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Promotion and raise
Hello ladies,
I would like to get your insight on a situation I've been dealing with at work. I've been working for my company for almost 3 years and got a promotion a few months ago. Back then I asked about my compensation and was told that raises would be discussed during budget season(now). I communicated with my manager and her manager in the summer about this to make sure they were clearly aware that I would be expecting another conversation about my compensation in reference to my promotion.
A few days ago my manager called me to say that I could maybe get a bonus (worth 2 weeks of pay) paid in October...2020. I didn't manage to stay composed and told her about my disappointment.
She replied that she didn't understand why: She acknowledged that I have a Masters, a certification (SHRM-CP) and cost of living in my city (NYC)is higher than our other locations but that she hadn't been working with me long enough to know my worth. Basically telling me I should be happy to get the small bonus she was offering.
I have over 5 years of related experience, I know the company's particularities and needs in my field and over all I know it would cost them more to hire the right fit if they were to replace me. Currently paid $14K under the average for my city and position I'm extremely disappointed and feel taken advantage.
I am really having a hard time to look at things from a distance and figuring out what my next move should be and would greatly appreciate to hear your thoughts.
Thank you
Anonymous
10/28/19 at 5:08PM UTC
I would be so upset in your situation! I've been in the work force for under 2 years, so I'm not the most knowledgeable on the situation, but I have job hunted recently! If another conversation where you state clearly, my new position validates a $XXX raise goes south, maybe apply to a few other places, you may be able to use a job offer as leverage for your current company salary?
LEANNE TOBIAS
Investment real estate/sustainability
4.1k
10/31/19 at 1:14AM UTC
And frankly, I’d see a better offer as something that should be accepted. The company that gave a promotion without a raise does not value this worker.
Anonymous
10/27/19 at 12:54PM UTC
I agree that a promotion, absent a raise is not a completed act. The bigger question is not regarding your value as an employee, but rather the value your company places on human capitol / assets & their willingness to support that with planned financial incentives. Unfortunately, you were placed in a "No Win" Situation at the time of the promotion / addition of extra responsibilities to your role. If you had fought for what you deserved at that time, it would have most likely have not gone well. Long story, short -- seek "New" opportunities in your field as a move to another company is imminent.
Kimberly SweeneyHR Systems & Solutions Expert
365
10/26/19 at 3:16PM UTC
I understand your pain! Quick question, did your offer letter state anything about your raise (i.e. percentage increase, etc.)? If it didn't, you might have an up hill battle sadly. :-(
I submitted a Title Adjustment (because what I am doing day in and day out is way more than what my job title is) and a market rate adjustment to my manager back at the end of August. I am still waiting on an answer. When I finally sat my manager down and asked for the status, he mentioned he was given a form from HR and showed it to me - it was a promotion form. When I reiterated my request was not that of a promotion but to be competitive in the market and bring my salary to the rate in the city I live, he agreed and while he didn't really say much he said he has to get this turned in. Unfortunately, this form ultimately seals the fact I will not be getting my request approved as all promotions have to be approved by our CEO and our global CEO (crazy, right?). Sadly, women are not given management roles as all management roles are held by global staff brought over from the global headquarters (we have people with a manager title with less experience than me).
I would suggest doing a Value Proposition and prepare it in a formal letter with a designated decision date. You can outline your promotion you received as well as what was stated when you accepted the role. Then outline key accomplishments you have made strides on since then and a review of the salary based on market rate research. Lastly, when you send this, send this to your manager, your manager's manager, and HR. Politely put an expected date you wish to have a decision.
LEANNE TOBIASInvestment real estate/sustainability
4.1k
10/26/19 at 7:33AM UTC
Your promotion indicates that you are valuable to your company, but the promotion is rather hollow in the absence of a raise.
You have been with the company for close to 3 years, have 5 years of experience and have been promoted. Unless there are financial problems in your company (in which case a phased salary increase or additional non-monetary compensation such as increased vacation time would be warranted— you might want to research how the company is doing), a reasonable salary increase is justified.
A 2 week bonus (a one-time event) in October 2020 is not sufficient. In addition, your manager’s assertion that she doesn’t know your value is at best... odd. If your value is unknown, why were you promoted?
