© 2022 Fairygodboss. All rights reserved.
Overbearing, Narcissistic, Gaslighting Mother
I need some real advice (not “ . . . she’s the only mother you’ve got so just let it go . . .”. My mother is ridiculously narcissistic and overbearing (to the point she sued my husband and myself for custody of our oldest child because she claimed we weren’t letting her spend enough time with our child - meanwhile she gives zero flips about our younger children) and a chronic gaslighted (she has actually lied about the fact that she sued us for custody - this court case is documented in court records so she is obviously lying). While she wasn’t granted custody, she did; however, receive visitation rights (along with other privileges similar to what a non-custodial ex-spouse would receive) because loopholes governing grandparents’ rights in our state allowed this suit to happen in the first place. Legally, she now has the right to intrude in our lives and be toxic around our children until the oldest turns 18. We can no longer make ANY decisions for our children without her and her lawyer stepping in if she doesn’t like our choices ( example: After I arrived back home from the hospital after giving birth to our youngest child, a letter from her lawyer was waiting in my mailbox. The letter stated that I had NO right to have our oldest child (and our middle child) with us at the hospital because my mother was more than capable of taking care of our oldest child that weekend. We had traded several visitation weeks due to my mother requesting various schedule changes throughout the year and this ONE request on our part in order for both of our children to be present the weekend that their sibling was born was treated like an actual crime - her lawyer had the audacity to threaten us with a court hearing due to this alleged violation of the visitation schedule). I am physically, emotionally, and everything else -ally exhausted by my mother’s manipulative behavior that NO ONE chooses to call her out on - even the people who clearly see that she is in the wrong. We can’t even move out of our current city until our oldest child is 18 because of the geographical restriction clause in the court order. We are literally and figuratively trapped and I’m at the point of a mental breakdown because all of this toxic behavior is being excused and justified. PLEASE ADVISE.
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 7:27PM UTC
I hope that I will be of some help since I am also a child of a narcissistic mother, but please check out the forums at Out Of The Fog. They are a support group for those who have been through and experiencing personality disorder abuse.
I know this time does suck, but please know that you are not alone and there is help.
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:17PM UTC
Thank you so much for that suggestion, I'll definitely be checking that out. Also, thank you for your understanding.
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 5PM UTC
Does your child enjoy the relationship they have with their grandmother? If not, the child should be able to tell the courts that they don’t want to see her anymore. In our state the age is 14 but in some cases younger children have asked not to see someone they’re legally forced to see and won. My stepson does not like spending summers at his mom’s and plans to significantly reduce his time spent with his mother (who does not have and has never had primary custody) once he turns 14. As far as we know, we won’t have to go to court to respect his wishes. So sorry you’re dealing with this, sending love. Xx
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:15PM UTC
Our child does not enjoy that relationship which makes the whole situation that much more stressful. We've already had a mediation session that went absolutely nowhere in terms of revising the amount of time our oldest legally has to spend with my mother. Thank you so much for you4 insight and support.
Anonymous
11/03/19 at 4:49PM UTC
That’s just awful, I’m so sorry. This might sound crazy and I know this isn’t what anyone would want to do, but have you considered packing up and moving anyway? Maybe to a different country even ...pretend to go on vacation, and just don’t come back. It sounds drastic but I actually know two people who have left the country for similar reasons: protecting their children and themselves from an abusive family member when the legal system failed them. You would probably have to deal with a civil contempt of court, if they could find you, but it honestly sounds like disappearing now is a legitimate option based on what you’ve disclosed about the situation throughout the thread. Legal forms of handling the situation haven't worked; to me it seems like you only have the two choices but I hope that changes for you and your family. But maybe access your risk tolerance and talk to a professional about alternative options to the legal system. Nothing lasts forever...this will end one day. Sending all the hope and love xx
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 3:24PM UTC
My mother is also terrible. My only advice is to not speak to her about anything except the child she has rights to specifically. As soon as that child turns 18 move very far away and change your contact information then NEVER talk to her again. Maybe consider having a different way of communication with the oldest child once they turn 18 (Skype, a separate cell phone, etc) so they can’t be manipulated into passing your contact information to your mother. Never speak to your mother again. Do not give her your address, phone number, email, anything. In my case, neither of my parents even know what city I live in so I can protect myself from her. She literally tries to have me arrested when I disagree with her...I was 28 the last time. Never again. I haven’t spoken to the person who gave birth to me in 3 years now and it’s the only thing that’s brought sanity back into my life and HAPPINESS. My husband and close friends are very supportive but she lies and manipulates anyone she can to be against me so I’ve gotten random phone calls and emails urging me to be a good daughter and stop being mean and hateful to my “angelic mother.” It’s maddening and sickening. My heart goes out to you, the gaslighting and manipulation is so hard to deal with, especially from a “mother.” Screw everyone that says she’s your mother and to forgive her. She’s extremely toxic and it sounds like she needed to be out of your life YEARS AGO.
