Why is this not discriminatory behavior due to age and/or color?

31 Comments

1. AnonymousApril 28,2023 at 11:37PM UTC

   I don't blame you. I would not like those options either.

2. AnonymousApril 29,2023 at 12:26PM UTC

   It probably is that old double-edged discrimination sword. But it is so difficult to prove. This is a hard decision to make, but if it were me, I would take the "pressuring me into it" job, and start looking for another.

3. AnonymousApril 29,2023 at 2:06PM UTC

   Parts of your narrative are missing. Did your boss say to you: you’re being demoted because you’re a minority, aging and a female? My guess is that it probably didn’t happen this way.

   You make no mention of your performance in this role, which frankly, leaves a big gap for the reader. As another poster said, seek constructive feedback to better understand why you’re being demoted and moved into this junior role. If you’re prohibited from applying for this senior role, your company has no confidence in you.

   Regardless of the outcome, the writing is unfortunately on the wall for you. Your time at this organization is coming to an end. Aggressively start to look for other jobs and craft an exit on your own terms. Best of luck in your next steps.

4. AnonymousApril 29,2023 at 6:26PM UTC

   Actually a formal complaint was made by an employee against my manager in how she spoke to me and she was reprimanded. It’s been an ongoing issue since that time.

5. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 3:00PM UTC

   Are you able to go above thar poorly micromanager?

6. Balanced372207April 29,2023 at 6:27PM UTC

   Most employers are not stupid enough to tell you that they are discriminating against you because of age/race/gender. I am a woman of color who has been in the job market for 52 years, and in that time, I have learned to read the "signals" that lets one know when he or she is being discriminated against.

7. AnonymousApril 30,2023 at 9:46PM UTC

   Yeah I’m white but a woman over 50 who was once extremely overweight. I agree there are most definitely signals. It’s real. I wish people could understand that.

8. Balanced372207May 1,2023 at 10:38PM UTC

   Yes, ma'am. It happens to white women, too. Especially if you aren't tall, thin, blonde, and a size 4.

9. AnonymousApril 29,2023 at 2:56PM UTC

   Why can’t you apply for the higher level role? What is their reasoning there??

10. AnonymousApril 29,2023 at 6:27PM UTC

    The new role will automatically go to my peer. There will be no competition.

11. Louise ByrneMay 1,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    To me, it sounds like you need more clarification and also the opportunity to explain what it looks and feels like to you.

    Without being given a rationale, it’s so easy to jump to a wrong conclusion (or maybe right) but assuming never did anyone any favours.

    Avoid further angst, grab the bull by the horns and set up a frank conversation to understand what, why and how. Then you can decide whether you need to take further formal action, accept it or look for somewhere that will treat you as you’d expect.

    Until you do that, you’re just getting yourself worked up and miserable, and that’s not sustainable.

12. AnonymousApril 30,2023 at 3:52PM UTC

    Can you give more details? What have your last 3 reviews said about performance? Aside from tenure/being older (I’m 51) what clear, positive items have you brought to your team, and, what is the relationship you have with that team?

13. AnonymousApril 30,2023 at 7:07PM UTC

    I worked with the manager for not quite a year. She had no previous experience in the role. Her personality is aggressive and demeaning and is an admitted micromanager. As a manager, I put into place several processes to improve communication which was nonexistent, brought in agencies that were successful and stabilized the team. I’ve never had a review less than stellar in my career. These changes were done in my first and only year. My direct manager is the only person I have conflict with. Her micro aggressive behavior is not unfamiliar to others but they do not report to her.

14. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 12:38AM UTC

    Well, with that, I would say it sounds like there is possibly a lack of infrastructure or financial security within the company that they don’t wanna talk about. For instance, the person who would now be your manager I doubt is going to get the salary of two people.

    (No matter how you decide to handle this internally I would definitely start looking for other work at another company.)

    In the meantime, if you felt comfortable, I would address it with the person or persons that have made the ‘option’ and positively and calmly mention that you have always received stellar reviews so you are curious as to why this is happening now.

