An inappropriate Manager.

23 Comments

1. AnonymousJuly 22,2022 at 8:08PM UTC

   Sounds like you have a toxic boss.
   Don't expect him to change for you and others. Put your well being and progression first, apply elsewhere and move on. You deserve to have a boss that is productive, sets the example for others to follow and respects his staff enough to treat them with the dignity and respect you deserve. He sounds like a self absorbed prick-a-ma-stooge

2. AnonymousJuly 22,2022 at 9:29PM UTC

   I guess you either set a specific agenda and expect no small talk of allow him to ramble.

   He clearly doesn't have a connection with you so I guess the less said the better.

3. Crystal HowellJuly 23,2022 at 12:33PM UTC

   You are not growing at this company, apparently he doesn't have anyone at home to talk to or will listen to him.

   Mental health is a priority, make a move and promote yourself.

4. Janet ParkhurstJuly 25,2022 at 4:02AM UTC

   I'd say, once the business agenda is over and the conversation turns to "small talk," I'd simply stand up and say something like, "If you gentlemen will excuse me, I've got an important call I've got to jump on..." (or another meeting to attend, etc.)."

   Just don't stay for the personal exchanges. Get out and go do your job.

5. Shelby CJuly 25,2022 at 12:22PM UTC

   If it is personal in nature, why do you need to be there? I would politely (it would be easy to sound snarky given the situation), say:

   Gentlemen, as always, discussing business with you has been a pleasure. If I'm no longer needed, I'm going to excuse myself so I can get to work on the [insert name] project.

   I would also suggest that you begin making a list of projects and asking when the projected date of completion is. I used to do that to keep an unruly SVP and toddler posing as a President on task. I would say, "James, are we still on target for the widget project to be completed on August 1?" If he said no, I would say, "What can we do as a team to support you?"

   Sometimes, you have to manage the managers for lack of a better term. When you're in a company with too much leadership or a small one like to yours where everyone has a leadership role, you need to become a servant leader and lead by example. You will show them their behavior is not permissible and inappropriate. They usually stop or at least keep it away from you.

6. Heather BinghamJuly 25,2022 at 12:30PM UTC

   At the end of meetings, when they get onto personal matters, could you say nicely, with a smile, "I'm going to leave you two to your gossip, as I need to crack on with ......"? I do like to point out to some of my male colleagues that they are the best gossips in the organisation, but I keep it light and they sheepishly agree. It is a question, often, of remaining friendly, even if you signal that you want to get on with your own knitting. It does help that I'm the organisational psychologist, so I am allowed to point these things out, but I have seen female colleagues do the same and it does not produce any rancour. I can think of three very senior individuals who quite like the label of being a gossip. It is merely important to leave the judgement out of the observation if we want it to remain friendly. As you like the organisation, which is even more important than liking an individual, I hope that is something you can find useful.

7. RickJuly 25,2022 at 2:33PM UTC

   I totally full on agree. This approach in my opinion is the most successful. You have to call it out. But how you do it is critical. You want them liking you more after you call it out.

8. Cyndy TrivellaJuly 25,2022 at 12:33PM UTC

   Have you tried setting the stage at the onset of the meetings? Something such as, "I have a hard stop in XYZ minutes, so I want to make sure we cover anything upfront that requires my input and involvement. I have an agenda with a few bullets I'd like us to cover before I need to leave."

   This does a couple of things. 1) It lets your manager know you are organized and are not going to allow him to waste your time. 2) Puts you in control of your situation. 3) Allows you to leave gracefully, so you don't need to suffer his whining.

   Also, note: your manager is a boss and NOT a leader. A boss wants you to know he's important. A leader wants you to know you're important. Sadly, I think you already know which one you have.

   Good luck, and I hope you find a long-term resolution.

9. Shelby CJuly 25,2022 at 6:55PM UTC

   Well stated.

