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Work on-site mandate

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Work on-site mandate

I work from home most of the time and only go to the office on random days when I want to meet people in person, mainly because I have a long commute, 1.5 hours each way. My NEW manager asked me to attend meetings in person at least on Fridays last week. I feel I am losing control of how I work, and being micromanaged. Any insight on how to deal with the change or if it is worth a conversation with my new manager would be appreciated. Thanks!

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  1. Anonymous

    In this situation, management has the upper hand.
    Remote is dwindling. If they allow you to zoom call, everyone has the opportunity

    JMO

  2. Anonymous

    Is your approved WFH arrangement documented anywhere? Were you hired as a remote worker or did you at some point covert to full time remote work? If you did, simply remind your new manager of your approved arrangement and let her know that you’ll try to make as many meetings as you can, but that your schedule doesn’t otherwise allow for you to be there every Friday or for every meeting.

    If your remote work is not documented then I would go ahead and do that. And inform the new manager that you have been working remotely (presumably on an approved basis) and while it was not documented formally, you’ve relied on the previous arrangement and have built your work schedule around remote work with the flexibility of when to be in office. And then submit a formal documentation-if necessary.

  3. Anonymous

    In general there is a return to office work.

    I'm assuming 1.5 hours isn't normal where you live? I live in NJ and when I worked in NYC it was common.

    If you don't have public transportation, tell your boss that every hour you spend in traffic is an hour you could be working at home.

  4. Anonymous

    This logic won’t land well. not sure the boss will bend the rules for a single staffer this isn’t very equitable fir others on the team. Then next week, one of the OPs colleagues will be on this board complaining how one person squawked about her commute and got a work around. If I went to my job and made the argument that every hour commuting was time spent not working, they’d say: your commute=your problem.

  5. Anonymous

    I’m not sure asking you to come to a single in-person meeting once a week qualifies as micromanaging. There’s a new sheriff in town and it sounds like they could care less about your 90 minute commute. Think carefully about how you’ll proceed if you like this job otherwise. I’d hate for them to say the position is being eliminated or it’s full time in-person because you’ve dug your heels in over one day a week.

  6. Anonymous

    It sounds like maybe your new manager wants to make sure they know who you are. I don't know if having to be in the office one day a week is a hill to die on. I would say do it for a few weeks and then maybe raise the question of having it be every other week that you come in or see if there are other ways to fulfill whatever requirement you're meeting by attending this IRL session.

    Also, as someone else has said, depending on where you in the country 1.5 hours isn't that long of a commute. I live in NYC, and it used to take me an hour to 1.5 to get from Queens to the Bronx. That was five days a week before remote work really took off.

  7. Alexis Gladstone

    To me this isn't micromanaging. This is setting an expectation on how they want work to get done. You need to decide if this is important enough for you to talk to your manager. Unless you were hired as a fully remote worker, and have that documentation, your manager has every right to set this expectation, and the more I read, it's becoming quite common.

    If you do need to go in every week, I would schedule all of my in-person meetings on Friday so it makes the commute worthwhile.

  8. Anonymous

    If the manager is asking everyone to come in the office on the same day every week for in person meetings, you can not agree with it and you can not like it, but I don't think that your manager making that request qualifies as micromanagement. In many places 1.5 hrs is a normal commute, however if this is not sustainable for you then unfortunately your choices are to either move closer to your office or find a new job that's either closer to your home or one where you can work FT remote. Wishing you the best of luck.

  9. Anonymous

    I have no idea what kind of world you live in where 1.5 hours is not an insane commute.
    I would start job searching OP

  10. Anonymous

    the OP stated it is 90 minutes one way. I don't think that is a normal commute for anyone unless they are taking public transportation.

  11. Cara Gardner

    Am in agreement with the other comments here. Being asked to come in for meetings is not unreasonable, and especially since it seems to just be on Fridays.

    Pre-covid I had a commute that was 1-1.5hr going in and 1.5-2hr going home. It was only 26 miles, but welcome to bad traffic in a major city! I listened to So many books on audible!

    At that time, I was commuting daily. I eventually did have a conversation with my manager because she and my coworker were in different cities. So, I was commuting into an office and not even seeing my team. She let me work from home 2 days as well as sometimes I would go into office in the morning, and home at lunch, as then the drive home was only 35 minutes. (amazing the time difference without traffic!) I'd work rest of day from home.

    All that to say, to be called in for in-person meetings ONE day a week, is not unreasonable. I think you got into a cozy routine and don't like the disruption. The real truth - It's not your company, you don't make the rules.

  12. Anonymous

    You will just need to suck it up for now. It is not unreasonable to be asked to come into the office Your commute time is not a factor. Yes, it is long - learn to embrace podcasts or books on tape, use the drive as unwind time. While working from home is great, your employer has the right to ask/tell/expect you to be in the office. I use to commute almost that long each way for work, I took the bus and train and then walked. Back then there was no such thing as a cellphone so looked forward to having no one need me/talk to me/bother me for a set amount of time. Your manager isn't trying to micromanage you, your manager wants to see your face in the office. So, plan more meetings in person on Fridays, make use of the time you are there.

    Unless you hate your job, then start looking for another one.

  13. Shelly Katzeff

    Working remotely is a result of Cpvid, one that benefited both the employees and employers in an unprecedented time. Now that the pandemic has subsided, it is not unreasonable for a boss to require in house attendance for 1 or 5 days. He is in charge and it is in his purview to steer his ship as he sees fit. If you make an issue of this, you have much more to lose than your boss does! I believe it is in your best interest to follow his request and if these requirements do not align with your preferences, I suggest that you look for employment elsewhere.

  14. Soul School

    I would revisit your employment contract. If it stated that you are to work remotely 100 percent of the time then you have some leverage. If not, the manager has every right to ask for an onsite meeting. I'm wondering if you are open to looking a little deeper, you feel you are losing control of HOW you work, being micromanaged. Is. there anyone from your past that attempted and was successful in controlling you. Perhaps a parent, teachers, partners, etc. You may have some unresolved pain with that experience that is flowing into your work situation. I know when I work from home I tend to over-isolate and it takes some time to get back into seeing others one on one. I think it's a very healthy and necessary human experience to be in the presence of others instead of having all remote meetings. There is wonderful opportunity for bonding which will drop so many yummy brain chemicals and fortify your immune system. I would look into any part of your that is resisting this positive experience :)

  15. li anna

    Thank you for everyones comments. I will start going on Fridays and see how it goes. I think my discomfort came from fear of losing the flexibility and more things may become mandatory. eg, take on more tasks because my manager thinks it is good for me, and I do not know how to say no yet.

  16. Anonymous

    Regarding saying no, it's always a good idea to ask if you should reprioritize what's already on your plate when something new is assigned. If one task begets many more tasks, then that becomes a conversation about title and compensation.

  17. Anonymous

    So you don’t want to go in 1 day a week and you are scared of taking on more tasks relevant to your job?
    WHAT??? You are joking, yes?

  18. Anonymous

    If enough people take advantage of any situation the remote leniency might be revoked entirely so remember that.

    Or they could make everyone start clocking in or mandate work hours !

  19. Anonymous

    Working from home is not promised

  20. J McGovern

    As others have said, unless your employment contract specifically says 100 percent remote, you need to follow company expectations. And 1.5 hours is not a terrible commute, depending on where you live, and you're already making it when you feel like it.

    I get not wanting to be micromanaged. There is a push to go back to the office, but in some cases the company culture is such that they want to see you working. Hopefully that's not the case here.

    Is there a reason you don't want to approach your manager? It's rough having a new boss, but he may be trying to get to know you and giving you a chance to get to know him. Why not take the first step?

    Good luck. It's a hard situation to be in.

