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My employee quit today after being disciplined two days ago, and I want to learn from it.

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Anonymous

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My employee quit today after being disciplined two days ago, and I want to learn from it. The need for discipline was apparent. We're a non-profit with volunteers. A volunteer reported an incident to me that violated our handbook in no uncertain terms (dropping the f-bomb, directed at the volunteer). A second volunteer confirmed the account. The staff member admitted it. Our handbook would have allowed for a written warning, but I opted for a verbal warning, as it was a first offense. The staff member accepted it at the time, and we spent yesterday working on regrouping and moving forward. Today, she abruptly declared that the way she was treated was not fair, and quit. It was a surprise. In hindsight, I still think the discipline was correct. I offered to help the staff member with coaching, training, etc. to prevent a repeat. She refused, and said, "I was right and I would do it again." I am trying to figure out how I can do better in the future, too. Where does a new manager start to unpack and learn these things?

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  1. Anonymous

    In some cases, feedback might have been better without an official verbal warning. It’s also important to give volunteers the space to talk about their perspective of what happened and they might not realize what they’re doing wasn’t okay. Coaching is more effective compared to giving an official verbal warning.

  2. BeaBoss328422

    There is no excuse for cursing at workmates in a hostile manner. Or even jokingly. It’s not appropriate.

  3. Anonymous

    It totally depends on the workplace as far as in a joking manner. I know some workplaces where no one will bat an eye if someone drops an f-bomb or other curse word. In many workplaces, it would not be acceptable, but in some, it is. In my department, we joke around a lot, and it isn't uncommon for someone to jokingly flip off someone else. But, we all work well together, we help each other out, we communicate our issues to each other. I adore my department coworkers because we really are more like a family than coworkers.

  4. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I don't know that there's necessarily anything you need to learn here.

    You said the need for discipline was apparent. Two volunteers confirmed what happened, the employee admitted to it. Unless you wanted to ignore it (not fair to your volunteers to let them be treated that way) or do some coaching, I'd say you handled it correctly.

    Based on the employees subsequent behavior, I'd say you dodged a bullet here. Saying that she was right to treat colleagues in a disrespectful way and that she would do it again, leads me to believe attempts at coaching would have gotten you nowhere.

    She literally told you she would do it again. I'd say you're well rid of her. We have folks on here complaining every single day how they work in a toxic workplace. Putting your foot down and not letting your volunteers be treated badly is how you stop that from happening.

    I'd say well done you.

  5. Anonymous

    While we shouldn't treat others disrespectfully, we don't know if the volunteer was treating the employee in a disrespectful manner. A second volunteer may either have been involved in disrespectful behavior or may have only seen the employee's reaction, but not the volunteer's behavior. We don't know the whole situation, and unless the OP asked, they don't know either.

  6. June Greener

    I believe this person may have felt humilated ,hurt pride ,their attitude was wrong. I wouldn't feel bad.

  7. Jackie Daniels

    What was the full situation?

    while the discipline felt right, were you able to validate the concern she felt?

  8. Anonymous

    I was once reprimanded at a job for breaking a rule.
    I had been working there for four years and never broken a rule. When I did, I felt completely justified. So I quit on the spot. Why? Not once did my leader ask me why I had done it. I felt great quitting and never looked back. I should probably add that I had the highest performance rating at the place, and was later offered to come back, but turned it down.

  9. Emily

    I can’t get over the word “discipline” being used talking about an adult who you incentivize to work for you. This isn’t a child you are raising. I can see how her being an unpaid intern might make you feel like you’re someone her “disciplinarian” but you’re not.

    you are two grown adults who are trying to work in an EQUALLY beneficial environment. Once you make the environment about you and your needs and discipline and don’t include in that anywhere mutual respect for her needs and desires, you have created an environment that is hostile and undesirable. Jobs are replaceable. There are millions of them all over the globe and with the internet we can work anywhere.

    if you are approaching your staff with a mindset that says “the NEED for discipline was apparent” you are absolutely doing it wrong and you are not a good manager. Period. No if’s ands or butts about that. These are HUMAN BEINGS that are not required to work for you. So if you care more about your professional goals than you do about your staffs human needs, then you deserve to fail at your job and have staff quit on you left and right.

    im going to think it’s safe to assume you have 0 years of managerial education, so you should take the time to research how to be a good manager. Read up on it. You need to.

  10. Anonymous

    I wish I could give your reply an extra vote, as it exactly mirrors how I feel.

    It seems to me that there are two groups here. Those who see the role of an employer as that of a stern parent, and those who see it as closer to that of a friend or mentor. I may be wrong, but I suspect that this reflects patterns going back to childhood. Either way, so much more can be accomplished by not taking the parent role.

  11. Susan Kuhn

    What can you learn? Let me add this thought. The whole way you're looking at this is impersonal. There was a rule that was broken and you were going to discipline this person. And it didn't get the result you wanted, which is to retain the employee. The higher we advance, the more personal things are. You might have put her first, not the handbook. He might have said this doesn't sound like you and I'm wondering what was going on that might have stressed you out to the point of doing this. Let's see if there is anything we can change that would relieve your stress. Also remember that sometimes the most significant things are unspoken. Being treated in a warm and caring way when she knows she's screwed up would be very nourishing. None of us are at our best right now for all kinds of reasons. Compassion is the power tool we all can access. Being treated extremely well, you might say better than you deserve, creates loyalty and is not forgotten.

  12. Anonymous

    i’d like to add that it’s also perfectly ok if swearing when provoked actually does “sound like her”! It’s an F-bomb, not a declaration of civil war.

    More importantly: It doesn’t matter. The time to make character assessments was during the hiring process. A manager in this situation doesn’t need to be concerned with whether or not the behavior is consistent with the employee’s personality, that’s not your place. Your job as a manager is to address the situation for what it is: a rule was broken and you need to know why. “The employee handbook explicitly states that profanities are not allowed while working. What happened that lead to you swearing at the volunteer?”

  13. Anonymous

    The only thing you might want to do in the future is to meet with your entire team, quarterly for instance, to reiterate the company policy about maintaining a safe and respectful workplace.

    At those meetings, remind everyone what the reporting steps are, that there will be a prompt and impartial investigation into allegations, and that some form of discipline will occur if allegations are confirmed.

    I believe you are in the 5% that actually handled the situation appropriately. However else the now separated employee appeared, that person was a bad hire because of the behavior and the likely recidivism.

    You're a star for wanting to learn from this situation even though you handled it exceptionally well.

  14. Emily

    I can’t get over the word “discipline” being used talking about an adult who you incentivize to work for you. This isn’t a child you are raising. I can see how her being an unpaid intern might make you feel like you’re someone her “disciplinarian” but you’re not.

    you are two grown adults who are trying to work in an EQUALLY beneficial environment. Once you make the environment about you and your needs and discipline and don’t include in that anywhere mutual respect for her needs and desires, you have created an environment that is hostile and undesirable. Jobs are replaceable. There are millions of them all over the globe and with the internet we can work anywhere.

    if you are approaching your staff with a mindset that says “the NEED for discipline was apparent” you are absolutely doing it wrong and you are not a good manager. Period. No if’s ands or butts about that. These are HUMAN BEINGS that are not required to work for you. So if you care more about your professional goals than you do about your staffs human needs, then you deserve to fail at your job and have staff quit on you left and right.

    im going to think it’s safe to assume you have 0 years of managerial education, so you should take the time to research how to be a good manager. Read up on it. You need to.

  15. Anonymous

    No one deserves to fail at their job or deserves to be shamed when reaching out for help. OP asked to learn. We all deserve to learn from our mistakes.

  16. Anonymous

    I’m going to add to this because RIGHT ON!

    the very introduction “my employee quit” we need a mindset shift here. They’re not “yours” they’re an employee of the company you also work for. Your responsibilities may be to ensure their responsibilities are communicated and completed. But at the end of the day, your mission is to serve your direct reports to ensure they can be as successful as possible in their mission.

    This sense of ownership… possession… it reeks of male dominance and opens up this mindset of disciplining/parenting your employees.