10. AnonymousJuly 25,2022 at 12:36PM UTC

    All I can say, is it won't get better. The behavior is ingrained and most likely will not change no matter what you do or say. If you can mentor with someone in the company go for it who could help be your champion or at the least help you navigate this. Figure out a way to toot your own horn so others including higher ups know what your are capable would be a good thing as well. I know you said a small office, so not sure if that means a small company or not. You may need to take the bull by the horns and have a very frank discussion with your boss. If you do that, read up on how to handle conflict management, this way your able to lay out your concerns very clearly, how the situation makes you feel and then the ask of what you want to change. It will also prepare you for any issues he may bring up or not bring up.

    I had a very similar issue, I would come to meetings prepared and ready to go. The two "boys", yes I will call them that based on behavior, would talk about different things and not be prepared for the meeting. I would present my idea(s) and help problem solve the agenda. But in my case they would then adjourn the meeting and go meet in one of their offices - my office was in a different building - same department. Unbeknownst to me, many higher ups saw them "collaborating" all the time but I was never anywhere to be found. My review came due and guess what, I was deemed a non team player. Doesn't matter I was the one who came up with the Cost Modeling solution on a project we were working on, or the fact I was able to help the division in the company I supported avoid 1 million in cost for ideas I implemented during the economic downturn many years back. The division knew what I had done, my coworkers knew what I had accomplished. Yet, I was deemed a non team player and the specific example of not being seen in an office working with others was brought up. At a annual awards meeting in our department this co-worker was given an award and bonus for my $1 million dollar project that he did not participate at all. Luckily another opportunity arose within the same company different department -I jumped on it and do not regret it one bit. My old role has gone through 6 people in 11 years.

11. Julie SencionJuly 25,2022 at 1:08PM UTC

    The type of behavior you are describing, him shutting you down when you try to contribute and only be nice when others are around, is unlikely to change. Whether he is unaware of his behavior or he does it purposely, no one has corrected him. Even with the best of intentions, I do not see your manager open to hearing you provide feedback on this to him.

    I agree with others that after the agenda is covered, professionally excuse yourself from the meeting. This way you don’t have to sit through it and you can focus on your work.

    You said this is a small office so is it correct to assume there is no one’s for you to report to whether in your current role or a different one? Going back to my initial statement , he is unlikely to change, both he and environment are toxic. It would be a good idea to start looking for a new job even if you like this one. You will grow to resent him and the job, neither of which are good for your well being.

    Finally, as I ask all employees that come to me, is anything he said been offensive, discriminatory or uncomfortable (minus the chit chat)? If so report it to the next person above him and HR (if you have one).

12. Maggie StoneJuly 25,2022 at 1:34PM UTC

    Are you the meeting leader?
    If so, you can definitely set some boundaries on personal sharing (e.g If the meeting is on Monday morning, allow a few minutes for people to share about their weekends). But, it sounds like the culture of the company lends itself to being more friendly and close knit, which happens in small companies. If it is the culture, that will be hard to address. If you are slammed with work, I think it is appropriate to politely and professionally excuse yourself. However, it seems like you are already on the outside and not participating might only make you more of an outsider. So, I think the bigger question is this: “Is the company of the culture a good fit for you?

13. KathyJuly 25,2022 at 2:59PM UTC

    Its sounds like your manager is a misogynist.

    Even if you stay in the 'meeting' in order to avoid not being seen as part of the team, you will probably never be a part of the team. Your manager only seems to value the other man's opinions. The chat is part of relationship building. Since your manager has no interest in your participation, he has no interested in creating a relationship with you and doesn't value you in the way that he should. A real leader treats everyone the same and doesn't show favorites.

    I would start looking for a new position. Don't overstay just because you like the job (I've made this mistake). Move on and find a position where the team members are all treated the same with personal chitchat relegated to lunch time or after work. Good luck!

14. AnonymousJuly 25,2022 at 3:43PM UTC

    That's not helpful.

15. Amara HafeezJuly 25,2022 at 3:56PM UTC

    I honestly think that if you should be brave and go ahead and point out these things you may find that he’s actually shocked that he comes across like that. You could word it in a kind of ‘you know what You just shut me down when I gave my opinion and that’s not nice’

    I had a similar experience with a colleague constantly making comments about my outfits which were usually very unkind comments. I spoke to a senior colleague about it and he said just be direct and tell her how you feel but you must do it at the time she does it. So one day she made a comment and I explained that I felt she was putting me down. She genuinely looked shocked and apologized.

