At Will Employment

Question

Is at will employment ever a two way street? If an employer decides to end a working relationship, they often do so without giving notice to the employee and the termination is immediate. If an employee leaves without giving notice, it is frowned upon and seen as unprofessional. What are the community's thoughts on this topic?

DeborahORell · Answer

At will employment was meant to be two-way.  That you are not an indentured slave.  You can leave when you want.  But let's face it,  power is with the money.  So the employer can behave as badly as they wish but expect professionalism nonetheless; definitely not 'fair'.  But then this country's employment laws protect the employer NOT the employee.  Unlike other countries   that provide severance, generous PAID maternity leave, ample vacation/time off.  We are here to serve our employer.

Barb Hansen · Answer

Here is my take --- to borrow Deborah's phrase above, 'you are not an indentured servant' --- if you find a better job and you need to quit 'today' without notice (in an 'at will' state), then do it. You need to care for your career path because most but not all employers don't care about your future if your future growth means that you have to leave their employment.

Insight from my career.

Very early in my technical career, I was working at a startup (in the very nascent days of the internet). I had willingly taken a 50% cut in pay from my hospital job because this new job had me working at home and not having to work shifts fit my new life as a single parent.

About a year into this job, with the company making a lot of money, and me and my developer partner were working 14 hour days, I asked my boss for a small raise - just a few thousand dollars a year. My boss said, and I'm quoting her here, 'Can you bring this back up to me in a few months? Your wage is not that important to me so you need to remember to remind me in a few months'

Yea, okay, that does not seem like that right way to handle an employee's wage increase request.

Side note: She was a wonderful person but a horrible manager because she didn't know how to manage people. She was not mean, just completely absent.  And interestingly enough about 10 years later, she ended up working for one of my direct reports at another startup, where I was a Managing Director and she had been hired as a content contributor.

The same day that I had that phone call with my manager, I started looking for another job and within a week, I had a new job (making much much more than I was making at the first company and launching my career trajectory).

After I signed the employment agreement with the new company, I sent an email to my old company telling them I was leaving effectively 'now'.  They were not happy with me, not mad just upset that I didn't give them a chance to counter-offer and upset that one of their first employees who knew everything was leaving.

Did I need to resign immediately? Probably not. I could have negotiated a later start date with the new company. But frankly I was not happy that my manager told me (employee #8 at the company) that my wage (which was well below industry average and that they could have easily paid me more -- we all knew the complete financials of the company) was not important to her and I took my frustrations on her out by leaving without notice.

Corina · Answer

This is why after 12 years in the corporate world I decided to become a career coach. I am trying to educate both employers and employees that employment and recruitment is a two-way street. Job seekers and employees need to be more aware of the power and rights that they have and actually use them.

LEANNE TOBIAS · Answer

At will employment protects the employer, not the employee.

No, it’s not fair, but it is the way the U.S. system works.

My advice:
1. Be professional. Two weeks notice won’t kill you. 
     (Exception: If you have been physically harmed. In that case, notify the police and senior management, get a lawyer and remove yourself from the assailant.)
2. Save, so that you will never be economically dependent on any particular job.
3. Never be afraid to resign.

Anonymous · Answer

This is a really good topic!  
I think as an employee there are times when people should take advantage of  there at will status.  I did take a crummy job long ago because I needed work.  The boss was passive aggressive, disrespectful, and very abusive.  I would be on the schedule but, many times sent home well before the end of the shift.  It felt like my time was being wasted since it was a bit of a commute for me and if I knew all the details of how they operated ahead of time, I would have probably pursued something else more seriously at that time. 
 At the training the boss stated verbally that they wanted 4 weeks notice when deciding to resign.  Thats a lot for the disrespect I ended up enduring.    Later on I looked at the handbook which stated I was an at will employee.  
This job did a number on me mentally making it hard for me to be positive about my education goals.  I ended up finding a higher paying full time position somewhere else with better benefits.  I would never consider using that boss as any sort a reference.  I ended up sending a 2 sentence resignation by email at 2 am the day of my shift.  It was on a busy day for the company but, since I was being used anyway, I did not care. Plus I was off to a better situation.
Respect is a two way street.  Before this I was very serious about not burning bridges but, if a work relationship is so intolerable I can't justify a reason to show more respect than I am given.
There are times when you can weigh the pros and cons in a position and take advantage of your at will status.  If a boss/company does not treat you with a level of respect, I wouldn't worry about courtesy! 
LIFE IS TOO SHORT!!!

Anonymous · Answer

Thought: Does money substitute time when it's the employer terminating vs employee quitting? We give time notice, they give money to hold you over?

I guess not all jobs have severance option, but I feel like many/most do.

MMarsden · Answer

no, I have never seen it go both ways.  Only 'at will' for the employer.  Also, two week notice is good, but it can cause issues and never take a counter....it usually ends badly.

Kimberly Mc · Answer

Nowadays with most employers only verifying that you work/worked there, it may not be as big of a deal leaving with no/short notice.  BUT - if your career field is in a 'small world' situation, unless it's your dream job you're going to, and the job MUST be filled NOW, why potentially burn bridges with your former employer if you might be working with these same folks on a future project? Remember, just because party A can do something that isn't the best idea, does not mean that party B should follow suit. You can't control other people's actions. You can only control your own, and those actions speak very loudly.

Gretchen Osterman · Answer

I think it is perfectly acceptable not to give a two week notice. I have witnessed some messy separations which result in more problems in the remaining staff.  Our higher education industry has been downsizing, recently a rare event. I believe if you can collect yourself maintain your professional colleagues a quick exit might actually be preferred.

At Will Employment

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