Asked to "Do the Job" as Part of Interview Process

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Anonymous

11/23/20 at 4:38PM UTC

Career

Asked to "Do the Job" as Part of Interview Process

I have been interviewing with a company and have already had multiple interviews with various stakeholders. As part of the final interview process, they informed me that I would need to give a presentation. I thought to myself, "No problem! I am quite comfortable doing that." However, when the instructions arrived, I was surprised about the presentation's topic, as it seems to me that they are looking for me to do a critical part of the job (strategy), before being paid. The presentation prompt was "Given what you know about the role, what is your strategy to execute on supporting the company’s growth as we significantly increase the headcount year over year for the next 3 years? Please include resources such as headcount, tools and budget, you will need in order to execute, as well as assumptions you’ll use as you go through the presentation." I honestly thought the presentation I'd be doing would be topic related to the role-- such as on motivation, leadership, emotional intelligence, etc. When I saw the topic prompt was this, my immediate (and since, lingering) thought has been that they want me to outline my 3 year strategy for the role, and get it for free. They could still hire someone else and then tell that person, "execute on this 3 year plan we had someone else create." As a consultant, this is work I would get paid for if it were one of my clients asking for it. I think this is a big red flag (there were other red flags also throughout the process), but what do you think? --

53 Comments

Anonymous

11/23/20 at 6:22PM UTC

I was asked to do the same thing at my last interview (a promotion in my company, so I knew all the ins and outs already). I had the same thought - why am I doing the work before getting the job!? In the end, I did it because all of the candidates were internal so I wasn't really giving anything away the others didn't know. The funny thing is, they didn't hire me but then asked me to be on a workgroup doing that same work with the person they did hire, but with no compensation! I declined that offer and (finally) realized my worth. I know that story doesn't totally align with your situation, but it did bring back that memory. I would advise you to go through with the interview if it's a job you want but maybe treat it more like a pitch, if you were trying to pick up a freelance job - you wouldn't necessarily give the prospective client the whole plan, right? So give enough detail to show your talent and expertise, but not enough for them to take your plan and implement without you. Good luck!

User edited comment on 12/02/20 at 8:56PM UTC

1 Reply

Jennifer Benson

112

Educator, Certified Pk-12

11/23/20 at 6:38PM UTC

I agree, Amy. Don't just give away your knowledge and expertise.

Heather Morrison

118

Marketing & Communicaitons Manager

11/23/20 at 7:34PM UTC

That is a a huge red flag! I'm sharing a link from one of my favorite experts in this field Liz Ryan, who gives some great advice on how to handle exactly this type of situation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2018/03/06/no-i-wont-write-a-marketing-plan-as-part-of-the-interview-process/?sh=15a7ee607280 If you don't follow her on Twitter or LinkedIn, I highly recommend doing so. She give ssome incredible advice.

4 Replies

Anne Barnwell

771

Resumes that get results

11/23/20 at 7:57PM UTC

Love Liz!

Saidah Abdulhaqq

871

Digital Strategist Marketing Technologist Coach

11/23/20 at 9:26PM UTC

In case you hav already used up your Forbes freebies (like me), here's a similar one https://socialmediapro.com/blog/decline-writing-marketing-plan-interview/

User edited comment on 11/23/20 at 9:26PM UTC

Chrishogg

272

11/26/20 at 2:10PM UTC

Also check out www.asktheheadhunter.com where Nick Corcodilos also addresses this very issue.

Kara D Stroud

467

Technology Advocate

11/26/20 at 2:14PM UTC

I was going to tell her to read Liz Ryan's book "Reinvention Roadmap" She specifically covers this in her book and how you approach it.

User edited comment on 11/26/20 at 2:15PM UTC

elizh

11/23/20 at 7:47PM UTC

I appreciate this conversation. We have started this where I am and most of my interview tasks are made up more to demonstrate skill level with software or how well a person can interpret instructions. I’ll keep this in mind!

beth

software engineering manager

11/23/20 at 7:51PM UTC

I can only share from a tech job perspective, but if you're being asked to do a project as part of the interview process you should be paid for it. Many companies do this - usually they cap the amount of time and/or money for the project.