  17. Catherine Musgrave

    I would want to understand what led to the cursing at a volunteer. Yes, it is not acceptable. But (there is always a but), there may have been underlying issues that you are not aware of, is there something going on with your employee otherwise. Everyone likes to believe that personal matters should be left at the door while at work, more often than not this doesn’t happen so a manager needs to take heed to that and work to get the whole picture. Never easy being a manager.

  18. Madam anon663

    I am curious to know what situation made her feel the F bomb was warranted. Was she being bullied and standing up for herself? Did you ask? Did you find out what the whole situation was before "disciplining" her? If you didn't, and spoke to her as a boss, instead of a human, then I don't blame her for quitting.

  19. Anonymous

    Did you ask the employee for their side of the story? There are some situations where breaking a rule is justified. For example, if a volunteer or employee is doing something dangerous to life or the organization (allowing confidential information to be visible to all, doing something directly against the organization's mission), I could understand being hostile towards a volunteer or employee.

    Depending on how long the employee has worked there, I can understand why they would quit. If they are a long-term employee, and the volunteers are new, perhaps the employee was frustrated at something the employees were doing incorrectly, and when disciplined, the employee felt their commitment to the organization was not valued, but the volunteers were.

    What I would take from the situation is to always ask the employee's side, and figure out if they were right to be upset at the volunteer. If the employee's side is "right," then learn that sometimes, the best discipline is a verbal discussion, but not a warning.

  20. Kimberly Worrick

    The fact you are asking how to learn from it tells me you are a good manager. For the employee I am getting a sense of a low work based self esteem, probably has unprocessed trauma, neither of which is your fault. I think you handled things well and made the attempt to regroup afterward. It was very disrespectful of your employee to use hostile verbiage with anyone. The best thing you might do is address it in a company email reminding the rest of your employees and volunteers of the certain behaviors will not be tolerated.

  21. Anonymous

    If i were one of the other employees who got an Email reminding us not to use disrespectful and hostile verbiage after a coworker just quit for being dressed down for their word choices, the company would be looking to fill at least one other spot. And those who don’t leave are definitely not about to embrace this new headmistress errr… manager

    intent and actions are more powerful than individual word choices. Some people weren’t raised with the same rules, they’re not innately hostile or disrespectful, they may just use different language…. Assigning emotions and intent for others is not productive or open communication.

  22. Mary Kerdasha

    You seem very focused on language, handbooks, discipline, and rules. This is not grade school. You are working with volunteers. A better approach might have been learning both sides and determining a path forward. You mention you are a new manager, but instead of trying to manage people with warnings and offences you try to be empathetic, understanding, and compassionate. Take off your headmaster robes and be a little more human.

  23. Anonymous

    These jobs today everyone is looking out for themselves and if the employee said what she said what was said to her first? You see people come into a company trying to make a name for themselves at the cost of other peoples. Just maybe the employee was tired of the BS that going on in these companies today. Management at companies now are the worse, people are just put into positions with no experience and are not qualified at all. This is why companies cannot keep employee's because of BS.

  24. Jennifer Finger

    I think that I need to know more about what led to the profanity before I make a judgment.

    Sometimes people curse as a reflex when something is wrong or even use those words casually and not as insults. No, it isn't professional to speak that way, but it doesn't necessarily warrant a "by the book" treatment.

    I'm also concerned by your "the need for discipline" attitude as though this staffer was a school kid. Could she have been dealing with bullying, sexual harassment or other mistreatment at the time the foul language left her mouth? If so, I think you jumped the gun here and are belittling and infantilizing her with your emphasis on "discipline."

    It might be that your employment handbook needs some updating and you may need some retraining as a manager.

    But again, I would have to have the full story and I don't. So I am withholding judgment. It sounds like you would be wise to do the same.

  25. Wendy Lunko

    This! Unless the employee was asked for their side of the story, no one really knows if there were other circumstances.

  26. KMC

    If you cornered her, outlined her behavior, and “disciplined” her, thats why she quit. In situations like this the employee should do most of the talking and you, as the manager, should show compassion towards the situation. Even if it ends with a “what could we do differently to prevent this is the future?” Sounds like the situation was made to be about her and her very human mistake, rather than the work incident that brought on this behavior.

  27. Debra Lieven

    Two things: did you learn why the F-bomb was dropped and why the employee said she was right and would do it again?

    All you had to say was please no cussing. Then find out WHY there was cussing. Friction between coworkers happens. Your concern wasn’t the friction but behavior. That’s why she quit. All you cared about were the rules and not her feelings. That’s not how a good manager works.

  28. Adrianna Mahoney

    This 100%.

  29. Anonymous

    “The need for discipline was apparent.”

    like a few others have already pointed out, discipline is something that ‘a parent’ (see what i did there) administers to a child. Your management approach is process-first instead of people-first, and your employee quit because you care more about preserving a rule for the sake of procedure than you do about helping a staff member manage an unpleasant experience in the workplace.

  30. Anonymous

    Well, if you can’t call it discipline when you must call out an employee for bad behavior or braking company policy, what DO you call it? Disciplinary action is disciplinary action. OP Said she didn’t do a formal write up, just a verbal warning. Which is pretty mild all things considered. It was a conversation between employee and supervisor. No one needed to know except the two of them. So what would be a better term other than discipline when taking corrective action?

  31. Anonymous

    I’ll never stop finding it absurd that using course language in general is such a taboo. I get it if you work with the children, but adults who can’t bear naughty words? C’mon.

    what is a real problem is insults, calling someone a name using harsh language is just as inappropriate as calling someone a name without flourish.

    Disrespect can also be a problem, but the words a person has at their grasp aren’t the root of disrespect, tone and intent are.

    longwinded way to say with most of the other posters here, it’s the context that matters. Admonishing someone for a word choice can’t possibly not make them feel like a scolded child.

  32. ReachingGoals

    You didn’t go wrong anywhere. Unless you talked to her in front of other people.

    My son said to me the other day some of the older workers where he is now working (new job last November) made a comment that he doesn’t swear and that isn’t “normal”. He works in a factory, has always worked in “service” type jobs, car mechanic, forklift mechanic, etc. Son looked at the guy and said:

    Everytime I walk into a customer’s business I represent the company I work for. Some of those customer locations are government facilities and there are some pretty high level people wondering around. It would be an embarrassment to both me and my employer to swear or use other objectionable language. Although we are all employed by the same company in the factory, we still represent the company and need to be mindful of who is on the floor. Never know when the President pops in (happened last week) or there is a customer.

    Swearing is a habit. Sometimes a thoughtless habit. It can be corrected if the user chooses. Don’t overthink this person quitting. It was best decision for both the employer and employee. No hard feelings either. This is a case of it is what it is.

  33. Anonymous

    The comment about how it’s weird that he doesnt swear isn’t nearly as offensive as your son’s condescending response IMO. All that pontificating about using swear words on a factory floor? Good grief, how does he get his work done from all the way up there on his high horse!

  34. ReachingGoals

    Snort. Oh, he can throw them! I can as well, although the Fbomb isn’t my preferred word. High horse? Naw. There is a time and a place for swears. And if anyone I work with thinks that calling me (or him in this case) out for NOT swearing is going to get any other reaction other than something the queen would say, then they are sorely mistaken. I taught my boys well. Time and place, use them appropriately.

  35. Anonymous

    You denied the high horse comment and then compared yourself to the Queen, that’s funny lol

  36. Anonymous

    I sincerely doubt that the queen of England ever swears in public. You can cut someone down or reprimand them extremely effective with your choice of words and none of them need to be offensive.

  37. Susan Matheis

    Great response, swearing is a choice, and shows anger. You do represent your employer, while at work, but also yourself and your upbringing. Showing class is never in poor taste.

  38. Bosslady579011

    I agree with many other comments here. First eradicate the word “discipline” from your vocabulary and from the handbook as well. Then, look closely at two things: 1. the root cause of the frustration that built towards the expletive. 2. closely examine your previous relationship with this staff member including the tone of prior interactions. How did you make them feel? How did you check in with them?