In addition to speaking with the compensation coach who posted on this thread, here are some of the factors you should be citing in a salary negotiation:
-Your specific accomplishments and their profit impact.
-Industry pay norms for your role in your geographic area.
-The additional responsibilities that you are now handling and their value.
-Previous raises, if any, that you’ve received: this gives you a baseline of the minimum that might be attainable.
-The current inflation rate: this is the minimum pay increase that would give you the same purchasing power as your current salary. (If the inflation rate is 1%, for example, you should get a 1% raise just to stay level; add the inflation rate to the pay raise you desire. Example: you want a 14% raise, and the inflation rate is 1%— ask for a 15% raise.)
Translate all of the above factors into monetary terms, and use it to request a raise. Beforehand, set a range of pay increases that would satisfy you. Know the minimum increase that you will accept and ask for more than that, because the company is unlikely to okay what you initially ask for— you need negotiating room.
For the tone of your negotiations, I recommend pleasant and upbeat. You are happy with your promotion and your role, but your compensation should fairly represent the value that you’ve brought to the company and continue to bring.
Caution: don’t say anything that would require you to walk out. You probably don’t want to do that until you have another offer in hand.
A good book for women on negotiating salary is Mika Brzezinski’s Know Your Value, which provides context and negotiating tips.
Finally, I’d also suggest that you begin circulating your resume if you have not already done so. Your current employer, or at least your current manager, is not treating you well.
Anonymous
10/25/19 at 1:28AM UTC
Thanks for all the insight. I work in HR and recruiting so I am a little familiar with salary negotiation and I have no fear doing it. I was prepared, had scheduled a time to talk with my manager, had the data and salary benchmarks from 4 different specialized websites and my manager basically didn't give me a chance to explain my worth and told me this by calling me out of nowhere. In my company accepting a bonus for next year implicitly means accepting not to ask for a raise next year so I understand people saying I need to stand up more but after reading your replies it is clear that I need to find another job!
Thank you ladies for your thoughts and help!
Carolyn HipkinsOnline Community Manager | Executive Assistant
387
10/26/19 at 2:28PM UTC
Yeah, when she told you she didn't know your worth AFTER you'd been promoted, that was the signal it was time to leave.
BrookieI assist momentum so that we never stop growing
414
10/25/19 at 1:38PM UTC
Yes, I support your decision to find another job. You teach people how to treat you, and with your awesome set of skills, this process may even be slightly exciting. I know it's exhausting to enter the market, but you're in a good position where you're currently employed and can simply cast the net to see what you catch.
Restructuring time!
Jessica Callahan SteeleTalent Acq Specialist.
90
10/24/19 at 8:51PM UTC
As a recruiter, if you were promoted you were being told you were worth something to the company. They are jerking your chain! Now I don't like when people use me to get a great offer to take that and go back to their company to get a better offer to stay. If you have to do that then, your company didn't know your worth in the first place and is telling you that they are just too lazy to recruit for your replacement and had the money to pay you the first time.
Now, what I would recommend is doing a salary analysis, schedule a time to sit down with your supervisor and share this information. Chose a good time of day when they aren't going to be overwhelmed and can be focused on you and present your information calmly. Bring to them how you have been a value add to the company as well as how you see yourself being able to help propel the company forward. If they see your commitment that shows them that you aren't a flight risk. If they aren't willing to make a change, it might be time to visit HR or go someplace where you are valued!
Emma RogersLuxury hotel pro by day, crafter by night
124
10/24/19 at 8:36PM UTC
Isn't being promoted a sign of your worth? Oh, that makes me so upset for you! Your boss thinks you're worthy enough for additional responsibilities but not compensation? That sounds like she is trying to have the best of both worlds. While I agree with Melissa's point that sometimes in life we need to push through a negative situation and find a way to make it work, I think it's also important to recognize that a situation might not be fixable. If your boss isn't willing to budge, or your company has a salary cap, or there is a corporate policy that prevents your position from being paid more, then you'll end up beating your head against wall trying to find a solution that does not exist. At some point, you may need to stop trying to force this job into something that will make you happy, and just find a job that makes you happy the way it is, without having to fight.
SiobhanF
43
10/25/19 at 1:30AM UTC
"Isn't being promoted a sign of your worth? "
Well thank you, that's what I thought!
