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Anonymous

11/17/20 at 5:32PM UTC

Career

possibly odd question

I hear over and over "move up the ladder" and "advance your career"... Almost to the point that it seems finding your "niche" and staying in it is a failure or lack of improvement. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the push to be "top of your field" or "top of your organization"... Does staying in a "lesser" role and being the best you can at that role indicate a lack somehow? Lack of ambition, desire, drive? What is behind the drive to always advance, always looking for "more", "higher", or "top"? I am at a point in my career where my next move is either into a corporate role, or to a new company. I am extremely loyal, and the thought of changing companies is ... uncomfortable, to say the least. But the move to corporate might increase my chance to do part of what I love (creating, mentoring, team developing), but end another part of what I love (working directly with clients, problem solving on a one on one basis, getting to know lots of different people on a more personal level). Is choosing to stay at a specific level considered "giving up" or "lack of initiative"? I do know that if I stay where I am, I'm not being paid at the level of the work I'm doing, and that would def need to change. And I do have a possible job offer that would likely allow me to do what I love and get paid at the appropriate level. But my current employer is building future plans with me as a very important cog in the machine.... Sorry, this has really become two questions: 1) the philosophical question of "Does not pushing to advance and get to the "top" position indicate a "lack" of some sort, or is that a perfectly acceptable trait that doesn't make a person "less than"? and 2) the personal question of "How do I decide between 3 career paths (as someone nearing the end of her career time - I'm in my upper 50's) - staying put and risking not getting paid what my experience/contributions are truly worth, moving into a corporate role and losing a part of what I love doing, taking a role at another company that would probably allow for all that I love at a compensation I can accept, but knowing that I might be unable physically to do all they need and that it might entail a major move.... Plus knowing that my current employer is creating a future plan that includes me as a major contributor..... I'd love to hear thoughts on this, both philosophical and concrete.... And sorry for the anonymous nature. I'd prefer not to be anonymous, but everything is at a delicate stage right now, and I'd rather not upset things until I have to, lol!

14 Comments

Käte Davis

I help working moms leave office drama behind.

11/17/20 at 6:24PM UTC

This is a conundrum! You have what sounds like three very flattering options. First, your philosophical question. I don't (personally) feel like something is "lacking" in someone if they choose to stay in a role they love, or that they feel they are good at. I believe that employers assume that everyone wants to grow their career vertically (and good employers try to find ways to make that happen), when it may be true that someone wants more breadth of experience. I am sure it doesn't help your confusion for me to say that it's your decision - if you're contributing, and you like what you do, it's entirely up to you as to whether you stay or go on to one of these other options. On the flip side, I can only give you my personal (not professional!) opinion that I would not feel obligated to stay with an employer because they were making plans that included me. Good employees are the ones that get the other opportunities external to the company - they're the kind that all employers want to compete to have on their teams. So - do you want to move? If you do, that third option might be a great adventure. If you don't, well, there's your answer and you can eliminate one choice. Do you want to be paid more? If you do, it might mean taking on more - corporate - responsibility. Most employers pay the "chair," not the person who sits in it. So your "chair" might be worth $X to them, and regardless of how well you are doing that job, the pay for it is $X. So the employer may not have room for that change to happen - but it would be worth having that conversation. If you are willing and able to take more responsibility, you may look at a job with a chair that pays $Y. And making $Y may mean giving up some of what you love... or, it could mean learning more things that you love!

1 Reply

Diannah r

Positive reinforcement based trainer and mentor

11/17/20 at 6:37PM UTC

thank you! I love the "pay the chair" concept. It's not one I've heard before and I really love that perspective on it!

Malissa

485

Controller in the Agricultural Industry.

11/17/20 at 6:43PM UTC

I believe there are climbers and lifers. You can be a climber until you reach a place where you are comfortable to be a lifer. Some people find the place they want to be early in their career and stay. Some people climb until the day they retire. Most of us fall in between. Nothing is wrong with any part of it. Not getting paid what you are worth is a problem, no matter where you are. Honestly if you can't do parts of job #3, that probably isn't a good option, money or not. If this were me and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with my employer, I'd sit down for a talk with my boss or the powers that be. If there are future plans, you may be able to shape them in a direction that is more of a combination of what you want, rather than a take it or leave it position.

Jacquelyn Lloyd

429

HR Consultant

11/17/20 at 7:07PM UTC

Different strokes for different folks! Every team needs the climbers and the steady hands. I don't think being a steady hand means you aren't ambitious. Speak with your boss and find out what the organization's compensation philosophy is and provide details that show you are under market. That conversation will likely influence your next move. Good luck!