Anonymous

11/23/20 at 7:52PM UTC

I had a similar experience and had gleaned enough information during the interview to know this Branch Manager was asking each candidate for a business plan. I believed that way he would take the best of all the submissions and create his own. I reached into my briefcase and asked relevant questions as I began filling out a contract. I wanted him to understand I would not give away my time and talent. He was surprised and expressed his unwillingness to enter into a mutually beneficial business transaction. I remain confident I made the right decision. Trust your instincts and hold on to your power. You will find a company worthy of you.

1 Reply

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 4:46PM UTC

That is awesome!!!! I’m going to start carrying or sending a contract if this happens to me again. I’m extremely tired of being asked to supply these presentations, marketing plans, strategic plans - all for free. At the start of COVID, I gave away two marketing plans to a company I really wanted to work for. One plan was taking COVID into account, and the other was in a non-COVID environment. Not only have I seen them utilizing elements of both plans, but I didn’t get the job, or even the courtesy of a rejection email/letter/carrier pigeon. I had to contact their HR to ask about the position. I won’t do that again. I also won’t take those ridiculous evaluations they have on Indeed. I have many years experience in my field. If people want to know if I know how to do my job, they can interview me or people I’ve worked with. It’s getting outrageous. They expect to have you give them your knowledge, experience and skills in a manner where they can hire an intern to perform them. At some point, in an idea world, things will turn and it will be a job seekers world and companies like these will hopefully reap what they sowed. Onward and upward!

Virginia Keleher

Nonprofit Leader and Changemaker

11/23/20 at 8:48PM UTC

We have this as part of our interview process at our company, in some departments, but not all. In the departments where they use this tool, they hire the person with the best plan however, I do think it lends to them doing "free work" prior to entering the company and are never compensated for it. I also find the culture in those departments often is one where the MD is not holding up their work but the next tier of directors down from him are. So I would definitely view this as a red flag, whether they don't hire you and take your work OR hire you but consistently do not give you credit for work in full/not compensated in the way you should be. One of the people who interviewed for the position, made a partial plan and presented it and ended the plan with critical questions and data sets they would look at next to confirm the plan was on the right track before finishing it. It left the interviewers more intrigued and prompted them to think through what collaborating with the candidate would be like in real life (also showcased additional skills they have), while not giving away all the facets of what they would or could do... could be a way of approaching the situation if you need the job despite the red flag (I don't want to assume you are in the position to turn it down if you're not!).

1 Reply

Joanne Brown

Marketing and Communications person

11/26/20 at 4:48PM UTC

That candidate was absolutely correct. There’s only so much you can do without having access to proprietary and confidential information.

Anonymous

11/23/20 at 9:17PM UTC

While interviewing for a managerial role, I was asked to put together a product marketing plan including digital campaigns, events, strategies and website. It was a third interview at the company and they told me I had the job. I wanted the position so I put together a full campaign including asset mockups, cross-selling promotions, publicity, slogans and I was proud of what I put together. I caution about these matters as not only did I not get the job (they promoted an internal team member that was part of the interview process) but my exact plan was set in motion. When I saw my work used without my permission, they said any material submitted during the interview process is property of the company. If you have red flags, go with your gut or make sure you know what that submission entails.

3 Replies

Mindy Sharp

11/25/20 at 10:32PM UTC

Yes, this happened to me twice. It won’t ever again.

2 Replies

Kelly Hammer

11/26/20 at 4:49PM UTC

In my opinion, companies that have no issue asking you to put together a presentation such as this without paying you for it, are the same companies that have no boundaries when it comes to working their employees as hard as they can for as long as they can for as little as they can. They have no regard for the employee and typically experience high burn out and turnover ratios. This is not a small assignment and will likely take an exorbitant amount of hours to complete. This tells me a lot more about their culture than it tells them about my skill set.

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 5:29PM UTC

Mindy and Joanne, I'm sorry that happened to you and it's a horrible feeling. Unfortunately it's commonplace as well as holding interviews for positions that aren't available. I understand that companies are required to post opening even though they have a confirmed internal candidate but when people are investing their time in a long interview process they should display decorum.

User edited comment on 11/26/20 at 5:30PM UTC

Joanne Brown

Marketing and Communications person

11/26/20 at 4:49PM UTC

I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I have as well, several times. Now, I will never do it again.

