How dangerous is "at-will-employment"?
Sometimes I have to call a spade a spade
To be honest. The entire concept of at-will employment is the freedom to allow corporations to dispose of employees for any reason or no reason at all. Many times these reasons are malicious. At the end of the day, regardless on merit, they have the power to essentially blacklist anyone they deem "unsuitable", through the act of termination by tarnishing your record with it, making this harder and harder to recover from each time. This proxy-discrimination is a designated effort to legally empower those that want certain types of people to be in demand and certain types of people to always be jobless. I been there. It has taken me over a decade of underemployment, unemployment, poverty and homelessness to finally come to the realization that its actually LESS risky being self employed, an entrepreneur or in any position where arbitrary rules set by a "manager" doesnt have you walking on eggshells. Far too often, I've seen people lose jobs because of the ethical, technical and emotional shortcomings of their supervisors.
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18 Comments
18 Comments
Sweet Caroline
2.39k
11/17/20 at 6:10PM UTC
At Will also allows the employee flexibility to pursue new offers. I had a contract at a former job which meant I had to stick it out for 12 months (renewed for 3 terms) before seeking more work and if I wanted to make a change or ask to switch to at will I was basically advertising that I was looking for a new job. I feel like there is no real win to either scenario. When you have tenure or civil service protections you end up with content workers who don't do their best because they know they can't be fired.
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1 Reply
Ehryn Kramer
108
Freelance small retail market consultant
11/17/20 at 6:20PM UTC
Yes. Very true.
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Kate B
55
Technical Project Manager/Scientist in Missouri
11/17/20 at 9:12PM UTC
I hear you! A local employer is infamous for promoting certain types of workers, and I, and several other colleagues of color have been demoted or otherwise penalized for not 'playing ball' or lining up with the status quo, even despite previous glowing yearly reviews. I fortunately don't work there anymore. Self employment is an important resource to empower and escape the many structures supporting systems of privilege.
User edited comment on 11/17/20 at 9:17PM UTC
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Valerie Craig
21
Conservation Leader in Washington DC
11/17/20 at 9:18PM UTC
I think it's also important to recognize that 'at will' employment is the standard in the U.S., not just for corporations. Every non-profit I have worked for has operated on 'at will' terms. Many other countries do not allow this kind of employment, for many of the important reasons you have articulated and also to ensure that employees have a modicum of security. But, as Kate B points out, 'at will' can be an advantage for employees on occasion too, enabling the employee to pursue other opportunities on their timeline. I think it's important to explore the protections that the employer offers beyond the type of employment, such as severance (or similar). Also know that you can still pursue legal recourse for termination based on discrimination, even if employed 'at will.'
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Carmelita Ervin
153
Implementation Consultant
11/17/20 at 9:20PM UTC
I live in GA which is an employment at will state. Although employees can be terminated at any time without any reason, explanation, or advance warning, it also means that an employee can quit at any time for any or no reason at all. This type of job employment is gaining in popularity because of the flexibility it offers for both employee and employer. You must be aware that wages, benefits, and PTO can be changed without notice. But then you, as an employee, can change jobs without notice. Even though I think this type of employment offers less protections, the alternative is a union and a collective bargaining agreement. We still have rights under at-will such as unemployment insurance and anti-discrimination laws. It just all depends on how you look at it. During times like these, it would be nice if employees had more employment rights, but that is not the case.
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1 Reply
Alyssa N. Batchelor, M.S.
55
I put the lit in politics
11/17/20 at 10:13PM UTC
An employee can quit at anytime for any reason anyways. They can't force you to continue to work there.
2 Replies
Stephanie F
129
Senior HR Professional in Recruitment
11/18/20 at 3:52AM UTC
I think this references more to being held to an employment contract that requires you to stay until it ends or pay back funds if you break it. This is something that some employees have within a company.
Other than that, leaving at anytime without the standard 2 week notice is at will also.
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sandmanstone
119
11/22/20 at 7:13PM UTC
To add to Stephanie's note below:
Some employees have contracts, and if they leave before the contract ends, it can result in limitations in getting new jobs, reduction of compensation owed, even penalties some times that the employee must pay back.
