Advice about handling a problematic employee when management is concerned about retention (and appearances of turnover)?

19 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 12:28PM UTC

   I have documented each error and delay in a real time fashion and made my manager aware of the problem, risk and cost. Since you have no power and authority (I had a similar issue at the time), no one is asking what you think should be done. So you keep the problems well documented and leave the action up to those higher up the chain. This way you are doing you job and not overstepping your authority.

2. GirlBossanova934974October 20,2024 at 12:46PM UTC

   I am a bit lost here. As a business owner myself, I am still looking for a reason to get rid of Jo and I can't find it. First and foremost, do you have a sick leave and regular PTO policy? Is Jo within the limits on his/her allowed sick leave and/or PTO days? Has Jo gone beyond the allowed limit? If not, it is time to manage around Jo. If Jo has gone beyond the limit, it is time to go to HR and report the attendance issue. What other problems are there? I don't see mention of them. HR is going want to get a fully DOCUMENTED LIST Of ISSUES if you go to them. PS: I used to work for an organization where attendance was a huge issue with the entire group! Just about everyone had some personal grievance or axe to grind just about every day. I couldn't get anything done as I was always waiting around for the hurt little egos to show up for work. These folks made it a practice to broadcast their hurt feelings and maladies in the group's SLACK channel. Now there's a PROBLEM!

3. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 12:57PM UTC

   Sorry - by "missing work" I mean work that doesn't get done or is late. Not attendance issues, though that was a problem when they first started.

4. GirlBossanova934974October 22,2024 at 4:48PM UTC

   In that case, why not just be DIRECT? Cut the angst and speculation. HI JO! Hmm. Maybe you could help me out with something here which is kind of bothering me.....Last THU, I asked you to get XYZ project done by TUE of this week. Here it is THU of this week and I still haven't seen it. WHAT GIVES? Still working on it? What can we clear off your plate to help this get out and done? You know, Jo! I am responsible to getting that work out to so and so and now they're calling me........We have to be timely around here or PEOPLE GET UPSET! My boss for instance. I DON"T NEED some daily status report or anything like that. Let's NOT waste each other's time. But let's GET ER DONE! Got it??

5. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 12:53PM UTC

   The person may be in over their head and, like you said, a bad hire (which often happens in high turnover teams). Talk to your manager about putting the person on a PIP with a termination/transfer/demotion clause. If the real issue is your UI insurance, this may be a way around that. Also, see if the manager will recommend this person for an internal transfer to a different team where they have the skills.

6. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 12:58PM UTC

   Yes, I think another team would benefit from Jo's skills. That is part of the bad hire - fit issue.

7. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 2:22PM UTC

   The whole missing work has to be improved . But some of their mistakes could be from you. Confusing emails and what not. Maybe try to come up with better instructions and communication styles with this employee. Just not be working with them. Seems like your trying to make your mark.

8. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 5:32PM UTC

   I tried to keep my post short, but I am working with Jo and trying various modes of communication. Part of the issue is that Jo rushes through work. In the case of the email they read back to me, the instructions were very clear - Jo said I told them to do Y but the email only mentioned X. In some cases, Jo's lack of attention to detail is not a big deal, but in other cases it causes me and other team members to do more work.

9. Gigi Barnier BurkeOctober 20,2024 at 4:35PM UTC

   Jo may be resistent to your constructive criticism because that is all they are hearing. Have you offered any positive feedback? Also, email style can vary. Try sending the important items as bullet points with instructions to please review and and make sure all items are addressed. You don't say why Jo was a bad hire. If the job is not being understood, additional training my be needed. If there are other team members that do a similar job, tell the whole team that you'd like them to shadow each other to see how others do the same tasks. (When receiving training and someone tells me "I like to do this..." I feel like the thing they are describing is optional. Then later I hear that same person say I trained you to do it the way I do. Which is not what I heard.

10. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 5:41PM UTC

    That is a good point about training and personal preferences. I've recently pulled in the rest of the team to review deliverables together, so that Jo gets a sense of team norms. I've also provided SOPs, bulleted recaps of conversations and positive feedback. I think Jo was a bad fit because they have not shown the maturity or initiative required for our work, which centers on strategy and external relationships.