  21. Anonymous

    Asking you to show up in person one day a week is not being micromanaged. Just ask someone who has been. Yes, it is a long commute, but think of it as demonstrating you are part of your team. You can always look for a position closer to your home.

  22. Anonymous

    Yes, start your own company.
    Then you can set the work days and make up your own rules. Frankly your managers request for going into the offices one day per week is a reasonable ask. They are not trying to control your work. They are trying to control the culture and input into their team which is their right to do so. I think you need to embrace the change and make the day in the office valuable to you and worth the time it takes for you to get there.

  23. Anonymous

    Well said!?

  24. Alicia

    Agreed

  25. Allie Bitzer

    Well said, fully agree with your comments.

  26. Anonymous

    Respectfully, my job is not my life. I shouldn't have to kiss any ass or spend my work day "socializing" if I need to get my work done. Which is what I end up doing in the office.

  27. Anonymous

    Then like the commenter said, start your own business. People are forgetting that they are employees. The company is allowed to ask whatever they want of you that is legal. There will always be demands of us as employees that require us to do things we do not want to do. You know what is worse? Being unemployed. That is much harder and stressful than driving into an office 1 day per week.

  28. Anonymous

    You're forgetting that just because you side with the employer, you're not automatically getting that raise, or that promotion. Stop being a pick me.

    People are forgetting they are employees? How about start remembering that before being employees, they are first and foremost PEOPLE. People with feelings, and obligations and interests that are not necessarily tied to their employment. Treat your people with respect and compassion. Or did you forget that kindness is free?

  29. Farah Bajwa

    Since its a new manager, did you have that work schedule conversation with them?

    No one is a mind-reader so find a way to have that conversation. Maybe they have no clue you're 1.5hrs away. Share the precedence with them that you work remotely and only drive up as-needed with advance planning and if some of these meetings can be held online

  30. JJ

    I would drive 3 hours for work occasionally if I loved my job and was well compensated.
    If you love driving, this could work. But if you do not have 100% remote in writing then your boss can ask you to come in at any point. It may he once per week or could become daily, giving you a 3 hour daily commute. I would be nervous and I would be getting things in writing from my new boss.

  31. Anonymous

    Working on site is not being micro managed
    As one experienced in the post college working world since 1986 I can say that ANY remote work is generous & some companies don't allow it AT ALL. Most of us had our babies and had to deal with daycare absent husband/father etc & more so that can't be the excuse.
    Sorry if this is harsh, but you can commute for ONE day and make the accommodations otherwise look for a new job.

  32. Anonymous

    Ok boomer. Most of us do not work well with the constant disruption being in office causes , some of us have legitimate disabilities (like ADHD and light triggered migraines), and in "your day" women just lived in poverty when they had to manage unaffordable childcare and underpayment in jobs. Just because you had it hard doesn't mean other people need to struggle. Stop being jealous, realize that the "snow uphill both ways" analogy benefits no one. It's not a privilege to be able to do your work more effectively.

  33. Anonymous

    Could not agree more! I am more focused and do better work at home. I have a progressive hearing disability and being in the office is increasingly difficult. The noise makes it hard for me to focus on my meetings. And when it's quiet, it makes my tinnitus a huge distraction. At home I can focus on meetings (and being on headphones means I can actually hear things!) and when it's quiet, I can put on music to mask my tinnitus.

    I also have ADHD, so that figures into it all too.

  34. J McGovern

    I’m sorry, but was it necessary to use, Ok Boomer and throw in a slew of stereotypes? It reeks of generational discrimination and does not help anyone. Please do better.

  35. Anonymous

    Lol, ma'am, the originally commenter literally said "Most of us had our babies and had to deal with daycare absent husband/father etc & more so that can't be the excuse." This also reeks of generational discrimination and didn't help anyone either but I don't see you bringing that up. You clearly missed the point that just because you had it hard or struggled doesn't mean that current and future generations should too.

  36. Cg

    I bet anything im as old as the poster. Boomer is a mindset and has nothing to do with people's ages. My boss is 20 years younger than me and is the most boomer person I know. The point is that "I had it hard so you need to too" is a very bad take and it just makes someone look out of touch with reality at best and like they lack empathy at worst. It's more than a little narcissistic of a take. You don't need to bully other people just because you grew up being bullied.

  37. Anonymous

    Whoa! As one experienced in the post college working world since 1979 I can say that remote work is NOT generous on the part of your employer even though I had to work and raise my children without it AT ALL. The only motivation of your employer is profit. The world is constantly changing. If you can do your job remotely then do so. Someone turn on a screen in the room during meetings and you are there. A change in policy with a new manager is something to discuss why it is necessary or whether its an ego and control issue. To the above poster you are looking like an angry old lady jealous of others opportunities. You can do better.

  38. Anonymous

    This comment was unsupportive. I am just a generation behind you and in my 40s. I started officially working a W2 role in 1995. Companies had work from home for specific types of roles during my childhood but generally this was because it saved them money, first and foremost. Not out of "generosity".

    I know that being given something other people have had for years, may seem like you finally got treated with equality and should be grateful but acknowledging a privilege is not the same as being aware that some things are not about us and more about lean efficiency.

  39. Anonymous

    Honestly, because you suffered, I would think that you would be open to a future where people do not have to endure what you did. Don't be upset because the current generation is speaking up for themselves and not just blindly taking the bullshit for a job that likely wouldn't think twice if they needed to fire you for whatever reason they conjure up. Just because it has "always been done that way" doesn't mean that it was the correct way, or that it is not time for an update.

    If you wanna put it in perspective, women were also not allowed to vote, not allowed to get an education, not allowed to have their own bank accounts - and here we are! I'm sure you wouldn't like to go back to those times, and you sure as hell would not appreciate someone telling you "back in my day...." and knocking you down just because they didn't benefit from the freedoms you do now.

  40. Anonymous

    I'm likely close to that person's age group and I cannot stand that "back in my day.." garbage. Some people evolve with the times and some, well, just stay small, resentful, and bitter. I don't understand the attitude, either.

  41. Anonymous

    I find this attitude of "it was hard for 'us' so you need to suck it up, too" is just garbage and completely ignores the evolution of technology.
    I too have experienced the post college world since the '80's, and I am happy to see the work space evolve and keep pace with technological advanced that allow for effective work across distances and timelines. There are companies that are 100% remote and some of these were operating fully remote even before the pandemic. It is not 'generous', it is business as usual for many. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you don't get a medal for historically working in a world that didn't have these options available. And you don't get to wag your finger and drag everyone back to an outdated work mode.

    These RTO policies are regressive, but the power is in the hands of the businesses now and they are using it to bolster their bottom line and appease shareholders. Every RTO directive I've seen has been swiftly followed by layoffs without new hires (obviously planned RIFs). There's really no need to give them anymore power by floating "back in my day" stories; trust me they don't need your help. I do agree the OP should go in that one day to keep their head off the chopping block.

  42. Anonymous

    I find it really strange when people have this mindset of "I had it hard, so everyone else should too." The working world has changed and evolved tremendously, especially since Covid, and it really showed that so many companies/employers were ruling with fear, control and micromanagement. The ability to be fully remote (or even hybrid eventually) was such a huge benefit for so many people in so many ways: mental/emotional/physical health, saving time and money on commuting, and the list goes on. Just because you were "forced" to work in a certain way, doesn't mean anyone else should be.

  43. Alicia

    This doesn’t sound like micromanaging, but an opportunity to start a dialog. It's absolutely a privilege to go in at your leisure. Moving the majority of your meetings to one day out of the week will appease her, and maybe the discussion of which day of the week that in-person meeting day is shows you're flexible and problem solver- not taking advantage of the arrangement.