    BTW I work exclusively with Nonprofit leaders. Give me a shout for free consultation www.gardenhillconsulting.com

  39. Anonymous

    What does this even mean? In what situation would anybody list incidental behavior as a skill? That doesn’t even make any sense.

  40. Ken Berkman

    Life! Experience! Watching great facilitators (mny levevels above a ‘mnger, thank you Dr Donor Ph.D.)(rememberw Stinky the 16 yr old at Macdonald a was my manager, is am ++50 years older than Stinky )

    Learn from incredible people around you, from every where, the calm cop on the street, a good television series, people you respect AND “admire”. Real leaders, real facilitators .

    And document everything

    Because you will be challenged and probably sued.

    Document it all.

    Yes cya!

    And move forward, you acted with respect and acted professionally, do acted as a facilitator!

    But you can't save everyone

  41. Rebecca Ali

    Give yourself some grace - it's a stressful time for everyone. Perhaps she was ready to go and just needed the "final straw" excuse to make the change that was already in her heart. Also, if you need another resource for coaching (not knowing your skill set of course), there is a great book called "The Coaching Habit" by Michael Bungay Stanier. Very straightforward. I refer to it often.

  42. Lisa Marie

    A similar-ish thing happened when I was in college, except I was on the other side (i.e., staff, not management). I was at a summer job and one of my coworkers rage-quit after she was asked to stop making inappropriate jokes on the clock. She took it personally when she was asked to stop, so she lashed out by doubling down and walking.

    At the time, the rest of us on-staff were relieved. She was not a pleasant person to work with even without the jokes— she was arrogant, immature, and rude. After she left, the entire tone of the workplace changed for the better.

    I’m not saying this was definitely the case with your volunteer, but it very well could be. Especially if more than one person complained about her— that indicates to me she was probably making people uncomfortable. The fact that she wouldn’t accept legitimate criticism and doubled down also makes me think there is an ego problem on her part, too.

    None of those things are your fault. You did everything you could do on your end— asked her to stop, offered alternatives, etc. She chose not to accept them and doubled down on her bad behavior. That was her choice and hers alone— that’s not on you at all.

    At the end of the day, some employees are just not a good fit. It sucks, but you can’t please or accommodate everybody.

  43. Anonymous

    You could've removed her from the situation to protect her and just handled the situation with the "offended" party

  44. Brenda F.

    Why is it appropriate to appease an employee for inappropriate behavior over two volunteers? I agree that coaching might be the best avenue but it does not mean that the “offended” individuals - which no one said they were offended when they pointed out a rule violation - were wrong to report it.

  45. Queen Smalls

    Sounds like a case of insubordination. I think you dodged a bullet. Not sure what else you could’ve done except, as managers, sometimes we’re in a hurry to hire (especially now). Take care to follow your gut at the hiring stage. It really helps to avoid issues down the line. Not judging you at all. I hope you find a perfect fit for this role. Try to brush this off.

  46. Anonymous

    Wtf??? She's an adult and adults curse sometimes at work. Get over it. Even some of my colleagues curse once in a while and so do I. Never in front of customers though.

  47. Anonymous

    Uh, volunteers are simiar to customers. They drive your business forward and have completely free will as to whether to support the charity or not. Also, there’s a big difference between swearing generally at work and directing the F bomb at someone. If you don’t know the difference, then you need some serious introspection as to what in your background makes you think this is appropriate. It is NEVER appropriate to send the F bomb towards anyone at work. Adults ‘should’ be able to control their behavior at work. It’s not a matter of others ‘getting over it’ - it’s a matter of creating a respectful environment at work, which everyone deserves.

  48. Anonymous

    Honestly, that’s a culture call.

    I work in the entertainment industry and I learned MANY colorful words & phrases in my first job. I think I hear at least 2-5 f-bombs a week. It doesn’t offend me, but when I moved to a Southern state, I quickly adjusted my language so as not to offend my super-conservative neighbors. I use a lot of fiddlesticks these days - which is highly amusing to my colleagues on our zoom calls!

  49. Anonymous

    I'm in New York.

  50. Anonymous

    I don't generally swear at work nor do my colleagues. Maybe once in a while, but no one says anything, and never in front of customers.

  51. Brenda F.

    There is cursing and then there is dropping the F bomb - which is very different. Depending on the type of workplace neither may be acceptable. When someone is frustrated they can do many other more appropriate things than cursing in the workplace. Workplace civility is not merely an imposition by management - it is also how we treat each other as colleagues.

  52. April

    Can you clarify which employee felt treated unfairly? The person cursed at or the person cursing!

  53. Crystal Howell

    That type of language has no reason to be used in a professional atmosphere.

    She did you a favor by leaving the firm.

    When I was new manager, I read and still do John C. Maxwell books. Hope it helps.

  54. Anonymous

    I think it's time we expand our source material beyond the 40+ year-old teachings of a cis white Christian man.

  55. Melissa Milligan

    Unnecessary.

  56. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    No, it's actually very necessary. Cis white Christian men are the ones who put these social systems in place where someone gets fired for a swear word because obedience & strict compliance are valued more than the person you demand compliance from.

  57. Anonymous

    Jumping on the Lorna train here

    She is not wrong. We’ve been blindly following rules that were laid out by those specifically trying ti keep women and people of color on the sidelines. Not every professional standard is bad, but if you don’t have a good reason why it’s actually relevant and important… it’s time to reevaluate.

  58. Anonymous

    At first read, hearing that there was some regrouping after the incident and THEN the employee quit sounds to me like an act of immature defiance.

    But without knowing all the facts, it's impossible to give black and white advice here. Takeaway for you should be reflection on other commenters' points: did you fairly hear sides from all parties or just strictly enforce a handbook rule? Did you enforce the rule in a way that respected the employee (in private vs in front of others)?

    Good managers are always learning and are, above all else, respectful and empathetic of everyone they work with.

    Worry less about this single incident and focus on how you can always grow in your role.

  59. Anonymous

    Sometimes you have to let them go, knowing you can't please everyone, and not everyone sees eye-to-eye. Your job is to maintain a professional atmosphere for all involved. You have done that and even offered to "help" the offender.

    It comes down to embarrassment, I believe. No one wants to be called out or tattled on when they clearly have done something wrong that is written out in your Employee Handbook.

    Hopefully the ex employee learns from it; seems as if you already have broken it down to fully comprehend.

  60. Nicole Howard

    Why did she say the *F* bomb to the volunteer? She's an adult and it happens. As long as she isn't saying it to a customer or using it to harass someone(but even with that we don't know why she cursed at the volunteer). I've been through so much at previous companies that I'm burnt out on biting my tongue or being nice when someone doesn't deserve it. If I feel disrespected I will put you in your place or if I get hurt I curse. Maybe she felt disrespected. But like I said we don't have enough info to really say.

  61. Anonymous

    Staff will come and go. That this staff member did this, she has frustration issues whether they be with the job, or her personal life. Communication with your staff who report to you is important. If you see someone is having a problem with their duties or how they interact, don't think "oh just a bad day, it will go away". It won't. Better to address an attitude before it gets worse. Cursing is always unprofessional. Volunteers need be be shown the utmost in appreciation. Staff that don't grasp that are better off finding a job that won't make them miserable. If they quit you are better off. If you have to let someone go they are better off moving on.

    When you have to discuss performance focus on the situation not the person. Instead of "you broke the no cursing rule" explain how the result affected the business "some volunteers are upset because they witnessed what they felt was anger toward them and then so e customers left and took their business elsewhere. I would like to hear your side of the story." This way you can communicate what can be done to give this staff member more success in his/her role.

  62. Ashley Duplechien

    Did you take the time to ask her what happened before jumping right into discipline?