    But, I also say, from experience, you need to be wise in the fact that often, when people have done something they should not be doing, they don’t like to be questioned, and they may feel backed into a corner, so they could demote you even more or even let you go.

    Also, the others may disagree, but I don’t think it would hurt to reach out to the EEOC.

15. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 12:15PM UTC

    Corporate restructuring is not unheard of, and the reality is you are not promised longevity, stability, or consistent promotion without a contract in place- which in most industries is no longer a standard. There's far too much missing from this narrative to make a solid conclusion, but years of experience does not make you the best fit for a job. If you have not had a conversation with the person who shared this news clarifying the options you need to do that first.

16. Paula BrantnerMay 1,2023 at 1:13PM UTC

    Managers will not often say that it's because of age or race. So the question becomes whether there were enough disparities in how you were treated that someone could infer that was the case. The reality is that when you've been in a job for less than a year, there's not much data to go on. You're not similarly situated to someone who has been in the same workplace for a decade or longer, and then suddenly starts getting bad reviews (particularly when someone new comes in who may harbor different bias than a previous supervisor.)

    Personally, I would get away from this manager and take the other job that isn't supervisory, as long as the pay is the same. It sounds like they're the problem here, particularly if others have complained, and that you're never going to get ahead as long as you're under them. There are a lot of new managers who are threatened by someone they see as competent. I'm assuming they were made a manager after excelling at a lower level, which means they already have allies at the company and are not going away any time soon.

17. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 1:31PM UTC

    Why were you honestly given the option for a new role or to take a demotion? A demotion usually indicates there are performance or misconduct issues justifying the action. It sounds like maybe you were not performing to the level expected of the managerial role based solely in the information youve provided, unrelated to race or age.

18. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

    Regardless if this is about race or age, you should try to seek clarity. It seems like you and your direct manager did not get along, which is one reason the options were given.Talk to HR to see if you can transfer to another department without taking a non-managerial role. On a resume, it will look like you choose to step down because you prefer or cannot handle a managerial role. It will be harder to explain when you are looking for a new job for a managerial role. If clarity is lacking, which often happens in corporations, start looking for a new job immediately. You don't want to stay in a job where people don't value you.

19. AnneMay 1,2023 at 2:14PM UTC

    This is disrespectful, to the person who posted this and to recruiters in general.

20. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 2:41PM UTC

    This isn't the first time G C has made this type of comment...

21. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 4:02PM UTC

    No, you’re right, I’ve seen her comment similarly on other posts. She’s literally the nastiest person I’ve ever seen on here. She’s clearly miserable, sitting around blaming her problems on everyone else or she wouldn’t feel the need to say such nasty things. She needs to go find some miserable troll group over on Reddit to bond with and be ignorant with because this is not her tribe here. We support each other or we stfu and move on with our day if we can’t contribute in a helpful way.

22. AnneMay 1,2023 at 2:19PM UTC

    I believe you are getting shafted, although it's hard to know for sure without more details about why the company is reorganizing.

23. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 2:39PM UTC

    G C Hesse, you need to get off this platform. This is a women’s empowerment platform where we support each other. Every time I see your name you’ve got something ignorant, ageist and borderline racist to say. Your attitude is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. If you don’t have anything nice to say, go somewhere else with your miserable negativity.

24. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 3:11PM UTC

    Same happened to me at age 64 (and trust me, I'm a youthful 64, no where near looking to retire), Nonetheless, I was demoted from reporting to a C-suite executive to a manager who didn't like me because she wasn't given any choice in hiring me into basically an entry level position, They reorganized the entire C-suite. She made it clear that since I wasn't of a certain race (that 90% of the employee and client population was), I was not valued and I felt discriminated against. I stayed 2 years, only because they preserved my salary, but finally went on leave (stress) due to that manager.Thankfully found a new job during my leave with 15k more, and back in C-suite for 3 yrs now loving my job.

