would schedule a meeting with my boss (or chat with him at my next one-on-one) to discuss my availability to travel and to confirm that I am available to travel for business reasons. I would mention that I have children at home but, as with the fathers in the company, I am able to manage both my family and work responsibilities.
Anne KrookNovember 22,2022 at 6:09PM UTC
Highly inappropriate not to ask you if you could travel. Start looking for another job, and when you get it, you can tell them why you are leaving, if you want to. This lack of respect is, unfortunately, unlikely to improve.
Carissa SchneiderNovember 22,2022 at 6:10PM UTC
They're making assumptions on your behalf - they most likely think they're being thoughtful but it's discrimination..."oh I didn't give you that big client because I know you just had a baby and are probably reallllyyyy tired." Do they not have children? It seems the 'burden' of children never falls on the man.
Terri ClarkNovember 22,2022 at 7:17PM UTC
Sadly, even if the travel issue is resolved you will likely experience discrimination in other ways from these gentlemen. They don't even realize they are doing it. It's your choice on whether you choose to stay and attempt to enlighten them over time or move on. I have worked in IT over 20 years and still experience this. I believe it's still fairly common in many male dominated industries.
AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 7:25PM UTC
What I would ask is did they make the same assumptions regarding the male staffers at your level? Odd but given their gender bias I guess you would most likely be expected to take care of any admin tasks on the trip so it might be a blessing in disguise
KBinCONovember 23,2022 at 12:40AM UTC
As an HR professional - Yikes! In my opinion, this is a red flag. Squeeze out as much as you can from this role. And, document everything (ideas, achievements, perf reviews, productivity.) Keep your eyes open (confidentially) for other opportunities. And, tell them you want to go. See if they say "no" directly to you. The trip is 5 months away - no reason you can't be added.
AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:12AM UTC
That is discrimination! You are not overreacting. Document everything, it is likely you will see more of the same in the future.
Dawn S. CrossNovember 23,2022 at 1:58PM UTC
Have a frank conversation with them, particularly since you are the Marketing Manager. It could be that they just “assumed”, but didn’t think to ask. Go to the meeting with what you will bring to the table as Marketing Manager and remind them this is why they hired you.
if they still won’t budge, it is more of a “good old boy” type of position and maybe you should look elsewhere.
Jennifer TaylorNovember 23,2022 at 2:14PM UTC
Oh hell no. Schedule a meeting with both of them and let them know that
1. You should always be included in marketing presentations, meetings and travel. That is what you were hired for.
2. Whether or not you have children or a family should never be a factor in whether or not you travel for business. Ask them point blank if they would say such a thing about a male marketing manager.
Then get your resume in order. If this is how casual they are about misogyny, you may not want to work there.
Paulla Fetzek, MSEdNovember 23,2022 at 2:48PM UTC
I completely understand you have hurt feelings. I don't think you're overreacting, nor do I blame you at all for how you feel.
However, I'm not going to say I think their intensions/actions were bad. They could've been, sure. It's also quite possible they were trying to be thoughtful. According to a 2020 Gallup poll, it isn't sexist to think a woman has home duties. While there is a shift, women remain the primary handlers - 62% of the time!
If you feel comfortable and are able, I would talk to them and and ask why assumed you couldn't go without running it by you first.
AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 3:07PM UTC
Their actions are discriminatory at the very least. Whether or not you have children is actually none of their business, and certainly not up to them to decide whether that would be a hardship for you in this or any other job situation. This behavior is also exclusionary in that you are being excluded from a function of your job because you have children, which borders on violation of the Federal employment laws.
ReachingGoalsNovember 23,2022 at 3:12PM UTC
I get the hurt feelings; I would have them too. If this is something you can go to, then I would sit down with one or both of them and tell them that while you appreciate them taking your family into consideration, your work is also important to you, you have family support and can easily participate in out-of-town events. As long as that is true.
Keep in mind that they may have used kids as an excuse because they were uncomfortable traveling with a woman.