User edited comment on 11/26/20 at 4:58PM UTC

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 5:35PM UTC

Thank you all for the support! The hardest part of the journey was that I really needed a job and wasn't casually searching. I invested two months with multiple interviews while watching my savings dwindled. That being said, I'm grateful I didn't get the role as looking back, although it would have been an easier path, it wasn't my own. I got there eventually but it took hard work and obstacles to overcome. As others mentioned, it was a learning curve and spoke volumes of how the company would treat employees. Happy Thanksgiving and have a healthy and safe holiday!

Mary

Admin professional/leader in Chicago

11/23/20 at 10:37PM UTC

Yikes! Some kind of practical assessment is one thing, but they shouldn't have you doing the job in the interview. A lot of employers have forgotten that you need to respect the candidates and their time otherwise you'll have a hard time getting the best to join your team.

1 Reply

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 4:52PM UTC

I had eight different interviews with one company. It was ridiculous. The VP of HR was the final interview and not only was she late to the video interview, she hadn’t looked at my resume, she couldn’t find my resume, and she shared a confidential presentation with me, even after I reminded her I didn’t sign a non-disclosure agreement. I didn’t get the position, and I had to hunt down her second or third in command to even find that out. So unprofessional and outrageous. I think that company is not one to join.

garbo

Entertainment content professional

11/23/20 at 11:46PM UTC

Reminds me of a company in my industry (entertainment) that famously, some would say notoriously, would keep a jr. executive slot open at all times but never seemed to actually hire anyone; applicants for this coveted job were always put through multiple rounds of interviews and were asked to do script notes on difficult projects that needed work. It was considered a rite of passage to have done notes one one of these in particular, a project that languished for years and when finally made was pretty terrible. With these types of companies, it is a catch 22 and odds are good you are being used, but you can't win if you don't play. I went through this same deal at a different company and had done 3 rounds of notes on projects and still heard nothing after weeks, so I then went the extra mile and (unasked) sent them writer and director lists on all of the open assignments the company was trying to fill at the time. It was THEN that I got hired.

Dawn S. Cross

826

Goals should scare a little & excite a lot

11/24/20 at 1:42PM UTC

Trust your gut. Just reading this threw up flags everywhere for me too. If you are still interested in the role, seek clarification and explain to them what your concerns are, although it would seem that what they want is exactly what you see - your work without the cost

sommer

104

Empowerment Life Coach

11/24/20 at 1:53PM UTC

Hi Amy, It is not unusual for a business to ask for this type of presentation however, there are some great comments on here and ways to cleverly present. It would be great to still go forward as nothing ventured nothing gained. Good luck

Julie S.

I'm an engineer doing environmental compliance.

11/24/20 at 11:23PM UTC

Definitely agree to give vague ideas and a general pitch and not anything specific that would give away your expertise for free.

Michelle Okeke

Marketing Manager at Essence Communications

11/25/20 at 4:29AM UTC

I think you could say what you just said, to them - specifically this line: "As a consultant, this is work I would get paid for if it were one of my clients asking for it." Just reiterating that would ensure there is a clear understanding about how you value your work. Other candidates may decide to just do the work, but you still have the advantage. I wonder if you could offer to share an example of a similar strategy you put together for another client (removing all specifics and brand names) ? That might be an accepted workaround.

Wendy Dackson

162

Former academic, current office manager

11/25/20 at 1:35PM UTC

Years ago (maybe about 13), I was interviewing for an academic position in England. It's common there to bring all the candidates in on the same day, and even rotate them through different aspects of the institution--so not only do you know who you're competing with, but you actually see them face to face and interact with them. Usually there is a presentation aspect, and you're given a general topic beforehand so you can prepare. Not in this case. They split the shortlisted candidates into two groups, handed us the topic, and asked the groups to put together a GROUP presentation. I don't ever think I've been in a more uncomfortable interview situation in my life (well, maybe the one where one of the selection committee members outright accused me of lying on my CV). But it was a fine line between wanting to do my best, and not wanting to give the other "teammates" a boost. Ugh. Just thinking about it makes my skin crawl.