  63. Anonymous

    A job is a contract and either party can exit the contract at any time. Employers let people go with little to no notice (either for cause or as part of a RIF), and employees can quit with no notice too (unless their employment contract requires a specific notice period). If you feel your enforcement of the code of conduct was correct, then your employee also has the right to decide that they don't want to work at a place with that particular code of conduct. You need to let them go and if the concern is that there's a gap in your staffing, then you need to have a succession plan in place so that that someone leaving abruptly for any reason (eg. discipline issue, medical issue, etc) doesn't disrupt the work that needs to be done too much. Good luck!

  64. S

    I recently experienced this and sometimes it is best that the person has chosen to leave as they would have caused additional challenges for you and the organization. In the first place, they should not have violated the agency policy; second if they did, a reasonable and responsible person would acknowledge their mistake and accepted the consequences as part of the due process and learned from it to never repeat the unacceptable behavior. Third, you can always hire and train the next person appropriately about your expectations for their job performance and the agency’s disciplinary process. At least that person is not there to provide a negative influence on the next person or the rest of the staff. Good job on carrying out the disciplinary process timely!

  65. Anonymous

    Why is the onus for responsibility and reasonableness all on the employee here? A responsible and reasonable person would ask a grown adult who used a swear word why they broke the rule about swearing in the first place. What you described isn’t due process, it’s child-rearing of adults in the workplace and that’s 1000x more inappropriate than a swear word.

  66. Anonymous

    This " there's always a next person" attitude is exactly why people are leaving their jobs in droves. Everybody makes mistakes, we're all human, and managers should perhaps consider treating others as valuable even when they make mistakes instead of discarding them and moving straight on to the next one.

  67. LF

    Yes! You hit the nail on the head!

  68. Anonymous

    I would ask yourself....was this employee open to coaching on other topics? Some people have difficulty taking in words or coaching to improve performance. During your interviews for new employees, you may want to add a question like: Can you describe feedback received that improved your performance? or something like this.

  69. Anonymous

    Ugh... Have you considered that the type of "feedback" given (disciplining over a minor thing) is not the best way to "improve the performance" of employees? Would that make you work harder for your employer?

  70. Dcre1977

    I do not normally cuss, if I cussed at someone at work it is because they have repeatedly overstepped my boundaries.

    Sometimes volunteers aren't volunteering out of the goodness of their heart, but to move up in the world. You do need to balance creating a good raport with the volunteers and protecting your employees from a hostile work environment. What is your procedure for when a volunteer acts in an unacceptable way to an employee?

  71. Sarah Owens

    It depends on what the verbal warning was and whether the employee was allowed to share her or his thoughts. Was the warning an absolute "One more mistake and you'll be terminated?" That's too vague and makes the employee fearful that you could decide anything you don't like is grounds for termination.

    Having paid and volunteer workers has one unique problem: Little is expected of volunteers, and substandard work is accepted from them. But the paid employee is expected to fix that bad work. Employees frequently feel that the volunteers are highly valued while they are not, simply because they're an expense. And often, that's true.

    The employee was clearly frustrated at the volunteer. Did you ask the employee about that? Did you listen to the employee's concerns? Or did you skip that step and discipline the employee without learning the cause from them? That's common, the supervisor follows the rules without thinking that there might be a problem among their workers. The employee's outburst may have been the result of long-term dissatisfaction with how they believe they're treated at work. Low level employees are often dismissed as costs, not people with needs. Supervisors sometimes forget or never realize that our jobs are our lives. We spend most of our waking hours at work. We need to feel valued at work, which is most of the hours of our lives.

  72. Anonymous

    Unless there are other terms specifically laid out in the contract, it’s at an employee’s discretion to decide to leave a job at any time for any reason. And as long as you have applied this type of discipline evenly for other similar incidents, you shouldn’t feel guilty.

    There are many types of things you can train and coach an employee on - how to use tools, processes, procedures etc. “Coaching” defensiveness out of someone or guiding them on how to regulate their emotional reactions is a tougher job. And often better left to the professionals. There’s no angle in which dropping the f-bomb to a coworker is “right”. Some people are less offended by that word than others but its your role as a manager to make sure everyone on your team feels comfortable. She broke a rule. whether she personally agrees with it or not is not your issue. And again as long as this type of discipline is the standard type of discipline, she should take it for what it is - better verbal direction on how to succeed at the company.

    I think the bigger opportunity for learning is on her side on how to not take things so personally.

    But two possible takeaways for you are realizing that not everyone is a great fit. Should you really have to spend your precious time training someone how to not curse out coworkers? And also possibly having a backup plan in place so anyone on the team can leave at anytime without it causing a disruption to workflow

  73. Anonymous

    Ask yourself: what is the point of being a manager? How can you manage people to exhibit their best behavior? If you look into yourself, you'll probably agree that disciplining for minor offenses rarely achieves that goal and just breeds resentment. It is what one does to children, and makes the other person feel like a child. What it will not do is help them reflect on their behavior and change. And that is what you wanted from the disciplining, no? Not disciplining in itself but affecting change.

    So how handle it a next time? Show compassion and let your employee tell you their side of what happened. Did you ask her side of the story before moving into discipline? Did you attempt to truly understand the situation? Was this a dedicated employee otherwise? Are there perhaps points of friction in your organization that make life for your employees more difficult and lead to the kind of frustration this person exhibited? Do you know for certain the two volunteers were acting in good faith? The fact that two people say something about a third does not make it true; they could have just been ganging up on your employee and exaggerating the tone and intent of the interaction (cursewords are not always aggressive).

    The point being: if you jumped to "enforcing the handbook" for such a very minor thing as cursing over having a human conversation with your employee, I can see why they quit. Even in the case the behavior was very wrong and truly aggressive towards your volunteers, a compassionate conversation would have had a much better effect than discipline.

  74. Brian Price

    I would quit too. Sounliks like a pretty strict environment.

  75. Anonymous

    Cussing out a coworker and getting in trouble for it is a strict environment? Hardly lol. It’s not like she just cussed while having a convo

  76. Anonymous

    Discipline anywhere is highly problematic. If you want to do better in the future, I would focus on growth and coaching from the start and not offer it as an afterthought to discipline. And perhaps reach out to this former employee and follow up, get their perspective and feedback.

    [I expect I’ll get heat from others for saying this: discipline is part of why incarceration leads to recidivism instead of rehabilitation. IMHO it doesn’t even belong in parenting or education. I was a behavioral interventionist in K12 schools for a decade, and it definitely doesn’t work for ages 4-19.]

  77. Anonymous

    I would wonder what the volunteer did to warrant the cussing. Were the full details discussed or was everything just focused on the F bomb? Since I don't know the full details of what occurred, was the outburst provoked by the volunteer? The whole incident seems juvenile and immature.

  78. Huong Nguyen-Valle

    As a person who was in a non-profit my entire career, I was always reprimanded for things that could have been coached and explained to me why the mistakes I made were wrong. I was never really told why. Have you gotten to the other side of the story and why it warrants the bad words? Not all volunteers are great.

  79. 1stBossLady

    Do you think the f-bomb dropper is gaslighting you? I do.

  80. Anonymous

    I would like to think there is more to the story... Because being put on discipline for using Vulgar words seems a bit overkill especially if this is the only (or rare) incident. I wouldn't want to work in a place where I have to be "perfect" at all time.

  81. Anonymous

    She wasn’t put on discipline. She received a verbal warning

  82. Brenda F.

    While your employee may have felt justified in why she did it, there are two issues here - that she cursed and that she felt it was appropriate and would do it again.

    There are always opportunities to handle coaching differently. Some employees are more receptive to coaching as others. We can all be armchair philosophers here. Your staff member may have felt she was being treated unjustly but it always may simply be her perception of the events. Saying she would do it again confirms she was not receptive to coaching no matter what you did.

    If you are an organization that relies on volunteers there may be a standard of conduct for the staff to adhere to as a model for the volunteers.

    As long as you took her explanation into account - which may have mitigated her behavior - when you investigated all the facts before issuing the discipline, it appears you followed “due process”.

