Recently one of the departments at my company held a week long kaizan (internal brainstorming meeting to find a solution to an identified problem).

Anonymous

May 17,2022 at 2:26PM UTC

Welcome to Fairygodboss!

We’re the largest online career community helping women achieve their career goals. Gain access to articles, jobs, events, and a supportive network of women and allies. Membership is free, always.

Recently one of the departments at my company held a week long kaizan (internal brainstorming meeting to find a solution to an identified problem). I was not asked to participate in the kaizan which is understandable since it doesnt touch or concern my department. I was pleasantly surprised when the leader of the kaizan ordered me lunch. I expressed my gratitude especially since I'm typically too busy to eat. On Wednesday I was not offered lunch. No biggie. On Thursday the billing manager (she is a gossipy woman who often yells at her staff. However Ive had a cordial relationship with her) said she saw how booked my calendar was and asked if I could make room to meet with her for an urgent meeting. I moved my other meetings and told her I could accommodate her. She opened the meeting by saying "I heard from someone who heard from someone that you were upset that you didnt get lunch on Wednesday" I couldnt believe I reschuled meetings to listen to gossip! I told her that I was grateful to have received lunch and never expected it. Furthermore, I'm disappointed that (1) the subject matter of this meeting is not urgent and did not require that I reschedule other meetings and (2) she would repeat second hand gossip. I asked her why was she getting involved in such petty gossip. She also was not part of the kaizan so dont see why whoever told her this even came to her. I told her she should have nipped this in the bud. She started crying uncontrollably. I was unable to get her to stop. I felt bad hearing her sob. It was not my intent to bring her to tears. She hung up (it was aa TEAMS meeting). I called back 20 minutes later and she declined the call. I messaged her that I wanted to apologize for upsetting her. She messaged back that she wasnt in the right state of mind to talk. I asked her to let me know when she was ready to talk. This occurred last week and she hasnt reached out to me since. Would appreciate your thoughts.

Why women love us:

Daily articles on career topics
Jobs at companies dedicated to hiring more women
Advice and support from an authentic community
Events that help you level up in your career
Free membership, always

61 comments

Share your insight

Join an authentic community that helps women support each other at work. Share your professional experience or ask for advice — you can even post anonymously.