Looking for a changeNovember 23,2022 at 3:25PM UTC
Are you the only female not invited? I would say you should be included and if you can’t go you will let them know. You don’t want this to be a pattern
AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 4:05PM UTC
No, you are not overreacting. I was so mad for you I felt my hair go red. Unless in your interview or management 1-1s you specifically stated that you were taking this position for work life balance with your family and kids, this is completely inappropriate. You should be given a choice.
You have to speak to them that you feel this is a necessary aspect of your job and development, regardless if you have kids. You are the marketing manager, you should be visible at a marketing conference. Eventually, you should be speaking at these. If they poo poo this, then they do not care about your career development. Be polite and empathetic, ask what they need to see from you to ensure you can participate in this or at the very least will not be excluded from future opportunities.
If my cynical side had to guess, there’s also going to be a presentation involved or a position in a panel by someone in your company to fill on your subject of expertise. If so, they are pushing you to the side. I’ve seen this done and had it done to me over my career for a couple of reasons. I have seen managers hide their expert staff with difficult to hire specialties when they lead from fear (flight risk) and not true servant leadership. A boss’ job is not just to get the work but to build her staff for the next steps or levels in their careers. You mentioned you have been there a few months; how long did the position go unfilled? They may consider you a flight risk. I have seen a manager that was angling for his own promotion shove his industry credible expert to the background in their very industry user group so he could make a deal. The expert was the one in the background who put the details together and made certain the deal was viable. I’ve seen experts in a field work on presentations for a topic specific session (not a keynote) for their boss to present with them uncredited in attendance to answer questions.
AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 7:08PM UTC
Honestly, I'd be pissed. And I'd voice the frustration and unfairness with you. That they made this decision on your behalf without even talking to you and getting your thoughts is BS. Way to make assumptions, guys.
That said, temper your response before talking to them. But be firm in that this was not appropriate nor fair for you.
Rosa GoesNovember 24,2022 at 4:40AM UTC
As others mentioned, you are not overreacting. I would have a conversation with them or just your boss. You can say something like 'I just wanted clear up about the conference, it's not a problem for me to go, I would be thrilled to be part of it and helpful since I'm marketing manager' If they press about your kids, keep it simple 'I can make arrangements' Hope it all works out, good luck!
AnonymousNovember 24,2022 at 10:03AM UTC
You are not overreacting, I will be pissed off if I were in your shoes. I would suggest you to set a meeting with them ASAP and clarify everything before it's too late. in the meantime, try to get out of this toxic place. have a break, work on your CV and start searching for a new job. - stay strong <3
Donna BrookerNovember 24,2022 at 1:28PM UTC
Sorry to hear about this experience. If this is an isolated incident and you are happy working with these leaders day to day, my advice would be to assume positive intent for now. It could be they need some help with inclusivity, and they may have an unconscious bias based on other situations they are familiar with. This does not excuse it, but hopefully, it will help you approach resolution with positivity. I would seek a conversation with them, let them know what you have heard and give them the opportunity to respond. Then explain your perspective and ask that for this situation, and in future they give you responsibility for decisions about your own personal logistics in the same way they would for a man with children.
Good luck, hope it helps and that you get a positive outcome.
Melissa NobileNovember 24,2022 at 1:33PM UTC
Meet with them and explain that you would have liked the opportunity to say Yes or No yourself. See what happens. They might backpedal and apologize. You won’t know until you speak with them.
AnonymousNovember 24,2022 at 1:36PM UTC
I’d assume positive intent. In wanting to show support for your family they over-rotated to making decisions on your behalf. I truly appreciate their concern for your work-life balance but would speak with them and would explain that I would like to have the opportunity to choose the activities that are most relevant to success in my role at (X) company.
it also depends on how valuable the event is. Sometimes conferences are fluff. In my current role, I would not go except to have 1:1 time with the bosses.
Martha MarinNovember 24,2022 at 1:37PM UTC
I agree with other commenters, you are not overreacting and need to discuss this with your leaders. I would schedule a meeting and talk to them. Explain how your attendance would be advantageous to the company (something they should already know, but nonetheless), then explain that just as they travel while being parents (assuming they are), you are equally equipped to travel as a parent.
This will put things into perspective for them, and hopefully they will realize their bias.