  44. Anonymous

    You’re not being micromanaged by being asked to go into the office once per week. If this is no longer the job for you, move on. His/Her/Their request is a reasonable one.

  45. Anonymous

    Anyone who thinks a 1 1/2 hour commute is "nothing" is deluding themselves.

    That being said, it might be a good time to open a dialogue with your manager about expectations. Why do they want you in on Fridays? Are they planning on having larger meetings that might benefit with your being there in person? Do they want you to push all your meetings to done day if possible? Why this change? It doesn't sound like micromanagement from the outside, but I'd want to have a chat with my new manager on expectations and their reasoning for the change.

    And I completely understand where you're coming from. I've been working from home since the beginning of the pandemic and after 3 1/2 years the head of our company sent out some e-mail wanting people to start coming back in (even though we solid most of the building and we'd all have to share desks and bring our stuff in and out every day). I had a discussion with my manager and the director of our department and they allowed me to remain at home (partially because I do have a disability that is progressive and being at home makes it easier for me to be a part of meetings, etc.).

    But I go in once in awhile when we have larger meetings that they want me there for in person. But that's like...once or twice a year at this point.

  46. Anonymous

    It’s amazing how many people are stating 1.5h isn’t a bad commute!

    That’s anywhere from 75-85miles from home in NO TRAFFIC. She could be 30 miles from home and have horrible traffic which is why the commute is so long. That’s insane.

  47. Anonymous

    I thought a 20 minute commute sucked. 1 1/2 hours? NO THANKS. I'd find another job before going in on a regular basis with that kind of commute (heck, I'd quit my job if I was asked to go in every single day at this point anyway...that's a hard line NO for me).

  48. Anonymous

    One day a week isn't so bad. I have a longer commute too and have to go in 3 days a week.

  49. Anonymous

    Apples and Oranges.

    What load you carry is your own and has no bearing on what O.P. can afford to based her energy, health, salary, time, support system and other resources.

    We support her need to not work in person for whatever reasons. That's valid

  50. Shelly Hughes

    follow her lead and go in the office. I'm in office everyday, it's life............

  51. Anonymous

    Mandate and asked are two different things. I also don't believe it is an unreasonable request. More and more businesses are pushing to move back into the office. Having a conversation with your manager would be the appropriate course of action.

  52. Nicole Hillebrandt

    I'm finding that many people are being forced into being in the office again, including where I work. Consiering this is your new manager, I would play the game and deal with it. After some time, and you two know each other better including how you work, just play ball until the timing is better to have that conversation again about how much it means to you to work from home because it's much more productive. Everyone across the board is going through this - being forced back into the office more so than we we've been used to.

  53. Anonymous

    That's adding 3 precious hours to your workday! Three hours of your life wasted on commuting. I know companies are struggling with long leases on offices, but please give people that flexibility. We have shown we can work remotely for several years and get things done well. Don't take it personally, and see if they're flexible with when you're arriving and leaving the office, so at least you can move out of heavy traffic hours and perhaps add an hour of work when back at home. Once a week, when planned well, should be doable. Good luck!

  54. Anonymous

    Ok, I'm going to be in the minority here, but these are my thoughts. I actually agree with you that it is micromanaging simply because if you were doing your job effectively from home and only going in on random days as needed, then why does your new manager need you there on Fridays? And when people say company culture, I call b.s., the only reason a lot of companies want you in the office is because of office real estate and to watch what you're doing. I go into an office twice a week. And by God, it is waste of time. My commute is hell, (hour and a half each way too) and I get way less done. During lockdown, I actually got way more done, and even got two awards for my work. But I'm digressing. Look, you can ask your manager why she wants this and no, I don't think it's a reasonable ask, given that your previous schedule worked. I think it makes her feel better to have you come in. You say you are losing control and I agree with you. You are. How you handle it is up to you. She may even slowly increase your days to come in. And Friday is the worst day to come in. You can suck it up as others have said, ask her about it, or propose an alternative day. And you can dust off your resume and start looking. What annoys me about the push for "back to the office" is that no one can ever give a good reason as to why. People are draining and if you're in my situation without even an actual office but a cubicle it's bad. So those are my thoughts, you'll be told it's a reasonable request, but trust me it's not, it's controlling. You can stay or look for other work or maybe think about consulting and freelancing. Hope this helps and good luck to you.

  55. Anonymous

    You are assuming that the original poster is getting work done, etc. We do not know this. It's possible that she is being asked to go into the office for coaching, training, personal team collaboration. That is not micromanaging, that is development. There was also a comment about not being in control of your own work. It sounds like this poster wants to be the one saying when she goes into the office. I've been in my career for 29 years. Until my name is on the building, the business needs will always control my work, and I, to a large degree, will control how it is carried out. I'm a big proponent of remote work, where possible, but sometimes it's not possible. Organizational needs are always changing. Employees need to be adaptable, because the job market right now is crappy. I have so many colleagues who left for supposedly greener pastures, only to realize that there is craziness everywhere. So, do you stick to the crazy you know or jump into the crazy you don't know?

  56. Anonymous

    You emphasized "NEW" in your post. That's important. This manager doesn't know you or your work style well (I am assuming this) and so, it seems only fair (though disappointing) that he or she wants you to be present in office for a while. I am sorry about that. But the fact that you live 1.5 hours away is not your employer's problem- it is yours. And unless you've got a written contract that states you are not required to work in office, I think it's best to comply with this request. I think, over time, your new manager will see your work habits and feel better about allowing you more time at home (and less commuting on Fridays). We don't know anything about your work, your work habits, etc and neither does your manager...it's only fair to assume that he (or she) knows this is a change for you, but it's a necessary one for the manager. Go with the flow, and build trust.

  57. Denise Mayo-Walley

    Hi there.
    Yes, it is a change, BUT is it really an unreasonable ask? I am one who handles change with great difficulty so I understand. But if you were already going randomly, then resisting going on a set day may not be worth the perceived difficulty - especially in light of layoffs. I think it's easy for those in careers that ALLOW (not guarantee) working from home, to lose sight of the fact that many of us commute every single day. We do not like it, but it is life. So for job security purposes, as it seems companies are now looking for reasons to lay people off, do what you need to do to have income and comply. Try to focus on some pluses of communing with co-workers on a regular basis. Maybe some opportunity will arise from it.

  58. Anonymous

    My two cents here. Your boss is new. He/she probably is trying to build their connection with the team, get a feel for your style, etc. Unless you have an exclusive work from home contract. (It appears you don't as you have gone in on occasions), then as perverbial saying goes - suck it up buttercup and go in on the Friday request. In addition, dust off communication and dealing with difficult conversation skills and speak with your new manager. Talk about the commute, the desired goal of what you would.like to see happen as well.

    If you have the contract that states you are full.time remote or whatever terms you have, then use that as your discussion point.

    There is another answer that states it very elegantly. You choose to come in occasionally, so don't quibble

  59. Anonymous

    I was hired in 2019 as a remote worker and HQ is 1.75 hours and 125 miles away for me (one-way). I do commute into HQ about 1x/month for meeting heavy days and am reimbursed for mileage. If I was suddenly required to come in 1x/week and not get mileage, I would have to look for another job because the drivetime takes a lot out of me and I get nothing done when I'm in office except for meetings. Fridays is a weird day to commit to for meetings though; that in itself seems a little micromanaging.

  60. Anonymous

    I'm in that position right now, though it's worse as I'm now supposed to be coming in three days a week.
    I was quite clear with my manager that I had another job offer at the time I received this one, and I only accepted this one because I was told it was remote. I do not have a car, and my bus ride is over an hour each way-- almost two hours during rush hour, and it goes through some pretty dangerous areas so that's fun. I'm compromising by coming in twice a week instead of three times, but it's only a matter of time before the powers that be step in. When they do, I'm going to tell them they'll have to fire me if they have a problem with the sacrifice I'm already making not being enough for them. I've never been fired before in my life, so that'll be interesting. I'm also literally the only person at my company who does what I do, and they tend to panic whenever I take any PTO as it is...