61 Comments

Join the conversation

Melissa NobileMay 17,2022 at 2:37PM UTC
The issue is hers. Let it go.
AnonymousMay 17,2022 at 2:41PM UTC
It sounds like you were reasonable in the face of the unreasonable.
Document this for yourself (you could use your summary above and any emails/Teams messages you have) in the event that it comes up again.
AnonymousMay 17,2022 at 2:42PM UTC
Please don't invest any more time trying to right this ship. Don't reward the temper tantrum by trying to address this and get to a place of yes. You claim to wanting to avoid gossiping so end this entire transaction. Don't give it any more time or attention. Move onto real work issues and file this info for future use.
AnonymousMay 17,2022 at 2:48PM UTC
This is an interesting one...I think there is something broader going on with the billing manager based on her reaction. I agree with you that it didn't require you to reschedule meetings and it could have been addressed it a much different manner by her. I don't think your requests about her not repeating gossip are unreasonable, she probably wasn't used to someone standing up to her. I think you handled it well, you gave her space and then followed up keeping the lines of communication open.
The only other thing I would suggest since this is in the workplace is to document everything from your perspective and send it to her, if you haven't already. It's more of a CYA thing so that it doesn't come back on you in any way.
AnonymousMay 17,2022 at 3:10PM UTC
She's embarrassed and there is probably far more going on with her situation.
Barb HansenMay 17,2022 at 3:18PM UTC
Send her an email or a message with an apology, if you think you need to apologize again, and then move on.
She may be embarrassed by her outburst or she thinks you are in the wrong and "she's not ready to talk," either way, I won't dwell on her outburst anymore.
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 12:13PM UTC
I agree with the part about sending a message to help the other person move forward but there is no need for an apology.
Apologizing is taking the blame and it’s not her fault this woman broke down in tears over office gossip.
AnonymousMay 17,2022 at 6:39PM UTC
Something else might be going on, but it seems like a very dramatic reaction for the situation. She could have been really embarrassed. But it's not on you to waste your energy on other peoples feelings... It seems like you already did everything you could, tried to apologize, and checked in on her.
JJMay 17,2022 at 7:01PM UTC
Wow. I do not think it was you. Your approach seems straightforward and professional. Offer to support her but you do not need to keep following up.
Maegan, Nike Sales Rep & Career CoachMay 17,2022 at 7:51PM UTC
I wouldn't feel bad, it sounds like she has some things going on and this somehow triggered all of her emotions to come out! I think you've done all you can do here, with the exception of pulling her aside face to face next time you see her!
AnonymousMay 18,2022 at 1:33PM UTC
She works remotely and lives in a different state so pulling her aside was not an option.
Angeline DixonMay 19,2022 at 12:29PM UTC
You should not be apologizing, you did everything right, and this was completely unacceptable that she had you clear your schedule just to have a meeting to make you feel uncomfortable. Don’t play into it. You don’t owe her any apologies.
GirlBossanova934974May 19,2022 at 12:37PM UTC
You got way way way too much drama going on in your company. And all this extra time to go around gossiping and such, too! I think the interviewing process at your company needs an overhaul because someone who loses it over such a small matter probably shouldn't be there no less with such little work to do......If it were me, I would be shopping resume starting today.
Cyndy TrivellaMay 19,2022 at 12:39PM UTC
Let me start with, "Oh boy."
Of course, we don't know for sure, but let's consider this scenario.
Given she was totally out of line confronting you with this and she now realizes it's none of her business, she obviously regrets speaking with you. She may be upset because she fears you will kick this up the chain of command and report her to her boss or higher.
You have already made a few goodwill attempts to speak with her, so the next is to put it in writing. I suggest that you send her an email letting her know that the conversation she initiated was inappropriate, but you are willing to keep that conversation between the two of you and you do not plan to bring this to leadership's attention. You've done nothing wrong here and you're not responsible for her emotions and reactions. As an adult, she needs to manage those, and further, she needs to develop an understanding of what is appropriate and inappropriate conversation in the workplace.
Good luck.
RochelleMay 19,2022 at 12:43PM UTC
I'm not excusing this overreaction to your confrontation with the billing manager, but I am confused how anyone would know whether or not lunch was ordered for you on Wednesday if you weren't even part of the kaizan? You called it gossip, so I presume you did say something to someone that made it back to the billing manager? I'd take that as a lesson learned to keep that other colleague at a distance, as well.
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 1:33AM UTC
Could be that there was a notation on documentation submitted with the lunch bill about which employees got lunch at company expense. If so, billing manager was using her position to pursue gossip. Not good.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:10AM UTC
That's exactly it. I never said anything to anyone about not getting lunch.
froerden@yahoo.comMay 19,2022 at 12:46PM UTC
Lesson learned: 1) stay far away from this person. 2) don’t complain or gossip. 3) always get an agenda before a meeting!
Dr. Linnie CarterMay 19,2022 at 12:50PM UTC
This woman is weaponizing her tears against you. Don't allow her to do so. She threw a rock at you and then started crying when you threw it back at her. You should not apologize, because you did nothing wrong. I agree with others that you should send an email documenting what happened and move on. If you are a woman of color, you should definitely document this in writing. It will be her word against yours, and if your leaders are racist, they will most likely believe her over you.
Carli GarciaMay 19,2022 at 1:11PM UTC
Unreal!!! She went out of her way to schedule a remote meeting to gossip about you to your face! For shame. Put it in writing and let her boss know (is it protocol for billing to schedule a meeting with me to tell me that others are discussing their opinions of me? It made me uncomfortable…)
As for your colleagues, gross! Someone was clearly annoyed that they didn’t get lunch. Petty! Proceed with caution. Good luck!
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 1:14PM UTC
CYA
because she will be out for revenge.
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 1:26PM UTC
Sounds like she's got something else going on . I would just drop this topic with her.