If they still don’t take you, you may meed to ask if there are other reasons why they would not tale you. It seems like you’re the #1 person who should be attending this event.
BeaBoss105337November 24,2022 at 1:43PM UTC
Agree, that I too would be angry about their exclusion based on their opinion. To me....there is a shade of discrimination and will likely happen again.
You should voice your concerns/opinion but keep in mind THEY made a decision that was yours to make and could impact your advancement within this company.
On the flip side.....perhaps they don't want you witnessing anything that could negatively impact the company's image.
Good luck!
AnonymousNovember 24,2022 at 1:51PM UTC
It depends on whether you want to travel for work or not. And, what kind of restrictions you may want to set. That determines how you can move forward. There would be nothing wrong about speaking to both, and say, perhaps:
"I'd love to be able to be part of the business travel team, and thanks for wondering if it's fair to ask me. I can easily be gone one week a month, and often need a week to find a sitter".
Mara Jevera FulmerNovember 24,2022 at 2:00PM UTC
If you were male, they would not have excluded you. It IS discrimination based on gender and family and, unless you had specifically stated your own restrictions ahead of time, they need to offer you the opportunity to say yes or no.
Assume they did not have bad intent, but it’s time to have a friendly but firm conversation about this.
Audrey KirschNovember 24,2022 at 2:33PM UTC
Don’t be hurt, be mad. They excluded you on purpose. You having children was an easy justification not a thoughtful consideration. If you are available to travel, let them know. Then you will see if they really want to include you or have some other excuse of why you aren’t invited.
Michelle S.November 24,2022 at 4:52PM UTC
That’s mature. Be angry! I agree with your suggestion to let them know that you’d like to go and are available to travel to see what they say. But what does mad do?
Maggie StoneNovember 24,2022 at 2:34PM UTC
I don’t blame you for being angry. They made an unfair assumption and cut you out of a huge opportunity. I would try to turn this into a positive by being proactive and ask if there is still an opportunity to participate.
Michelle S.November 24,2022 at 4:51PM UTC
I’m really grateful for your response because it is literally one of the few professional, emotionally mature responses available. Some of the responses on this platform lately, and this post, have reminded me how much emotional intelligence and maturity have degraded in society as of late.. It’s terrifying.
Sonia La RottaNovember 24,2022 at 2:39PM UTC
I had a similar situation once and told my husband to vent my frustration, he simply mentioned that they probably wanted to go alone to have some 'guys´time, and that i didnt really fit in that plan.... i didnt have children at the time, so that was never mentioned.
Michelle S.November 24,2022 at 4:50PM UTC
Hi! That is definitely a perspective I never imagined. But what kills me is that if they want to have a little boys time on company time and a professional company trip, then they could go out to dinner or whatever by themselves, but it has nothing to do with a female professional going. I appreciate the perspective, but if that’s the case, I think I’d even be more irritated.
AnonymousNovember 24,2022 at 4:34PM UTC
Do you like the job and the pay? Then deal with it. If not, file an EEOC claim for discrimination based on sex, and family status. You will probably be fired for some other reason.
In the end, they are paying for their own vacation and didn't include you. It probably has nothing to do with your status as a parent.
Michelle S.November 24,2022 at 4:48PM UTC
Wow! You realize there is 1 million options in between the two polar opposite suggestions you gave, right?
Betse McGuireNovember 24,2022 at 4:52PM UTC
On the surface, it might seem considerate of them to take your family into account when they made this decision, and they may genuinely think they were doing something positive, but they definitely should have included you in that discussion instead of making the assumption. If you are comfortable addressing it, I'd say you should tell them you'd like the opportunity to be part of the decision next time something like that comes up. I would be careful how you express the hurt/anger part (that could make them defensive or dismissive of your request) and just stick to something like "I'd like to be able to add my input, next time. This would have been a good opportunity for me and I might have been able to juggle my family responsibilities to make it work."
