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Workplace Abuse - HR problem? Employee problem?
I am curious to see what my fellow FGBs think about this matter. Have you experienced workplace abuse? Bullying? Inappropriate behavior/words? Have you talked to your manager? Have you escalated to HR? Have you shared via employee engagement surveys?
Am I the problem for allowing the behavior? Am I the problem for staying all these years?
38 Comments
Anonymous
12/22/20 at 9:18PM UTC
in
I'd file a complaint with HR but they won't really do anything unless something is in writing that they can prove and see with their own eyes, otherwise it's a he said/she said situation. If you can't afford to just quit you should just start looking until you find something better.
Anonymous
12/23/20 at 1:30AM UTC
in
It depends what state you are in but my state will definitely do something legally check out
Www.eeoc.org
barbg
198
12/27/20 at 2:25PM UTC
in
I filed an EEOC complaint once. All they did was issue me a "right to sue" letter, which was at least better than the outright dismissal of my complaint that the company was asking for. My understanding is that a "right to sue" letter is the normal outcome for most complaints, but if you don't have deep enough pockets to interest a lawyer, it ends there.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 11:07PM UTC
in
The EEOC is increasingly attempting to resolve cases for claimants who receive right to sue notices via arbitration. I heard that their trial backlog is at least 2 years. I agree it would come with the financial considerations of hiring legal representation, and would add that the case would also become public record (available to future possible employers). If both sides agree to arbitration it does not mean you give up your right to sue unless a settlement is agreed upon during the arbitration process. No lawyers or evidence are required during arbitration. It’s more of a conversation between both parties then between each party individually and the arbitrator and then settlement propositions are negotiated back and forth with the arbitrator communicating to each side. Either an agreement is made or no agreement can be reached and the claimant decides to pursue with legal proceedings or drop the case. There is a relatively short window to file the lawsuit if this decision is made.
Anonymous
12/22/20 at 9:18PM UTC
in
Yes, and I finally lawyered up. "HR" was non-existent. Was mad as hell and not going to take it any more. Received severance agreement, eligibility for UE benefits, and a mutual "no badmouthing" agreement. Not fun. But you need to take care of you.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 1:27PM UTC
in
Same here. HR is strictly to protect the EMPLOYER, not the employee. Worked for 35 years and kicked to the curb because an exec didn't like me. Worst career experience of my life and has taken me a full year to get over.
Anonymous
12/22/20 at 9:54PM UTC
in
A male co-worker grabbed my buttocks in front of my team and I WENT OFF! I told him if he ever put his hands on me I was going to slap him into next week. I was then told to go to EAP because I had anger issues and threathen physical violence against a co-worker. I declined the offer and asked why I was being punished? No real concrete answers were given but a few months later he was fired.
My boss then told me they started documenting incidents against him and mine was the first one. They wanted me to go to EAP to cover their a$$.
I say this because don't allow people to disrespect you and think others will do something about it. Set boundaries and go from there. Do what's best for you.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 9:24PM UTC
in
EAP at my workplace was amazing they worked with me almost against my manager and HR when I was being targeted. I did end up leaving but they helped me outsmart the parties trying to screw me.
I asked why they helped me against the company and they said it’s their actual name because someone has to help the employee. I’m sure it’s not like that everywhere but it was the opposite of HR
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:01PM UTC
in
Unfortunately, our EAP will contact the most senior HR person which means...nothing happens. This person is incredibly close with my team lead so nothing will get done. Thank you!!
Christine Dilks
73
01/15/21 at 9:44PM UTC
in
Thats too bad most of what EAP does is HIPAA protected if they give any kind of counseling
Anonymous
12/22/20 at 10:35PM UTC
in
The end game with settling this one legally speaking is whether it is an isolated incident and will people corroborate your version of what happened, if so how many people come forward once the due diligence begins. Isolated incidents can be reduced in terms of damage since it can be minimized. If you can prove a pattern of behavior and there are a couple of witness to support this latest incident then your attorney can prove an unsafe and descrimintory workplace which is against the law.
Beyond the legal aspects, as an employee you just need to decide if this is where you want to work. Good luck.
Anonymous
12/22/20 at 11:49PM UTC
in
Report it but be prepared to leave. Retaliation is real but hard to prove. And the company will always defend the offender unfortunately.
timeless beauty
52
12/30/20 at 7:30PM UTC
in
Exactly!
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:03PM UTC
in
I 100% agree. I know if I report it, I will have to be prepared to leave. The issue is that I've been trying to leave for years and can't get out. Something always comes up (health, relocation, family matters, projects that take up all my time, etc.) For 2021, I am making this a priority!! Thank you!
