Defining on call pay.

Anonymous

November 29,2023 at 7:18PM UTC

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Defining on call pay.

Hi all. Looking for some advise here.

This is my first job in IT and the first time I’ve experienced working in an on call environment. I feel that I am entitled to on call pay and here is why.

Here is some background.

I work at a start up company (WFH) and am on a small team of 3 plus our boss. we go on a rotation every three weeks for a entire week for anything that comes up that’s considered urgent and after hours. Urgent requests or urgent pages are pretty infrequent. But when they do come up I step in, handle the situation, and I log that time in my time card. I’ve been able to do this mostly from my personal cell phone (also being utilized as an approved work phone). Last week I was on call and in the evening I received a page while at happy hour with friends. I acknowledged the message and in this case it was urgent (one of the main systems was down) but it wasn’t anything that I could necessarily do to fix it (that falls on another dept). I sounded the alarm to engage the correct depts and also let my boss know. My boss then asked me to look something up and I let them know that I did not have my laptop with me and that I was responding from my phone.

The next week during our team meeting the boss brought up some ground rules for our on call time. 1) Making sure we acknowledge all requests within the hour & 2) making sure we bring our laptops with us if we are going to be out and about. At this point I feel it is completely unfair to ask us to be on standby plus be within a radius of 30 min from our “office” aka our home/have our laptop with us unless we are receiving on call pay. Things like going out to a bar or a concert would be totally out of the question Or maybe even a long drs apt for those 7 days would all be things I can’t do if we are working under those ground rules. I have another friend who does the same thing I do in IT and he is paid On Call time. Although he takes inbound calls and I do not. So he is at his desk all weekend but gets paid that entire time.

Should I not be entitled to On Call Pay with this scenario? Is that just how on call works and I’m totally unaware? Can someone with experience in the IT space or labor laws weigh in?