Debbie Shapiro

11/25/20 at 2:27PM UTC

I'm getting a flashback. In the early 2000s, I worked for a company that was about to shut down (dot com), so my entire team (tech workers) were all interviewing at the same time and we were comparing notes. There was another company in the same building that was interviewing candidates for the same role we each had. They were asking all of us about performance improvements to a process using a software platform we shared in common with our current jobs and this company. We all came to the same conclusion they were looking for advice they could use to solve an issue they were seeing by having their candidates give free support. Needless to say, none of us were hired. That's a really cheesy thing for a company to do and hurts their reputation.

Tami Cannizzaro

11/25/20 at 3:21PM UTC

Wowza. Intellectual property - yours, in this case - should not be given away. Just as the company doesn't share all of its proprietary information with candidates. If you really want to move forward, I agree with my colleagues on this thread to keep it simple and prepare almost an outline presentation. In my experience, I have never been given enough information during an interview to truly understand the details involved in making the assessments they are asking of you anyway. You could even start by saying that while you've learned a lot, you would hate to make assumptions about the details of their organization so your presentation is at the 100,000 foot level and once hired you'll be happy to insert data points/details. Or something like that. Best of Luck!

JYJ

1.33k

11/25/20 at 3:27PM UTC

Liz Ryan's take on this is perfect. Never work for free.

Megan Folsom

11/25/20 at 5:55PM UTC

As someone who interviews and hires managers, I understand the desire to have some sort of structured activity that shows how a person responds to a realistic work scenario. Asking questions alone only gives you a one-dimensional view of the candidate. That said, I am adamant, when hiring, not to give candidates work that is of direct value to the company. If they do this type of work, they should be paid for it, period. It is unethical to do anything else and not doing so carries the risk of exclusionary behavior that possibly takes advantage of someone in a more vulnerable position because they are looking for a job. In addition, giving candidates work to do that closely aligned with your business objectives shows a lack of imagination. There are ways to assess experiential behavior without giving candidates take home scenarios or real cases for your company. It requires a bit more prep work on the part of the hiring manager but this is work hiring managers need to do. One of my favorite ways to do this is an interactive white boarding session to talk through hypothetical scenarios. It’s important to stress, when doing this, what your meta-level objective is for the session. I.e. see how a candidate tackles a problem space, or see how they react to another person when coming up with ideas.

Elizabeth Marie

188

Scientist and M.B.A. Candidate

11/25/20 at 8:21PM UTC

Wow, that seems interesting and time consuming with no promise. I was asked for materials that I used to present a solution to a problem from before. Examples of work are good. I would present something for a previous idea instead of something of their request.

[email protected]

146

11/26/20 at 1:40PM UTC

I agree with everyone. More than likely, you will not be hired but your work will. Align yourself with a company that values your work and who is excited to hire you and have you produce as part of a team. Good candidates are hard to come by in this market. Don't be suckered into doing work as "part of the interview process." Let them bring you in for a day so you can shadow.

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 1:58PM UTC

DO NOT DO THIS. They want to hire someone else and use your talent and ideas for THEIR benefit while kicking you to the curb. I had this happen before too like many others here. I am so glad FairyGodBoss is here so we can share what has happen to us and warn others not to make the same mistake as some of us did. Never will I ever give my ideas or expertise away for free. They got me twice. Never again.

Jennifer Finger

148

Thinking with both sides of my brain!

11/26/20 at 2:04PM UTC

I keep running into this - some employer wants me to "audition" for a job by providing free work to prove my competence. I refuse.

Myla Lowrance

Brilliance in Progress

11/26/20 at 2:04PM UTC

This sort of presentation has become common in marketing interviews according to several of my friends; fortunately, I have not come across it. But frankly, I would refuse to give away my time and talent for free. I find this tactic to be a gross abuse of power on the hiring company’s part. A presentation on skill and knowledge is one thing, spec work is another. As an example - ad agencies have moved away from providing spec work for client bids without being hired first and build concepting into the contract upon hire so they get paid for it. I treat myself and my abilities in the same manner and would simply state that.

