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Difficult Relative
My sister-in-law is married to a man who is always right and will go on and on to tell you why you're wrong and he's right. Sports, Covid, lawn care it doesn't matter-what your doing is wrong and he's right. My husband and I are both on the quieter side so when "Bob" gets going, we get quieter. And the more "Bob" drinks the louder he gets. I have tried to talk to my sister-in-law privately about her husbands behavior and her response was: "I can't go through another divorce". So she knows he has a problem. Luckily, because of the pandemic we have been able to avoid them but I am already thinking about what to say/do when we do see my in laws again. I do like my sister-in-law and I don't want to abandon her (I see most all of her friends have stopped socializing with her because of him) Help! How do you deal with an obnoxious, egotistical, drunk, narcissist?
50 Comments
Anonymous
12/05/20 at 3:24PM UTC
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You can't deal with the narcissist because he is not going to change. But why can't you simply see your sister-in-law alone?
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:10PM UTC
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Men like that don't allow their wives to go places alone. If he does grace her with that privilege, he will call every five minutes to ask when she will be home.
Anonymous
12/05/20 at 4:18PM UTC
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No point getting baited into arguments with this guy. Like anonymous above, I was just thinking you could meet your sister for some 1-1 sister time, and plan something her husband doesn’t like to do. Whether it’s going for a walk, a pedicure, helping you paint a room in your house, a volunteer project, going to a museum, or out for cup of tea, whatever. Also, any family gatherings that involve him should be at her house (or in any case, not yours) so you can arrive early and help set up or prepare, then make your excuses and leave early before he really gets loaded up and gets on a roll.
Aly
44
12/05/20 at 5:57PM UTC
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People like him are insecure and putting up a wall because they are afraid people don’t or won’t like them so they give them a reason to feel that way. It’s like losing on purpose so you don’t have to accept being bad at something or not studying for a test so you have an excuse for getting a bad grade. Either avoid the person at all costs because he is likely intolerable from your description or read past the hard surface and try to connect on a neutral topic. Ask them about something they are an expert or let them tell you a story about a time they were right and everyone else was wrong. They are seeking validation and sounds like they need it in the worst way and don’t know how to ask. My mom and my husband are both like this and have alienated almost everyone in their lives who cares about them and claim they can’t stand others. Sadly they are the ones who have no support when they really need it. We all do at some point.
Jennifer
66
12/07/20 at 2:13PM UTC
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I agree with Aly. It is insecurity. Know that you are better than that and aren't insecure. That is where the narcissism comes from. It is how they hide from it. You can't argue with someone like that. They drain the life out of you. I would just try to get past it too. If he lets you see your sister in law 1 on 1, that is great. If not I agree that finding something he can talk about that validates him. Might help him gain your trust enough to see your sister in law.
Anonymous
12/06/20 at 4:28PM UTC
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You tube has quite a number of videos from people giving their opinion on how to deal with narcissistic people Watch some and try out the suggestions. I learned from an aunt that hurt people hurt people. Limiting exposure to them is really one way to handle it but I ask narcissists in my life direct questions about their behavior and it usually rattles them enough to back them down or make them not bring the drama to me as often. They hate being called out on their behavior and usually need a hug but have no tools on how to be vulnerable enough to admit it or ask for one. No one is perfect but their behavior can be particularly painful. Boundaries are a must. People tolerate bad behavior because they think they deserve it. I would encourage your ex sister in law to watch some of those videos as well. She is a grown woman just like you and should be figuring out on her own (not your responsibility) how to manage. I do understand wanting to help. Help by encouraging her/being supportive and limiting your exposure to the both of them as the same time. Some 1 on 1 time is good for bonding anyway.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 4:13AM UTC
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Narcissism is a serious mental condition. It can definitely add unwanted stress to any relationship. Most folks do not realize they need help or that their actions are negatively impacting those around them. The task of finding a way to tell them can be daunting. Research available resources on the subject and based on all parties involved find your best approach. In the meantime, keep supporting your sister-in-law she needs you more than ever. Best regards!