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maria roseNovember 29,2023 at 7:48PM UTC
Obviously, you don’t understand the total concept of being “On-Call”. It’s has been used in multiple fields of work that require the worker who is on that schedule to be available for any all work related tasks—in you job IT support. . That means that you don’t fully control your time and activity during those scheduled hours/days. You don’t necessarily have to be pin the workplace but you do have to have access to all work needed equipment ( as in the example given—laptop designated for work duties besides just your phone) . Just because you were able to go to a “Happy Hour “ location during your “On-Call “ schedule doesn’t mean you are entitled to feel that you are being deprived of your free personal time-which should occur during your non-OnCall shifts when you’re not the emergency OnCall person.. You are questioning whether On-Call duty has a cut-off time period like a regular 8 hour work shift. I highly suggest that you read-read your employee handbook for the detailed explanation of how “On Call “ hours are paid and your expected productivity hours and when you hand over the “On-call” duty to the next scheduled “on-Call person.
Now if this type of work setup schedule is not your preferred method of work—you give the impression that you don’t like to be available past a certain number of hours/per diem , you need to consider changing your job position to a more formative schedule with set hours that don’t involve you being “on-call “ for any emergency services.. You may be in the wrong IT position.
AnonymousNovember 29,2023 at 7:54PM UTC
This seems very very new to you. Company driven on what they expect, I would suggest learning this. Caution on feeling 'entitled'. good luck.
surfnwriteDecember 1,2023 at 1:35AM UTC
You sound like you're in management. Are you okay with not being paid to work, or is it just okay for your employees to be treated that way?
AnonymousDecember 1,2023 at 12:58PM UTC
Is it okay to accept a job without knowing and understanding or asking what hours expectations are? And no, I'm not, but have the professional understanding to learn about what is going to be asked of me whether I'm in a salary or hourly position. Is it okay to not make sure you own the ownership of understanding these things? On Call, you wouldn't ask further questions? Does this get paid outside of salary expectations? Does the hours accrue to a certain amount to then be afforded additional pto? We need to start owning our decisions. Get it in writing, to not allow things have their perception of 'is this just me'? Come on people, do better, be better.
surfnwriteDecember 3,2023 at 4:01AM UTC
Your post did not say any of this, however. Now you are making a different argument.
AnonymousDecember 3,2023 at 7:05PM UTC
They really aren’t making a different argument trying to explain to multiple level of audiences can be taxing.
Heather (she/her)November 29,2023 at 9:25PM UTC
Being on call definitely means that you should be ready and able to fully work during the times you're on call, but I agree that it's unreasonable to ask for this unless you're receiving appropriate pay to work this way. If you're concerned about the legality of it, I'd recommend getting in touch with an employment lawyer.
Clydene HorriganNovember 29,2023 at 10:01PM UTC
I agree with others that being on call requires you to be fully -available to do the work. However, I think you need to find out the on-call payment plan and then decide if it is acceptable to you. If not, you’ll need to look for another role.
Daniel GreeneNovember 29,2023 at 10:50PM UTC
Here are examples of two companies that I provided on-call support:
I was at a company that had a very agreeable on-call program for engineers: one day/weekend on-call rotation, daytime hours only, and it took weeks to rotate around back to me. Engineers did not handle in-bound calls. I also received a phone expense allowance (using my own phone). There were Dev-Ops personnel to handle system issues outside of normal working hours, the system was in the cloud, and very stable. This was very agreeable, easy to work-around, and would not impact my project-schedule beyond a day.
At another company that I was at for many years, we were on-call for an entire week 24-7! Some weeks were very rough but mostly during work hours, projects were impacted unless you worked late to make up :-(. There were other paid teams to support customers directly.
In this job after a re-architecture, the engineers had to pickup a huge share of Dev-Ops because our system was custom built infrastructure, that was true 24-7 support. We received the pride of supporting what the team built.
We were not expected to tote laptops with us, but needed to be able to provide an appropriate level of support/escalation during our on-call, head home to our laptop...
In both jobs, if you could not provide the necessary level of support (e.g. time-off, important night out) then you needed to find someone to trade on-call with. Both jobs were salaried, no expectation of extra pay for anything.
Getting paid to sit at a desk all weekend is scheduled work, not 24 hour On-Call, even if he is free to multi-task at home. Hourly paid positions would require to be paid for all hours worked. Check your local labor laws.
Advice:
Setting expectations and ground-rules are good, as well as fluidity and exceptions handling. We had good infrastructure apps to support on-call such as PagerDuty and multiple teams, responsibilities. Go to bed early when on call, skip late nights out. I had to leave my phone on ring all day and night for on-call...