  83. Anonymous

    The climate is very sensitive and hostile due to Covid-19. Mental health is a big issue employees are struggling with and unaware of the issue or how to manage. I would suggest checking in with employees to understand what is happening outside of work and having a different type of conversation of empathy and offer possible support the company can provide. To show you have there best interest at heart. And then Express unfortunately no choice but to reprimand due to actions.

    With high job market demand, now more than ever leaders need to partner to keep workforce intact.

  84. Calla M Wiemeyer

    I am a former non-profit staff member who was twice reprimanded similarly (not for "colorful" language, but for rudeness toward volunteers). Did the volunteers deserve it? Yes. If I had also been a volunteer instead of staff it would have passed unremarked. Were the reprimands justified? Also, yes. I absolutely could have handled things better. Learning to deal with volunteers is an art form. The first interaction occurred early on in my tenure - I had just come from a company where I was 3rd from the top on the org chart and had become accustomed to frankness, and had not completely transitioned to the new structure. This volunteer was younger and had a reputation for being overbearing, and when I did not immediately cave to her demands she insulted my niece, who was also a volunteer and her predecessor. But yes, I could and should have handled the interaction with more tact and grace. The second interaction was with a long-time volunteer who had risen through the ranks over time and was used to getting her way. And again, I should have been more sensitive to the situation. The reprimands stung, but I learned from them and carried on.

    I'm going to suggest that your employee may not have been in the right environment, and deep down she knew it. When being right becomes more important than people skills a career in non-profit should be re-evaluated. I commend you for wanting to learn from the experience, and I'm guessing from the sensitivity evidenced here that the reprimand was not delivered in a tactless or hurtful manner. There are a lot of unspecified variables - how long the employee had been on staff, her experience with volunteers, the details of the interaction, etc., but with the abrupt resignation I'd say she may have been a poor fit overall for the position. It takes self-awareness and a LOT of patience to work successfully with volunteers!

  85. Nirupama Raghavan

    Thanks for your comment. I think you really hit the nail on the head. Rude behavior might be provoked by someone else's actions, but it's rarely the right response. We're all human and sometimes don't respond with the professionalism that we should do. I appreciate the fact that you acknowledged that you should have behaved differently and didn't make excuses. To me, that's what appears to be missing with the employee in the poster's example. I am astonished at how many commenters are missing that point.

  86. Anonymous

    I think a verbal warning for cussing at a volunteer is appropriate. I also think it’s important to work with the employee to understand the underlying reason for the behavior. Maybe the volunteer has been behaving offensively for a long time and the employee finally lost it. Maybe the employee has additional stressors going on at home. It’s possible to simultaneously point out that something went wrong while having empathy for the person who did it, and it sounds to me like you do, if you were willing to work with the employee and coach them. My gut feeling (although, as a stranger, I have absolutely no evidence for this) is that the employee has been considering quitting for a while and this incident, while mild in itself, is the trigger. Long story short, it sounds like you behaved appropriately to me, and the lesson to be learned is just that people have emotions and don’t always act rationally.

  87. Anonymous

    If the staff member felt she was right and would do it again to the point that she verbally stated it, there’s not much else you can do.

    It is difficult to tell what sort of tone you had when you disciplined her. Was it more of a conversation or was the the only information you asked her about was if it was true that she cursed?

    Did you like this employee at all before? We have rules for a reason and that’s great. There may be more to the interaction where she ended up cursing. I don’t know how your volunteers are handled. Do they go through any training? Are there relationship building activities before volunteers and employees are thrown into real situations?

    There are many factors about this situation that I don’t know. Maybe the employee left because she felt it was best for her and I don’t blame her. Maybe she was motivated by her own overall goals and I hope she finds the right fit for her.

  88. Shelby C

    Sometimes staffing issues take care of themselves. I think the universe did you a favor.

  89. Lynetta Venable

    It seems that type is language is now common place. I know some people that don't think that is grounds for reprimand.

    You followed the handbook. She was not a good fit. Was she there when you hired on? Keep her attitude in mind when you hire others. That situation can be nipped in the bud.

  90. Anonymous

    Right, avoid problems like this altogether and just custom-order robots who aren't susceptible to human emotions.

  91. JRS.

    Wow

  92. GirlBossanova934974

    There are 3 issues here. A) What did the volunteer do that resulted in the use of bad language? B) Why did this breach of the employee handbook require more than a few sentences from the manager? aka we don't use that language around here and be done with it C) What kind of hiring process do you have when a very small disciplinary matter such as this results in a resignation a day later? I would devote much more attention to ITEM C as the hiring process has failed.

  93. Stephanie Prewitt

    I agree, GirlBossanova934974. I feel like something was left out of this story. What did the volunteer say/do to the employee? Do other employees get away with using profanity (unbeknownst to the manager?) so said employee felt singled out or that rules apply to employees differently. Last, was the employee reprimanded in private or was it a humiliating public spectacle. I’m inferring by the Posts comment claiming ‘it was not fair’ that employee is a millennial or very young and has not learned that the working world is not ‘fair’ so employee has no frame of reference based in reality.

  94. Anonymous

    Did you sit down with both of them to see if they could come to terms? Give the employee that swore an opportunity to apologize? What was the reason she said what she said? If the employee who was sworn at had been poking at her for a while, people snap and react in anger. I have at my 1st career position. I've had people swear at me. I always ended up in a meeting with the person that was on the receiving end or with the person who swore. Every time it was a misunderstanding, or one of us was acting in a way that we didn't know was insulting or hurtful. Maybe the other employee needs to know why she was sworn at. Age gaps play a huge role. I don't know how many times I peeved my daughter off saying something that is or was ok in my generation, so I need to know these things, or I would never learn. It's easier some times to talk it out than train a new employee or volunteer. And I think handbooks have gone too far. Too many ways to get into trouble for harmless actions. I don't know how many times I could have been fired at my last job just with my sarcasm Is it too late to talk with her to try and resolve things?Good luck, and I'm sorry this happened.

  95. surfnwrite

    Disciplined for an F-bomb, seriously? I think I would quit, too. Sounds like a really uptight place.

  96. Stephanie

    in any kind of customer /volunteer facing business using f-bombs should be grounds for something.. it’s unprofessional, and to many it is offensive. Think of it this way, if you go shopping, go out to eat or patronize any entertainment venue is it OK for the employees to tell you to F-off when you are at their place of business? Would a manager be uptight if she disciplined her employee who spoke to you this way under these circumstances? For example you say “I got charged the wrong price for this item”. The employee says “F-you lady, our prices are right”. Just some F-ing food for thought ?.

  97. JRS.

    If this employee used the F bomb in a derogatory way to demean the volunteer, uptight? Don’t think so. Grow up! How about real communication in respectful terms. It’s not acceptable in any circumstance. Unless you are having a casual conversation and everyone is comfortable . This is a no brainer. Sounds like this snowflake didn’t like to be disciplined . She SHOULD quit, if she can’t handle some much need coaching in the workplace. Wow. Would have done the same thing, let the chips fall where they may. This is just unacceptable behavior, period. If there was an issue with a volunteer, handle it with a bit of professionalism.

  98. Anonymous

    MY issue with the discipline is that there is no context leading up to why this person felt the need to curse. Not everything is being a “snowflake”. I don’t think anyone is necessarily disputing the fact that discipline may have been needed. I think the issue is the facts are vague leading up to the discipline. Something HAPPENED for this EMPLOYEE to lash out.

  99. surfnwrite

    Um, who said "employee used the F bomb in a derogatory way to demean the volunteer.? Was that in the post somewhere? Did the OP come back and say that? If not, that's a heck of a lot of assumptions you are making. Someone saying "F you" is one thing, but saying the F-word while describing a situation is something else indeed. And yes, I have been in this EXACT SAME situation, trying to explain to an idiot boss that context is everything.

  100. Jo-Ann

    RIDICULOUS!!

  101. Anonymous

    You never know what is going on in other peoples lives. Also if she was in fact being bullied or hazed and you were unaware of is your problem. Maybe she didn’t feel safe in the workplace. You should find out what happened and learn from it. Because a F bomb is pretty tame compared to being sued by an ex co worker for harassment. There may be several reasons she left. Hopefully you can learn from this so you can do a better job next time to create a honest and open and safe environment at work.