KristaMay 19,2022 at 1:28PM UTC
There might be something going on for her personally that caused her over reaction. It sounds like you have handled it very diplomatically so far.
But agree to keep an arms length if it's not something you can help her with.
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 1:34PM UTC
In recent months I have suffered from a lot of anxiety. One of the tools that has helped me greatly is to assume that everyone is just trying to do their best. I have realized that not everyone will have the same capacity, professionalism, skill, kindness, maturity, world view, wokeness… simply put, people have different gifts and it isn’t always aligned with their current role. With this I ask you to consider that she felt she was acting in a way to help something. It may have been misguided, sure. When she acted she realized it was a mistake. Why not take this as a learning opportunity to help her read the signs differently. I never miss an opportunity to turn someone into a partner and it has served me well. If you do decide to speak with her and offer coaching, please keep any judgments aside otherwise she will perceive it as rubbing her nose in it. Your heart must be in the right place.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:07AM UTC
Love this advice and will take it!
Lori CasoMay 19,2022 at 1:38PM UTC
I agree with the folks who mentioned that “something else is going in here…”
is it possible to mention to her boss or HR that “Sally” had an over-reaction to a brief Teams meeting and you are concerned that something else may be in play here. Maybe her supervisor has also noticed a behavioral change and she is in need of the Employee Assistance Program or some mental health time off.
I would be empathetic, not dismayed by her behavior.
Kimberly YoungermanMay 19,2022 at 1:51PM UTC
There are several different ways to continue to address this, depending on what you feel is in your long term best interest.
Clearly, her emotional, and subsequent inconsolable disposition, has more to do with factors outside this exchange, as opposed to the exchange itself.
You can choose to set those factors aside (whatever they may be) and simply address her entirely inappropriate behavior directly with HR You have good cause to do go this route, as this sort of behavior left unchecked will create an HR nightmare at some point.
You could also address your concerns to HR from a concerned colleague perspective, explain the exchange and how her behavior caused you concern and appropriate departments should look into her well being.
Whichever way you go (there’s more than two obviously, those are just a couple options) I recommend you get documentation on the exchange with a neutral third party. This could escalate.
Jill DingMay 19,2022 at 1:51PM UTC
Regardless of whether she was trying to help, you should mention this to her manager/HR. There's no reason to realign your busy schedule even if she's reaching out of concern. You also mentioned she's gossipy and has a history of yelling at her staff. Just cover your bases! She may not be cordial anymore...
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 2:04PM UTC
I agree with Jill! Avoid this woman like the plague and beat her to the punch . . . .get to HR first!
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 3:18PM UTC
I agree with Jill as this covers her manager and HR just in case something goes wrong .
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 2:06PM UTC
She is upset that you called her out on her bad behavior and gossip tendencies. I’d maybe mention this to HR but maybe not. Would definately jot down a note to yourself about the incident in case it comes up in the future. I am also the kind of person who will usually reach out once and then wait for the other side to respond. And honestly, sometimes hope the problem just goes away.
But yeah, asking for a meeting to gossip is way not cool, especially when you move other things around.
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 3:42PM UTC
just be sure if/when you “jot a note to yourself” you do it by sending yourself an email. That way if anything comes of this, there is proof of your position being documented on a date prior to any possible shenanigans that gossip lady might pull.
ChrishoggMay 19,2022 at 2:33PM UTC
My thoughts?
Life happens.
Move on.
(And I have to wonder what escalating this to HR, as several commenters have suggested here, could possibly accomplish, other than making things worse for all concerned, probably for yourself more than anyone else).
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 6:22PM UTC
Yes, HR is there to serve the company, not you. You'll look just as dramatic as she is by raising it to that level. I think it's clear the other person just wants this to just go away, as indicated by her not engaging with the OP. I'm not confrontational by nature, so I'd be just as happy to not even address the situation again.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:05AM UTC
Hadn't thought of that but appreciate and agree with your perspective.
Bernadette M MartinezMay 19,2022 at 3:05PM UTC
She's upset she was called out on her nonsense and likely very embarrassed. This makes it imperative that you CYA and loop your manager in. Send an email with the same facts you put here and the specific dates/times as applicable just so they're aware if anything comes up--and make it clear that is the intent and not to escalate it further. Anyone that gossipy may already be talking and trying to spin things to make you look like an aggressor.
Yes, the billing manager was WAY outta line by scheduling a non-urgent meeting to gossip. I don't know that this is an HR thing though. I think the below are using that as a CYA method, which makes sense, but also seems a little extreme.
Karen GongawareMay 19,2022 at 4:27PM UTC
Wow you got played. Borderline personality disorder much? She accused you of something you did not do, repeated gossip, made it seem like it was earthshaking to you, and when confronted with this behavior makes you feel guilty for her crying. Classic bully emotional tweaker move. Now you let it go, stop feeling guilty, her tears were manipulative and that's that. No more apologizing for something you DID NOT DO! Move on.
AprilMay 19,2022 at 5:30PM UTC
Congratulations! You have displayed a level of courage and self awareness that many shy away from at work. You were not invited to a meeting that you were aware did not require your input; you graciously accepted lunch although not part of the working group; your notably busy calendar was high jacked to address an issue that was never your issue. Congrats. You said what you said. You explained why you said it. You owe no additional outreach. While unfortunate to have your manager display such emotion, recognize that she was in a bad space, responded to some inaccurate intel. You provided clarity. Congratulations. Also, you have already apologized. Carry on without bringing up the topic. She will appreciate the graceful manner in which you forget that this discussion happened!
