Need advice...

Anonymous

June 11,2023 at 7:14PM UTC

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Need advice...

First of all, I want to preface this by saying I'm definitely not a "work yourself into the ground" type. I believe in mental health days and that no is a complete sentence when asked to work extra if you don't want to. And I'd never ask anyone to work while sick.

Basically, after I counseled one employee that she had reached her allowance of call-offs for the quarter with a verbal warning, she immediately provided a MD note for the next one. No problem! Only, it was Wednesday before a holiday weekend she was scheduled to work (this is a community health clinic, so weekends and holidays included). Her return to work date was Tuesday. Seemed excessive to me, but I'm not her doctor, so I got things covered and let it slide. Other employees who know her on Facebook did go out of their way to mention she seemed to be having a lot of fun over the weekend, but I didn't get into that discussion. I hadn't even mentioned why I took her off the schedule, but she apparently told them herself, so that's on her.

Now, each successive call-off seems to give her a week or so off at a time. If there were no MD notes, that would be one thing, but since there are, and they are faxed to me promptly, I don't feel it's my place to pry as her supervisor. If her doctor writes for the days, he writes for them. Plus, if she does have more serious health issues that she's not disclosing, that's her business. It's only that there is a pattern, that these notes have covered extra days at the end of previously requested (and approved) days off and weekends, and my own superiors have noted the pattern and started to question it. Obviously, I'm going to suggest resources if she needs them when I speak to her next, including that she consider applying for FMLA, but I'd appreciate advice regarding the line between overstepping my bounds and looking like I am ignoring the issue.