In some cases, even if you don't have a contract, you may have to pay back relocation fees, medical expenses that were covered in HSA funds, training costs, education reimbursements and you may not receive any outstanding commission or bonus depending on your company guidelines. As well, if you quit, you are not owed 2 weeks of pay, you could be asked to leave immediately without pay. So, not one can force you to stay, but there can be penalties you need to pay to leave.
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Alyssa N. Batchelor, M.S.
55
I put the lit in politics
11/17/20 at 10:12PM UTC
I agree. At will employment is dangerous and only serves and protects employers. It masquerades as protecting employees, but it does nothing of the sort.
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Emily K
26
11/17/20 at 10:13PM UTC
At will is standard across many industries, but it is a two-way street. It does feel protective of the corporation, but it also allows employees the freedom to leave at will as well.
1 Reply
Deb Strickland
169
Digital Marketing | Analytics & Tech Nomad
11/17/20 at 10:45PM UTC
The at-will laws are written for the corporation, it says nothing about when/how an employee can leave. Unless a person has a contract (rare for most jobs in the US), they can leave at any time and without notice - that's just be courteous, it's not required. Executives typically have contracts that state all sorts of things but that's not who we are talking about. They can get fired and still get paid $$$$$ to leave.
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Nancy Janet
20
HR CPG Retail Service Professional
11/17/20 at 10:13PM UTC
Technically yes at will employment can be terminated with no reason at any time. In practice, the concept is often successfully legally challenged as at will was inappropriately invoked after performance issues had already been discussed. If the employer is mixing "I'm invoking at will, but you've been late a lot" it opens up lots of possibilities for litigation by the employee for having been treated unfairly. If the " late a lot" has been in play then the employer's performance management policy comes into play as well as any types of potential discriminatory actions that may occur as a result.
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Karisa Karmali
604
Founder of Self-Love and Fitness
11/17/20 at 10:32PM UTC
Most roles are at-will...
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Deb Strickland
169
Digital Marketing | Analytics & Tech Nomad
11/17/20 at 10:42PM UTC
Dangerous? I wouldn't word it that way. The US has some of the worst employment laws in the world.
49 states have at-will employment laws. You can be let go for any reason or no reason. Yes, you can litigate but it's highly unlikely you have more $$$ or lawyers than your employer.
The few high profile cases you see that get attention are a super tiny number of actual cases of the same type that never make it court. And even if a lawyer picks it up, nearly all end without a trial because companies don't want it made public.
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Alexandria Wagner
131
Senior Director of Web Engineering
11/18/20 at 3:32AM UTC
Like Georgia, Nevada where I live is an at-will state. I've never felt unprotected as most companies that have offices around the country operate based on the laws in the state with the tightest restrictions in which they operate (which is usually California).
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galros
745
Engineering Manager for food manufacturing site
11/18/20 at 10:16AM UTC
Outside the US here, but not at-will employment thank God. I have a permanent contract which means if I want to leave my position after my probation period, I give X months notice (currently 3 months) in writing and I can go. Very often this notice period is negotiable as well, depending on the position. This would be the norm in Europe. The situation in the States sounds horrendous to me!
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Elizabeth Gough-Gordon
46
Looking for new opportunities in NYC and remote
11/18/20 at 2:42PM UTC
Many positions that are covered by collective bargaining agreements through labor unions protect employees in these very instances. If others in your company are also frustrated with these kind of policies, organize your workplace! https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3md3v/how-to-organize-your-workplace-without-getting-caught
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DeLisa Simon-Dawkins, MBA, MT(ASCP)
89
Consultant, Business Faculty, Market Strategist
11/19/20 at 7:36PM UTC
At will employment has "angle" to it. While the employer has the "power" to dismiss ( at will), what most do not understand is that they still must operate under the guise of employment law. So, they must be extremely careful as to how this perceived power is executed as it could trigger payment of unemployment and / or federal charges with EEOC. Working in at "at will" state for the majority of my career, this was never revealed... just learned AND experienced.
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