16. AnonymousJuly 25,2022 at 4:00PM UTC

    Maybe, just maybe, being female has nothing to do with it. You said the other coworker just sits there and listens. If you want to be part of that club do the same. Maybe that is all this manager is looking for, someone to vent to. You can adopt the behavior of your coworker and see where it leads or you can leave. Personally, I would do as my coworker does for a while. If nothing changes after a month or two look elsewhere.

17. Beth Whight MoralesJuly 25,2022 at 4:30PM UTC

    Here’s the thing.

    So many times individuals will go into a company with certain professional expectations. They’ve studied, they have a great professional background or education, work should be focused on work and improving the company, professional standards are high.

    But the reality can be quite different. The political environment within any office is huge. Sometimes, at some levels, in few companies, every individual is truly there to be a contributor to the team and for the betterment of the business. Most of the time, people are fallible. Someone is promoted into a job far beyond their skill set, people are territorial, people steal ideas, the political structure says that if you want to get ahead you must do this thing that may not be strictly professional. Enter the shock of “we’ve all been told that’s not how companies should operate.” But we’ve all been given a largely theoretical situation in which professionalism is held to the highest standard, everyone can do their jobs well, everyone is appropriately friendly. It’s just not the case.

    So, if you want to get along, you have to play the game. Sit back and let your boss do the talking, nod sympathetically, etc. Maybe you’ll be bored to tears. But if they can’t self-regulate, don’t expect that there is much you can do about it.

    What you CAN do, if you want to stay at the company, is look to form relationships with other people outside of your boss’ team, and get your name out there as a viable candidate for other positions within the company. By doing this you will form relationships you need to have established when a position opens, and also gain insight into how the company is run.

    If you like the culture, great. If not, don’t expect to be able to change it. You can only affect your actions in most instances. Figure out if you’re okay with what you see, if not, make a plan to move on at some point.

18. garboJuly 25,2022 at 4:41PM UTC

    Been there in a job where the "boys club" situation extended to weekends as well. I suggest if you want to stay at the company you find a spot in a different department under a different manager. You may want to look for a layperson book on narcissistic personality disorder for tools on how to handle this type of boss.

19. AnonymousJuly 25,2022 at 5:04PM UTC

    If the meeting is veering into topics unrelated to business and you are being “shut down” when you contribute, why don’t you just ask if your presence is relevant or if the business part of the meeting is over? If 10 minutes has been an agreed upon time, that’s how long the meeting should last unless there is a thorny business issue to collaborate on.

20. AnonymousJuly 25,2022 at 8:27PM UTC

    Jobs when the line between business & personal are unrecognized are always the worst. This kind of stuff is common at family owned businesses, also workplaces where those in charge have more money than sense & let things slide which shouldn't. If you want to stay at the same business could you transfer to another department? If someone in authority has gotten that sloppy they're not likely to change, especially if they have no incentive to.

21. AnonymousJuly 26,2022 at 5:32AM UTC

    Oh, boy! No, no, no - it will not make the dude shape up! And, that is not the job of an employee - to be a therapist uninvited! People do not change unless they are motivated to do so.

    Any change or modification will need to come from the OP - finding an alternative way to handle this

22. LISA MCCARTNEYJuly 27,2022 at 2:46AM UTC

    "I'm sorry I need to go get some work done, is there anything else you need from me?"

23. Rachel BulkoJuly 28,2022 at 11:15PM UTC

    I almost have the opposite problem; when I was training for my job, both my supervisor and our team manager seemed annoyed or inconvenienced whenever I had a question. It was irritating to me, and then they wondered why I didn’t come back to them for questions when I made mistakes. Seeing how much more friendly they are toward new employees makes me feel a little bitter, but I’m trying not to take it personally. I’m just glad we aren’t short staffed anymore, to be honest.