Gretchen Scheiman

11/26/20 at 2:08PM UTC

Here is a different perspective: there is no possible way that you could glean enough information during an interview process to create a strategy that would be "right". There is too much you don't know. The request is to give some insight into how you think. Your response should reflect that ... target a few key numbers and show your thought process. I have given this assignment and the response gave a ton of up front goodwill and credibility to the candidate from key groups she will need to work with in her new role, all before she accepted the job. There is value in this type of assignment for both candidate and hiring organization. And of course none of the material created was usable. If I need usable strategies I will pay for them and structure a process to ensure they are grounded in my business realities. An interview process does not do that.

User edited comment on 11/26/20 at 2:12PM UTC

2 Replies

Kara D Stroud

467

Technology Advocate

11/26/20 at 2:33PM UTC

The poster isn't being asked to give some general information. She is being asked about strategic planning over a 3 year timeframe including headcount, a budget, etc. A consultant would get paid for the same info. She's being asked to do it for free. This is something that will be time consuming and doesn't guarantee her the job. And once she gives it to the company it becomes their property; not hers. And they can take her ideas and run with them.

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 4:44PM UTC

It is incredibly difficult to create a professional strategy or plan oriented presentation, on any subject, in an hour or two. It can take that long just to get the formatting right. And to everyone’s point, you never have enough information so you are spinning your wheels trying to figure out how to create a presentation that demonstrates your expertise without giving away the farm. I’ve been in the situation and I refuse to do it again. It is way too time consuming and it’s just difficult to do it right. Any real strategist knows that this is a virtually impossible task and quite frankly it is rude to a ask someone to do it for free.

Flossy

1.02k

Client Solutions Consultant

11/26/20 at 2:12PM UTC

Simple answer. Thank you for your interest. This is what I provide for my paid consulting clients. I am happy to provide you a proposal with a price for work and even present it to your organization. Leave it at that. Walk away. Interviews are two way streets. Free consulting is not part of that. Candidates .. good candidates need to push back on hiring practices which stretch the bounds. It is okay and actually freeing to say thank you for considering me but I’m not interested in continuing in the process. I’m fine with a paid couple of days for people to work with a team. Do a small coding assignment not related to the product that takes a maximum of three hours to complete, take calls for a call center, rude along as a pharma sales rep. Even put together a 90 day plan of how you will set yourself up for success. 3 years ... no.,

User edited comment on 11/26/20 at 2:16PM UTC

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 2:17PM UTC

Hi there, You also mentioned there have been several red flags. I think you should go with your gut on this one - if there are several red flags, maybe this company is one to be wary about? Maybe this role won't be all it's cracked up to be. It would be a good idea to really picture what it would be like working in this role and working for this company, and really be realistic and practical about whether this would be a good fit for your or not. Best of luck but sounds like you have good intuition.

Katie

11/26/20 at 2:28PM UTC

I only do presentations or projects if they give me literally everything I need to be successful. You want me spend hours doing research, learning about your company, learning about your customers, creating slides, and giving a presentation? No way. But if I'm given the slides and information, a recording of how they usually do presentations, and told I can make it my own - sure! At that point they're interested in seeing my presentation skills, not asking me to do all of the work for them.

Joanne Rosen

139

Resume Writer Extraordinaire!

11/26/20 at 4:11PM UTC

RED FLAG on the play! Run as fast as you can. I was asked to do that and, stupidly, did. Oddly, they didn't hire anyone. Hmmmm . . .

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 4:27PM UTC

I would recommend coming up with an engagement agreement, outlining expectations, hourly consulting rate, and payment terms BEFORE the interview. Provided they accept your terms, bring your invoice to the interview. You are not required to give away your expertise for free. Not even for a job you may really want. Know your value. Know your worth. Don't settle for less.

Anonymous

11/26/20 at 8:16PM UTC

I didn't have to do a strategy pitch, but a pitch as to why I would be good for the company, it hired me but about 12 months later had financial problems. I left for what I thought was a better job , well that was a mistake. However the owner of the first company and I still get on really well and frequently have a coffee to share news and what's happening in the government arena. But would I go back and work for him, nope.

Randi

PMP Certified Project Manager

11/26/20 at 8:33PM UTC

I had to do something similarly for a job that I had interviewed for, and it was only the 2nd step in the process, after having an initial interview with the recruiter. It took me hours to put together the presentation, and then I never heard back from the company. This really ticked me off because I wasted hours to do something, and the company couldn't even give me the courtesy of responding back to me. After that experience, I actually wrote a negative review of that company on glassdoor so others would be warned of this. And I would never work for that company even if they did come back to me.