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:09PM UTC
Your mother's behavior is extremely similar to that of my mother. We are definitely changing all contact info and moving across the country as soon as we are legally allowed. Thank you so much for your support.
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 2:35PM UTC
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. How old is your daughter? And how does she feel about the situation (and her grandmother)? Can that have any kind of bearing on the situation?
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:10PM UTC
Also, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:07PM UTC
Our oldest just recently turned 10 so we have another 8 years of this nonsense to contend with unless we find a lawyer to help us. While our child isn't pleased with the situation and actively complains about having to spend every other weekend (along with all the other required times) all of us are at the point where all know that anything other than compliance is going to result in additional chaos.
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 1:46PM UTC
I am so sorry you are going through all of this. It truly sounds like a nightmare. My mother is manipulative sociopath, as well as a professional gaslighter. Thankfully, she doesn't have financial resources to ruin our lives, but she is stellar at making everyone else thing we are the problem. She has had similar problem with each of my siblings. Anyone see a common denominator? No? Ok, then...
I think one thing that is really important (and I don't think anyone has touched on) is having open and honest dialogue with your oldest child. I have a child who recently turned 11 and she has an age appropriate understanding of what is going on. She has also seen the way my mother treats me and heard the things she says. We have largely been out of contact for about a year, but my daughter remembers it all. I recently found a notebook on the dining room table where multiple pages indicated she wished her grandmother would be nice. Talk about heartbreaking.
Your mother has the ability to buy affection, so it is important to have candid conversations about what is discussed, and let your child know they can tell you ANYTHING that goes on with your mother and you will NEVER be mad at them for it. You may think they know this, but if they've been told "this is our little secret" or "don't tell your parents", they may think they or you will get in trouble. Be clear that they are the child and you mother is the adult and should be setting a good example. If she is not, that is not your child's fault. It seems so obvious, but I can tell you from experience, there is probably a lot being whispered that you don't know about.
Sorry this was so long and I really am hoping you find someone to appeal this horrendous decision. In the meantime, know that you are not the problem. Try to stay strong. Don't let her see how much it is affecting you, it will only bring her joy.
Anonymous
11/02/19 at 2:02PM UTC
We have definitely had the "you can tell us anything conversation" several times over the years. The initial time this conversation was brought up was after we found a journal that belonged to our oldest and it detailed information about a trip during the summer that involved out of state travel. At first it read like a creative writing prompt assignment given in class, but upon further inspection we realized that my mother had traveled to several different states with our child during the summer during her portion of summer visitation and mother NEVER had the decency to tell us that she would be traveling out of state with our child. We have also had the conversation about affection being purchased as every week my mother sends our child home with bags full of new items.
Anonymous
11/03/19 at 1:42PM UTC
Any other person with visitation would have been charged with kidnapping for doing that! Not pMs. Wonderful, I guess! That is not only disrespectful, it's just plain dangerous. I found out after the fact that my mother had taken my daughter to see someone I specifically said "no" to, and for the very simple reason that if this person wanted contact with us, they knew where to find us. I was very clear she was not to bring her there. But she did. My daughter was exhibiting some real anxiety, which she hadn't before. It turns out, she was holding on to what my mother literally called "our little secret" (which just conjures such horrible images), and it was causing a lot of issues for her. She was hyperventilating as she was trying to tell me because she was so worried she was going to be in trouble. Just one more reason to know we aren't the crazy ones. I told my daughter that aside from my mother lying, she made HER lie, and put her in a dangerous situation because her father and I had no idea where she really was. It's truly infuriating to be undermined as a parent, but also to be emotionally and mentally beaten.
I'm glad you've got that open dialogue. It's really the best you can do for now, until someone sees all of this for what it really is.
Anonymous
11/03/19 at 2:21PM UTC
You are absolutely correct, no charges be a according to her lawyer she was well within her rights to vacation anywhere she pleased with our child during her visitation period. We had also discovered that the reason they had been out of the state was to visit someone repeatedly instructed my mother to keep away from my child (and like you, if I wanted this person to know where I was, they would have been given my contact information). On one hand, I’m glad I’m not the only one experiencing such shenanigans, on the other hand, I’m infuriated that ANYONE has to live like this due to narcissists with boundary issues. Thank you so much for understanding.