    It's completely ridiculous as this policy only applies to employees living within 25 miles of the office, and we are an international company with the vast majority of people not living anywhere nearby and still getting to work fully remote. They have not upped the pay or offered incentives to anyone now being forced to come in, so we're making the same money while spending $$ to commute (we do not live in a cheap city) and still attending ALL of our meetings online because our other coworkers are remote. It's all because my employers owns the building and their other tenants left, yet they of course claim it's about "culture."

  61. Anonymous

    "Fridays is a weird day to commit to for meetings though; that in itself seems a little micromanaging." Actually it is often the best day for meetings depending on the type of business. It's not micromanaging to ask an employee to come in one day a week, especially when you are a new manager and getting to know your team.

  62. Anonymous

    I live on a major thoroughfare to a seasonal vacation destination, Fridays are the worst day to commute 8 months of the year. You don't know her circumstances or her location. If she feels micromanaged than she feels micromanaged, negating her feelings isn't helpful either.

  63. Anonymous

    I'm clearly in the minority here, but the manager, asked, they didn't mandate. I'd say no, or offer to lessen my time in the office to compensate for the commute (5-6 hours), ask for mileage reimbursement, something. These return to work requests (after productivity has increased in the worst possible circumstances) are asinine imho.

  64. Robin DAmato

    Have you always worked from home? Was that part of your hiring agreement? If not, the employer can expect employees to report to the office to work.

  65. Anonymous

    This is not micromanaging, it is a reasonable request.

  66. Anonymous

    This is a directive by the company which is delivered by your manager. The company doesn't care what your commute time is so I'm afraid this is not your call. You can certainly speak with your manager and offer a compromise say every other week. But at the end of the day, this is the way you boss wants to run his team

  67. Anonymous

    Just wanted to say that this is not always the case. The company could simply be suggesting it, but some managers feel the need to require it.

  68. Anonymous

    You should diplomatically speak your needs with your new manager.
    If your company is focused on retention and believes staff's input is important, then they will be open to hearing your side of the story. Unless there are clear indications of the reasons why they need you to be in the office, the majority of work can be done remotely. We saw the evidence of this during Covid and businesses and organizations continued to function as needed.

  69. Anonymous

    People were not remote before the pandemic and there was simply no work-life balance. You'd spend hours commuting, and that was part of the job. You wake up, get ready for work, commute to work, maybe attend an "optional" (not to mention unpaid) after-work gathering, commute home, get home late, get ready for bed, sleep, and repeat. What kind of disgusting life is that? Sorry that the rest of us want to actually live our lives, not just live to work and work to live.

    You said it yourself, "we made it work during the pandemic," so it really shouldn't take a genius to understand the fact that employees were just as productive, if not more, working remotely. If employees are still performing to expectations, why does it matter if they physically go to the office or not?

    What irks ME is that people think that just because things were "always" done a certain way that it has to CONTINUE being done that way. Like no, as a society, we should ALWAYS be aiming to improve, especially in the quality of life department.

    Just because *you* don't *mind* commuting does not give you the right to speak for anyone else.

  70. Anonymous

    I feel for you. I was is the exact same situation (exact same commute) recently. My personal feeling is these return to work requirements are really regressive, but they are what they are. For me, it was a case of going back to my employer to find a win-win agreement or leaving. Happily, I was able to negotiate going in once a fortnight, rather than once a week.

    This might not be an acceptable for you though (my kids are older, I have a partner who can work from home when I can't etc), so I would start by considering what a reasonable compromise would look like for you, then go from there. Don't be afraid to negotiate but be aware they may not agree, and know your next step.

  71. Anonymous

    I feel for you as I have the exact same commute and my office environment is not ideal. My manager has required our department to be in the office 3 days a week while all other departments are only required to be in once a week. It's unfortunately up to the manager and how they choose to run their staff. I'd suggest explaining your situation and trying to negotiate something that will satisfy both your needs and your manager's.

  72. Anonymous

    I'm a big remote work proponent.
    That said, I suggest following your new mgr's ask for awhile before having a conversation.
    That shows your willingness to try that work mode plus you then have more substantive reasons and insight for discussion as to why it works/doesn't work for you, and more ideas sparked for what might work better (perhaps for the entire team).

  73. Evelyn Cruz

    I would let your manager know that you own your work and they should trust you will get it done. If they want updates on a weekly basis you can provide it to them and can rest assure you will ask for assistance if you need it.

  74. Anonymous

    This approach won't work well for the OP. She'll come off as arrogant and this dismissive approach to the once-weekly in office request won't land well.

  75. Maria Porpora

    This seems like a pretty reasonable request. Meeting in person is different than meeting on Zoom, and once a week really isn't much to ask. Micromanagement is telling you how to do your actual work, not asking to meet in person.

  76. Anonymous

    I agree that meeting in person is different than meeting virtually, but how do you explain requiring employees to come into the office...just so that they can meet OTHER employees / clients virtually? Make it make sense, thank you.

  77. Anonymous

    I would go in once a week, at least for a while, to connect with the new boss and get them comfortable with you. Perhaps get some metrics together regarding productivity on days worked remote vs the one day in office. Then re-negotiate the in-office requirement (once a month? every other week?) after you've made a good working connection with the boss and are armed with metrics on productivity and achievements. I've seen return to office demands precede RIFs and targeted layoffs. Show your flexibility and willingness .. but also get your resume dusted off and reconnect with/continue building your network. Always a good idea to keep your options open and be connecting anyway.

  78. Gerald Combe

    One of the most professional and on point comments.

  79. Melissa McHugh

    Years ago, before I worked remote-only, I was able to negotiate early and extra work from home days by providing a report of completed tasks in the office vs at-home. It helped my manager understand why I was requesting the extra days and what output the company would receive in return.

  80. Susan Heidi Wolman

    Perhaps your new manager wants to get to know you. I would do as asked get better acquainted with your new manager and then ask for the ok’d schedule because that is 3 work hours that they are missing out on

  81. Anonymous

    This. I met my manager and team mates for the first time this week and already our work relationship has improved. It's easier getting information and people have already been forthcoming with information. An "icebreaker" of sorts that did wonders.

  82. Anonymous

    You broke the seal by going in on occasions. Now they know it’s possible for you to make it into the office. IF you must be on site every Friday, be sure to schedule YOUR face to face time with everyone on FRIDAY (this is referring to your statement of meeting “people in person” statement). If they’re brining you in for meetings, hold as many meetings possible that day. You will have to accept that Friday will not be a heavy day for completing tasks due to your meetings. If they’re going to bring you in, you might as well make their day your day.

  83. Lenore Kaibel

    That is a pretty light mandate. Unless you took the job with the understanding it would be fully remote, one day sounds totally reasonable.

  84. Anonymous

    "Losing control of how I work", this right here. I believe, IMO, their ask is very lenient, and you seem to feel that this is 'micromanaging'?? This is their call, on how you respond vs react. The above is a reaction. IMO, you need to allow the new manager to lead and you need to understand how entitled you are coming across. IMO. Communication, professionally, may help all parties to understand.

  85. Anonymous

    The WFH option had been shifting back into the office. So consider yourself lucky, comply with the request and start looking for a new job closer to home.

  86. Anonymous

    Working from home is not a right. It's a benefit and luxury that not many higher paid employees are offered. Be grateful it's only one day in the office for now (I would expect that to change soon).

