Need some advice on how to navigate my toxic female boss with scarcity mindset.

38 Comments

1. Deb AllenOctober 2,2023 at 2:45PM UTC

   Been there, done that. Unfortunately this kind of behavior (tied completely to their self valuation) is unlikely to change. Since you have visibility to male leadership encouraging this behavior, that is the sign you need to accept the need for you to make your own change. And the VP from my own experience is now a SR VP controlling departments she has zero expertise or experience in, and claiming to be the reason everything that works is working.

2. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 5:26PM UTC

   I learned the hard way about the truism, "It's a feature, not a bug."

3. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 4:44PM UTC

   Time to look for another job.
   It quite common to Fail Up and she has mastered that strategy.

   This will not change. She will not get called out or derailed. She has the power, support and authority.

   You do not have the ability to fight her so face reality for your sanity.

   Make the best of things, support her, stay out of her way and keep your head down while you search for a better position. Sometimes it's best to admit defeat so you can move on.

4. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 4:47PM UTC

   Document everything (not just taking notes, but emails to her and her boss and to colleagues, which you bcc: to your personal email, recordings if legal, and anything that can be used in litigation).

   You won't get anywhere with her or those men, and if your issue is primarily with her, there's no legal risk to them undermining your career.

   Polish up that resume, keep your head down, do something outside of work that demonstrates your competencies, and make an escape as soon as you can!

5. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 6:28PM UTC

   Just got out of a similar situation myself. Misogynistic boss who promotes women and then undermines and bullies us. She was fine to me until I got a promotion, then I guess she saw me as a threat and made it clear from day 1 that I was disliked. She was petty, exclusionary, undermined me constantly in front of the staff I manage, and provided me with zero guidance or support. I thrived in spite of her efforts, and she still gave me no public thanks or gratitude. The male leadership above her were distant and didn't seem to notice. She had worked with them in the office, and I joined as a work from home worker. She was promoted 8 years ago, I have only been promoted for 8 months and don't know the higher ups like she does. I had a colleague who made a complaint and her concerns were brushed aside, so I didn't fancy risking it with them. I made the decision to leave. As I was a great worker, it has really f*cked the department and she even seemed quite regretful. It has meant that I had to go back to my previous role, but I'd rather not deal with the stress of that and find other advancement opportunities in the future. Misogynistic, woman-hating female bosses are the worst because they will directly sabotage you and bring you down. Very rare that you meet men that obsessive. You may face sexism and hostility from male bosses, but very few that will actively try to derail you.

6. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 6:29PM UTC

   Only you can truly answer if it's time. What is your tolerance level for this BS? What do you gain by staying?

   I was in a somewhat similar but not quite entirely position several years go. I never reported directly to this person; however, long story short, she was a bully, loud, brash, always right even when proven others. I didn't realize that I had been positioned to help her get a promotion. I called out her behaviors and actions multiple times to see nothing done. I was told by a few "in the know" to be patient and eventually she was let go while I stayed. All well and good, but by then I was already over it after seeing what she got away with for so long.

7. AnonymousOctober 2,2023 at 6:43PM UTC

   Really appreciate all the candid thoughts and feedback here. Also disheartening to hear how often this happens.

8. AnonymousOctober 3,2023 at 3:02PM UTC

   If you feel you're nearing a breaking point (and it sounds like it here), then I would suggest starting to look into other opportunities with organizations who would not treat you in this way. If she's undermining and controlling, you may end up doing something that you will regret later and will be a problem for you with any jobs later on. Take the high road, even if it means the road to somewhere else.