Anonymous
12/23/20 at 8:44PM UTC
in
Yes, I have experienced abuse, blatant sabotage, inappropriate sexist remarks and as I got older ageist remarks that were back-handed compliments such as, "Wow! You really look great 'for your age'!"
When I thought I was finding errors in the organization's finance department incorrectly posting in our accounts--including missing revenue entries that totaled thousands of dollars--I was targeted. This was an organization.
When I had a boss that I found passed out over the steering wheel of her car with the car running, the smell of alcohol everywhere--a boss that never showed up for work for over a year--and I went to HR for help, I was referred to EAP and was told that it was because I had a problem with my manager!!! This was a different organization.
At yet another organization, I placed employees at companies. My boss tasked me with auditing whether we were in compliance with the contracts with the employer organizations insofar as educational and criminal record preferences. Some organizations would take employees no matter what their education or criminal record histories were. Others specified. I found over 100 blatant instances where the account managers knowingly placed people in jobs that if the employer organization knew would have been a breach of contract matter. I also also tasked with checking our I9s and found that one of the account managers was placing people who had falsified the document--the account manager completed the I9s. What happened? I realized that the manager asked me to do the audits because she needed a fall person as she didn't want to be the "bad" person to the employees. What happened to me? I was let go as I was "not a good fit."
I am finding that this appears to be everywhere anymore. I am telling you. It was not this way in the past. If people or organizations did this type of stuff, they were held accountable--not the person who was following the law, company policy, everything we were taught about leadership, working, etc.
How are these types of people getting into power in the first place and more importantly, how are they staying in the power?????
When I brought bill-padding (fraud) to yet another organization's attention, I was targeted.
And, every time in all these organizations, it was because I was "not a team player." Nope, I don't and won't play on the unethical, let's skirt company policies and the laws team, not now, not ever. It takes a lot more energy to figure out how to break laws/policies, etc., and get away with it than to do it right and move on to the next project. Why don't companies realize this? Also, this type of stuff causes brain-drains which costs a lot of money and the constant turnover results in higher costs in training, mitigating the errors new employees make as they are in the learning curve, etc.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 4:58PM UTC
in
Thank you so much for your post. I had to quit my beloved job of 10 years after being unable to endure the bully in my office any longer. I've had similar experiences and have asked those same questions. Mostly, "Why do these horrible liars, cheaters, and abusers keep getting promoted?" I believe the business world began prioritizing making money above all things in the 1980's when it became okay for Wall Street to raid employees' pension plans to increase profits. Big companies began to treat employees like dirt and then tell them, "it's just business." There is so much pressure to satisfy stockholders that many employees will slowly bend the rules and compromise their integrity so they don't get fired. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to hold anyone accountable because it's eventually become just business as usual. Nowadays, we don't hold anyone accountable for their actions and big companies do whatever they want without penalty and most people just continue to buy their products and services. I have to laugh when I see so many articles on this very board from HR people with titles like, "The Ten Lies I Tell To Job-Seekers" and "The Top Three Lies Employers Tell Their Workers." It wasn't so long ago that getting caught lying was a firing offense, and now people brag in print about their lack of ethics and morals! When did lying become a badge of honor?
I'd love to work for someone with your integrity and skill and intelligence. Please start your own business!
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 6:32PM UTC
in
Yes, people and companies WERE held accountable. Being disgraced WAS something to avoid. Doing "whatever it takes" to make a buck or profit, including making up false credit card account (Well Fargo), entering anything in people's mortgage accounts (Bank of America--it happened in our accounts and I had ALL the documentation to prove it) WAS considered shameful. Squeezing workers' wages, benefits, opportunities for development, promotion and more to make 20% profit instead of ensuring the employees who did the work were awarded WAS not acceptable and dealt with.
Hopefully, the new administration's Secretary of Labor will undo the many things that go against creating healthy communities, strong families, and a just nation. Hopefully, the new secretary of labor will work to ensure that laws, policies, and more are created that do support family values and that do respect and protect workers from systems, policies, laws, etc., that are obviously destructive to our families, our family values, our economy, our communities, our health and wellness, our environment, our national security, and our ability to be a strong nation.
As history has proven over and over, when people--in this case workers--have had enough, they will use their collective talents and power, in the pursuit of restoring ethics, even-handed, just principles. Let's hope that this happens soon and lasts for a very, very, very long time.
And, thank you for suggesting I open my own company, former colleagues, former staff I have supervised, and former students, interns, etc., have suggested the same thing. If and until then, I shall continue to use my talent to bail and row as we change course to more stable waters.
Take care.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 6:56PM UTC
in
Oh my gosh, now I want you to work for the federal government in the Department of Labor! You will already be busy with your own business (!) but I know you can do both!
