I’m a director at a very small company.

Anonymous

February 28,2023 at 2:23PM UTC

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I’m a director at a very small company. I supervise a few people and I report to the executive director. One of the people I supervise has been with the company for decades and has no desire to ever retire. Based on what she’s said, she’s probably in her late 60s or 70s. Reminds me of some of my relatives who were like “I’ll retire when I’m dead & buried.” That’s not for me, but I’m not messing with anyone who wants to work like that. Anyway, when I joined the company a few years ago, the ED asked me about her performance/ability etc and I was surprised he sounded like he wanted to push her out and he was dancing around ageist arguments for it. Her work was solid and all that, which I explained to him and all was good. But recently she’s been much more forgetful about bigger things - going back to doing some things that we as a team changed over a year ago. So that’s increasing in frequency plus it’s taking longer and longer to guide her to anything that’s a little different, and that’s difficult because the nature of our work is that each project has modifications/customizations. Big picture, I’m concerned there’s something going on with her that’s hopefully normal with age (I’ve seen a lot of similarities with some of my family) but can’t say anything both because it’s inappropriate and she does get easily defensive. She lives alone, no kids, scattered siblings who she sees infrequently, so we see her the most, which makes me think if there is something going on, we may be most likely to see it. I don’t want to talk to the ED about this (he doubles as our HR since we’re so small) because he’s too mercurial and would probably see it as a way to do something horribly ageist. Which is probably why she’s so careful with her words. Anyway, any advice for how to try to check in on her health without crossing the line?