  102. Coach Nancie Kay Shuman

    So it sounds was though the circumstances of the incident was talked about from several angles before the warning was given. The problem, if I am understanding git correctly, is that the employee was called out for something which is specifically in the employee handbook, and which she agreed to adhere to. Much of what you say is important and are good things to look at, but when an employee violates their word, and it is potentially off putting to people who are volunteering their time, it can cause larger issues. Had the employee been open to working with the employer, some of this may have come out and been able to e addressed.

  103. Anonymous

    I see what you’re saying but I disagree. COVID and the anti work movement has shown that people are quitting their jobs for better opportunities or creating better opportunities for themselves where they aren’t working for a dictatorship. Just keeping your Yap shut isn’t going to fly anymore. If this company is structural unsound it’s going to fail. It comes from the top down and if management can’t keep up with their employees they shouldn’t be in business in the first place. Glad that woman quit volunteering for a company who wasn’t aligned with her and she’s free of the BS. And I’ll urge anyone who is being harassed and abused at work to quit and leave these companies in the dust because they don’t care about peoples wellbeing.

  104. Coach Nancie Kay Shuman

    If I’m reading what the OG was posting, The person who quit was a paid employee who was working with Volunteers.
    But for me, and keep in mind that my coaching practice is all about radical authenticity and integrity, the employee gave their word that this language would not be used while on the job, And they broke that agreement. People have been fired for less, and the managers approach is appropriate. The employee is always allowed to choose to leave if those demands and agreements are found to be not in alignment with her authentic self.

    This having been said , I have been known to hand people copies of the Shakespearean insult generator for those moments when something simply must be said.

  105. Coach Nancie Kay Shuman

    I don't think there was anything which you could have done better.

    Even though the usage of swear words are much more common today in general, it is still unprofessional and that particular vocabulary should not be used. And, if it is in the employee handbook as policy, definitely needs to be called out. So, there are no surprises there.

    The fact that you chose a verbal warning for the first incident, then backed it up with offers for Coaching, etc., shows that you were willing to work with the Employee, and support her to make the changes which would help her grow, not simply protect the organizagion.

    The one thing I would suggest as a learning opportunity is possibly to ascertain if there was anything else going on which contributed to the originating behavior. And would it have been helpful if that be addressed. It may not have been, and it may have been a simple case of ego run amuck.

    But, as has been said, the use of profanities shows a great lack of imagination.

  106. Marine Avagyan

    I think you did the right thing. If she is not willing to follow company protocol and contribute to a respectful workplace, then she is not a good fit for you. Move on and find a quality replacement.

  107. JoAnn

    Soooo what caused them to use the "F" bomb? Or did you not feel that was an important piece to research? Is this Volunteer a stir the pot kind of employee that you continually believe? If you truly want to learn....start by truly seeing what is going on around you, even with your favorites.

  108. Rohan Fox

    Surely the context of why the staff member said what they did is hugely important. It is difficult to make any statement without knowing that. What provoked the action? Was the volunteer late, did the volunteer say something nasty about the staff members deceased husband? If it was the former then you did the right thing, if it was the latter then you could have done more to show the staff member that although you have to follow the protocol you support their wellbeing and will speak with the volunteer about inappropriate conduct. Company protocols are there because they work in most situations, but I can imagine some instances where adhering to the "letter of the law" results in a sub-standard outcome. Is this one of those situations? just can't say without more info.

  109. Anonymous

    When an employee starts acting out at work, chance are it is due to many thing rather than just their job duties. So you handled thing fine. If there were signs prior to escalating to F BOMBS perhaps writing them up sooner would have addressed the coaching & counseling earlier. Beyond that, I think this person was extremely unhappy and it just came to a head.

  110. Anonymous

    I think people here are sooo quick to judge only knowing half the story. The circumstances described are too vague to say the least. So based on what you posted, she got a verbal warning for dropping one f-bomb. Seriously? This is 2021 right?

  111. Anonymous

    There are so many people commenting that a paid employee who cursed at a VOLUNTEER with the F word and vowed to do it again was not treated well enough. Maybe they should sit down together and hash it out. Maybe the manager should try to try to woo the employee who used the F word back.

    This is the same logic as trying to be sympathetic to a domestic abuser. Just because this happened in a work setting does not mean it should be tolerated. Because this behavior did happen in a work setting, it should have met with stronger discipline. Seriously, would the people crying woe for the F-bomb thrower give this same thoughtless counsel to a beating victim, a victim of a rage-a-holic?

    Hopefully, none of these people manage human beings because they are liabilities.

  112. Anonymous

    You and the 6 people who upvoted this are absolutely reaching by comparing this situation to domestic abuse. Don’t exploit our very real trauma to support your very weak argument about a completely unrelated matter,

    and yes, to answer your question, the abuser pretty much always gets the benefit of the doubt by someone.

  113. Anonymous

    I disagree. You do not have the corner on abuse. As someone who experienced both and helped victims in both circumstances, I stand by what I said. The fact that others do not see the continuum shows why people cannot be safe in either setting.

  114. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Yes there's a continuum of abuse that can apply in more than one settings, but the unique relationship dynamic between domestic abusers and their victims is completely absent between an employee at a nonprofit and one of the nonprofit's volunteers. Since there is no degree of intimacy in the relationship dynamic between these two parties, this comparison dies right here.

    As a fellow survivor, who has been working with domestic abuse victims since 2008 first as a social worker and later as a court advocate, there are very dangerous consequences of comparing these situations. Giving an employee the benefit of the doubt for dropping an F-bomb in the workplace in what appears to be a single incident is not even remotely the same as sympathizing with someone who perpetuates domestic/family violence, and telling people that these two situations are the same can influence them to take actions that aren't helpful, necessary, appropriate or even safe.

    I'd like to add, since you brought up your personal experience, that it's unfortunate you did not even stop to consider that the employee herself has been a victim of domestic violence and that her outburst at the volunteer could've been a trigger-reflex, a learned behavior from what she's used to. This is obviously a very broad speculation based on what little information we have (and assuming that the information we do have is an accurate representation of the truth), but it's not outside the realm of possibility. While I'm thinking about it, we also don't know what kind of NPO this is... imagine it's a domestic violence agency or shelter and you're over here comparing this employee to the very people she helps the victims of.

  115. Susan Robles

    People will quit for many reasons. Some company policies are better than others. Sometimes you will go the right thing and it will be the wrong thing at the same time. You cannot control every situation. If you're going your job and have any bit of heart you will have things that you wish could be different. Meanwhile what did those two volunteers do or say that resulted, caused, made the staff member use the F word?

  116. Marina Lynn Currie

    I like how you gave a verbal instead of a written warning. It sounds like you want to see if there is something more you can do. There always is. People are so dynamic there is always a combination that teaches you something new. It sounds like the employee that quit might feel like they are unsupported when they use a mainstream form of communication. They might also feel like the manager or the workplace culture didn't understand that they made a simple mistake and that they misunderstood that the workplace culture truly doesn't want them to use the f-bomb. That is a reasonable confusion. Our mainstream culture is rife with expletives and glorified examples in the media of successful business men and women dropping fbombs. Not all workplaces focus that strictly on forms of communication. Another position the employee could be in is maybe they didn't feel like you understood that professional forms of communication in all situations is tough to do. It takes practice to communicate in those specific professional communication patterns. People need to feel like they have time to learn and make mistakes to feel safe to work in a workplace that has professional standards of communication. I recommend exploring how to shape and manage the culture. What caught my attention is how you keep mentioning it is clearly in the handbook. The handbook is not the culture. They are guidelines and rules for the culture. Mentoring and coaching help communicate and reinforce the expectations of the culture and then ultimately shape and set the tone for the culture. How often are the respectful communication techniques talked about and taught, not just modeled? Teaching communication can be done via the plethora of online videos and reading professional books. Taking someone aside earlier to talk about communication can happen before reprimanding or disciplining someone. Do you have a booklist for your organization? You might have fun trying to do a book club type approach for books that help with professional communication and conflict. Conflict is another great subject to help with this. I find the basic information on what conflict is shifted my understanding on how to approach so many things. Take a look at the Thomas Kilman Conflict Model. Another tidbit to remember, Covey recommends humanity for management and leadership. Try to remember to understand your employees to learn how to best and effectively coach and mentor.