Thanks again for giving me a much needed boost in attitude and for restoring my faith in the workforce. What you have written is a great gift for all of us going into the new year. Please keep posting so we can all be reminded that there is hope that we can bring back integrity, responsibility, and accountability. Happy 2021!
MYOWNBOSS
73
12/27/20 at 1:56PM UTC
in
I worked in HR and was targeted by my own team so I don’t know how well you can trust your own HR dept. I was seeing unethical decisions being made and asking questions like, why and how did we make this decision? I was told to get on board and written up for not being a team player. Next thing I know, I was terminated. I have never been in this place in my entire career. These people should be ashamed of themselves and I hope karma bites them hard! If I knew without a doubt I could win a lawsuit I would go after them in a heartbeat, but they know enough to cover their bases. I have never felt such shame and defeat in my life, even though it’s completely irrational and I know I didn’t deserve what happened, it still hurts like hell. My plan is to rise above and come out of this stronger than ever and more confident than ever because that is one thing I allowed them to do was make me feel like I was completely incompetent and it wasn’t me...it was them!!!! A$$holes!!
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 4:10PM UTC
in
Never trust HR. Ever.
MYOWNBOSS
73
12/27/20 at 5:01PM UTC
in
It's unfortunate because I have been a very ethical and fair HR professional for the last 15 years and to be treated this way by my own team blows my mind. Most of the time, HR makes the ethical recommendations and the leadership either listens or they don't. You can't always blame HR, we get our hands tied but in this situation they did it to one of their own and took me by complete surprise. To say trusting others is going to take time is an understatement....these people have scarred me but as I said earlier, I will come out stronger because I will not let them hold me down any longer!
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:07PM UTC
in
Over 13 years with my company...it is so frustrating! Thank you for your feedback!
Monica Lynn SadlerFashion Designer in New Jersey
51
12/27/20 at 4:12PM UTC
in
I sent an email to all four owners and my boss, with a copy to HR. In it I stated what I had endured, seen, heard, and was extremely specific as to what had happened, mentioning all those who witnessed each event. In the email, I stated that I was uncomfortable and what I had witnessed was harassment, unfair, and unprofessional. I sent the email on a Friday and Monday morning; the primary two owners came down from NY to have a conversation with me, the accused, and several other people. Later, I found out that upon receipt of the email, they immediately contacted their host of corporate attorneys because I used the words, "hostile work environment". The attorneys told them to get the matter resolved immediately, or this would-be big trouble for them. And yes, I began job hunting and left shortly thereafter. In my case, the woman who was the problem was at one time HR and had been demoted by the owners. It was my understanding that she had some information on them, so she hadn't been fired for fear of retaliation. Corporate politics. I can't tell you what to do, as that is a personal decision. But I am praying that God will grant you wisdom.
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:10PM UTC
in
Thank you Monica! Fellow Jersey girl here. I've got a hostile person that gets away with everything she does. Excuse after excuse while she belittles and is simply rude to those around her. Like I said, I work in HR as does she and all the "powers that be" are aware of her behavior but nothing gets done. I too hope God grants me some wisdom & peace!
Monica Lynn SadlerFashion Designer in New Jersey
51
01/16/21 at 6:09AM UTC
in
You’re very welcome, neighbor! I’m glad it helped. So sad things like this happen. I will be praying for you.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 4:19PM UTC
in
Bullying and workplace abuse is a management and leadership problem. Poor management and leadership allows these behaviors to become pervasive in any organization. Show me a leader or manager with strong moral boundaries and standards, I will show an organization without this type of behavior. It all starts and ends with leadership. You can rest assured that all the stories shared above, the leadership team encouraged or covered up the bad behavior. They are the ones to blame. My advice: hit it where it hurts. Their pockets. Lawyer up, settle the case for a nice amount of cash, and move on! Giver yourself time to heal, before jumping into the next job.
Anonymous
12/28/20 at 1:21AM UTC
in
Exactly the problem in my case outlined below. Managers stick their heads in the sand if the bully is important to someone up the chain. I often wondered if these managers truly believed that taking the bully's side would result in a promotion down the road. I was amazed by how much my bully manager got away with, as I wasn't the only one she bullied. There are plenty of managers who are more worried about being liked rather than doing the right thing.
One more thing-- it's a top-down issue. If the CEO/president/director is a jerk and fosters a negative, Machiavellian workplace, that's what you're going to have. The top leader sets the tone.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 7:07PM UTC
in
I work for a household name, Fortune 500 company, and HR is pretty much worthless. Employees can't talk to them - they have to leave a message and hope for a response. When they do give a response, they make a lot of promises, but don't actually fulfill any of them, etc.