11. Christine FordOctober 20,2024 at 9:01PM UTC

    you are a new manager so be sure you are not just cutting bait on someone you inherited because they don't totally fit your style. It's easy to be a leader when you get to pick your team, real leadership comes in when you can inspire people you didn't hand pick. That said, there are some that just don't want to come around or are just not in the right role. Do your diligence on the situation and document everything. I'd make HR aware that this is starting to become an issue but you are addressing it now and will keep them posted. Do the kinds of things you would do for a pip plan, such as really being clear with your requirements and tell them what they need to do and then following up on them. You don't have to make it official yet but you can let them know that if no improvements this is where it could lead. Letting them know when there's a problem and not just doing it yourself to not deal with it. Do not set a precedent of letting it lie. Have a good honest talk about your assessment of their performance and where you see it leading if no improvements are made. If that doesn't work then start a PIP plan. As a manager your team counts on you to not let something like this linger. That's your job. And you never do anyone any favors by keeping them in a role they don't belong in. Every day they spend in a job like that just degrades their self esteem and moves them further away from where they should be. But first, make sure you can honestly say you've given it a good solid try.

12. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 9:18PM UTC

    Thank you. This is very helpful.

13. AnonymousOctober 20,2024 at 9:29PM UTC

    Team building. See if that helps and bring your difficult employee into a culture of collaboration. Sometimes you inherit what appears to be a bad egg but it’s a person who may have had negative experiences there with previous management. Ask your employees in 1:1 meetings, what you can do to help them succeed. Show interest but if truly the person keeps missing work you have a process it sounds like you’re following. I’ve worked with crappy teammates who were always out and truly took advantage of PTO. At some point they left, but it left a mark on the rest of us as we had to pick up the work. If this person is so unhappy perhaps they should go elsewhere. Having a serious 1:1 with documentation, and a verbal warning then explanation of a PIP may help or maybe they will leave on their own.

14. AnonymousOctober 21,2024 at 10:54AM UTC

    Remember that retaining a problematic employee does not help with retention. If other employees see someone consistently getting away with something, exhibiting poor behavior, they have to pick up slack of problem employee, etc. that will demotivate good employees.

15. Janice MasonOctober 21,2024 at 1:18PM UTC

    I quit a job after one month due to a toxic work environment (I was in tears every day on the way home!) I filed for unemployment and was denied, even after explaining to unemployment what was happening when UI called me. UI does not pay much at all (you certainly do not get the amount you were making while employed (maybe about half). Try to stay while you look for another position. Fortunately I found a position that I love and have been there almost five years!

16. AnonymousOctober 21,2024 at 2:27PM UTC

    Since you quit ( toxic work environment) , UI doesn't care about that. Quitting is Quitting . Glad you found a better job .

17. Nicole HowardOctober 21,2024 at 2:52PM UTC

    I sort of had the same problem. Except I was there for 6 months. It was hell there. The supervisor and manager were the worst. I had a mental breakdown and quit. I filed for UI every week for about 6 months before I gave up because I was denied. 6 months later I started receiving huge lump sums of money in my bank account and was freaking out because I didn't know where it was coming from but after hours on the phone with my bank and the IRS I found out that I actually did get approved even though it said I was denied. I got $11,000.00 back pay. I had also applied for food stamps but never heard back from them and then finally had when I got that money so food stamps owed me $1250 in stamps. I was so greatfull for all of it because I just ran out of money and was freaking out about paying bills. So never give up. Keep applying.

18. JB09718October 21,2024 at 3:36PM UTC

    I would just push to have her transferred to another department. It’s possible that the turnover rate on your team is high due to her toxicity so moving her elsewhere would improve team morale too. If the other manager fires her it won’t affect your team’s turnover rate either. If management won’t agree to the move, continue to work with her and encourage her to apply for transfers as they become available. You can go to HR over management but it’ll burn bridges with management. It’ll likely impact all other areas of your job too, like budget approvals, headcount increases, etc. better to keep management happy for now until you’ve exhausted all other options

19. Jackie RukaOctober 22,2024 at 3:25PM UTC

    Retaining an employee who is not doing their role and not addressing the issues without consequences to the employee just reinforces the problem . Poor leadership is keeping a toxic employee and only benefits no one. Good employees leave based on poor leadership , low pay and a toxic workplace or boss.