  117. Ria

    Best response!

  118. Marina Lynn Currie

    Thank you! I appreciate the compliment.

  119. Anonymous

    Sometimes once the employee discipline cycle is begun, it gets going under the employee is fired. Perhaps she quit because she feared getting fired later.

  120. Anonymous

    Possibly someone who has been fired before for similar reasons?

  121. Peggie Arvidson * Career Consultant | Adoptee Advocate | Recruiter

    So many questions!

    What circumstances happened before the Fbomb? Was the volunteer about to use a powertool to cut through an electrical wire? (I've seen it almost happen and if someone hadn't done/said something to get the volunteer's attention - it would have been a shocking outcome!)

    Was this in a formal setting? Is this the common vernacular around the group/demographic?

    Just because 2 volunteers said it happened and the person said it happened "Yes, I dropped the Fbomb" we're missing context!

    Let's say it was at a formal dinner and the volunteer asked the employee to pass the salt but not the pepper and the employee said "Oh F*&$% No! They go together or not at all!"

    Yeah. I'd have to chat about that.

    In the about to electrocute oneself situation, I'd still have a chat but agree that whatever it took in a terrifying moment - while not ideal, did save a life - or keep the volunteer more healthy.

    Then there's the verbal warning == where? when? how? Did the offender get a word in other than owning up to the Fbomb? Was she chastised/corrected/warned at her desk in the middle of the workplace? Via zoom? at a local coffee shop away from prying eyes and busy bodies?

    Some people have never been taught workplace etiquette -- and we have an opportunity to help our employees grow into leaders and effective members of the workforce.

    So, without being a fly on the wall - it's' hard to say exactly what to do - although I recommend going through the scenario with a trusted boss or coach and asking for direct insights.

  122. Anonymous

    This! I need context. Too many of the respondees are jumping on the bandwagon of saying “they deserved it”etc. I need more background on this issue in order to make an actual decision. Was this employee being verbally attacked? Were they cursed at first etc. too many snap judgements on this discipline but not enough information

  123. Stacey Hadfield Lowe

    Context of the event itself and the environment of the discipline matter. Why does she think she was right? What happened?

  124. Anonymous

    Poor performance and bad behavior have consequences. I think this discipline was more than fair. No one is entitled to be rude or abusive in the workplace. Under any circumstances. It’s harassment and it’s illegal. It’s appalling to me the lack of professionalism I see on a daily basis nowadays. Being verbally abusive to a coworker or customer is unacceptable for ANY reason. Be professional and find another way to let this person know you’re mad at them, privately. Or speak to your manager and ask them to deal with it.

  125. Gina Jordan

    Oh my goodness.... our "pat you on the head culture", and the "everybody has the right to express themselves" ideals are really just too much sometimes. I've had employees that you can't say boo too and not have them want to cry and quit, and plenty of others who take constructive criticism well and learn from it. There is such a thing as respect for others, yourself and the job. You, as a boss or manager should be able to say, "hey, watch your language. We don't talk like that here." and be done. No classes, no meetings. Anyways, I think you just saved yourself from a whiner. You want the type of employees that can just say, "oh, sorry. It slipped out. I'll try to do better." and go on with life. You certainly have better things to do with your time than to pacify an overly sensitive person who lacks respect, and can't learn from a mistake.

  126. Jennifer Monaco

    Id like to share some general thoughts. I don’t have enough context to give specifics however will share a different approach and perspective that leaders can take. Since you are only giving a verbal warning, you have some options.

    When something like this happens, I have a conversation. This is a time to listen to what happened from the employees perspective. Set the tone and context as I’d like us to talk through this and identify learning opportunities. Ask questions like:

    What happened, walk me through it.

    What was said?

    How did it make you feel?

    What was your intent by saying xxx, what outcome were you looking for?

    These questions will start a dialogue and can show you want to help.

    Listen to what they have to say. Don’t interject. When they are finished, ask, now looking back, is there anything that could have been done or said differently?

    You can then summarize what you both discussed and agree there is a better way to handle the situation, if it happens again.

  127. Kristine Murtz Ryan

    I like this Jennifer!

  128. Anonymous

    If someone doesn't like the rules, quitting and moving to a culture that's a better fit for them is the best course for all concerned. If dropping f-bombs is a core value and part of that person's personality, asking them to change that is a deal-breaker for them. I don't see a problem here.

  129. Anonymous

    You did fine.
    In fact you were lenient. The employee lacked self-discipline. It sounds like they've been down this road before and know they are not compatible with the work culture.

  130. Rosa Goes

    There is always more to the story. As others mentioned, ask specific questions that led to the incident especially since it was a first offense. Your employee made her decision and there is nothing more you can do. I recommend interviewing the other two volunteers who confirmed the offense.

  131. Kar Travel

    Did you ask why the employee said the fbomb? What did the other person say that started it, perhaps that was inappropriate also. Especially if the fbomber said she was "right and would do it again". 20 years in HR.

  132. Anonymous

    I can’t see what you did wrong.

    You handled this situation perfectly.

    Your employee’s on-the-job conduct was inappropriate. Her resignation was at best immature and may well indicate other personality issues (self-centeredness, inability to take direction.)

    Congratulate yourself for being a good manager and move forward with pride.

  133. Anonymous

    A good manager doesn't fashion themselves as a disciplinarian, and a good manager wouldn't have lost a valuable asset to the company that it'd been investing into via payroll, benefits, and taxes.

  134. Anonymous

    If you write up or verbally warn an an employee about breaking a rule, or “bad” behavior - used in the most general definition - it is technically called disciplinary action. Would OP have been better saying she took disciplinary action instead? A supervisor, manager, team leader, CEO, whoever has a responsibility to the company and its employees to provide consistent rules for all. So is the issue, OP took action, or is this a verbiage issue? Honestly, if I took disciplinary action agains an employee and they decided to quit instead of getting clarification, or acknowledging that perhaps they were wrong, then I’ve dodged a bullet. If said employee felt justified, then I would want to hear them, perhaps it wouldn’t change the result of what happened to them, but perhaps it would also caused the volunteer to be invited to not volunteer anymore because of their attitude.

  135. Anitra DeLorenzo

    Ppl cuss in 2022....you didn't bother to find out what happened and why it was dropped. Seems you may need training yourself. Next....if a Fbomb can get someone "written up" do we even need to work for ppl like that? There are real issues in the world and this isn't one of them. The God complex needs dropped.

  136. Linda Eavens

    how would you feel if you entered a business and people were doing and saying whatever they wanted? I say f*** all the time in my personal life but there’s a time and a place for such things and it doesn’t belong at work. That’s why we’re seeing such overall disdain for each other, because no one wants to live with any sort of structure or decorum. Everyone wants to do whatever they want all the time.

  137. Anonymous

    I’ve worked in the entertainment industry for over 20 years. Curse words have never offended me. Polite vocabularies dripping with condescension and “holier than thou” attitudes do though.

  138. Coach Nancie Kay Shuman

    I worked in both corporate entertainment and production. Behavior which would fly in production would never be allowed in corporate. Likewise, a bank teller who swore in public, probably would not get very far. But the night auditor who never saw another human being except for other night auditors? Probably could get away with saying anything they wanted.

  139. Ellyn Specker Charap

    I think I love you.

  140. Anonymous

    It depends on the type of business. Being on stage is a high stress situation. I guarantee that if you went in a shop and all the sales staff were openly swearing you would be uncomfortable. The are also legal issues. It's not about whether you're offended personally but the risk of the company getting sued at a tribunal for bullying.