25. Jody LaflenMay 1,2023 at 4:31PM UTC

    Sneaky stuff when companies do this, because the underlying reasons for their shafting you are so hard to proce. I’m guessing they haven’t put much of this into writing/email that legal counsel didn’t first approve, but collect and save any relevant documentation on these “choices “ you’ve been given. Save also your past 5-10 years of what I suspect are positive evaluations/reviews. Then tell them you need to discuss this with your employment attorney before any further discussions can be had, and get an employment attorney. Many groups like the ACLU or NAACP may be able to connect you with one. I’m sorry this is happening to you.

26. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 4:45PM UTC

    Do you have reasons why they are removing you from managing people? Have their been complaints about your leadership style? Is the team compressing? Why do you not get to apply for the other role? do it! Are they consolidating teams? if that is the case they may have taken into consideration ratings from within the team, internal customer sat, and metrics to make that decision to rank him above you. Often times its a combination of factors that decide in larger companies. It's not always about age and race. If you do think you have been slighted specifically for those reasons you may have to provide proof or make it a "thing" internally which could be dramatic for your tenure there if it's presented in a negative light. Take the time to put together a portfolio of the reasons you should be considered for the job he is going to get, and why you are the best choice for overall leadership of the team. If this is not going to work for you or your ego cannot handle it then definitely look around for somewhere that you can remain in a management role. As a final point of reference perhaps he was going to give notice and they don't want to lose him so they are promoting him, or during his hiring they promised him something above where they hired him? If those factors play into this there is little that you can do. Good luck.

27. Liz MilneMay 1,2023 at 5:18PM UTC

    I would certainly raise the question, especially if your reviews and one-to-ones are all good.

28. DeBorah WalkerMay 1,2023 at 5:23PM UTC

    No you are not wrong for feeling you are being shafted. It apoears to be quite obvious with your choices. However, has their been any prior disussions about your role, performance, or other positions you seem fit for?

    Do you have someone who knows your tenure, and work performance that can advocate for you? If not I would choose the best position and start looking for outside employment...because unless you have a solid advocate, at best your situation is demoralizing, at it's worse you will not feel like coming to work...

29. Kathy LeskiMay 1,2023 at 5:56PM UTC

    It sounds like your company is flattening the org structure and giving more direct reports to managers. My team went through something similar when the company I worked for at the time was holistically changing job titles across the company- they went from something around 600 business titles to 125. As a result, my customer services team needed to fit into two titles- rather than demoting, we promoted those in the lowest level. However, we did not change their wages UNLESS they fell below the band. (I worked hard on parity, so none were actually below). Did folks who were in the more senior level get upset, yes. But I did explain the choices we had- which would have been demoting the middle tier. No matter the choice, not everyone would be happy. Do you know if this is a similar case? are they eliminating the "Recruiter" title for "Sr Recruiter? and are they reducing the # of managers? If the latter, and they treat it as a layoff (also a common occurrence in a previous employer)- they would do what's called a "paired comparison"- There needed to be at least 3 managers (above the category's grade) that do a one-to-one comparison of all in that role. if there was 3, the did 6 comparisons, 4 would be 24, etc. Then HR would do the calculation to create a list in order of the paired comparison. Final steps, at least in that company- was to draw a line based on last performance review, usually at either the proficient or performing above. If there wasn't a clean line based on those two, they would use seniority to select one over the other (seniority winning out). If there was still a tie- and yes, it did happen once to me, we found another path for the cost savings and kept both and if there was a role near to their position, or another dept they were skilled for, they'd be offered that choice. I've always felt that process was the fairest. Keep in mind, that if the job was posted, it would mean anyone could apply for the role, at least within that company, and frankly, that would create a greater risk to those already there.

30. AnonymousMay 1,2023 at 6:52PM UTC

    I recommend simply asking how the decision was made to reduce the management to one recruiter and what the selection criteria was. It is very difficult to assume it is race or age. I think when you hear the explanation it will become more clear as to the methodology and then you can handle from there with that base knowledge.

31. AnonymousMay 2,2023 at 3:54AM UTC

    The reality of life certainly in this country means there is still injustice and the issue becomes what if anything one is going to do about it. Only you can ascertain whether or not you believe you were unjustly treated and whether or not it's worth your efforts to fight what you consider injustice.