We had an employee who frequently angered customers, aggressively pushed their work onto their coworkers, hid from customers so that they could play with their phone all day, was willfully obstinate and insubordinate, came to work when they felt like it and left when they wanted (despite the company having VERY strict rules on punctuality), was quite possibly a straight up pathological liar, and who constantly tried to manipulate and pick fights with other employees - the more senior the position, the worse the behavior towards them.
The manager was well aware of all of this, but every time they tried to write up this employee, HR would say that the employee's actions weren't bad enough to warrant a write up.
Doing drugs at work? Not bad enough.
Leaving 2 hours into an 8 hour shift just because? Not bad enough.
Not showing up at all with no warning, blatantly lying about a medical appointment and having a friend text the manager pretending to be someone with authority in an attempt to excuse them for the rest of the day (we knew the number that the text came from)? Not bad enough.
This employee would have been fired YEARS ago, but HR wouldn't let us write them up, and every branch in the area knew about this employee, so no one would take them. We were stuck.
When I started collecting information to build a bullying case against this employee, the system scanned my e-mail and flagged one of them. HR was QUICK to contact me, citing a 0 tolerance policy on bullying, but then nitpicked what bullying "actually meant". Harassment was not bullying. Harassing all employees instead of just 1 (despite the extra harassment that I, personally, received on a daily basis) wasn't bullying, etc.
Also, just for the record, I almost didn't get to start this job all those years ago, because the last hiring form to be filled out had to be done by my manager on my 1st day of work, and HR wouldn't let me start my 1st day until that form was filled out. It took 3 weeks of arguing with them for them to understand the problem with that situation.
HR is useless to the everyday worker.
Anonymous
12/27/20 at 7:07PM UTC
in
Unfortunately I have found HR is there to support management (was actually told this by an HR representative), not employees. I have never had any resolutions to any management difficulties when I engaged HR. Sad, but true. Am in a bullying, discriminatory situation right now and don't where or whom to turn to.
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:12PM UTC
in
I agree with you...they support management. I wish you the best of luck in your current situation. I've got some issues with that as well.
renee2
179
12/27/20 at 9:14PM UTC
in
Most painful learning of my career -- HR is there for the company, not you. If they think you have a lawsuit brewing they will close in and protect the company (and even the abuser) at all costs. I have been bullied at work (it sucks) and when I reported it to my boss and HR, they made my life a living hell. I ended up choosing to leave rather than continue the abuse and it turned out to be one of the best career decisions of my life. I hope this will work out in a similar way for you.
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:13PM UTC
in
Thank you! I am trying my best to get out and start fresh. I am on a mission for 2021!
renee2
179
01/15/21 at 8:59PM UTC
in
You go, girl! I'm in your corner.
Anonymous
12/28/20 at 1:15AM UTC
in
I got out of a terrible situation this fall. I endured a bully supervisor for well over a year. I had more experience in our field than she did, and rather than use me to bolster her section, she turned on me. She started to pull projects and funding from me, micromanage, turn minor time card issues into major crises that required top leadership involvement, and gossiped like Perez Hilton. She was incompetent and a liar and everyone know it, but for whatever reason management supported her. She caused our organization some trouble but she was, and probably still is, very important to a handful of people, so they continue to defend her.
I actually loved my job and had planned to stay there for several years, but once I realized that she could do no wrong and that my strong performance record meant nothing to management when it came to my supervisor's happiness and fragile ego, I knew it was time to get out. It was a real shame because I did not want to leave at all. I waited until the time was right and I found something new I could live with for a while. I'm not happy, still angry, but in the end, I no longer have to wake up dreading another unpredictable day. Sometimes I think I could have fought it out and withstood a few more months. I have to remind myself then that things were NOT going to change.
And yes, as everyone else here has said, HR is pretty much useless. Even HR turned on me when I had a valid complaint. Again, my supervisor was a skilled liar who had friends in high places. Perhaps HR was scared of her, too. My supervisor and her protectors only backed off when I threatened legal action-- I think they were used to bullied staffers running for the hills rather than fighting.
Anonymous
12/30/20 at 11:30PM UTC
in
My HR rep was powerless, and could not help with a bullying, threatening supervisor. She wanted to help but was in fear of her job and had not support to get anything done. It was pointless. She would even have me meet her in the bathroom to talk and check in because the supervisor and his special VP friend had cameras installed and if they saw you talking to certain people would come out and ask why you were wasting work time or interrupt. The bathrooms were the only spaces that you could "meet" without being interrupted. The cameras were a result of their affair and the increasing paranoia of the female involved since she was convinced everyone was talking about her...
Anonymous
01/15/21 at 8:15PM UTC
in
My HR rep = same. Completely powerless! She gives me advice but that's not what I need. I have learned that I need to be my own advocate.
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