  87. Anonymous

    LOLLLLL your comment reeks of micromanagement! Sure, you're right - work from home/working remotely is not a right. However, it also costs nothing to be compassionate and understanding. Remote work offers a flexibility that we could never have imagined prior to the pandemic, and it clearly works. Yes, your employees are blessed to have a job with you and your company, but beyond that, please try to remember that they are also people. With lives outside of work. So why RTO? I'd posit that it's because managers are power tripping.

    Instead of falling in line, stand with the people who want improvement to their quality of life. Like c'mon, we only live once. Let's not make work be the majority of our lives.

  88. Anonymous

    Remote work is business as usual in many companies still. It is not a "benefit and luxury" and I know plenty of higher paid employees who work remote. Please tell us, what should we "be grateful" for next? Having our salaries cut in half because companies are within their rights to do so? People like you who hand all your power over and grovel to the Company continuously undermine workers' gains. What are you getting out of this?

  89. Jodi Peters

    The fact that you work from home at all is not typical so much anymore. If they need you then you need to be available, I will think. Or find a different job that suits your schedule better.

  90. Anonymous

    Untrue. There are many organizations who are either fully remote or have staff working remotely. But it is true the RTO mandates are becoming common now but likely not for the reasons you may think. They are cutting jobs to answer to shareholders' demands for profitability, growth is out, profits are in, vanilla CEO's fall in line. RTO mandates and pointing to AI are the two big excuses for letting people go and either not replacing them (RIFs) or hiring cheaper. Yes, play the game to keep your job but there's no need to fawn to these corporations or willing hand them the axe to chop you with.

  91. Michele LaCagnina

    My company mandated a full 5-day return after I was hired at 3 days in + 2 days WFH. No reason was given and naturally, we've seen some resignations. This seems like the sort of things that companies are going to have to learn the hard way. I don't know how realistic it is to try to negotiate at an individual level, unless your company policy is "manger's discretion." Which is the most challenging since it allows for favoritism.

  92. Anonymous

    Unfortunately, in this job market, companies are holding the cards right now. I see HR jobs on LinkedIn with over 1,000 applicants. So, for many, it's go into the office and feed your family, or take a chance in this already-crazy job market.

  93. Anonymous

    I've been contemplating leaving my job primarily because of the commute for mandated in-office days. Outside of idle chit chat, there's no part of my job that can't be done at home and it's been so hard to swallow giving up ~9 hours of my personal time each week sitting in the car for the commute. My recommendation would be to explain the hardship it puts on you - particularly if your mental health is suffering. If there is any sort of wiggle room for you, communicating is going to be key to finding a solution/compromise. For me, there appears to be no wiggle room since I don't live far enough (even though traffic is extremely bad) so I either suck it up or leave.

  94. LORI-ANN BURLINGAME

    A 1:1 with your new manager would give you an opportunity to clarify expectations and to discuss working remotely. (Many people, not you, that work remotely are not always focused on work.)

  95. Anonymous

    Many people in the OFFICE are not always focused on work either. How quickly we shift that blame to those who are home. At the office, people stopped by my desk to talk all the time. They stopped me and chatted on the way to or from the bathroom or when I went to get a drink. I'd see people playing games on their phones and texting or checking FB. Do people REALLY think people in the office work every second they're there?

  96. Anonymous

    Seriously. Pre covid most of my coworkers played ping pong or pool while at the office instead of working.

  97. Anonymous

    So many people in the office waste time and are not focused on work. The amount of blah-blah-blah that went on at my previous office under the guise of "collaboration" was sizeable. The proof is in the productivity. But the return to office mandates have little to nothing to do with productivity; it has to do with profitability by laying off people who cannot or will not return. Fun fact, most of those positions are not being filled or if they are, it's with much lower salaries. The whole people aren't working at home trope is yet another BS smoke screen (like lack of collaboration or AI taking jobs) so corporations can appease stakeholders who want costs (i.e, people) cut. Folks really need to wake up to this stuff. Spending time sniping back and forth about remote work or one day in the office is a distraction from the real problem that we all face.

  98. Anonymous

    It takes me 10 minutes to go to the restroom while at the office because the company I work for decided to put the mens in one wing of the building and the women's in another and I sit closer to the mens than women's.

  99. Anonymous

    THAT is a micromanager way of thinking. Why do you incorrectly assert that remote workers are not always focused? Trust your people.

    I'm 100% less focused on work when I'm in the office - and that's a fact. If I'm at my desk, every so often, someone will walk up to me whether it's to talk about lunch, or if they have a question about something, regardless of whether my calendar is blocked off. With these unscheduled "meetings," I am pulled away from my actual work. This causes delays to our deadlines. And then what? Managers like you will tell me that I need to manage my time better.

    ..Right.

    So please, continue to tell us folks who prefer remote work that we are not focused when we work remotely, instead of admitting that butts in seats only serve to visually appease your assumption that being at the office yields better work.

  100. Anonymous

    I'm not going to tell you that, but what I am going to tell you is that you need to find and work at a company that suits your needs, if that is a deal breaker. Otherwise, the company is within their rights to ask you to return to the office, no matter what their reason.

  101. Anonymous

    Everybody already knows the companies can do what they want. Telling people to just go find another place to work in the current job market is extremely rude and unhelpful. Perhaps simply stop perpetuating a fully BS trope that "Many people .. that work remotely are not always focused on work". It's untrue and just feeds a system where corporations can discard people for any old reason they can make up because it's "within their rights". I don't get it. Why are you promoting these made up tropes about remote workers and doing the company's dirty work? Do you think if you fawn to the companies and undercut others by perpetuating BS your job will be safe? It won't. This is a very "pick me" attitude.

  102. Anonymous

    You are picking a really strange hill to die on... and all these gen z buzzwords are just hurting my ears. Your little tirade on this page is not going to change an entire countries corporate views.

  103. Anonymous

    I'm Gen X, a few years shy of a Boomer. I'm not dying on any hill. I'm commenting just like you. I'm amazed how easily folks like you are willing to bend over and take while throwing other people under the bus. At least you made it clear your motivation is to stereotype and attack the younger generation. Grow up and be a leader not some small, bitter hater stuck in the past.

  104. Anonymous

    Can you please elaborate how asking for all hands to be live for meetings feels micro-managing to you? Are there other things that the manager's asked of you that would be contributing to that feeling? Are they asking you to work more in the office? Your post mentions just being there to be in person at meetings. Are they asking you to explain the minutes of your work day (I had a new C-suite person come in and ask that of me)?

    Like others have said, you should have a 1:1 with your manager to ask about why they feel being in-person is the best course of action for Friday meetings. Try listening to them objectively and acknowledging any sound points they have, then give them your own points as to why you shouldn't have to/would prefer not to be there ALL the time. You said you already do the long commute to work for more social/less professional reasons (you want to get face time with people), maybe you can make your social days the meeting day?

  105. Anonymous

    I think the thing I find saddest is how many people here just fall in line with these things. We all know how this story goes -- first it's one day, then it's ok can you also do it on Wednesdays, and the next thing you know they're wanting you there every day and telling you they simply don't care about your commute or your personal life or your work/life balance. That's the way these ancient-thinking CEOs and managers thing. They can't see beyond the hole they've dug around themselves and the "well, we always did it that way before."

    There are better ways.

    We don't all have to be in the office despite their need to breathe down our necks. And many people work better from home, are happier because they have a better work/life balance, and so do better work. Period. Why do we cave to these demands and just accept them? They'll move by inches until they have you there every day. And then they'll start demanding OT.

    It's the same old story. When do we put our feet down and demand better?

  106. Anonymous

    I think being self employed and consulting is best when you work better from home. That is your "foot-down" solution.