If the support impacts your health and quality of life beyond acceptable, then time to consider other jobs and re-evaluate how bad it really is versus compensation.
It is a startup, are you all-in? Are you just getting paid, or building a career, resume? Where do you want to work next? Do you want to be the goto person, expand your knowledge, increase your value to the boss, company, career, and how do you want to be recognized and compensated? Discuss with your co-workers, and manager in a supportive manner.
AnonymousNovember 29,2023 at 11:20PM UTC
That's how my husband's on call works. He is on call for his program responsibilities 24/7/365, with no additional pay. Three weeks ago we needed to return to the east coast for a funeral. His co-workers paged him in the middle of the wake, so he had to leave and some of those relatives he hasn't seen in 10 years since we moved. He takes his work computer EVERYWHERE- on vacation, to personal outings, wakes and funerals (obvi) and it's expected. To my mind, he isn't paid half enough for this idiocy. It's how on call works, practically everywhere that I've seen.
surfnwriteDecember 1,2023 at 1:33AM UTC
I would not put up with that and I hope he's looking elsewhere for work.
AnonymousNovember 30,2023 at 12:20AM UTC
My experience in IT was that we were paid for each on-call call, even if we were on salary. Sometimes, it was an hourly bonus, others a fixed amount per call regardless of how long we worked. It was part of my salary when I worked as a chaplain resident and had to do an overnight shift.
Later, when I worked as a hospice chaplain, I was put on a rotation with the social workers and other chaplains for 24/7 coverage and was compensated at the hourly rate (plus overtime if it pushed me over the 40-hour/week limit. The more significant issue here is the labor laws for the state where you live when you consider overtime/on-call pay. The best place to figure that out is with your state's Department of Labor. Most people responding here are not well-versed in the labor laws of all states, and those that are would most likely not respond as it is not appropriate for them to do so unless they know where you live.
One IT job, since I was the only SME that could handle specific issues, being on call 24/7 was not doable for me, so I decided to leave. When I was on an on-call rotation with others (healthcare situation), I would be careful about scheduling, and if I had an event (concert in which I was performing, for example), I would trade the week with someone else. I once was at an affair with a singing group and got paged. I had to leave because I was the on-call person. I explained the situation to the people I was with, and they understood. I was sad to have missed part of what I was doing, but I had committed to my job, and that came first. The event was voluntary. If it were a concert or a mandatory event, I would have swapped the on-call week with one of the others.
AnonymousNovember 30,2023 at 1:43PM UTC
You’re right. You would not be able to go to a bar or a concert if it fell during your on call week. Now, certainly for things like needed medical care/emergencies or special events, you would need to connect with your boss about coverage and PTO if you needed the time off.
Sarah BojorquezNovember 30,2023 at 1:47PM UTC
Honestly, it depends on your contract. What was laid out to you when you were hired? Ethically, yes you should get paid but if you are salaried and you accepted a role with an on-call requirement without compensation you might be out of luck.
BarbaraNovember 30,2023 at 2:18PM UTC
You make excellent points however, you are bound by the terms of your contract. Since it’s a start up and your boss seems reasonable , this is something that can be negotiated. It sounds like an idea who’s time has come and may not be implemented immediately but eventually.
Tasha PattersonNovember 30,2023 at 2:48PM UTC
I do not work in IT, however with my on-call, it’s for a week. We get paid standby pay which is equal to minimum wage, or something like that, we also get paid our hourly rate or overtime when we respond to calls and do work. I make sure to have my laptop, work phone, and a notepad with me (on-call bag). Just last night, I went to pick up my mother-in-law from work and had to take her to the grocery store. I was within 10 minutes of my home. As I was about to go into the store, I received a call, and I had to take the call then and there. I was able to place them on a quick hold to set up my work station in my car, but I completed part of my role until I was able to hang up, drive home, and complete the other tasks. I work for the government. Being that you’re working at a startup company, they may be willing to tweak some rules to retain good quality workers, unless it’s a financial barrier for this company at this time.
Tasha PattersonNovember 30,2023 at 2:49PM UTC
I’m also in a salary position
AnonymousNovember 30,2023 at 9:44PM UTC
On call-means on call and that you should reasonably be able to respond to the situation by any means necessary, which would include your laptop. The compensation for the call time would have been negotiated when you joined the company.
surfnwriteDecember 1,2023 at 1:30AM UTC
No way in hell would I put up with that situation. Of course you are compensated when on call! I could see if you were a partner in the company or something, but if not, how absurd!
AnonymousDecember 1,2023 at 1:47PM UTC
