I’ve been at my current company for almost 2 years as a middle market p&c/e&o/cyber underwriter, now I’m looking for a change.

Anonymous

December 27,2023 at 5:23PM UTC

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I’ve been at my current company for almost 2 years as a middle market p&c/e&o/cyber underwriter, now I’m looking for a change.

I make 2 years april ‘24. I was originally hired as p&c only in April 2022, but by September, my manager asked me to hop on a “special project” which would include me learning their e&o/cyber product and underwriting for that line as well. I agreed as I thought it would help with development knowing more lines and in turn get me promoted/eligible for new roles quicker. March 23 I had my first performance review and received a ‘meeting expectations’ that came with a 3% raise. By summer 23 when our mid year came around, my responsibilities and workload increased significantly since hopping on the extra project so I asked for a compensation review during my mid year to reflect the extra (very time consuming) work I was doing. I was denied and told they don’t give out raises during a mid year review and to wait until my next performance review in March ‘24. My manager advised I will likely get an ‘exceeding expectations’ due to the extra work which would result in a bigger raise. I feel taken advantage of because if that was the case I should’ve gotten an exceeding expectations for my first performance review as I was already doing all the extra work for 7 months at that point. I’m starting to feel some resentment being here and having a much bigger workload then my counterparts while still having the same pay. I have to log on an extra hour+ earlier to keep up with my responsibilities almost every day, and I’m still falling behind our expected timeline for review of renewals. I’ve been applying for other positions (both internal and external) since September. Been passed on 2 internal positions (1 I am still being considered for), interviewed for 2 external and ended up being passed on those.. I loved this job in the beginning but regret taking on the extra project, especially not knowing how much extra work it quickly became. While I was managing very well in the beginning, the past few months have become extremely stressful for me. Feeling stuck and pretty unappreciated and just looking for advice if anyone has dealt with something like this. This is only my 2nd full time position since graduating college and I definitely think I messed up taking on the extra responsibility without asking for a raise at the very beginning. I didn’t know what I was getting myself into.

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AnonymousDecember 27,2023 at 6:37PM UTC
Welcome to the real world of work. This happens at every company, every single day, to nearly everyone I've known. Here are some ideas to help you decide how to deal with the situation:
1) Projects, by their very nature, are supposed to be time-limited. They do not go on and on, and if they do, there is usually a major flaw in the management of the project. Look for another project to join, and use your new skills there.
2) No one gets a raise or promotion because they do some extra work. You can, however, apply for a different position in the company, if you want to stay.
3) You are in charge of your brand. Reposition yourself to be taken seriously - if you feel you're being taken advantage of, talk to a career counselor (your college or university probably offers such services at little or no cost) to figure out what you can do differently.
Good luck!
AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 1:31PM UTC
I think it is also important to look at your company culture. Take note of what the corporate standards are saying and pushing. Do they encourage you to speak with your supervising manager about concerns, especially those surround deadlines and due dates, do they worry about burnout and offer way to help manage that, etc?
My company encourages us to have that open, honest communication with our supervisors. If I’m feeling over burdened, deadlines are at risk, or under valued I speak up.
If you decide to have that conversation though I would recommend reframing it from a complaint to a way to improve. It makes it look better, especially at those performance reviews. You can take the concerns over burdens and timelines and frame it as “I know I volunteered to help with Project X, and while it has been a enxcellent learning opportunity for me, I’m starting to struggle the balance of additional work load with my original responsibilities. I’m currently doing A, B, & C to help keep that balance and goals on track. However, I’m still concerned that I may not make deadlines 1, 2, or 3. Is there anything you could recommend that might help me stay on track?”
AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 5:40PM UTC
Thanks for the tip on reframing! Appreciate all the advice. I think I have the best manager out of the 4 teams total. But I’m afraid sitting her down and letting her know I’m feeling overwhelmed and need help prioritizing will be held against me once it comes time for my next performance review.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:12PM UTC
Very good points, but speaking from experience companies ARE taking advantage as much as they can and as they change job descriptions (im not talking added duties as required as they say on their hiring job descriptions) that the entire role changes pretty quickly with no discussion- just dictated that is what you will now be doing - that becomes VERY discouraging for any employee
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:10PM UTC
Agreed. My job role has changed by 180 and I think they knew that would be the case but didn’t communicate that with me properly, so it was easy to feel slighted in this situation.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:08PM UTC
Thank you for your input! This went from being advertised as a side project to entirely changing my job duties and daily responsibilities. I don’t think expecting a raise or promotion is asking for too much when I’m doing 2 positions for one positions pay. I think this situation has made me rethink jumping to take on more work, especially without having clear expectations from the very beginning on duration, how much work it would be (# of extra accounts, etc) this has definitely been a learning experience and I have reached out to a few professional mentors to help me work through this.
AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 6:01PM UTC
I think you are asking for a reward for your work too quickly. Most companies only give out raises once a year (this is not unusual). Just like you had to work hard for 4 years to get your degree, you have to put in the extra work for a while to get a raise or promotion--especially a promotion.
I think that you are looking at this a little wrong. Do you actually like the work you are doing? If so, taking on more work (not to the point of burnout) can be a good thing. Look at it as more things to put on your resume for future roles. I will say be careful on what you take on. Is it just more of what you already do? Stay clear. Is it a project where you will have to learn and figure out new things? Jump on it! I constantly take on new projects and new things. 1st, it keeps my brain from being bored. 2nd because I have taken on higher level things in my previous role, I was able to land a much better role at my current company than my old title should have let me take (I knew at my previous company there was no room for advancement). Look at the role higher to you and those responsibilities. Are there any that you can take on? You may or may not get a raise in March (odds are it sounds like you will), but did you get any valuable experience that will make you better in your next role?
If you do not like the work that you do at all, it is time to get out. I would be careful about how many internal roles you apply for. It is not a good look if you keep applying to a lot of open roles--makes you seem desperate to get out of your department. Look at the departments and roles in your company. Is there a department you especially want to join? Make small talk with the team to give yourself an in. Talk to the hiring manager of that department and express your interest (before they even post a role). I once had a role created for me because of my many side chats with a manager.
Good luck to you with whatever you decide!
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:01PM UTC
Thank you for your input! I like the underwriting for e&o/cyber more than p&c (which is what I was originally hired for) the e&o/cyber is much more time consuming as it takes a full day to review just one account. I can review 2 accounts in a day on the p&c side. Its just impossible to juggle both responsibilities in 8 hours for two separate positions. I also have more accounts than everyone else on top of that. I’ve done the small talk, coffee, lunches, regular check ins with other teams for roles I’ve applied for and was still passed on. I’ve only applied for 3 at this point, but I’m no longer applying only internally, I’ve started applying for external positions again this month. Hoping to land a better fit for the e&o by 2nd quarter next year.
AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 6:32PM UTC
Geez, please reset your expectations. Your career is a marathon not a sprint, also you won't always get money just because you went above and beyond. Think long and hard about what you want most out of work. Content that is stimulating? Collaboration with others? Learning opportunities and growth? Career advancement? Cash? If cash is at the top of your list go into sales, sales people are coin operated and get rewarded for making sales, ka-ching! If it is the opportunity to advance find a large enough company with the structure internally to grow you and find a mentor within to help you get there or ask your manager to help you by stretching you past what you know now. Finding a new job is only going to take your negative baggage with you to the next place and won't help you to get where you want to be. Take the time to really rethink and if you need to sit down with your manager and let them know you are feeling de-motivated do so. Don't compare yourself to others though that will backfire because the manager I assure you is comparing you to the job. Also note that they are likely looking at attitude too. Time to adjust that and accept that you are still a newbie. Your behavior if you don't nip it now will serve to sabotage you and not anyone else.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 1:41PM UTC
I cannot disagree with this more. Wow.
I was in the OP's exact position. I got asked to take on extra duties. My job duties shifted. I did more work for the same amount of pay and got a tiny raise in the middle of it (just the standard cost of living advance).
I felt stressed and demotivated and frustrated that my workplace didn't seem to even SEE how much more work they had heaped on me without any change in title or compensation. I fought tooth and tail, as did my manager, to finally get a raise and a new job title. I got a 10% raise (much higher than the 2% COL) one last year after my review. It took about a year and a half to get it and I'm happy I fought for what was proper compensation for the added duties.
More duties should come with proper compensation. Period. It's not "negative baggage" to expect to be compensated if you're doing more in your job,
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:55PM UTC
Thank you for your input. It’s sad to see how many people this has happened to in this thread. I’m so happy that you finally got what you needed and it gives me a little hope that maybe my day will come too! I think they downplayed the extra responsibility so they didn’t have to hire someone to fill that role. They threw it at me as a “learning experience”. Now that I’ve been doing it it’s more work and 5x more time consuming than what I was originally hired for. I don’t think I’m asking for a lot! I’m grateful to still have a job when a lot of people don’t and still put in 150% every day.
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 7:24PM UTC
You are not asking for too much at all. It's one thing to ask you to take on a short-term project. But once it becomes part of your job, then they need to stop taking advantage of you and properly compensate you for the job.