Communication CoachNovember 24,2022 at 4:59PM UTC
Do the men that are going have children? Discrimination, pure and simple!! The company needs to be updated in legalities of EEOC LAW. As already suggested, I would call the EEOC to find exact law.. You could file a complaint, but, if you like the job, I would see if you could straighten this out first. Actually, I don't think you even are required to give any information about your family - if you are married or if you have children. Your position should automatically be included!! It is quite distrurbing to hear this in 2022! O
Kathleen Norton-SchockNovember 24,2022 at 5:22PM UTC
I would ask for a quick conversation with the owner. Prior to that conversation, I would "do my homework" and prepare a short, succinct, preso on what I would learn; what I would be able to do better because I attended; and the ROI (return on investment) to their company of their paying for me to attend. I would ignore the issue of my children ---- it is none of their business. I would presume you can handle getting the children taken care of, while you are away. This is 2022, not prehistoric times. Help them move into the new reality of the workforce.
Kim PfeifferNovember 24,2022 at 5:54PM UTC
Um. You are the marketing manager and this is a marketing conference. Do these two men do any marketing for the company. I’ve had a few traveling jobs, and I noticed they liked to send male teams together and female teams together. I don’t know why. Maybe because that’s how it was always done or maybe to avoid any possible legal issues regarding harassment. But that could be why they don’t want a woman traveling with two men. But this is bull if those two men do zero marketing.
Hael SnillumNovember 24,2022 at 6:04PM UTC
I wouldn’t have liked it either with them making assumptions without speaking with me about it first. I would reiterate that I’m able to travel,
Arlene Frances Gottardo (Bryak)November 24,2022 at 6:04PM UTC
Be grateful they considered your family situation. You can always mention to them that although you do appreciate the consideration, please ask me next time ….you’d be happy to go & finding child care wiuld not be a problem?
Selah DavisonNovember 24,2022 at 6:16PM UTC
Here is a list of articles for you to read about gender inequality and discrimination against women with children. The employee does not have the right to make decision on what workers should do with their children or whether parents should go to a conference or not because they have children
https://source.wustl.edu/2021/07/mothers-may-face-increased-workplace-discrimination-post-pandemic-research-warns/
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/discrimination-against-working-mothers-must-end
https://theeverymom.com/workplace-discrimination-what-moms-need-to-know/
Selah DavisonNovember 24,2022 at 6:09PM UTC
It is a form of discrimination against women who have children. It sounds like you work in an environment that promotes masculinity and mansplaining
IntentionGirl299847November 24,2022 at 6:56PM UTC
Per the USA federal government they are not allowed in an interview to ask if you have children. By the same token a company cannot use your having chidden as a reason for no promotions, raises, travel, etc. unless you state this is the reason you cannot perform your jo b. Discrimination plain and simple.
Focused721350November 24,2022 at 7:43PM UTC
Good Morning,
I think it was thoughtful. But! Out of respect and not sounding to chauvinistic they should of talked to you and gave you an option if you wanted to attend. Just in case you had to make preparations for your child/children. I wouldn't make a BIG TO DO on it! But! Maybe! In future trips they can be more open in a conversation on it.
Thank you and God Bless, Ms. T ;)
Madeline M.November 24,2022 at 9:21PM UTC
NO!!! That’s wrong. They don’t make your schedule and have no idea what kind of support system you have for the home front. They also hid it from you. This is your JOB and you should be there. This is writing on the wall the don’t respect you and it will keep happening.
Lori CasoNovember 24,2022 at 10:04PM UTC
Would you have been able to go?
if so, you should explain that to them.
If attending would be a hardship then I would say nothing.
Travel is a double- edged sword for working mothers. If you have a spouse or partner or family member who can easily step in and cover - great! You don’t want to say “yes” to traveling and then need to bow out because you couldn’t get coverage. ( Men wouldn’t get away with that either.)
Dawn S. CrossNovember 24,2022 at 10:37PM UTC
While I understand what others are saying, is jumping to conclusions and filing suit against a company you just started working for the right thing to do? Is it possible that they just didn’t think about it and went with gut reaction? Could a prior experience be clouding the judgement? Sitting down and having a discussion with them about why you were hired and that you are fully prepared to travel for events like this is prudent. It could be they just need a reminder and that they should not assume before asking.