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:36PM UTC
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Unfortunately, even if you try telling him, however that may be, he will not listen...EVER. Part of the definition of narcissist is that they are NEVER wrong, nor have they done anything wrong. I was recently strangled and nearly killed by my narcissist BF. I luckily was emotionally strong enough to get away. But he still thinks it was all my fault and he did nothing wrong. Even though he is facing felony charges. Narcissists just cannot process information normally.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:53PM UTC
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So sorry to hear about your past relationship! I’m very happy to know that it is over and that you are safe! ❤️
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 2:39PM UTC
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Thank you. It is truly appreciated. I did not realize I was with a narcissist until it was too late. But, better late than never. Glad to be moving on!
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 12:57PM UTC
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Thank you all for the wonderful advice, already I feel better having a plan/tools to deal with this situation. Just viewing it as a mental illness has been eyeopening.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:54PM UTC
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I think tools for communication with him are great but I do think you want to be very careful about stating someone has a mental illness. That should only be done by a professional. A lot of mental illnesses overlap with depression, anxiety and other conditions. I say this because those who actually have mental illnesses are stigmatized and just because hes unbearable does not mean he is mentally ill.
All that being said. I have a very similar bro-in-law, and what worked for me is talking to him with an open mind. Like any other conversations with someone who I wholeheartedly disagree, starting from that place makes the conversations more amicable and easier to deal with. Admit when hes right, and respectfully disagree when you do. It won't fix it but I have noticed he is more cordial and willing to talk to me than before.
Good luck!
Melissa NobileHandbell Choir Director
305
12/07/20 at 1:20PM UTC
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Our family has a similar situation. We decided that there is no way this person will keep us from our family member. We all call regularly and before Covid, we made sure we got together as a family as often as we could.
We basically ignore our “Bob” and disregard almost everything he says. We don’t ask his opinion. If he offers it, we hear it, don’t engage, and move on. This works for us - and yes, it takes an awful lot of teeth gritting, tongue chewing, and patience to survive a get together. Is it worth it? You bet! We figure we will always be there so when the chips fall, our family member has a soft place to land - in our arms.
Genevieve Sheridan
41
12/07/20 at 8:06PM UTC
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This. Don’t abandon your family member because of their spouse. I recommend being extremely direct and assertive with the narcissist without engaging in their behavior patterns when you are together so they don’t dominate the experience and you can still have a family. Everyone has to be a united front and make a decision before the gathering on how to approach it together. Your sister in law knows that confronting her husband will result In a divorce because there is no solution. I can’t imagine the misery of living this way and knowing the alternative and sacrificing ones life for another person who lives to consume you. It must be painful for her. Support her as an individual. “Another” divorce shows she may have some patterns that she needs to overcome herself, like attracting narcissists. I have been there.
Anonymous
12/08/20 at 5:39AM UTC
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I agree. I married one. And a lawyer to top it off! We are separated in part because of his need to always be right and argue over anything frequently. There is no addiction in my case and I’m unsure if he is a narcissist. But he definitely has those qualities by nature and training.
Try as hard as you can to ignore him as Melissa said. He is an addict too so he wouldn’t in right mind drunk even if he wasn’t a narcissist. I wish you blessings because for me people like that are hard to ignore. I was in a legal profession too and our jobs were adversarial by nature, so it just added fuel to the fire. Or have compassion on him due to his addiction because it isn’t personal.
I am very extroverted so engaging led to never ending debates and weekly exhaustion. You both don’t seem to have those issues. Just shaking your head as he rants and saying, uh huh, yes, ok...I see, sometimes helped me tune the noise out. When I couldn’t I would limit contact with him for my sanity, or leave when he started in my presence.