I'm not sure how your situation is with your manager...but I expressed my issues to my direct manager and he went to bat for me, which ultimately got me the raise and new job title.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:51PM UTC
Thank you for your input. I don’t think it’s asking for too much to have a bigger raise when I’m doing 2 peoples jobs and getting paid for one. This went from a project to literally gaining the responsibilities of another line of specialized underwriting (which makes more money in the industry than the lines I was hired for). I don’t take baggage moving jobs either. My first job out of school was absolutely horrible and I did leave due to a bad manager and no work life balance working 60+ hours a week. I came to this company for a fresh start and excelled quickly, learned quickly, and despite having all these extra responsibilities on my plate I’m still a resource to help new people coming in (even those not on my team) on a weekly basis. It’s not just the hybrid role that’s stressful, but I’m also expected to be a “trainer” because I know what I’m doing. I’ve never had a bad attitude at work despite feeling unappreciated the past few months. My coworkers and superiors all speak very highly of me. I’m at a place where I don’t want compliments or a pizza lunch, I want to be fairly compensated.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 1:20PM UTC
I would advise you to not listen to other comments. Your situation feels like you are being taken advantage of. You will accept a hike at end year review and will get it - it will be pennies. You can't show your resume to bank and ask for money to survive.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:43PM UTC
Thank you for your feedback. I know it’s quite early for me professionally but I am starting to realize it’s been a lot of red flags and if they don’t think I’m worth attempting to keep, then I will look elsewhere. I do know “job hopping” will guarantee me more money in the long run, but I wanted to communicate what I needed before trying to jump ship. My first job was a disaster and that’s what I did then… but this being my second job I wanted to stay at least 2 years. I think I’ve done all I can and communicated the best way I know how… I do like my manager and my team but it’s not worth the extra stress and time I’ve been putting in every single day to receive nothing back besides a silly pizza lunch.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:06PM UTC
I feel you. About 4 years ago, I sort of volunteered / sort of voluntold on a project that was only supposed to last 2 years. I’m still doing it. The workload has increased and I feel unappreciated.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:38PM UTC
This is exactly what seems to be happening to me… I’m sorry you’re also dealing with this. I’d also suggest bringing this up if you have a performance review coming up. We deserve more than average for doing more than average. The least you can do is bring it up, if they say no like they did to me you may want to also rethink staying there. Employers don’t realize how easy is actually is to keep good employees. High turnover is a major problem for my position specifically. I’ve seen so many people leave shortly after training. It’s disappointing they can’t recognize what they’re doing wrong. Wish you the best of luck! Keep your eye out for other roles.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:08PM UTC
Companies are doing this all over, the parts about being passed up for internal roles for which you were well qualified and had applied, & expecting (dumping) additional tasks for which ZERO compensation is made. Oh they may say they'll give it to you when the time comes but then suddenly that can change. All that has happened to me & my confidence has declined significantly. I am sorry to be so negative but I have been where you are & im there again. I am one of the best employees thorough & detail oriented but management likes the BSers & I have no respect or loyalty for those companies. Good luck to you
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:33PM UTC
That’s what I’m afraid of, wish my next performance review is March, I’m worried framing a convo with my manager about needed some additional help will be used against me when it comes time for my review. I would love the max possible raise (my company does 10% max split between a raise and a bonus). I’m shifting my focus to applying externally once the new year comes. I don’t want to have hope and wait around for the review and still get lowballed after all this time.its unfortunate these companies don’t show more appreciation for their employees. I appreciate your input and hope you come across a better opportunity! don’t let them take away your confidence. If there’s 1 thing I hold on to it’s that I’m still giving it my all every day despite feeling unappreciated.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:12PM UTC
Sounds like you need a promotion not an “exceeding expectations” that probably only comes with a 4% -5% raise anyway. Companies are cheap, some make you do a lot of work before finally promoting you into the role 2-3 years later. It was a good thing that you stood up for yourself and told them you want more, you did all you could. If the company wanted, they would have given that mid year salary bump. In todays work place, you need to switch every 2-3 years for that 15-20% raise or else you will be earning less than the market value of your role every subsequent year. Good luck on finding a new role!
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:31PM UTC
Thank you for your feedback, and yes, the next step up (promotion) is another underwriting position (more authority) and someone who was hired after me got promoted into that position. Hard to not take it personal when I’m being passed up for so many roles and giving 150% every day. I wish you luck as well! Hopefully the new year brings a lot of new roles out.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:16PM UTC
I think your perspective is off
1- meeting expectations is not a negative review
2- it sounds to me that your boss was trying to set you up to get an exceeds in the next year and help push you to grow.