  107. Deb Strickland

    You can't "put your foot down" unless you're ok with being fired. Employers don't need a valid reason, "just because" is sufficient. I too had a manager change and it went from relaxed and out of your face, to very controlling (even to what we can and cannot say in meetings). He "laid me off" a month ago.

  108. Anonymous

    And if the demands increase, and you are not comfortable with them, you're free to leave and find a position that better suits your needs.

  109. Anonymous

    With hundreds applying to every opening, companies can just let you go very easily. So demanding your desires be met is ridiculous. If the company wants you in the office...you get in the office.

  110. Anonymous

    "When do we put our feet down and demand better?" When you own your own company and you set your own rules.

  111. Anonymous

    different people have different ideas about what is “better”.

  112. Anonymous

    if you do that these days you'll likely just be shown the door. Most folks don't have the luxury of standing on ceremony. We need full times incomes and health insurance to provide for our families.

  113. Anonymous

    While I understand your concern, discussing your position and where it's going could go a long way to assuage concerns about expectations. If the conversation does not go in the employee's favor, as you are describing here, they have the option of considering what works (or not) for them, i.e. looking for a new position if necessary. Getting into a "us v. them" mentality like you have here does you (and the employee) no good- they'll go into this with hostility and resentment.

  114. Anonymous

    Some physical sites might not be able to support a full-time RTO policy, in light of hiring done during the pandemic. 5 days a week in office is symptomatic of a control culture which masquerades as a collabrative culture. Big companies need to also justify their corporate leases.

  115. Michele LaCagnina

    Exactly. The collaboration justification is laughable considering most of us in my office spend the day on calls with folks outside our time zones.

  116. Anonymous

    If she already goes in when she wants, going in one specified day is not a big deal.
    She can always start looking for another job in the meantime because the commute is not changing unless she moves.

  117. Anonymous

    So how would you feel if she just stops going to the office when she currently "wants," and only goes in on the one mandated day weekly? I'd bet you'd have something new to say.

  118. Anonymous

    If she goes in the one mandated day there is nothing left to say because she’s doing what is required. The other days are not.

  119. Anonymous

    THIS^ The OP doesn't seem as mad at having to go into the office once per week, she seems mad that she doesn't get to pick the day, and views that as micromanagement, which, alone, is not. I perceived a bit of petulance in the original post. Even if you own your own business, you will not be able to work whenever and wherever you want. There will always be outside forces beyond your control.

  120. Susan Myers

    So many are out of work. Finding a job is much more stressful then a long commute. I am very well qualified and have a great work history and great experiences but looked for work for 1 1/2 years until I found the job that I am in now. I was finalist in many roles that I applied for.

    Consider very carefully your next moves. The emotional turmoil in not working was terrible. Unless you are in a position that you don't need a paycheck and have saved plenty of money along the way.

    Good luck!!

  121. Paula McLeod, Executive Coach

    Perhaps consider another perspective. Your NEW manager may have been given the mandate to improve things in your team . He/she may not be planning to continue the status quo, but instead to evaluate the work product, productivity, and flow, and also consider how to manage the team assets in the best way possible. So whatever you consider your work to be now may change. Telling your manager you know your ( current)job and how to do the ( current) work may leave you stuck without room for growth or left out of the newly constituted team. Which may be something you choose as time passes and things are revealed. Suck it up in the short term, take the invitation to get to know the manager and have them get to know that you are a competent and responsible team member. And on days when you aren’t at the office, over communicate what you’ve been doing so they won’t have to reach out to manage you.

  122. Anonymous

    If you have a mental health disability you can file for a virtual exception as an accommodation. This is a protected process as of 1980

    per the ADA.

  123. Rose Bush

    More closer. It’s time.

  124. Anonymous

    Stupid comment. Don't post next time.

  125. Anonymous

    What do you find "stupid" about the comment?

  126. Anonymous

    Because have you seen the housing market!? Mortgage rates? Lmao, backing the first person up - your comment is cringe.

  127. Anonymous

    Wow, I think you also got a lot of participation trophies..............

  128. Anonymous

    I have a feeling my comment will be unpopular. I have been in the workforce for 35+ years and always went in to work. Working from home during COVID was needed. But now its not. Time to get back to normal, just think of all the other industries being hurt because of this.

  129. Anonymous

    Why can't telecommuting be the new "normal"? Maybe it's time to get with the times, and not simply revert to what you "grew up with." Don't ignore the new technological advancement we as a society have accomplished.

  130. Anonymous

    Found the boomer.

  131. Anonymous

    I have to agree with Anonymous.
    If you commutimg back and forth to work was a non issue in length because you did it before than what's the problem? I know my opinion is not popular as well, but as we exit the extremes of the pandemic as thyey once were, demannding a work from home status just because you had to in a crisis, got used to it and no longer like that they are no longer offering that option is called Lazy. In my office, four days a week is now MANDITORY. Its called get over Covid, stop acting self entitled and SHOW UP. Even Jamie Dimon concurs with me on this practice. Human interactions are called BUSINESS

  132. Janet Parkhurst

    So agree, anonymous. Good business succeeds only with good PEOPLE supporting it! And that means "in person."

  133. Anonymous

    I'd start looking for a new rolel but also talk to the new manager. Easier to find one when you have one then to be under the gun with no job

    It's easy to say move but not easy to do. The cost of housing is rising but wages are not. Whose to say you relocate and they don't do layoffs in the near future after that. I belive some return to office mandates are a way to create natural attrition without doing layoffs.

    I worked at one company that previously we only had to come in for moments that mattered when the economy turned despite limited seating availability they moved to we need people to come in. Despite most meetings being spread out over a multibuilding multi location campus and regions resulting in a bunch of in person folks sitting on Teams calls with headsets at desk or booths.

    Another role I had for years the manager blamed the director on the in office 3 days a week mandate. Well the manager went on maternity leave. My kid got sick and I apologized to director but worked from home one week during managers leave. Director was like I don't care where you work from. I live out of state and as long as your job is done I'm fine.

  134. Anonymous

    Some companies have instituted a full-time return-to-office mandate—employees who couldn't meet that have been laid off. Long before COVID, companies that were known for embracing telecommuting would suddenly mandate a return to the office and lay off those who couldn't return.

    Consider your position, pay, benefits, time off, career path, and the cost of living in the city you live in. Ask whether you could easily duplicate your job. Despite all the social media mavens telling you how easy it is to find a job or manifest a large salary increase, there are a lot of people who spend a long time looking for that next job.

    Maybe you could get to know your supervisor better and show the value that you bring to the table. Then in a couple of months ask about the possibility of coming into the office every other week or even once a month.

  135. Anonymous

    "Some companies have instituted a full-time return-to-office mandate—employees who couldn't meet that have been laid off."

    If the nearest site was 250km away, would an employee effectively have a case for constructive dismissal? The employer failed to consider practical aspects of the current work paradigm. Also, the pandemic is not over - statistical data is published less frequently, but people are still getting sick. Additionally, there will be another outbreak soon enough. RTO mandates are based on the high cost of corporate leases (companies cannot operate with half-empty buildings) and also control, rather than collaboration.

  136. Mary Pool

    I don't think there is a case for constructive dismissal. Where a person lives in relationship to their work is a personal decision, not a business decision. Constructive dismissals are based upon the actions of the employer, not the employee. In the case you mentioned, it is the employees choice to live 250km from work; the employer is not mandating they do so.

  137. Anonymous

    It was the employer's choice to hire said employee, knowing where they lived. I can't imagine that didn't come up in conversation at any point during the interview. So while the employer didn't mandate that they live 250km away, they accepted it when they hired the employee, so why is it all of a sudden not okay and requires dismissal?