You can and should support your relative but not allow yourself to get sucked into the abuse or a horribly counterproductive and negative situation. And beg her to seek individual therapy to head of any residual effects of his abuse.
mercy richExecution Artist
29
12/07/20 at 1:25PM UTC
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When exposed to this fellow, try to: "Observe don't Absorb." You may have the only, yet best defense --> and that is AWARENESS.
Narcs feed on negative emotions and stirring people up, use the 'Grey Rock' method and do not give them your emotions and reactions. Be like a colorless rock (really tune out) - they can not steal your energy when this is mastered, and they tire themselves out. Losers.
Mary Kate Wainwright
29
12/07/20 at 2:46PM UTC
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I wholeheartedly agree with this. My MIL is the same way and I have worked hard to adopt the 'Grey Rock' method. Remember he will feed on your emotions and reactions so the less you give him to feed on the better.
Jessica RutherfordSenior Chemist in DFW
61
12/07/20 at 3:21PM UTC
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One more vote for the Grey Rock! Unfortunately we have family members on both sides that behave similarly and can appreciate your pain. By not engaging and responding with boring platitudes, they just move on and so do we.
I wish you all the best.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 3:47PM UTC
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I totally agree with Mercy. If you choose to not engage with Narcs, they lose the power. They feed off getting a "rise" or reaction from you. Just do not let them!
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:38PM UTC
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Just ignore him.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:39PM UTC
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Finally an upside to Covid-19. Just turn off the phone/facebook call with your "Bob" - wish I could do the same with one very "in-the-news-all-the-time" (famous political) Narcissist!
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 1:51PM UTC
in
Minimize contact. Tell your SIL you are there for her but his behavior isn’t acceptable or enjoyable. Ask her pointed questions feeding her words back to her.
“ You said you don’t want to go through another divorce. That means you want to spend your life with him. Do you still love him” and be quiet. Find out the why behind her staying. That may help you deal with him or if there is more like abuse, threats, or gaslighting.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 2:19PM UTC
in
My father-in-law has many of the same traits. It's exhausting to be around for anyone who tries to go into the world with a light heart but I've worked out a few tricks over the years:
1) much of his braggadocious behavior stems from feeling overwhelmed by the info dump of the internet (his choice, his habit) and letting himself feel inadequate — I ask his opinion on something that he truly does have more expertise in and let him talk until he's done. Be prepared to answer questions and for arrogant "so what did you learn" follow-ups but it takes the edge off and focuses the convo on something you might not despise.
2) always have a work project in the background. If you need to sneak away for a half-hour to "work on an end of year report", announce it at the beginning of the visit and you have a Willy Wonka golden ticket.
3) gauge the room and when he's in an even-ish keel, try to drawn your sister-in-law into direct conversation and have a few jokes or stories that would interest her. If he's a few drinks in this could backfire when you "ignore" him so make sure you've got the read of the room.
4) remember that managing the emotions of adults is 100% their own responsibility. If you don't feel up to a particular visit with him, even if it's so-and-so's last group holiday ever (so drama, so not true) you are completely allowed to skip. Missing time with others is uncomfortable but you can always reach out to them one-on-one and end up having a wonderful time.
Thinking of you and wishing you peaceful, happy holidays!
Maggie StoneCredentialed School Cousnelor and APCC
113
12/07/20 at 2:20PM UTC
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I am a mental health professional. Many mental health professionals shy away from treating people with personality disorders because they are so difficult to treat. If you try to intervene, in his mind, you will become the problem, and he will probably never hear you. Continue to let her know that you care about and support her. Encourage her to get some therapy to help her process what is going on. And if you turn down invites, be open and honest with her about why.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 2:44PM UTC
in
My husband of 23 years is not as bad as the man she's describing. However, he does like being right and will spend a long time going into detail as to why he's right. It's exhausting! I just started saying "You're right" or "That's a good idea" and that usually changes the subject. He lives for praise and needs to be reminded often how important he is and what he does for us. Otherwise, he gets in a crabby mood and won't talk.