9. MislynOctober 3,2023 at 5:43PM UTC

   Working in a close environment with other women is hard. I worked in banking and that was a tuff place to work with a lot of caddy women. For the most part we all got along. Of course there is always one in every group that thinks they are superior. We had a very religious “CFO” that never involved herself in conversations or took part in office parties ect. She had a we’re at work mentality and took everything so serious. Would make comments on how she would pray for us. I was like please do miss goody goody I could use the extra prayers who can’t. I myself feel I’m a religious person but don’t think by being over the top religious that my values and ability to do my job is affected by office chit chat and office parties. She would always say ugh another loud party day how am I supposed to get any work done. My thought was go work in the basement no one wants you and your negativity up here anyway. She was difficult for all the women to get along with but boy did she always get praised for doing such a wonderful job. Moved right to the top negativity and all. Simple fact is some people just know how to get what they want from the right people while making everyone else miserable that have to work with them. It’s not just women I’m not saying that. I’ve had a male boss that was pretty much the same way. There is one at every job. If you are unhappy or feel you are not getting where you need to be move on. Don’t stay somewhere where you question yourself or are miserable.

10. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 12:30PM UTC

    It sounds like you’re describing how most people get promoted. I’m not seeing any feedback that actually has to do with her gender. It sounds like you expect her to be nicer because she is a woman, but she didn’t get the VP job that way in the first place soooo…..it sounds like it’s a toxic work environment period. Having a good boss is important though. I say if you’re certain this person is holding you back in your career growth then leave.

11. GirlBossanova934974October 4,2023 at 12:36PM UTC

    These sorts of bad behaviors have no monopoly with male or female managers. Unfortunately, this sort of FAIL UP manager is becoming more and more commonplace. These FAIL UP managers succeed because they have the ear of someone much higher up. Usually, this sort of FAIL UP manager preys upon the weak egos of those higher up in the food chain by lavishing non stop praise upon them. What is the best thing to do? It is time to get out of your current job and look elsewhere. If you are fortunate enough to work for a large company, you might look into a TRANSFER. Last but not least, these FAIL UP managers are also experts at something else and that is DESTROYING the organization they are supposed to be supporting. FINANCIAL performance sooner or later goes down the drain so that should be a good motivator for you to pack up and leave..

12. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:43PM UTC

    All of this! I'm dealing with one as well and it is much worse when it's a woman because we want to believe there is a sisterhood. I would argue that women can sometimes be even worse than men. That insecurity drives them to continually attempt to prove themselves. It's almost weaponizing their imposter syndrome.

13. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 12:39PM UTC

    It’s time to leave. If you aren’t seeing a path to grow within the company and your relationship with your boss isn’t one of mutual respect there is something better out there for you!

14. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:03PM UTC

    Going through the same, time to get out!

15. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:24PM UTC

    I am going through this too. It's so toxic. I even went to her manager, and it got twisted around to be my problem. It's time for me to leave. I'm scared but miserable.

16. Marcia SmithOctober 4,2023 at 2:26PM UTC

    Yes - the same thing happened to me. The CEO would not acknowledge that any of my boss's behavior was toxic. There are good jobs and good employers out there - you just have to be ready to take the time and put forward the effort to find them. Jobhunting is exhausting and frustrating - but it is worth it!!!

17. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:53PM UTC

    I went through the exact same thing for years with a jealous, toxic imposter, unqualified, drama instigator, screaming, gaslighting female boss, and with false promises of well deserved promotions while undermining us to others and taking credit for our work, and blocking every transfer request made for me by other departments. She destroyed the careers of so many to save and promote her own. It affected the health of everyone she targeted. I regret everyday that I didn’t leave as soon as we discovered her real agenda and had avoided all the screaming, bullying and abuse. My career would be in a better place now. See if you can get packaged out but search for outside new opportunities first. Don’t bother to stay, all the undermining stays in the minds of people. Although she was finally ousted with a fake retirement, she had already damaged the careers of all who outlasted her and it was best to leave as well.

18. AnonymousOctober 14,2023 at 4:44PM UTC

    This is a 100% accurate description of my former boss at Salesforce, including the destruction she left in her wake, and down to her own eventual exit with a package. It was the first and last time in my career that I worked for an abusive screamer; it's so wild to see someone in a senior leadership role who very obviously can't keep it together yet people just turn a blind eye. By the time she was shown the door, it was too late on all accounts, because those above her had left her in place for so long. This was several years ago but still feels like yesterday. OP needs to get out now. It will never get better and it will definitely get worse - scroll through this thread if there is any question.

19. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:54PM UTC

    The gender of your manager doesn't matter here, nor does it determine whether they are a "good" or "poor" manager, so not sure why you keep calling it out. That said, if your boss is not supportive of your career, then it's time to find one who is. People quit bosses, not jobs.

20. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 1:55PM UTC

    I am the worst BS er. I am honest to a T. It seems like all of our leaders of are great BSers! Ugh!

21. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 2:17PM UTC

    It's time for you to jump ship. You need your boss in order to further your career. If you don't have the backing then your future at the company is very bleak. I've been in this situation before and it is a no win situation. I would suggest that you start networking. Refrain from bad mouthing your boss. I know it will be difficult. Your career will be the only thing that suffers. Start over. Good luck!

22. Marcia SmithOctober 4,2023 at 2:23PM UTC

    Yes - jump ship! I was at a job like this for a year and a half and have now accepted a new job where I am respected for my experience and expertise - and I am treated with respect. Find an employer that values your worth!

23. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 2:24PM UTC

    Run for the door don’t hesitate, in my experience this I’ll not change . For some reason she is liked and they will keep her no matter what

24. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 3:09PM UTC

    I agree jump

    ship but am concerned that you’re saying she’s a bad “female”boss. What the actual heck? She’s a boss. A bad boss. All of the things you are saying are not “female” centric and it’s this kind of language that just keeps the whole stereotypical crap going.

25. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 3:53PM UTC

    Get ready to leave but also make sure you trust your gut about the next position you consider. This kind of thing is more the exception than the norm in corporations and from experience I can say it’s very rare to find someone at senior leadership levels who does not play these games to some degree.

26. AnonymousOctober 6,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    I agree with you ? percent; however, I think you meant it’s more of the norm than the exception…no the other way around.

27. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 4:24PM UTC

    Yep, it’s time to look for greener pastures.

    Everyone in your office knows who she is and how she leads, but it’s clearly better for them to have her in that role. You’ve tried, and you have your answer. Sometimes we need a little push to see what we already know.

28. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 8:30PM UTC

    Depends. If you have a good job and can continue to create your own opportunities, including networking within the company, I don't think it's a bad thing if you stay. On the otherhand, if it is to a point where you can't ignore and it is causing you stress, you need to be realistic about the fact that she is not going to change. If her behavior is negatively affecting your mental health and your job, may be time to jump ship. Best of luck!

29. AnonymousOctober 4,2023 at 11:52PM UTC

    Must be my old boss (giggle). Be careful. These individuals are very smart and will stoop to anything to sit solid in her position and positioning amongst management at her level (who know her but won't go one on one with her) and her seniors. As a DHR I tried everything by the book to get her noticed for her condescending treatment of workers, unprofessionalism at meetings pointing people out to embarrass and her behind closed doors threats and treatment of her senior committee members as well. In one 1-on-1 she included "she didn't like me for no apparent good reason other than", when ask why. Mind you during rallies and standups peers and workers continually gravitated to me. I was secure in my performance. When I couldn't get through to corporate and found myself stressed out to the point of developing anxiety for trying to figure things out; I determined my health was more important. I immediately found another opportunity, in the same industry and guess what ... when asked who I reported to ??? they'd laugh and state they got it. They'd ask interview questions more along the line of how I handled HR issues and challenges met; I'd never disclose her or her tactics. Inappropriate and can backfire. Despite prayer for this person,a year or so later her life took the appropriate turn. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Figure it out. Determine if this fight is worth it.

30. AnonymousOctober 5,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    It's not an easy situation and unfortunately, women continue to hold down other women and try to protect their own position. My advice would be to ask yourself the question: can I navigate the organization to a different role that would allow future career progress? If you think that you are blocked completely from any internal moves, then you should consider looking for your next opportunity and continue to deliver value until your last day. Despite the qualities you are describing, your future employers might ask her for a reference and you do not want her to have any tangible reasons to give you a negative reference. She may still do it but if your performance is acknowledged by other people, you may still be able to mitigate it.