  141. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    I think it depends. I am definitely a cusser, but if it was directed AT a volunteer, that's different. "Oh, F, I forgot my lunch today!" is very different from "F you, you idiot." And as the post specifically states it was directed at the volunteer, it seems a lot more like option #2 to me.

  142. Anonymous

    "Ppl cuss in 2022" They also drink and smoke...neither of which is appropriate on the job. Boundaries, policies, and guidelines are in place for a reason.

  143. Heather Bingham

    I'm an effer and jeffer myself, but if swearing isn't appropriate in the organisation and made the person on the other end feel bad, then you did need to address it. However, you don't seem to have understood why your employee was pushed to that point. A great manager will always find out the "why" before proceeding down the disciplinary route. As an example, the employee may be under immense pressure and this was their way of showing it. Or they may be having a dreadful time away from the office and this was the straw that broke the camel's bad. You also cannot discount that they may have seen behaviours in the volunteer that hit their values and those of your organisation hard, which you may have missed. Managers should not shy away of disciplinary procedures, but you really need to go all around the issue in question before you decide to go down that route.

  144. Denise Williams

    Very valid points, Heather. The "connect, before correct" approach is more vital than ever in the workplace. From the information provided by the original poster, it is hard to determine if that was effectively applied here. The employee's decision to leave so abruptly would give me the impression that at least to the employee, it was not. Digging deeper into the root cause and ensuring the employee truly feels heard will likely help avoid these types of rash reactions in the future. If the employee is dealing with numerous external pressures, this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, and regardless of how well the manager handled the situation, the employee may have made the decision to leave regardless.

  145. Ruth A. Ford, PHR

    Oh my gosh -- do NOT second guess yourself.
    I currently work in HR and I have worked in the nonprofit world. I also live in a somewhat conservative state. And while f-bombs might fly within my household and within my personal life, that isn't how I conduct myself at work and it would be even more inappropriate when dealing with a volunteer...and it doesn't matter if the volunteer was "wrong" or pushy or an idiot or whatever. The employee has the greater responsibility to represent the organization accordingly and not alienate volunteers and potential donors. I would also say that anyone who would quit over this instead of accepting and learning from the feedback is probably better off at another organization. I also know individuals who have been terminated from nonprofit organizations for similar indiscretions...so again, it sounds like a verbal warning was more than fair.

    And, this is about more than the f-bomb; it's about self-discipline and knowing your audience.

  146. Anonymous

    This may have already been said but I think another consideration is teachability. I think that is an asset you have that the former employee may not. As a former volunteer coordinator for a non-profit, I have dealt with similar situations. It's always good to get as much information as you can before taking action but I think ultimately you were right to not let this slide. Something I've learned the hard way is that minimizing these situations can lead to unhealthy dynamics between staff, resentment, and even regular volunteers walking away. When you rely on volunteers you have to keep their treatment in high regard-not only that of your staff.

  147. Ellyn Specker Charap

    Hmm. OK, first, let me just say two things: 1) How hard do you rock for wanting to learn from it!?!? ... and 2) managing people is SO HARD and I hear you, and I'm sorry you had to handle all of that! I have a difficult employee myself right now, and I feel you, sister.

    As to your question, my response may feel crappy - I apologize for making you feel crappy but I'm a professional sociolinguist, so I think it's important to put it out there that sometimes the way we conceptualize something (e.g., giving a discipline or a warning, vs. giving advice) affects our behavior whether we intend it to or not.

    I think it's quite interesting that you use the word, "discipline" repeatedly here. "Discipline" is a word that generally is used by a teacher or parent or pet owner with regard to a child or pet, not an adult human. You discipline your child, but you wouldn't discipline your next door neighbor - instead you'd have a discussion, right?

    It could be that in "disciplining" your former employee, somewhere in your tone or body language you conveyed that power differential.

    So let me ask - did you "discipline" or did you have a one-on-one where you pointed out that the f-bomb is against the handbook's bylaws and even if the volunteer makes her want to lose her "s-bomb," it isn't appropriate to curse in an office at all, much less curse at someone else, so please, if the volunteer drives her insane again, just count to ten, smile, excuse herself, come find you, and then you can vent together?

    If you gave her a "warning" rather than some counsel, yeah, I can imagine that she quit because she was hurt and offended that you treated her like a child or pet. If you sat down and told her cursing isn't allowed but come vent to me when they begin to make you crazy... and she still left? Well, then she wasn't a fit for the company or you.

  148. Jennifer Klinko

    Does anyone else find the term "discipline" offensive whilst referring to adults? I think the connotation it implies might be indicative of a work atmosphere that just doesn't suit certain personality types. Perhaps your talk was just the final nail in the coffin for an employee who doesn't want to be treated like a child.

  149. Anonymous

    So what word would you prefer? The definition is:

    1.Training to act in accordance with rules; 2. An activity, exercise, or regimen that develops or improves a skill; 3. A branch of instruction or learning; 4. Punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.

  150. Anonymous

    How about "correction" instead?

  151. Anonymous

    Well, while she felt your verbal warning was too harsh, you actually were being lenient by company standards.

    Personally, if there's a no swearing rule, and she felt like she couldn't abide by it, you dodged a bullet. Swearing directed at someone is also not great. It would make a big difference if she made an off hand remark about "This effing day" or something similar, but that doesn't sound like the case.

    This is from someone who swears like a sailor about BS but never AT coworkers/customers and would not tolerate the behavior from a coworker) boss either.

  152. Anonymous

    Was the rule clearly visible

    for the employee to see at any time? I can understand her frustration if the rule is not clearly communicated. It can feel like an “impossible situation” to please a boss who communicates rules that are not published for l to see. It can feel ”unfair” if the employee already believes Thad they are being “disciplined” more than their peers. It’s important to understand why they feel it was “unfair.” That May suggest that a dynamic was a really at play prior to the situation. I wonder… has the same person who received the swear word been insulting your employee? We must also take care to protect our employees.

  153. Anonymous

    You're over thinking it. She probably was going to leave anyway and is being naughty because she has no feeling of responsibility anymore.

  154. Anonymous

    I actually just quit my job under sorta similar circumstances. I didn’t act inappropriately or anything, but I felt my work was being unfairly evaluated, my manager didn’t have my back and even “threw me under the bus” a bit, and also a coworker got snippy with me. These things each really upset me, because I know they were unjustified, and it’s not worth it to me in this phase of my life to have anything about work that makes me cry. Especially when my pay is below market.

    If you are working at a nonprofit using volunteers, I’m gonna guess the job is low pay? I don’t know the circumstances under which this employee said the f-bomb. But if she still feels it was justified… well I can imagine some circumstances where I’d feel that - like if a volunteer said something inappropriately sexual to me or unwanted touch, I might say to “f off”. Or maybe your employee said the word casually, like when she stubbed her toe or something and, sure better to never say it at work, but the volunteer is reporting something benign that wasn’t actually directed at him/lying and she’s getting in trouble for it. I don’t know the circumstances, I’d be curious to know why she feels it was unfair. Like it could be a clear technical violation of policy, but still feel unfair.

    That would be the lesson for me to make sure I have like “buy-in” from the employee if I’m reprimanding them. Do they agree what happened was their bad? And, if not, why not? We can’t move forward if we don’t agree on that. If she has a point, maybe even let her know I empathize but “the rules the rule” or whatever - and I’ll be there to help her get back on track - just so she knows I care about how she feels.

    These days I think a lot of people feel the way that your former employer/I do, which is that if work is being “unfair” to us and causing emotional stress, it’s not worth it. Certainly not for low pay.

    I’m not saying you actually were unfair. I really don’t know. I’m just trying to explain her probable mindset. If her actions were really clearly wrong (both according to policy and like “morally”) and she still doesn’t see it, then it’s honestly probably not a good organizational fit anyway and it’s probably for the best she quit. And, where I think you could improve, so as not to be blindsided by someone quitting, is to make sure you really understand where your employee is at/that you are on the same page when you have these kinds of conversations.

    I will say, for me, my manager seemed entirely unsurprised when I gave my notice. Haha.

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