Six Figure Salary CoachLet me help you add 5 figures to your pay, today
947
10/24/19 at 10:58PM UTC
100%!!! If your company isn't wiling to recognize and work with you - then the next question is about your fit. But we also need the opportunity to defend our selves and push back a bit. I have seen so many companies push back on comp..... until the employee stands up, pushes back, and points out key points around the business and the individual progression. I always get nervous to just 'leave' when things don't go the way we plan...... but you are totally correct.... if you do your best to advocate for yourself and they aren't willing to work with you (aka don't value you) then it's time to ask what type of future you want to have and if that company is the right one to fulfill your goals!
Great points and conversation!
Six Figure Salary CoachLet me help you add 5 figures to your pay, today
947
10/24/19 at 8PM UTC
GIRLLLLLL Let's fix this!!! I know your frustration. I have been here many times. I see a few comments about moving on and while that certainly is an option, the reality is that we face these situations throughout our life (more than once) and finding a solution to move forward and get what you want will pay great dividends in the future! Pushing forward, acknowledging what you want and going after it will help you in this situation, and future situations. If this situation comes up again, would you want to leave the company, or persevere (assuming of course that you like your job and where you work except for this situation)?
If you like your job, and you like where you work, let's work through this. I have a TON of suggestions and don't want to inundate this thread, or make assumptions about your job that might not be totally accurate, so feel free to shoot me an email at [email protected] and we can start working through this together.
I also have a free resource on how to request a raise on my website - Here is the link if you are interested.
http://bit.ly/GetARaiseToday
I am also hosting a free challenge in 2 weeks on just this - I can share those details with you as well!....
ANNYYYYWAYS..... for the purpose of this chat, I do believe there is a way to move forward within your company more immediately. A bonus in 2020 is nice - but that doesn't fix your salary problem. You need to drive up your eleigble earnings. Everything hinges on that (ignoring the fact that it's a bonus and it's a year away).
You are underpaid and we need to fix that. The first thing I want you to do is position yourself to control the conversation. In your previous situation, you asked them to evaluate your compensation (didn't give any specifics so you left it to them to DECIDE what to do). I always recommend putting forward a rationalized argument backed by facts. When I coach, I talk about thinking about yourself as an asset (what is their return on investment in you - if you don't know how to monitize it, I can help with that). Being below market average is one thing, but that is only one piece of the puzzle here. Yes, you need to be paid ABOVE average and so you want a 'business case' that supports all of that.
Right now we view the employment relationship as the employee being obedient to their employer. You them to review your compensation and wait to see what they say (not just 'you' - most people do this). I advocate to put forward specific requests, justify it, and then negotiate and have conversations around it. You have put the power in their hands to discuss it without the proper facts.... This is a bit foreign to most of us, but that's ok. It's a different way of thinking and one that is totally coach-able. It's just new...... It's about supporting and advocating for yourself but in a professional and business-centric way.
I can keep going on and on.... perhaps we can schedule a quick 20 min call to discuss this further because my response is officially getting long haha
I look forward to connecting with you!
Erin BeemerProduct Developer | Change Maker | Growth Minded
520
10/24/19 at 7:33PM UTC
If you were not specific about your expectations, I would recommend having the discussion again and being very specific about how much you expect and why. Be specific about how you have increased your value to the company in 3 years and what you bring to the new role. Bring information on how much the job pays in your city. Be prepared to walk away. I do not agree with the recommendation above to leverage an outside offer. It's not a great long term solution for you or your company. If you can't reach a satisfactory agreement at your current place, move on. Good luck with your discussion, I know how difficult a raise discussion can be but don't back down and bring the data!
Betsy Walters, CALCDiscounted Coaching for any FairyGodBoss member.
244
10/24/19 at 7:10PM UTC
I think I would move on - with your degree and certifications you should be able to find a company who has the ability to value you contribution. I'm sorry but your company sounds toxic.
Carrie StilesCreate the "WOW!" Factor For Your Client
470
10/28/19 at 5:47PM UTC
I agree that it's time to move on. Put out some feelers to others in the same titled position and see what's available at their companies. Start networking at events specific to your likes and new job preferences. Good Luck to you.
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