LORI-ANN BURLINGAME
326
12/07/20 at 5:23PM UTC
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This is great advice. Thank you for sharing.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 2:25PM UTC
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Take away the excessive drinking and you have the man from whom I filed for divorce a month ago after 12.5 years of marriage. He puts too much of a premium on being right and not enough of a premium on being kind. For years, I sucked it up but it has only gotten worse. Divorces aren’t fun, but sometimes they are necessary. She can live a good and fulfilling life without him.
BjcYorkieMom
12
12/07/20 at 2:34PM UTC
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Plan something that is more woman orientated, something that he would be bored to death with. Then, maybe he’ll let her go alone. She needs assistance to help shore up her mental walls, to help her deal w/him. I like a lot of the other comments listed above too; especially the one that states “He puts too much of a premium on being RIGHT and not enough of a premium on being kind.”
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 3:14PM UTC
in
I left a "clone" of that man 3 months ago after 14 years. Busy re-finding me and learning how to be social again because I lost every one of my friends. Encourage your sister-in-law to make time for herself and develop outside interests. She probably feels very alone.
Rosa Goes
90
12/07/20 at 3:14PM UTC
in
"Bob" obviously needs help. I think a good approach is a family intervention with the help of a counselor. You might consider spearheading this since you posted for advice and care about your SIL. Otherwise it's a lot of judging, gossip, stress in the family. Replace with compassion and do a family intervention.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 3:16PM UTC
in
We have a friend like this. More or less, we know that whatever we do or buy is not going to be great as what he bought or his knowledge. We have learned that there is no changing this person or trying to get them to see the light. We use sarcasm to deflect. It annoys him, but it makes things easier to deal with.
VickieD
11
12/07/20 at 3:49PM UTC
in
I read a book called "Loving the Self-Absorbed" to deal with a similar situation. It's specifically directed at those who have--for whatever reason--decided to maintain a relationship with such a person and provides specific strategies for dealing with them. It might help your sister to read it, too.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 10:03PM UTC
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Thank you I will check it out
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 3:57PM UTC
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Honestly, because she has already told you that "she just can't go through another divorce" and you mentioned how difficult it was to just get her alone to briefly talk to her, she had already resigned herself to the life of an abused (yes, she is going through classic abuse w/o hitting...for now) woman and evidently doesn't want to escape because he has brainwashed her into believing she is a failure for previously getting a divorce, it will be difficult to help her. It sounds like she doesn't have any close family support either, which makes things more difficult. Before you decide to help her by giving her money, getting her to a shelter or another dwelling far away, helping her pay for therapy that she seems to greatly be in need of....you need to find out if she really does want out and is willing to start over from scratch and file a protective order against her husband, and leave everyone and everything behind to get that fresh start. Only then...will you be able to help her.
Anonymous
12/07/20 at 4:46PM UTC
in
Couldn’t agree more. The concern hear should not be how to deal with the narcissist but how to deal with his primary victim, your sister in law. If she is ready to heal herself back to health and wholeness, Melanie Tonia Evans has a great program that can be found online.
Emelyn LybargerLife, Leadership, & Team Development Coach
46
12/07/20 at 4:20PM UTC
in
A question for your sister-in-law may be: What is the emotional cost of staying married compared to the emotional cost of divorcing?
Marian Casey
13
12/07/20 at 5:35PM UTC
in
Let’s all take a step back. From the details provided here we can’t and should not diagnose this husband’s mental state. There are so many reasons people act a certain way and not always because they are “...”.
The poster can only support this sister-in-law and set boundaries for herself ( as others here astutely mentioned). Support can include listening, suggestions for therapy or support groups or just being there. Our role is not to solve other’s problems or demand they do something. It’s up to them to do that.
It’s not easy for either party but honesty, patience and empathy can help make things tolerable. We are all learning in life, some faster than others.