Victoria Conly
Talent Acquisition Operations
294
10/30/19 at 9:43PM UTC
I am so sorry you’re going through this. I honestly have nothing valuable to add here other than to offer my deepest sympathy for your situation. Is she still married or does she have a significant other who can intercede with her on your behalf?
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 5:58AM UTC
To be perfectly honest, sympathy goes a long way, it makes me feel a little less insane in this situation. She is still married, her husband was also named as a plaintiff in this suit. He is just as toxic as she is with the added bonus of he was physically abusive towards me when I was a child (yet another reason I wanted (and still want) nothing to do with them as an adult with children of my own. Thank you, again.
Victoria ConlyTalent Acquisition Operations
294
10/31/19 at 10:25AM UTC
Oh no. I’m so sorry. Can that physical abuse be leveraged in your dealings with them? Or would you feel too uncomfortable trotting that out publicly?
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 1:35PM UTC
Thank you. The abuse was mentioned during the mandatory mediation session and I was told by her lawyer and the mediator that my account had to be an exaggeration because there were no police reports (the abuse happened over 15 years ago at a time when the police were of the school of thought that a man can discipline (in most cases abuse is a more accurate description) his children any way he saw fit and I didn't bruise easily so a lot of the abuse went undetected). My mother tends to gaslight the abuse situation as well, she will either flat-out deny that it happened at all or try to justify it as discipline.
See other replies
Anonymous
10/30/19 at 9:38PM UTC
This sounds like such a nightmare! From what little I've heard, it sounds like you are being controlled and harrassed by someone who may very well be mentally ill. It blows me away that the court would give your mother the power to be so disruptive over your lives--it's like the court has made you her prisoners! I agree that you need a really good attorney...one who cares more about helping people than how much money s/he can make from the case. If you can afford it, I would suggest finding a good therapist to help you cope with the stress of this. It does sound fishy that she has been given so much control over your lives, which leads me to wonder (as you have) if there was some financial incentive given that made things conveniently work out in her favor. This just doesn't sound right.
BansheeBaileyFormer law firm accountant, now retired.
918
10/30/19 at 10:44PM UTC
Yes. Is the mother just a really good liar? Is she “connected?” It sounds to me that there is more to this story. It’s not adding up. If mom isn’t harassing or stalking the parents in violation of law, I’m not sure there is anything a court can do. You can’t take someone to court for being obnoxious. Then again, I’m not familiar with the relevant laws. Was there a judgment when mom sued for custody? If not, why did she drop the suit (if she did)?
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 5:53AM UTC
My mother is an extremely well-versed liar who has the upper hand due to her background in criminal justice and psychology and being ridiculously rich doesn’t hurt either (and yes, her criminal justice background and her money afford her a ridiculous amount of connections that have most likely aided in her good fortune in relation to this case). For the most part, she stays just this side of the law to where she wouldn’t be in violation of anything other than being obnoxious - she’s smart enough not to be a stalker or physically abusive. The judgment (I stated it briefly somewhere along this thread but it may have gotten lost so I’ll elaborate on it here), was that she received visitation (1st, 3rd, 5th weekends, most of Winter Break, all of Spring Break, and almost the entire Summer break), we are legally required to list her as the emergency contact on our children’s school and medical paperwork (and she has access to information contained within both), and a geographical restriction that prevents us from moving outside of our current county of residence without her approval (all these stipulations become null and void once our oldest turns 18). She didn’t; however, receive custody of our child.
EmpoweredGirl180418
145
10/30/19 at 1:35PM UTC
Going at your problem from different angle. Have you spoken with an attorney or doctor about getting your Mother psychologically evaluated. Not sure if having issues of that sort would cause the Courts to amend their rulings but it’s an idea.
Anonymous
10/30/19 at 6:29PM UTC
Yes, actually we have. Unfortunately, as someone who has a degree in Psychology and someone who has a background in social work and criminal justice, she know exactly how to manipulate evaluations and has fooled trained professionals into believing that there is nothing wrong with her or her actions/behavior. Thank you so much for your suggestion.
Nancie ShumanHippy dippy Princess out to change the world!
803
10/30/19 at 5:43AM UTC
Is there anything you can negotiate with? Is there anything she wants? Working with a narcissist is crazy making, but usually you can find something which they want more than what they have. If you can figure that key out, you can make changes.