  138. Anonymous

    That's an excellent question, especially one that should be asked if an employer hired someone to be remote and knew they were hundreds of miles/km away from the office and would likely never be able to come in regularly.

    I think one of the things we probably all screwed up a bit was getting it in writing that there would be no RTO when we got hired (well, those who got hired during the pandemic).

    Personally, I think these RTOs across the board are a terrible idea.

  139. MidwestMaven456

    I am all for the tele-commute. It saves time, energy, money and natural resources. However, they are asking for 1 day a week for you to meet with team members. That supports growth, mentoring and collaboration. That is not losing control or being micromanaged but being involved.

    Just a quick question, did you have the long commute when you took the job or was it all virtual? I'd try the one day out for a few weeks BEFORE I went to the manager. Then you can say you gave it a good try but it's not working well for you.

  140. Mary Pool

    Asking you to come in one day a week is not unreasonable. Try ebooks, they make commutes a pleasure! I wonder if your main issue is being micromanaged and being asked to come in one day a week is simply the frosting on the cake. Step back and evaluate what the real issues are and then decide your next steps. Good luck!

  141. Susan Grant-Suttie

    Do you have a contract? Is there anywhere outlined on your job description as to how often you are in the office or online? Without this, administration can change your hours as they see. Also, after a thought of the pros and cons as to having a conversation about this issue, then set up an appointment to solidify your locations and hours and/or compensation for travel. And BTW - I traveled for an hour to work every day and in the winter 90 minutes, each way. I know traveling can be horrid, but yet those ebooks / postcasts are incredible!

  142. Jennifer

    If you are on contract, you state may not allow the company to specify when and where you work. It may be worth checking on your state's contracting laws to determine if that's the case (BOLI or the like). That being said, consider if your company pays you enough to make the trip. If not, a request for a raise may be in order. ;-)

  143. Rosa Goes

    If it's not in writing that you work from home, then you'll have to comply. Keep in mind she is your new manager and may not know how well you work from home and may be the reason you feel like you're losing control. As others mentioned, 1x a week is not too much to ask.

  144. Karen P. Storey

    MOVE CLOSER TO WORK - OR START LOOKING FOR A BETTER OPPORTUNITY! YOU CAN DO IT!

    NOT TO DECIDE IS TO DECIDE.

    KAREN P. STOREY, CPC, CTS

  145. Anonymous

    TURN OFF ALL CAPS. YOU CAN DO IT!

  146. GirlBossanova161544

    Not sure why you’re yelling. Or feel the need to sign a post with your post nominals. ?

  147. Janet Parkhurst

    I think my response is going to be unpopular, but here goes, anyway. I think we've all gotten spoiled by the "work-at-home" allowance. It was an absolute necessity during the Pandemic and, before that, a luxury reserved for solely for company owners or big wigs. But now, we practically consider it to be a personal right to work from home. If you're a contractor or freelancer, great! Fine. (But even then, you might occasionally be called in for a meeting or a special project, and should be willing to do that.) However, if you're a team member; read, employee, for a company, get your butt in there. There's no team if no one is present. Or if only partial or sporadic attendance is the norm. If I owned a business, old-fashioned or not, I'd want everybody present. Flexible schedules? Sure, somewhat. But, in order to have a team, a company needs actual human beings present. How else can you bounce ideas off of each other? Or get feedback or answers to a problem? An idea or snafu can't always wait for a "scheduled" ZOOM meeting. I am basically a freelancer, but love contracting onsite because I get to meet (and, hopefully, get to know) new people and get out of my own contrived environment. There are so many BONUSES to being present at a company. Believe me, I hate long commutes, too, so I understand your concern about that. That said, even if an opportunity specifies "remote," I don't believe it. I know, at some point, I'm going to be asked to come into the office. So, if it's too far away, I simply decline. As one poster advised, either move closer or find a new company. I so agree with her. You need to be a part of the Big Picture. Or not.

  148. Melissa McHugh

    I don't know necessarily disagree with some of your points. But I'm in a field that has allowed partial or full remote work since I entered it. I started working 100% remotely 7 or 8 years ago and I am not a big wig or a business owner.
    With that being said, I do consider my ability to work remote a luxury versus something I'm entitled to. But that also means that, when I was job searching a few years ago, I only looked at companies whose culture was remote first. So our values align.
    I suspect there are other things going on in addition to the new mandate that make the OP feel micromanaged.

  149. Anonymous

    If no one is there, there is no team.

    So when no one was in the office during Covid nothing got done??? I beg to differ. I am so sick and tired of companies brushing aside contributions made during by remote workers during Covid. Remote workers kept companies afloat during that time. Let's not pretend that wasn't the case. I currently work on a team that is mostly remote (one or two elect to come into the office occasionally but the rest are remote) and our contributions are huge. We even got extra bonuses because of our our efficiency and delivery on a seemingly impossible project. We were able to communicate and bounce ideas off of each other quite well, so that sounds like nothing but an excuse to me. Please don't think you are speaking for all of us because you certainly aren't speaking to my experiences.

    Meanwhile dear OP, you are the only one that can decide if her request is reasonable and if not are you in a position to look for a more accommodating position?

  150. Rose Bush

    No No, remote workers did not keep the business going. They actually made it harder on the WIP people. I agree with you they got the bear minimum done to keep business functioning, but never thrive.

    I hope the OP person is able to talk to her manager/boss and figure out a happy medium.

  151. Anonymous

    Unpopular and incorrect. The world is always changing. A spontaneous discussion or meeting does not need a scheduled zoom meeting. I have unscheduled Teams meetings several times a day. My boss just hits the call button on Teams. Because I’m part of the Big Picture and they want my knowledge and expertise. Technology can connect us if used properly. If you can do your job effectively and remotely I don’t see why not. All these tough love sort of posts seem mean spirited and jealous. I embrace change, evolution and growth. I am older. I did not have this advantage when I was young and raising children. Look within your soul.

  152. Rosa Goes

    I think the OP is asking for advice about the manager's in person meeting on Fridays. I don't see your post giving such advice, only calling the rest of us mean spirited, jealous which we are not.

  153. Anonymous

    You would have to read the entire thread to see the advice. You are focused on yourself and are taking my perceptions personally. There is no universal opinion on this thread so there is no "the rest of us." There have been some unfounded harsh opinions that I disagree with. My advice is/was start a dialogue with the new manager, ask the purpose, advocate for yourself if you believe the purpose can be accomplished remotely. You don't have to just accept whatever an employer desires. I don't see the post as asking if this is an constructive discharge situation. It seems a foregone conclusion on many of these posts that there will be no give and take on the part of the new manager. OP may be surprised. But you will never know unless you start the dialogue and advocate for yourself. Ultimately a new job may be in order. Its an opportunity. My wish for you and all here is that you grow wiser with age and keep an open mind. A Change Is Gonna Come ~Sam Cooke.

  154. Anonymous

    The “pots that seem mean spirited and jealous” are nothing of the kind. I am fortunate enough to work from home 3 days a week and frankly, if I contact my boss on the two mornings I should be in the office to say I’m staying home, then the response is okay. The feedback is more in line with you must do what your employer asks you to do, even if you don’t like it. Your employer also is not concerned with your commute. That is on the employee. Where I work, we have a lot of people who drive 75 miles each way to work because they want to live outside the city so it is worth it to them. Five days a week because they are essential. I am older too and will be the first to say, if you don’t like the work conditions (i.e., come to the office on Friday) then find another job and move. Claiming “I have chid ren” is a horrible thing to say to try and convince your employer to let you work remote full time. NO parent who has young children at home is attentive to the job during busines hours. Children take time. We have an employee who was told you must be in the office 5 days a week. Why? Because she was watching her three young grandchildren while her daughter worked and shockingly, she was very rarely available when she was needed - and she was posting her days on facebook during office hours.