31. AnonymousOctober 5,2023 at 12:49PM UTC

    Agree with the other posters. It doesn’t matter the gender it’s just bad boss behavior. I’d look into leveraging your network to see if there are other internal opportunities. But I’d do this while looking externally as well.

32. AnonymousOctober 5,2023 at 1:27PM UTC

    As you describe your boss, there are plenty of other women out there who act like this. I decided in what I thought was my last position before retirement, that I did not want to be around a person like that. I made a flip remark to her one day knowing she wouldn't put up with it (nothing nasty, kinda innocent). Sure enough, I got a nice severance package and her out of my hair. I moved on and found a much better situation without the female narcissist to deal with. I am here until retirement and happy. Hindsight, it is not worth putting up with.

33. AnonymousOctober 5,2023 at 1:47PM UTC

    It seems like you tired everything. She won't change. She has no incentive, what she is doing is working for her. Not knowing your industry or skill set I don't know how challenging it is to find another job but I hope you can access your network and find something amazing for you!

34. Rosa GoesOctober 5,2023 at 5:22PM UTC

    You are better off looking for another job. Or you can transfer to another office with a new boss. As long as leadership thinks she's doing a good job and it sounds like they like her too, your future growth potential will be limited.

35. Claudia Gabriela Cano SauzaOctober 5,2023 at 7:06PM UTC

    My advice is that you better look for a new job. I experienced the same as you, right last September I left the law office for which I worked, because my boss, a woman who only was in charge of making me feel I had no value and that my work wasn't enough. That was false, I have a lot of experience and studies, but she is the only one who wants to shine and does not allow anyone with experience and preparation in that office, because she is an egocentric person, a pathetic leader, as I am bilingual and as she saw that I am not a manipulating person, she did not like those characteristics of me, so she preferred to get rid of me. When a leader like her is being protected by someone powerful within the company, the best is to look for a new job. It would be too demotivating having to fight against that person. Fortunately, there are many other companies where you can find a better environment, my boss, she had her favorites, and she and those favorites united against me and my other companions, because we did not accept their bullying actions and maltreatment, I had to work during the weekends and extra time, and she never said any motivating words to me, I had a great salary, but the maltreatments and attacks of her favorites were very tough. One of those companions, one day threatened me in the bathroom, she followed me, I still remember when she did that as I felt that someone came walking behind me, and I turned to look at her and she was Miriam, I entered the bathroom and closed the door, and she tried to enter by force to that place she struggled with the handle and I got scared so I held forcefully the handle to avoid her from entering, and she went away. She did the same to my companion Laura, and we told this to Martha, our boss, and she said that we were wrong, that we were seeing unreal things. It happened the same all the time, Miriam stalked me, she entered to my computer, she was watching me all the time, and as I assisted my boss Mr. Torres, she disliked that I assisted him, she immediately accused me with Martha and I lived threatened all the time. I had to tolerate a lot of rudeness on the side of Miriam, Elizabeth, Monserrat and Martha, it happened to me that many days I did not want to return to that office, I lost my job, and I only regretted not being able to say good bye to Mr. Torres, he was a very kind and reasonable person, I regret having to leave that job because if I hadn't worked for the secretarial pool, I would have worked better with Mr. Torres. I worked under a lot of pressure in that secretarial pool, but fortunately I do not work there any longer, and I am looking for a new job. I feel sad because I liked a lot my job, the environment and Martha were the big problem there. So, the best thing is to look for another job opportunity. Good luck!!

36. Archana AgarwalOctober 6,2023 at 5:51AM UTC

    Its time to look for a change. Until the organization realizes her true value, which hopefully they should when several of her reportees quit, there can be no growth for you. There is no point working in a toxic atmosphere so don't expose yourself to so much negativity.

37. Nancy SteinOctober 6,2023 at 12:37PM UTC

    I feel like we work in the same place!!

38. yolanda jacksonOctober 6,2023 at 12:44PM UTC

    Remove yourself. At this point, your peace is important in SURE you're having anxieties....