Lora M. Del Page

11/26/20 at 8:37PM UTC

I make it a personal policy to never move forward with companies that request projects as part of the interview process. It has always just had the wrong smell about it for me.

Lana Markovic

Communications | Branding | Personal Development

11/27/20 at 2:02PM UTC

Wow, that sounds like a lot of really valuable work they've asked you to do. I've spent most of this year interviewing and sadly found myself in a few situations when companies asked for a marketing or communications plan as part of the interview process, so I'm not surprised to read that. Sometimes, if it's a new role on the team, the hiring managers who don't have a clear strategy want to know how someone would approach that role and therefore ask for a plan before hiring. It reflects poorly on them. There are also hiring managers/teams who simply want to test someone's thinking and creativity, which can be done through that sort of assignment, however in that case it needs to be emphasized that the result should be a high-level plan that won't take more than an hour or two to prepare. Eventually, I landed a great role after working on a plan and presenting it, however thinking back, I wish I had skipped on some of the other assignments that didn't result in an offer anyway. The gut feeling is very important to take into account!

Lisa

Concierge Coach in Connecticut

11/27/20 at 3:12PM UTC

I had a comparable situation happen to me. Although I wasn't asked for a presentation, the interview proved more of a consult instead of an interview. I was very enthusiastic during the interview to demonstrate my knowledge of the area. The interviewers were taking notes on everything I said. After the interview, I reflected on the experience and realized that I should have charged for the consult. The company ghosted me when I tried to follow up on the interview. The positive is that this was an opportunity to learn how to recognize an interview and a consult disguised as an interview.

Steph Routh

Coalition builder for social change

11/28/20 at 12:50AM UTC

Assignments as part of job processes definitely seem to becoming a trend. Once I was asked to mock up an enewsletter as a candidate for a comms position. I wasn't hired, but they used all my HTML (including a coded signature, which is how I knew it was my work). So when I was recently asked to do an assignment for a position, I contacted the hiring manager to share three pieces of information: my enthusiasm for the position; my past unfortunate experience with candidate assignments; and my trust in them that they would not use the output of this assignment as unpaid labor benefiting the organization. What followed was a wonderful conversation with the hiring manager about why they chose an assignment as part of the process, how they were safeguarding against any use of the assignment, and how they structured the exercise to not take more than a specific (short) period of time. I was anxious to bring it up to the hiring manager and so, so glad I did. I think it made us both appreciate one another more.

Jessica Pham-Ruhland

Business Development

11/29/20 at 7:02AM UTC

+1 to so many of the comments above. I'm really glad that I came across this thread. I had an interview this season that asked me to solve the exact business problem the team would face in a couple of months, which was when the role would be onboarded and what the role would actually tackle. The hiring manager expected the full, complete project proposal -- aka the actual product the role should work on and be paid for. I was not going to spend days on this just in hopes of moving onto the next round of interviews. I set a limit of one hour and turned in what I had, even if it meant not being sufficient enough to move forward. I didn't move forward, but no regrets. I did not want to turn in free work.

Katie

11/29/20 at 6:21PM UTC

As an HR professional, while sitting thru interviews for myself, I too have been asked 'hypothetical' questions that were a bit too detailed that I felt that I was providing free HR consulting advice to their current, real-life, internal issues that were going on in their workplace. And then not getting the job. It's like 'gee...I am glad that I could help them out'. It's frustrating as it's not a true testament of interviewing me and asking me about my own business experiences.

Anonymous

11/29/20 at 9:30PM UTC

I think it is reasonable to request a presentation / project as part of the interview process to demonstrate your skills. I won't hire someone without one, though I usually pick subsets of past projects that we have already completed. What I'm looking for is a thought process and approach. This will be predictive enough. That said, asking someone for a free strategy is another thing entirely. I agree with what some of the others folks who commented have said. You should be able to give enough to demonstrate your capabilities without providing a complementary work-for-hire. I'd be questioning their integrity and wondering if this was the kind of company where I'd thrive. Best of luck!