Assuming you are in the US, are you non exempt or exempt? If you're salaried/exempt, then it's up to each company how they handle on call rotation - including the expected SLAs, and there are no guarantees that you will get on call pay. It really varies in IT - there's not a set standard for salaried employees on call. You can also double check your state/local labor laws, but generally speaking if you're an exempt employee and you don't like the on call conditions your only options are to fight to get them changed or get a different job.
RhondaDecember 1,2023 at 2:02PM UTC
I have about 30 engineers who work for me in IT. We rotate the schedule weekly. We pay a courtesy fee of $200 for the week, and then time and half for calls they take. We use a "start/stop" app to keep up with the time. We require a 30-minute response to a customer's call. That allows you to "go on with your life" and run errands, etc. But, I do know that it does limit what some guys are willing to do the weeks they are on calls. Some don't want to leave the house in anticipation of a call. Others have been known to take motorcycle trips with a hot spot and their laptop in a bag on their bike! My only "rule" is that we communicate with the customer within half an hour of them leaving us a message. It does not mean we "fix" the issue within 30 minutes. Like you mentioned, many times the on-call person has to bring in specialized skill sets to fix the problem. In all technology companies I know, not being on call does not mean that a teammate might not call you for help. The on-call person cannot handle every possible issue that could come up.
There are many advantages to a start-up company. But being flexible is required. If that is not for you, you may look for a more established IT company that has more people in the rotation. Every IT company I know requires on call. And, if you are in growth mode, it will get better, and you are on the ground floor, so you can grow with them!
Terrie McWhorterDecember 1,2023 at 3:11PM UTC
On call and stand-by are two different things. Your friend is at the office (or at least sitting at his desk) you are out and about enjoying life. Basically available. I work for the government and consider myself available 24/7. I may get a call on the weekend and I document it on my time card and receive either Comp Time or Over Time depending on what I want. Ask to see your companies master agreement and discuss it with an open mind with your leadership. Best of luck.
AnonymousDecember 1,2023 at 4:59PM UTC
"I took a job in an industry where high salary and no oncall pay is the overwhelmingly common thing but I deserve to be paid extra because I do my job and want to drink" IN WHAT WORLD. THE ENTITLEMENT
Xianny NDecember 1,2023 at 5:47PM UTC
On-call is standard practice in every tech startup I have worked at and everyone I know who works in tech.
I have discussed extra pay on various teams but it's never happened.
There are differences across teams but the mainstays are:
* respond within a set SLA, usually <5min
* be able to work at your full capacity i.e. have your laptop. if you can do everything you need to do on your phone, then you don't need your laptop. otherwise, you do.
* be responsible for arranging coverage if you must be unavailable
You get used to bringing your laptop around with you. You can bring a backpack to a concert or out with friends. Most teams have a practice of swapping shifts to cover things like dr's appts.
I go climbing 3-4 days a week, when I'm on call, my laptop is in a locker and my phone is on me. I ask a teammate to cover me for 90 mins for my weekly swim class.
I also hated on-call and wanted extra comp the first time it was thrust upon me, because my team didnt have a rotation when i joined and it was not presented as part of the job duties. I think it should have been introduced in a better way but really it's necessary to have an on-call rotation, and it's not practical to pay a meaningful amount because on-call is not really supposed to be a lot of work - your team should aim to minimize the number of incidents so that on-call is pretty uneventful. it sounds like your rotation is generally pretty quiet so I'll assume things are going ok there.
I've instituted a few practices to make on-call more humane, perhaps you can suggest them to your manager if any catch your fancy?
* top priority - incidents are treated as unusual, we should avoid having them as far as possible
* weekly on-call retro where we discuss how to tune noisy alerts or move alerts to other rotations (if you really could do NOTHING for the one that went off for you, shouldn't the alert be on the other depts rotation?)
* weekly retro also used for discussing any pain points or improvements ppl have for on-call
* people are encouraged to swap coverage and ask for coverage, its not frowned upon implicitly or explicitly to ask to swap hours
* if you cover a real incident that disrupts your life (outside biz hrs, takes more than half an hour, up to individual discretion really), you get the next day off
* over the holidays, we suspend the on-call schedule and change to a daily rotation so no one is stuck with the whole holidays. we run a doodle poll asking people to mark "available, only-if-necessary, absolutely not available" for the last two weeks of the year and try to respect their preferences. i have noticed that the juniors are much more free with their "absolutely not available", but whatever. i think being oncall is also harder for them because of less experience so i dont grudge them that.
Tara DixonDecember 1,2023 at 8:36PM UTC
Wow
Xianny NDecember 1,2023 at 11:12PM UTC
yeah, hm, I wrote this on my phone, didn't realize FGB doesn't support formatting.