BeaBoss500113Accounting consultant
271
12/07/20 at 6:35PM UTC
in
Her reasoning is that she doesn't want to go through another divorce, as opposed to defending him. Which means she needs support should she decide she can't take him anymore. Let her know you will be behind her should she make that decision. Until then if you invite them then make the gathering alcohol free, or don't invite him at all.
Sophia Kelly
26
12/07/20 at 8:26PM UTC
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I agree with much of the advice here. Plus, I would add that the phrases "I see things differently" and "we'll have to disagree on that" are super useful. Sister in law is doing the best she can with a stressful situation and lots of decisions to make, and putting more pressure on her to regulate him isn't going to help. Staying in her life will.
Also, not nodding when he speaks (men sometimes interpret this as agreement, and it's perfectly fine to just listen, not respond and then move on as if he hadn't spoken) and not responding to what he says when he's being annoying is helpful.
Brandi MatlockLife Long Assistant
32
12/07/20 at 10:14PM UTC
in
So he’s a bad guy because he’s loud, enjoy’s cocktails and likes to debate with people? I don’t see the problem. Accepting differences is half the battle. Just because someone doesn’t behave like you doesn’t mean they are bad or bad for someone else.
Anonymous
12/08/20 at 12:52AM UTC
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I would love a debate but unfortunately there is no debating. He just yells louder and louder.
Brandi MatlockLife Long Assistant
32
12/08/20 at 11:02AM UTC
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I understand. You could stoop to his level and see how he handles someone yelling at him. This approach sounds ridiculous but I’ve seen it work.
Maggie Wolff
57
12/08/20 at 2:11AM UTC
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"I have tried to talk to my sister-in-law privately about her husbands behavior and her response was: "I can't go through another divorce"."
YIKES. So does she want to leave him? I would focus my energies on how to best support HER and help her figure out her next steps. This sounds like a much bigger red flag than how you can deal with him once in awhile.
Marie NCertified Dementia Care Provider/Life Coach.
98
12/08/20 at 2:23AM UTC
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You can't change others only how you respond. Your sister-in-law accepts the situation and him for what it is. Consider yourself lucky you don't have to deal with it 24/7. Personally, I would avoid him at all costs or only tolerate him for a short period. I usually can tolerate anyone in short bursts. I put on a professional face and I am polite. There are no simple answers here.
Carolyn A
222
12/08/20 at 3:53AM UTC
in
My partner's step father was like this. My partner's mother died recently and it's he and his sisters' bitter regret they didn't spend more time with her without him around. Find ways to do it. She needs you.
Elizabeth Stiles WestI teach in person or online, college or K-12
280
12/08/20 at 4:24PM UTC
in
Remember, you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Do not argue with him no matter how preposterous or even disturbing his opinions may be. Just say something like "that's an interesting perspective. What makes you think so?" or even "you could be right" (knowing that is not at all likely!) If you can invite your sister-in-law to do something you know won't interest him (a day at a salon, shopping for makeup, etc.), that would be ideal, but if not, at least steer the conversation to topics he does not care about at all. Maybe he will leave the room for awhile and at least give you a few minutes of peace.
Rebecca Lee VCredentialing Specialist
2.03k
12/08/20 at 9:43PM UTC
in
So the sister-in-law is willing to stay in an abusive relationship than "deal" with a divorce?
Anonymous
12/09/20 at 12:13AM UTC
in
yes, unbelievable.
Deepti Engineering Manager in SoCal
15
12/08/20 at 10:20PM UTC
in
My kid’s 3rd grade teacher told their class that it’s not important to always be Mr. Right. Doing things differently brings perspective and makes the brain grow. Not sure if this advice can be applied here but weighing “brainstorming and exploring” over “being right and winners” worked well.
Holly S.
11
12/09/20 at 11:28PM UTC
in
Perhaps your sister-in-law's husband is struggling with alcohol and is an alcoholic. You don't know what is troubling him to use alcohol. Maybe suggest Al-Anon to find constructive ways to deal with him when he is inebriated.
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