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AnonymousJune 11,2023 at 10:14PM UTC
Oh wow; she's totally working the system! Horrible behavior, especially from someone working for a community clinic. Shows no integrity or empathy.
Have you spoken to HR to see how you can let her go? The need to be staffed is obvious and she doesn't care about the job or people it impacts.
AnonymousJune 11,2023 at 10:36PM UTC
Not a good place to put you. I think your approach of not getting into questioning and assuming is commendable given the excessive nature of these requests.
The FMLA suggestion is natural and to be expected. I would also sit down with your supervisor and HR to learn more about the company's policy and gain clarity if there are other suggested approaches to consider.
Good luck. This is not fun and might impact the moral of your team.
AnonymousJune 12,2023 at 12:19PM UTC
I agree with getting a formal meeting with HR at the table to explain FMLA. I would not approach her without someone else at the table. Also checking the doctor’s credentials would be helpful. Do you have the ability to cut her hours so you can hire someone who is willing to work?
AnonymousJune 11,2023 at 11:25PM UTC
My first thought was that these are not actually from the doctor. Can you check that it's a legit local medical office/licensed physician and then call their business number (not just based on the number on the faxed notes) to confirm that the note was sent and covered start date to end date. I've got graphic design background and could fake something like that in 10 minutes (5 if I had a good starting point like a legit note and less than 2 minutes effort once I had a solid template). And then, yeah, take it to FMLA with a second opinion from the doctor of your choice.
KatJune 12,2023 at 3:19PM UTC
You are obviously being taken advantage of by this person. It's time to take action. Verify that the doctor and excuses are legit - the notes could be easily faked as someone else pointed out. Even if the doctor/clinic is real, they could be working with this person to extend her vacations. Talk to HR so that you know how the company's leave plan (sick/vac/other time off) and FMLA works. Ask HR for guidance on how to proceed with the situation, up to and including termination steps. Once you know the company's policy, meet with the worker (preferably with an HR person) and tell her it's time to get an FMLA plan together for her. The plan will require documentation of her condition(s) and the accommodations needed for them. [I highly doubt a week off around vacations will be included.] Once that's in place, put her on notice that excessive absenteeism can lead to a PIP and possible firing. When I worked in a medical clinic, I had a co-worker with multiple health issues that caused her to be absent frequently. Pretty sure she had an FMLA plan on file for it. My boss was able to fire her for excessive absenteeism because she was not meeting the expectations for her job. Sorry you've been put in this situation and I hope you can figure out a solution, even if it means finding a replacement for this person.
Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachJune 12,2023 at 4:03PM UTC
Check with HR because given the extent of absences FMLA may even be required. Remind her that FMLA is to protect her so it’s a good thing.
And do check for the medical license of the doctor. Send the note to HR. Maybe they can verify?
At this point you can’t question her about the suspicious timing. I’d try to see if you are permitted to validate the notes and require her to apply for FMLA. Isn’t she running out of sick leave by now?
AnonymousJune 12,2023 at 6:04PM UTC
I think you have to address the elephant in the room. Let her know that HR and leadership have noticed this pattern and while you want to be able to give her the time she needs to get healthy when she is ill others are concerned that she is taking advantage of the company and that it is putting her at risk. Get your legal dept involved as well and document everything. If you have social media things that you can screenshot save them in case you have to do a termination because if she is ill then she cannot be out partying as well. Remain professional but don't aid and abet her. You could also contact the doctors office with legal in tow or send them a note to confirm the notes are valid and not forged.
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 5:14PM UTC
Yes, documentation is very important.
Joycelyn M. SiameJune 13,2023 at 12:24PM UTC
What I'm not understanding, and please don't take offense to this, as it is not my intention, how many sick/personal/vacation days do you guys have? Geez Louise. if she is taking, what seems like, weeks off, on end, is she just forgoing pay, or using PTO? If there is unlimited PTO, you may want to revisit your policy. If she has fairly accrued all these days off, then that's a tough case. If she isn't taking pay and jus taking off, maybe you can offer her position as part time, or per diem? This is kind of tough, but I do agree with the other comments. Get HR and legal involved to properly navigate how to get a handle on this, because it is obvious something is going on, and have her sign up for FMLA, due to concern for her and her well-being if she is "sick". Good luck.
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 12:30PM UTC
Is the employee hourly or salaried? Is she taking PTO or unpaid time for all these leaves? The bigger problem is it seems like she's not working the hours she needs to work and your other staff is having to cover, so something needs to be done. I'd go to HR and find out what you're legally allowed to say because if someone is taking this much medical time off then I think discussing whether a more formal change (FMLA or going to part time only) would be most appropriate here. Leaving everyone hanging (whether it's to party or not) is not appropriate or fair to the rest of the team.
Shelley MunroJune 13,2023 at 12:57PM UTC
Meet with HR immediately and discuss the intermittent FMLA provision, or any other leave options based on your organizations size, profit/not for profit/federal contractor status, etc. Has the employee been with the company long enough to be eligible? This is to protect the employee and the company. First impression is the same as some others here: she’s taking advantage of the system. Unfortunately, her behavior may also be creating a culture you don’t want amongst the other employees. It may also lead to top management reconsidering their PTO/Vacation/Personal/Sick leave policies. In other words she could be ruining a good thing for everyone. Therefore, you need to get this situation resolved. If she truly needs the time it will come out in the FMLA documentation.
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 1:03PM UTC
Completely agree with the comments already made. I think it would also be appropriate for you or HR to call the doctors office and confirm the validity of the MD notes sent. This isn't asking for medical details at all or prying - just asking the office to confirm that Dr. XYZ sent MD notes for XYZ patient on the following days.
I say this because I wonder if the MD notes are legitimate or not. Could she be making her own and submitting them?
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 1:55PM UTC
Please translate for Americans. Is a call off what we call calling in sick? What’s FLMA?
I understand the gist of it though. First of all distance yourself as much as you possibly can. This is a very hot potato. Ask HR to take over the handling of this. It is past your pay grade to deal with health issues that may or may not be phony. If someone needs verification from the doctor, you should not be the one making the phone call- hand it off to HR
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 2:18PM UTC
FMLA is American, actually. Family Medical Leave Act: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 5:37PM UTC
Hot Potato - Exactly Right!!
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 5:28PM UTC
Not knowing her role, the question HR should be asking of the doctor is whether she can perform her duties, or are with reasonable accomodations, can she perform her duties. If her illness falls under FMLA, that's one thing- if it doesn't, then it becomes a matter of policy and her ability to do her job. HR should know how to handle.
AnonymousJune 13,2023 at 10:21PM UTC
I had a very similar issue. My HR requires us to invoke FMLA for the individual. If they do not pursue that is on them. But the focus is whether her excessive absences are impacting her work and her team’s ability to provide coverage. Depending on the employer while she can’t be discharged or disciplined for being Ill, her performance being effected due to absences is a viable path unless she invokes FMLA. Then you really need an hr expert to help with this thorny issue.
AnonymousJune 14,2023 at 12:03AM UTC
HR is a must to protect you both. I've had employees dealing with personal/health stuff and when we identified more time is / was needed transparently talked about taking the right steps again for them and the company with HR so policies and the employee were protected. We were all guided with steps for FMLA, documentation, and communication of what was need. It helped so my employee and I could remove the unknowns and work together. In another scenario, I had an employee start demonstrating a pattern. I feel confident in saying I build trust with my teams, have open communication (including a note in a 1x1 suggesting give me 5 min to just rant - it's ok and good for both of us so I don't go into solution mode + allow me just to listen without judgement and really hear them). I asked him finally what was really going on? I was a younger manager not quite equipped to lead with career path discussions yet learned in that experience more about areas of passion and ultimate career path goals. Instead of a negative and abrupt break, we slowly parted ways with them stepping back up, planning for transition that was smooth and positive. They did a good job in their role, but they weren't passionate about that path. Rather than unplug, we worked together. Today, they are operating in a role way more aligned with their passion. At the time, we were able to plan for a transition. Perhaps this was a fluke / best case moment, but all it took was honest dialogue. I'd ask directly what's up while again offering transparency on wanting to include HR and support with policies / promoting FMLA resources and info for example.
froerden@yahoo.comJune 14,2023 at 1:45PM UTC
Faxed???
She’s playing you. Stop accepting the phony doctor notes and fire her. It’s not fair to you, the company and all the hard working employees who show up every day.
AnonymousJune 14,2023 at 1:50PM UTC
Unless there is FMLA she would have been let go. We do not accept or allow Dr's notes as we only have PTO and not sick or vacay days.
Rosa GoesJune 15,2023 at 12:35AM UTC
I agree with others in getting HR involved. It's a sensitive topic. I would say you can go another route and focus on the job itself by stating that the position requires someone who is reliable, consistent, dependable, team player, etc. You don't mention how long she has been with the clinic/company, or when this started happening. But I think FMLA is a good suggestion to avoid disruption and resentment among other employees.
IntentionGirl299847June 15,2023 at 9:49PM UTC
I have never known any reputable Dr to write notes like that. Are you sure these are legit and not being written by a friend in the Dr.s office or even forged? Just sounds fishy to me. I worked at a company that would call the Drs office and only ask if they had written an excuse for Jane Doe and for how many days. The employees signed waivers that allowed HR to ask about the notes and only the notes. Got burned by a forger and one who was friends with the staff in Drs office.
Vivian HwaJune 30,2023 at 1:25AM UTC
I am a union rep for my workplace. I appreciate your approach and attitude. The correct/fair way to deal with this is to think about how their absence affects the workload, workload on others, quality of output, etc. At some point, if they are not reliable and cause stress and crisis for everyone else, she needs to think if this job and her health issues are compatible. You wouldn't be wrong to have that convo and say her job is at risk. Fmla is a must. Protects both sides and makes the rules and expectations clear.