Sorry, I know this sounds like a crazy direction to take. Put it down to my spending too many hours in Abnormal Psych classes. But how to survive crazy is really important. And sometimes you have to get one up on them.
(There are several very good books on being the daughter of a narcissistic mother. While they won't help with the immediate problem, great resource if you haven't had a chance to read any of them.)
Anonymous
10/30/19 at 7:12AM UTC
Honestly, there are only two things that she wants, to have custody of our oldest child - her favorite grandchild - and to assert her will upon everyone around her. She already has more money than she can spend in several lifetimes (and the items that that kind of money affords her) so there's really not much more she needs/wants that we could offer as a satisfactory trade for our freedom. I completely understand the method to the madness approach to dealing with narcissists; this case just feels like a no-win all around. I almost feel as though every time I answer a response (with yes, we've tried that already - because we've been dealing with this for years) that I would like I'm just make nf excuses to not deal with this in a more productive manner. But, in fact, we have tried everything within our ability and economic means to bring this dramatic nightmare to an end. I'm tired of being tired and finding the will to wake up every morning and put up with whatever fresh hell awaits me is dwindling. Thank you so much for your insight.
Nancie ShumanHippy dippy Princess out to change the world!
803
10/30/19 at 7:22AM UTC
I hear you and I recognize that this is incredibly triggering. I hope you are able to get some freedom soon. So frustrating.
Anonymous
10/31/19 at 5:33AM UTC
We are just counting down the years until we are free of this nightmare. Thank you so much.
BansheeBaileyFormer law firm accountant, now retired.
918
10/29/19 at 6:02PM UTC (Edited)
You need legal advice from a pitbull local custody lawyer who has seen all of this before and who knows your state’s laws inside and out. You may be able to find grounds to at least loosen your mother’s grasp around the neck of your family, or at least be in a better position to spot such grounds when Mom pushes her luck in the future. Knowledge is power. And as Alison said, document everything. Good luck.
Anonymous
10/30/19 at 2:44AM UTC
Yes, we have documented, documented, documented all the shenanigans because our hope is to find a lawyer willing and able to take this case. So far, the only legal advice we keep getting is " . . . just ride it out until the oldest is 18 . . .". Knowledge is power for sure. To be perfectly honest, we believe some backdoor deals involving large sums of money were involved because there are elements (that I didn't get into for the sake of brevity) that conveniently fell into place for my mother that might not have occurred for a non-finacially endowed individual. Thank you so much for your advice.
BansheeBaileyFormer law firm accountant, now retired.
918
10/30/19 at 12:40PM UTC
Silly question for your lawyer, maybe: what do you want to see happen here? What would you settle for? The issue I see is you and your partner’s rights as a parent. There are a lot of lazy lawyers out there who want the most money for the least work.
20 years ago I saw a lawyer after being hit by a car. The state I was living in had strict no-fault laws and this guy told me I couldn’t recover because although my soft tissue was hamburger, I had not broken a bone. So I told him I couldn’t retain him (what would be the point?) and he left my abode bitterly complaining that I had treated the consult “like a job interview,” (It was, buddy.)
Someone than recommended his uncle, and that guy turned out to be a seasoned litigator who got me $30K based on the scars on my hands (they weren’t pretty, but I’d never thought of building a case on them.) Not a fortune, but not bad considering the strict law regarding “injury.” And this after Lawyer Number One told me I couldn’t get anything.
Sorry for the long story. But there are crummy lawyers and there are industrious and resourceful lawyers. If one won’t take your case, ask him for recos of lawyers with experience in laws concerning parental rights. I swear they all know each other.
Again, sorry if you’ve heard all this before.
Madam anon663Learner, skeptic, direct.
1.5k
10/31/19 at 5:56AM UTC
I like how you turn this into all about you!
See other replies
Anonymous
10/30/19 at 6:36PM UTC
Our only hope is to be able to parent our children and not have to subject them to toxic family members (my mother and a few other relatives that excuse and/or encourage her behavior. We are adults and we should be able to not answer our door when she decides to visit unannounced and not have that seen as a crime. She has severe boundary issues and it's been out of control for too long. In our city, ALL of the family law attorneys know each other and even with recommendations, none of those recommendations pan out because no one wants to deal with this debacle based on how it was initially handled (as another commenter mentioned, our parental rights shouldn't have been compromised in the first place - the loophole should have been countered).
See other replies
© 2022 Fairygodboss. All rights reserved.