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:04AM UTC
She is not my manager. I outrank her
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 7:11PM UTC
Figured she wasn’t your manager. But that part about you not saying anything to anyone about not getting lunch is just….ugh. This woman is a clown.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:04AM UTC
This is one of the best responses thus far.
AprilMay 22,2022 at 6:19PM UTC
Thank you. I appreciate that! I really do
AnonymousMay 19,2022 at 6:22PM UTC
Narcissism at its best.
The tears were manipulation, for having scolded her. I went through this with a supervisor. I started documenting every conversation I had with her. I gray rocked & stayed far away from her after the crying scene. My documenting eventually came in handy.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:03AM UTC
My thought excactly. The tears were manipulation.
Joanna PoeMay 19,2022 at 8:51PM UTC
This individual sounds like they are entirely too wrapped up in office politics and weren't prepared to be called on it. She'd probably be grateful if you never mentioned it again and forgot it ever happened.
Be cautious about moving meetings in the future to accommodate their requests, but it's unlikely to be repeated.
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 11:59PM UTC
Good advice
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 12:41AM UTC
So much judgement here. From a seasoned HR professional of over 25 years I have learned that the tip of the iceberg is just that. Only 20% of what you see and the remaining 80% underneath is a result of external outside factors.
My recommendation is to not raise to HR at this point, but potentially with her manager, and do so with compassion and concern. She shouldn't be falling apart like she did over a small (and may seem petty) issue. There is something larger looming underneath for her that she is potentially not coping with. It may be work related, it may be personal. It could be both. But we are still all human and women have the extra 'blessing' of bat-shit crazy hormones that we can't 'leave at the door'. Burnout, lack of psychological safety and mental health are becoming big ticket items that companies need to train leaders to identify classic symptoms and signs of. This is scenario is one. Ask your HR dept if there is anyone trained as a Mental Health First Aid Certificate holder in the organisation? I bet there isn't. If there is it is a good start. If not perhaps you could volunteer to become one. It is more fruitful than gaining validation from a community of strangers on an online chat page.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:02AM UTC
I was with you until you stated "It is more fruitful than gaining validation ....." It sounds like you are rebuking the poster for venting or seeking opinions from a community of professional women. Isn't part of the reason there is a community chat to seek others opinions, vent, seek advice? And you offer condescending advice about the manner in which she sought advice? Why are you even on here if this community chat is not a fruitful endeavor?
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 1:20AM UTC
I wish you had stopped at saying that you weren’t upset about the Wednesday lunch and were grateful for the lunch provided.
Your rebuke sounds somewhat harsh, although her reaction sounds extreme.
Your best option now: message her to let her know that you continue to think highly of her and want to clear the air (maybe over a coffee or a lunch paid for by you?) If she doesn’t respond positively, about all you can do is extend pleasant wishes on holidays or on any successes she/her department have had.
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 1:27AM UTC
NOTE: I agree with others that the billing manager could become problematic to you in the future, so do keep a personal record of the incident and keep an eye out for any rumors that billing manager might spread concerning you. Only bring HR/your manager into this if the situation escalates.
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 11:58PM UTC
Agree, thanks
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 6:27PM UTC
No, she should not message her saying she thinks highly of her.
One, because she doesn't (let's stay true to oneself & there isn't a need to suck-up). Two, that would be providing narcissistic supply (i.e., the food she needs to survive). Stay as far away from the narcissistic woman. Don't speak, if she doesn't speak!
HannahMay 20,2022 at 11:15AM UTC
hahahaha, hahaha I don't believe I was going to spend my time reading this drama.
hahaha, please let her be. Don't worry yourself about her, this will let her sit up and know some people don't appreciate unnecessary gossip. Am surprised, though you didn't talk about lunch to anyone, someone could cook a gossip out of this. It obvious, you ought to be becareful about the people, and the things you say in your company. Please move on, I don't see the need to see any HR. I wish you well.
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 11:56PM UTC
Thanks
HannahMay 22,2022 at 4:09PM UTC
welcome
Dr. Linnie CarterMay 20,2022 at 1:11PM UTC
I am aware of that - as noted in my response. However, as I also noted, "If you are a woman of color, you should definitely document this in writing. It will be her word against yours, and if your leaders are racist, they will most likely believe her over you." That is our lived experience and indicating that has nothing to do with YOUR lived experience.
AnonymousMay 21,2022 at 12:09AM UTC
Agree 1000%
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 6:13PM UTC
I have to believe that something(s) else was going wrong and you were “the straw that broke the camel’s back.”
AnonymousMay 20,2022 at 10:52PM UTC
As they say, there's no free lunch.
Liz MilneMay 22,2022 at 1:29AM UTC
Honestly - just ignore the whole situation.
Don't push it with her, don't press for any further contact, and just treat her as normal when you do naturally come into contact with each other. The whole thing sounds weird, tbh - I strongly suspect there's something going on in her life if a business meeting brings her to uncontrollable tears - but if she's happy to let it go, you do the same...
Keep a note, perhaps, of what happened as accurately as you can, but tuck it in a drawer and leave it there unless/ until you need it.
It's good you told her that you were happy for getting lunch on Tuesday and weren't bothered about *not* getting it the next day - but, yeah, otherwise, stick a pin in it!
If you do want to find out what's going on, my recommendation is do it in person, when you're both in the office, but preferably on a break - take her to lunch or for a coffee or something! Teams is awkward for getting nuance and reading body language etc, in person makes for easier communication.
Nancy DamossMay 22,2022 at 6:53PM UTC
No, do not take her to lunch! I agree, her behaviour is strange & that is how you should frame it to HR "strange." She has narcissistic tendencies!