N T

110

I'm here to help

11/17/20 at 7:12PM UTC

Great question. I think a strong influencer for making these career decisions is your risk tolerance. Risk tolerance in the areas of 1) change and 2) salary which impacts your quality of life or living. For 1) there are people who are resistant to change and love routine. These people will be easily content with the same position until they retire. On the other side of the spectrum there are people who thrive in a constantly changing environment and see change as learning opportunities for growth. These people might seek out higher positions or may find satisfaction alone in the atypical routine of their day to day and desire to stay in their current position. As others have mentioned in their responses, most people fall somewhere in between which is probably why we stay at jobs for an average of 2-3 years before we find 2) a better salary or more suitable quality of life. For 2) I think it's perfectly acceptable to stay at a job that pays well or to work on climbing the ladder because it supports the quality of life you desire. Major life transitions warrant financial decisions to pick a more stable path to meet those new needs. Whether it's a family member who falls ill and has bills that suddenly become your responsibility or deciding to start a family, to name a few examples. One thing I do want to emphasize is having the knowledge to make the decision of whether to stay at a job in their current position or to move vertically is a skill. It employs self knowledge of where you know you work best and the type of team and environment you know you can thrive in. So I commend anyone who is able to make either decision and be proud of it.

User edited comment on 11/24/20 at 8:36PM UTC

Leilani Chee

11/17/20 at 7:57PM UTC

I do not think wanting to stay in the role that you are in or the same company is something that makes you seem "less than" or "lacking" in any way. It is wonderful that you have the option of going to a new opportunity but I would recommend looking at all of your options from different angles and choose the route that will make you happiest. That may not be the role that has a pay increase or new title and that's okay. Something you may be able to do is leverage the new potential opportunity with the great pay to improve your current situation. If you like everything about your current role and know you are a strong employee, maybe all you need to be really happy there is a pay increase and that offer may help you get there. I wish you lots of luck and just make sure you choose what will make you happiest and don't worry what others think of that choice :)

Anonymous

11/17/20 at 9:55PM UTC

So many people are so busy climbing that they are not focusing on the job that they do have.

Cheryl Johnson

Producer, Art Director, and Outsourcing Manager

11/17/20 at 10:15PM UTC

1) I think this really depends on who you ask and where they are in life. There are some people who will always want "more". Nothing will ever be good enough for them, or maybe they just feel the need to constantly better themselves by learning new skills and having new experiences instead of honing the ones that they currently have. But I believe that there are more people who eventually find something that they love and see no incentive to do anything else, and why would they? Isn't being happy the ultimate goal? We're brainwashed into thinking that our self worth should be entirely tied to our careers, live to work instead of work to live. That works on some people, and in their eyes, not moving upward is a lack and a sign of weakness. For those of us who can see through that (whether or not we can apply this to ourselves), being happy with what you do, staying where you are is nothing to be ashamed of. If anything, you've achieved the dream that we're all searching for, so good for you! Plus, why would you want to move up the ladder if it means working with people who are just going to look down at you and compare your situation to their achievements? Do what makes you happy and ignore everything else that you reasonably can. The only time you'll have to worry about what other people think is if they're interviewing you for a new job, and even then, why would you want to work with someone who has that attitude? :) 2) Personally, I see this coming down to 3 things: will you be happy; will you be respected and paid what you're worth, and what are your chances of staying with a company. It sounds like you'd be happy where you are if they'd pay you more or with the new company, but that you wouldn't be happy if you change positions within your current company. So, +1 for current company in same role and +1 for new company. If your boss is planning the future of his company to include you, then he must respect you and see your value. This also means that you are more likely to be retained/have a sustainable future at your current company. If you were to switch companies, you'd have to start that groundwork all over again, and there's no grantee that your new boss or coworkers would show you the respect that you deserve. +1 current company Right now, your current company is up a point. So then it comes down to whether or not your boss will pay you for your worth. He obviously respects you and thinks that you are valuable, so sit down and have a talk with him. Let him know that you like your job and love the company, and that you're looking forward to helping the company grow. Tell him that you'd be willing to take on some new responsibility, but that you don't want to give up whatever in your current role makes you happy, and that you'd like to be paid accordingly. You can present all of the ways that your skills and talents have grown since you started and what you've done for the company to prove your worth, which he seems to already know so you shouldn't get much pushback there, and express that you'd like to be paid to compensate your skill growth and contributions. If he refuses, you could use the "I have another job offer, and they're offering me X to leave" card, but be careful if you do. Once you pull that card you can't put it back, and if you throw it out there, he doesn't bite, and you don't follow through, you've lost all of your bargaining power. But then again, if he doesn't bite, even knowing how invaluable you are, then he's just using you and you probably don't want to work for him anyway. Doing so would be trading job security for a lack of pay. However, if you're okay with that, then that's okay, too. It all comes down to you, your priorities, and what you think will make things easier for you. :) So my advice, for what it's worth, is this: 1. Talk to your boss and see if he'll pay you more. You can offer to take on some extra responsibility to meet him half way, as long as you make sure that you're paid for it. 2. If he will, great! :D If he won't, you need to decide if job security is more important than pay. 3. If it is, stay in your current role at your current company. If it's not, consider moving to a different company. And no matter what you choose, as long as it's a step that you think will make you happier in the long run, then it's the right choice, no matter what anyone tells you. :)

Alisa Blum

Enhancing Individual & Organizational Success

11/17/20 at 10:16PM UTC

Sounds like there might be potential with your current employer to get what you want. Before meeting with your employer, think about how to make the case for keeping certain parts of your job that you like the best, knowing that there may be additional responsibilities you will need to take on if you want an increase in pay.