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AnonymousFebruary 28,2023 at 5:48PM UTC
This is tough. Unfortunately, you need to keep in mind that you're her employer, and not her family. If she comes to you with health concerns, you can and should respond appropriately with support, etc. However, unless/until that happens, your evaluation of her should be based on her job performance. Provide feedback when she makes a mistake and offer coaching/discipline in line with your company's policies. Bring up performance concerns real-time and be sure to document them in her reviews. Her being defensive is not an excuse for her to produce poor work, nor is it an excuse for her management team to ignore problems. These guidelines apply regardless of the individual's age. If and when you're notified of health issues, you can decide how to allow her to gracefully scale back, exit, or move into a consulting/individual contributor role, as may be warranted or desired by both parties. To do so prematurely may open you up to discrimination allegations, especially if it involves a pay cut with no indication of prior poor performance, which is why it's important to provide consistent feedback, starting now. Hope that helps!
Michelle S.February 28,2023 at 5:59PM UTC
Hey, I don’t envy your position, but I think that you’re probably a really amazing supervisor and your staff is very lucky for that. In my humble opinion, I would start documenting or document examples of these occurrences so that when you take it to her, the only thing you’re discussing, is these lapses in memory or judgment, and how they were affected a project or the company. Use it as a check in, and let her know that defensiveness is not going to be conducive to a healthy talk. Good luck, I don’t envy your position, but I think you’re a really great person for not just writing her off like others would.
AnonymousMarch 1,2023 at 12:06PM UTC
This is really helpful - thank you all both for your sound advice and kind words. The scope of the work is all desk- work. No physical safety issues that would result from any lapses of our processes etc. so I’ve got plenty of time to document anything and discuss at our regular 1:1 if it comes up again. Hopefully it won’t, but now I’m better prepared. Thank you!
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 1:49PM UTC
As a 60 something year old woman who is perfectly happy in her middling management role and no desire to progress further but with an ED who sounds much like your's. Thank you for supporting your employee where they are.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 5:41PM UTC
Great. And when you do (I like the coffee idea), see if there’s some unusual stresses in her life. Those same symptoms appears with people of all ages if experiencing more stress. Be patient and I like the idea of putting things in writing when it’s a customization or having her write it to make sure you’re both on the same page. You’re a wonderful leader to care and seek advice on ways to address this issue. I wish you both the best.
Vanda LeeMarch 2,2023 at 4:24PM UTC
Excellent approach!
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 1:58PM UTC
also just throwing "out there" that depression can show itself by some of the same symptoms as "dementia"....inattentiveness, forgetfulness, malaise and a host of other things. So yes....be kind. and Be fair. it's easy to pin her age on this but according to AAFP, memory loss and dementia are not "normal" signs of aging. Your peer might be unwell, and it's great if you advocate for her as a person...not as an "old" person.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 2:24PM UTC
Ageism is real and I applaud you for supporting an older worker. A recent NYT article did wonderful reporting on how difficult it can be for people nearing retirement to keep jobs / find new ones. We all know the social system in the US isn't going to financially support everyone in old age, and people need to keep working.
What if you just took her out regularly for coffee and had a general chat? See the side of her that's a person, not just an employee, and maybe you'll uncover more about the issue that way. If it is a health issue, such as dementia, these things are best caught early. I do hope that is not the case for her, however.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 2:35PM UTC
First find out her real age, it may be that it is time for her to be able to retire. She sounds like she is having older age brain issues. You are her employer, not her family. You cannot make it a personal issue, your job is to protect your company.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 5:59PM UTC
Sorry, no. Finding out her age is irrelevant (and likely illegal). This needs to be based on job performance alone.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 2:46PM UTC
“Ageism” is a discriminatory practice with no basis in fact. Age related memory loss and cognitive decline is not an acceptable condition to be dealt with by HR or the company. If she cannot perform at 100%, she must be dealt with appropriately. It doesn’t mean firing her, but changes to her position may be warranted. Check with an attorney first and get it in writing before approaching the employee.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 3:00PM UTC
Are you an experienced manager? No employee is giving 100% all the time. This is a statement of idealism.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 4:25PM UTC
Ageism does indeed exist. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 7:15PM UTC
I think my wording didn’t post well. I meant to convey that Ageism is real and is discrimination. However “age related “ decline is not something HR is well versed at dealing with.
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 2:59PM UTC
She’s “forgetful” and “it takes longer to explain things to her.”
1) Were these practices communicated adequately? Are these new practices written down anywhere?
2) Does she have an undiagnosed disability or accommodation? Does she have a different learning style?
3) So what?
Bias is when we have a thought and don’t act on it. Prejudice is when we have a thought AND we act on it.
These “claims” are normal things that happen with anyone at any age. We allforget details now and then. We all take timeto understand.
I think you need more facts Regarding performance. Until then, its all very subjective.
Barbara WhiteMarch 3,2023 at 3:00PM UTC
Great advice! Very professional and performance-based, yet also gives her a chance to discuss what may be going on. Thank you!
Linda HeathMarch 3,2023 at 5:22PM UTC
I just want to commend the OP for being thoughtful, recognizing and confronting the potential for ageism. You are kind and open-minded to take age into consideration and other possibilities as well. (I am not HR.)
AnonymousMarch 3,2023 at 11:40PM UTC
A lot of people have posted really sound, thoughtful advice for you. I just want to add that assuming her age is the root cause of the issues you have described could be construed more as discriminatory than empathetic if you don’t allow yourself to consider other reasons. It could be that she’s burned out after years of working for the jerk above you. Imagine feeling like you could not make a single mistake at your job, a place where you spend half of your waking life, because someone is just waiting to see it happen. That kind of stuff can cause anyone at any age to go into a deep depression.
AnonymousMarch 4,2023 at 7:32PM UTC
I think you take her outside of your work environment. If you have a personal enough relationship with her to be inside of her home that will be very telling if she is having issues with memory loss. Things will be askew and she may in her own element be much more direct about it. I think its fantastic that you care enough about your co-worker to think about her overall well-being as many employers simply do not. Our workforce is aging and yes, old people do need to work especially as the economy is forcing many to with the high cost of living. Keep doing what you are doing and if you need to write a reminder handbook just for her use do it. Huge, appreciation for your empathy for others!
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