3-Once you’ve mastered your role it is expected to learn more to get you to the next level. That = meetings expectations of current role
4-Taking on more and learning more and mastering it (outside your role) = exceeding expectations of your current role.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:42PM UTC
thank you for your feedback. I don’t think meeting expectations was negative at all, but looking back I think I deserved an exceeded as I was in the best position workload wise back then and ahead in my book. As it was my first review there I didn’t want to push it but looking back I wish I did. I also do think I’ve mastered both roles in this short time as I’m now also expected to help all the new people coming in on a weekly basis even though the company hired a trainer for that very reason. I wear many different hats despite not mentioning a lot of it in my original post. I’ve even been told I’m better at explaining workflows than the actual trainer (this was actually quite disheartening after hearing it from more than 5 people). I am truly putting my all into this job and really trying to embody the professional I aspire to be. I think I’m just being pulled in a lot of different directions and with my responsibilities changing constantly since I’ve been hired, I’m just getting to the point where it’s becoming a struggle to manage everything.
Donna KusnierczykDecember 31,2023 at 11:08PM UTC
Rewarding hard work with double the workload while being paid the same as those who don't have the extra work isn't a privilege, it's exploitation. If that's the corporate culture leaving is the only option.
AnonymousJanuary 1,2024 at 8:05PM UTC
Thank you for your input, I agree, now that I’m in the thick of it I’m starting to feel taken advantage of. I am applying externally at this time
MelanieDecember 29,2023 at 3:01PM UTC
A few things - if you are being open and frank about the workload, and they are not responding, then that is enough reason to start thinking about your exit plan.
You need real feedback. I think that sounds like the core issue here. As far as raises and promotions go, you have been there two years. Maybe I am old fashioned, but I have always put my head down and worked hard when starting a new job, and then expect a promotion (or something larger then cost of living raise) if I have earned it, around the 3 year mark. If at that time the job is going nowhere, I would consider switching jobs. I also look to see what other people in my industry have achieved, or accomplished that I have not yet. I work in your industry, but have always been in the broker or Risk Manager role not an underwriter, but still I think my experience is relevant. By nature, I always look for what more I can do to improve things in my work flow. I also started working on various professional degrees and designations in order to become more knowledgeable and stand out. For example, I got my CPCU designation, ARM designation, and a Masters in Risk & Insurance (while working full time). I have worked in this industry for 20 years now, and have increased my first salary 8x in that time. There have been ups and downs, and when I felt a job was not leading me where I wanted to be (and after careful consideration), I found a new one. The insurance industry is hurting for people right now - you should be in a good place as far as opportunities and leverage if you are open to the possibilities. I started out in Fine Art Insurance, then moved on through various industries such as Higher Education, Construction, and now Hospitality. Lots to think about - do you like being an underwriter? Do you like the company culture? Are there parts of your job you wish you had more of or less of? Then make your plan accordingly.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:29PM UTC
Thank you for your input! I think this has been most helpful coming from someone in the same industry! I have kept my head down this whole time (my direct manager has even offered me overtime multiple times despite being overtime exempt) because “I do my work to the best of my ability and keep my head down”. I love the e&o/cyber UW even though it’s much more time consuming. I’m pretty bored of the p&c underwriting. I think professional liability in general is more interesting and since it’s more specialized, it also pays more as I’m seeing while applying externally. For p&c I started in commercial middle market (mostly manufacturing business but some other industries scattered in there) but once I started with the e&o/cyber, they switched my book to tech business only. I actually am very passionate about that and am always researching market trends, claim trends, etc to better my underwriting there and that’s where I’m looking to transition to. I did apply for an open position for it that’s based in Chicago (I work in a different state currently) but I haven’t heard any update on it. I liked the culture in the beginning but I’m starting to notice a few things here and there that leave a slightly bad taste in my mouth. With all the changes and lack of communication on the company’s side, that’s why I’m now considering external positions.
MelanieJanuary 2,2024 at 7:31PM UTC
Looks like you may have found a niche in the E&O/cyber to work towards. That's a great start! If over time you do not like underwriting, you can move towards being a broker and/or Risk Manager for tech-related work. Also - recruiters in the insurance industry can be helpful and know about positions that you don't find. Good luck!