Jackie Ghedine

3.9k

Coach for Gen X Women | Jack Russell of Humans

11/18/20 at 12:51PM UTC

First, if you are climbing the ladder because you think it's what you should do then you are living up to other people's expectations. What fulfills each of us is different. For some it's climbing the corporate ladder and continuously pushing ourselves to be more successful. For others, they enjoy working and want it to be part of their life not their entire life. It takes more courage to do what you want (not climbing the ladder) then to keep doing what you believe is expected of you or from you. Everyone has to do what makes them happy and there is no right or wrong to this and anyone who tells you otherwise is pushing their beliefs onto you. As for the second part of your question, there are a lot of layers here. The first thing to do is to understand your core values and then how each option aligns with them. If security is a core value, leaving the organization may be very difficult for you so you would have to look to see how you can find 'security' in a new position. In making any big decision likes this, I would outline what's most important to you and then put a weight against them. Then do a list of what each position has, this will at least start tilting you towards one way or another. I would also separate yourself from the decision. Talk to yourself as if you were a friend asking for advice. Removing some of the emotions of decision-making (we at The Resting Mind identify the 5 emotions of decision-making, guilt, love, fear, trust, indifference) will provide you with a wider perspective. If you decide that you want to stay, it sounds like you're holding more cards than you believe you are. If they are levering your expertise and ideas when building out the business then you need to use that to your advantage. Be very direct about what you want your new role to look like and how by keeping you there, it will benefit the company. Even salary, be upfront, explaining the market value for what you do against their salary structure and have discussions about being increased to be aligned with those stats. We Gen X women, tend to stay in jobs for a long time which can tend to hurt our salaries (increases internally versus jumping externally). If you are interested in staying you need to have the job reflect what you want. The one piece of advice, don't stay because of fear of what change will bring. It's uncomfortable and uncertain and it is also exciting and challenging too. Good luck!

Misty Riedel

11/20/20 at 2:56PM UTC

We often define success with other people's measuring sticks. Success often means being secure, competent, and in a position where you are able to maintain a work-life balance. Think about YOUR definition. There is no calendar to keep up with or race when defining success. Write your own definition. Then you can decide what races to run.

Beth Daniell

11/20/20 at 3:38PM UTC

There was a great quote I heard (and thought I had written down but who knows where :D) that said something like, it takes a lot of strength to keep your path when everyone else is reaching for brass rings - even if you don't like brass or rings. Basically, do you. It's all a trade off in the end. Is the extra money you would get with a new job and employer worth the mental and emotional stress (good and bad) of the move? Is it going to be significant enough that it will impact the quality of life you can afford for yourself after retirement? Are you bored in what you're doing right now? I ask myself these questions a lot at my job because I've been with my company for 19 years. Am I still here because I'm afraid of going somewhere else? Is my network here going to outweigh a new challenge or creative boost somewhere else? If you have a receptive boss, discuss these concerns with that person. If you are a valued member of the organization, they'll work with you to see that you stay engaged and have opportunities. That may be worth a slightly less monetary payoff if you like and trust the people you work with. Best of luck!

Jenna Curtis

Brand Protection Expert / Skilled Communicator

11/20/20 at 4:01PM UTC

Moving up is great if it is fulfilling the items that are important to you, but it can also come at a cost. It sounds like you're at a place in a career where you're happy with your job, but could be making more money. I think there's no harm in looking and being picky about the things you would move for. Work life balance, salary, day-to-day tasks, title, manager, and company culture could all play a part depending on how much you value each and finding the right combination is vital to your success and happiness.

Anonymous

11/20/20 at 5:35PM UTC

Hello there and what an interesting post. My response is not an answer but more ideas for consideration. Our culture is very much about forward and upward motion. The terms associated with success use themes like (go-getter, up and coming, on the move) and so on. This makes bucking the ladder system so much harder but there is nothing inherently wrong with placing the intrinsic satisfaction one receives from their present position over moving up. But there will be outcomes from this choice with lower compensation being one of them. And there is no guarantee that if you decline the potential internal opportunity, that your current position will remain the same. Decisions are about a desired future state. As you mull what comes next it appears your decision making is informed by the work you want to do and the salary you want to be paid. Keep in mind that positions have set salary structures and many employees experience tension between the reality of that structure and their personal perceptions of worth. You don’t sound that keen on the third option and frame it with positives yet strongly worded negatives (physical inability and a major move). If you choose this path then negotiate the salary you want and consider negotiating a multi-year contract because you are at a point where ageism is real. Although you mention loyalty, it also sounds as though you enjoy the company for which you are currently working. It is both motivating and flattering to know that you are being included in advancement plans but until you see an actual approved org chart it is a plan. And the trade offs between your current position and the potential corporate position don’t sound bad but what is interesting is that it is never described as an opportunity. It seems as though the salary is the greater issue and here are some questions. How long would you like to stay in the workforce? Would your future financial situation be better served with a higher salary at this point in your life? Have you reached the top of your current pay scale? And if you do not take advantage of advancement now, what is the likelihood of it being offered again? The corporate ladder discussion is theoretical but since you've stated you can't continue on your present path then it's a moot point. Good luck moving forward!