Mandy FoxNovember 24,2022 at 11:36PM UTC
This is discrimination plain and simple. I had the same exact situation happen to me by a former manager. The entire team was traveling across country for a project kickoff and he told the team I wouldn't be joining as I had kids. When I found out, as he didn't even tell me, I walked tight up to him and asked why I was being left back. He told me he thought it would be better for my kids to have their Mom around than to travel for a work trip. I let him know that as their Mom I am the ONLY one to make that decision. I then let him know that I will be attending the trip.
AnonymousNovember 27,2022 at 2:33AM UTC
How did this work out after you confronted this boss? Were there any repercussions? I had a former boss where I would have had direct repercussions if I did that.
Mandy FoxNovember 28,2022 at 12:46AM UTC
This particular boss was vindictive, so yes there were repercussions. He tried to remove me from projects, but was unsuccessful as the PMs requested me to work on the projects by name. I stood up for myself many times with similar outcomes but since I've worked in IT for a long time, with many different bad bosses, I have gained a lot of patience. I was able to wait him out and he was eventually fired.
Kristie WhiteNovember 25,2022 at 4:49PM UTC
So what other sexist misogynistic decisions are they making for you? What campaigns you can handle? How much money you make since you aren’t the head of the family? Whether to invite to you to strategic meetings after hours? Whether you can handle a promotion since it would be more “pressure and stress” on your poor little woman’s head? This is a power play and a way of minimalizing you by making it about something other than the work. It reduces your ability to compete. Fix it and reclaim your power.
Crystal HowellNovember 25,2022 at 7:23PM UTC
No, they want it to be a boys trip!! Your reply should have been, or can be I can attend as my kids are not an issue, haven't you heard of babysitters?
If they still refuse, take pto and go, meet your next boss at a bigger company.
That statement is a HR nightmare, you should follow up.
AnonymousNovember 26,2022 at 2:00AM UTC
62 year old white man here (also gay) and I’m going WTF?
To assume that to being with was wrong. They could have discreetly asked you first if you would be down for this trip.
Then you say “I’m there” or “No, as you know I have kids and a full life outside of them and here so I’d rather not travel and spend any more time with you. Thank you kindly for understanding
Patricia ManroeNovember 26,2022 at 4:23AM UTC
I believe they should have asked you too. That was inconsiderate of them to assume. You know the saying about "assume".
Maegan, Nike Sales Rep & Career CoachNovember 27,2022 at 12:41AM UTC
that is actually an HR violation of discrimination, I would have a conversation with them and help them see the importance of opportunities like this - or you can do directly to HR.
Liz MilneNovember 27,2022 at 5:29PM UTC
I would have it out with them - calmly and civilly, but make it clear that being a woman and a mother is not any kind of handicap. If it was discussed when you were hired, remind them that you have always expected to have to travel for your job and that you are more than willing to do so. That way, maybe next time, you will be included from the off.
Lorraine GregorowiczNovember 27,2022 at 8:54PM UTC
Many times we create the conversation in our head and neglect to confront it head on--then the effects begin to snowball and our anger and resentment grow to an unhealthy effect. This is a new job, so setting the tone now and being clear at the onset would help you set the tone for yourself in this new role.Maybe if you expressed your interest in attending and let them know where you stand, you can open the door for an open discussion about it. If it doesn't change the outcome for this particular trip--you've still made your position on travel clear and would expect to be included from here on? And if it continues, then you can quietly decide your next steps and where your future might lie.
AnonymousNovember 28,2022 at 5:04PM UTC
This is gender discrimination. Whether or not you have kids shouldn't factor in to their decision. Do the men who are attending also have kids? Did this affect their decision to let them go? They should have given you the same consideration as everyone else, regardless of your situation, and been accepting if you decide not to go for personal reasons.
G C HesseDecember 6,2022 at 6:09PM UTC
And this is precisely what happens when you go the kiddie route. I would bet you have photos on the credenza and desk, screen savers and they are always somehow in your conversations.
The one thing I learned early is to keep homelife at home. I never in my career had any personal photos on display and I always kept up with sports etc. You have to learn how to network.