Kristie WhiteDecember 29,2023 at 3:09PM UTC
If this is only your 2nd full time position, I think you are still learning and gaining experience. Why should you be given a raise for new work you have no experience on? You were given a great opportunity to learn about a hot new field that will pays dividends for years to come. Another lesson you are learning is that professional positions don’t follow an hourly schedule. They are paid to handle a workload. Stop whining and think like a professional. Your review com s up in March, ask for double the percentage they offer you because you have built proficiency in two new lines of products. If 3% was meeting expectations, then exceeding should be 5%. So ask for 10%. Then negotiate down.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 3:19PM UTC
Thank you for your input. Although it has been a learning experience, I now have double the workload of my counterparts and we are being paid the same. As a professional my pay should reflect my workload like you stated above. I’m going on 2 years of multiple lines of underwriting experience and 3+ years in the insurance industry. 3% was my raise last year for meeting expectations but our offer letter states 10% max between a raise and promotion. I think I should be an exception since I’m doing two peoples jobs. I’m not whining either, I came here for advice from other professionals and I am still putting my best effort into my work every day.
AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 5:42PM UTC
I’m in the insurance industry… my suggestion to you is twofold. Use the knowledge you are gaining from these new tasks, they provide you with experience that can be added to your resume. Yeah working late does absolutely wear on a person… do your best to be fair to you…. The late hours so early in your career allow for the work experience and when to set boundaries. And I do think it’s time to test the waters. See who’s hiring and what the salary range is…that said 2 years experience is not much. You will be far more marketable when you have 4-5 years insurance experience under your belt. That’s not saying stay where you are…just an opinion. As far as the compensation goes….you will have to negotiate and be ready to have strong reasons why you should receive more than a 3% raise….its typical to be strung along with additional workload and a stagnant salary…. And don’t forget the total compensation package (health insurance) Have those numbers ready for your review discussion… Good luck!
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 2:30PM UTC
Thank you for the input. I have prepared to ask for a bigger raise than what they offer with my additional responsibilities listed. I knew I needed to be prepared as possible in case I’m still here for the next performance review.
Crystal HowellDecember 30,2023 at 12:23AM UTC
The Silver Lining, you have more experience to add to your resume from accepting the position. Lesson learned, this company probably knew from the beginning what they were setting you up for, Update the resume and find a company that will appreciate. During interviews, ask how long before you are considered for a raise? Or what and when are raises given? Dig deeper with the next company, do you promote within, how long do I have to be in the position before I am promoted, any testing involved? Find a company that has a pension plan still in place in addition to a 401k, dig deeper. No gossiping on the job, nose to the grind stone and absorb all you can, something better is out there.. Good Luck
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 2:32PM UTC
thank you for your input. I now also think they knew what I was getting into and didn’t properly communicate that to me. I definitely have questions like that on a note to use for future interviews. Despite feeling a bit overwhelmed recently I have learned a lot of the job and what to look for for my next company.
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 1:23PM UTC
I work in insurance and I’ve noticed if most companies or agencies can push the envelope and overload you with work without paying you for it, they will. I would keep looking for another position elsewhere and let them know that your current work load isn’t sustainable.
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 2:35PM UTC
Thank you for your input. Yup! My previous experience in insurance was extreme work overload coupled with a micromanager and I decided to leave sooner than later. While the current position started off manageable, lately it’s just been one thing after another added onto my plate. I’m the only one who can advocate for myself so I know I need to have that conversion sooner than later. I’ve applied for a few positions but hoping more becomes available in the new year.
Kristen DauerDecember 30,2023 at 7:20PM UTC
Yep! The fact that they have you doing workers comp and personal lines P&C is all I needed to hear. I bet you have to write new policies too- basically four roles in one. You should absolutely be paid for it. Don’t listen to some of these comments- looks like a lot of them are managers or hiring managers themselves.
AnonymousDecember 30,2023 at 2:33PM UTC
Property and casualty
AnonymousDecember 31,2023 at 1:27PM UTC
Start looking for another job without them knowing.
AnonymousDecember 31,2023 at 3:11PM UTC
Definitely applying for more once the new year starts.
Bradford McCormickDecember 31,2023 at 8:32PM UTC
Took on the extra work without asking for a raise? You sound oeverworked and stressed out. Would a little more take home in the paycheck make up for a stressed out life? One morning you may not be able to get out of bed and then what?
Could you have said no? Maybe not. Maybe this place is a bad place to work?
You are apparently a young person. Young persons often think they should just take what the adults dish out. Or you may not have a choice. Do you absolutely positively need the job? Not if you have good parents.
This may not be relevant, but where I live I like to get to know the blue collar people. There is a young man who checks the municipal water supply each morning. I talked with him. I found out his father is a big executive in a big New York hosiptal. He CHOSE to not go to college. He still lives at home, a 5 minute commute to work. He does not sit in a cubicle all day although he does get wet in the rain and sometimes has to work at 3 in the morningwhen the water main breaks. But he's not singing your sad song.
AnonymousDecember 31,2023 at 9:41PM UTC
100%. This is acronym bingo for anyone outside the industry.