  155. Anonymous

    The OP never mentions children.

  156. Anonymous

    I am equally sure some, not all, are mean spirited and jealous. Look at your language “one must comply”. Black and white thinking. What we can do is raise issues, communicate, advocate for change. I hope for you that one day you may learn to have a more open mind and grow.

  157. Anonymous

    ?

  158. Anonymous

    Are you suggesting that minority demographics (women, POC, those with disabilities) "must comply" with however the law was written? Clearly, that is not the case.

    Don't ask the working class to comply as a way to control them.

  159. Gail Buckley Crane

    Are you kidding me?

    #1 "...I work from home most of the time and only go to the office on random days when I want to meet people in person... (Setting your own on-site in-office time AKA EMPLOYEE CONVENIENCE ) Doesn't sound like micro-management;

    Because I have a long commute, 1.5 hours each way.to work face to face with people in person, in real timeface meeting once a week is micromaging? Nothing in your rant shows any consideration for the business processes of the organization that pays your salary.

  160. Anonymous

    "Since when" - lol. Maybe not yet, or ever, if you keep supporting the narrative that employers should have all the power.

    "Since when?" Before 1920, women did not have the right to vote. They do now.

    "Since when?" Before 1954, black people were not allowed to go to school. They do now.

    "Since when?" Before 1968, handicap people did not have any considerations. They do now.

    We have made changes for the better.]

    Since when did we learn that we can't question the ways that things have been run?

    To answer your "I would like to get my benefits for free and a raise based on what I think is appropriate" - if you never ask, you'll never receive. Instead of bringing others down for what they get based on what you don't, learn from them so that you, too, can enjoy the same.

    So sit down, with your since when. Thank you!

  161. Anonymous

    Using social issues as examples of change in this case doesn't come close to making sense. It's economics. Working for yourself is your answer to change of control. It's a trade off.

  162. Anonymous

    Economic reasons are at the root of most profound social change. Collaboration rather than control should be the goal. It makes perfect sense. Open your mind. Widen your vision.

  163. Anonymous

    What are you even saying? If all you want to say is that people should just work for themselves if they want control, just say that! Don't beat around the bush and suggest that the changes made for the social issues mentioned above are not valid examples for making a change in the workplace.

    You wanna talk economics? Okay.

    The FLSA mandated a federal minimum wage of $0.25 per hour in 1938. Today, the federal minimum wage is $7.25, with most states having their own minimums. These increases were made to be tied in with the rate of inflation, and to help boost consumer spending and the economy overall.

    Are you suggesting that we should revert to the 1938 mandate of $0.25 per hour? Surely we increase minimum wage over the years so that people are able to better live their lives?

    If you're not ready for a conversation about making changes to improve quality of life collectively as a society, that's okay. You can continue to live life and make decisions based on what make sense to you :)

    Also, economics is very broad - if you're going to throw that topic around, at least specify what you're talking about.

  164. Janet Parkhurst

    I think we're mostly forgetting that when you work for another person, you have to respect their rules. It is what it is. I'm not against making suggestions or advocating for change in the workplace. Every workplace has a maverick or two (if they're lucky!). But, generally speaking, I think "demanding" to work remotely is much like the child who doesn't want to go to school. Remember THOSE days? And I really don't believe "everyone" would like to work from home five days a week. There are some of us who truly like to work as an opportunity to get OUT OF THE HOUSE. It can be good medicine! Finally, I think a lot of us are forgetting, if we want to make our own rules and work by our own preferences, there's always the option of working for OURSELVES. No one is forcing us to be employees.

  165. Anonymous

    I don't think that anyone is "demanding" to work from home, which is why many people take issue with the shitty "advice" of working for ourselves if we wanted more control. People are just asking for consistent flexibility to work remotely, since it has been proven that people are able to work just as well as they do while in office.

    To be the counter of your child not wanting to go to school analogy - mandating that an employee goes to the office and punishing them if they don't (even though they are doing their job and submitting deliverables on time) is very much like the teacher giving a student a red mark because the student doesn't participate in class (even if they score high on exams). Not everyone works the same way or has the same experiences, so as a society we should learn to be accommodating, especially if the expectations for the work to be completed are met.

    Not to mention - remember SNOW days? Where schools closed due to inclement weather, and kids just got a snow day to play in the snow or had a free day? No, instead, we have students and teachers logging in virtually.

    Sheep are happy to fall in line, and I think some people are just tired of being sheep.

  166. Rose Bush

    Actually, it has been proven that working from home is not productive. There is always one person that talks to much and them, being kept away makes them more productive.

    Working together sparks the group thinking, and everyone putting there ideas together makes a group better. I’m so sorry, one person doesn’t have it all.

    And if someone is tired of being a sheep, they run their own business from home. If you work for someone-you a sheep.

  167. Anonymous

    Please provide references or support for your statement: Actually, it has been proven that working from home is not productive. I am unable to locate factual data or a scientific study to support your broad generalized statement. Media articles and opinions are not statements of fact. Making up false facts is not admirable behavior.

  168. Anonymous

    Put proof where your pudding is. What studies have shown that remote workers are less efficient? Where. Cite your sources and make sure it's from a peer reviewed paper.

  169. Anonymous

    Meanwhile I'm going to do exactly what you asked but can't do: A study by Standford of 16,000 workers over 9 months found that working from home increase productivity by 13%. This increase in performance was due to more calls per minute attributed to a quieter more convenient working environment and working more minutes per shift because of fewer breaks and sick days.

    In this same study workers also reported improved work satisfaction, and attrition rates were cut by 50%. 77% of those who work remotely at least a few times per month show increased productivity, with 30% doing more work in less time and 24% doing more work in the same period of time according to a survey by ConnectSolutions. Great Place to Work compared employee productivity from March to August of 2020, the first six months of stay-at-home orders, to the same six-month stretch in 2019. Remote work productivity was stable or increased when working remotely from home, according to a 2-year study of 800,000 employees. In 2020 Prodoscore reported an increase in productivity by 47% since March of 2020 (compared to March and April 2019), A survey from March this 2020 by Airtasker shows work from home employees spent less time avoiding work (15% difference), spent 1.4 more days working each month, and took more breaks.

    Workers in a home environment report they are less distracted by co-workers, spending 30 minutes less talking about non-work topics, and spend 7% less time talking to management. So I call your bs. Show me a recent study that shows that office work is anything other than a sad ploy by lonely managers to justify not having a life outside their work.

  170. Anonymous

    If you even bothered to read the article provided by J McGovern, you'd see that references/support are listed. Since you were unable to follow the link yourself and read it, I pulled the sources for you.

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/worklab/work-trend-index/hybrid-work-is-just-work/

    https://futureforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Future-Forum-Pulse-Report-Fall-2022.pdf

    https://www.greatplacetowork.com/resources/blog/remote-work-productivity-study-finds-surprising-reality-2-year-study

    Great Place to Work is a company that quite literally runs its business on conducting surveys, so it's not just a "media article."

    If these do not "count" perhaps you can provide some references or data to show that working remotely causes less productivity? Please be kindly reminded that personal opinions and opinions of leaders in media articles are not statements of facts!

    Can't wait to see what you share. Thank you!

  171. Anonymous

    If you even bothered to read, you would realize my post asking for references was posted prior to McGovern’s. I am challenging the premise that working from is not productive. Thanks for the media articles which are not studies themselves.

  172. Anonymous

    Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize Microsoft or Great Place to Work were media outlets!

    Those are clearly not media articles - these are reports of findings from studies. Anyone who can breathe can determine that.

    People like you will always find something to complain about , and will never admit when they are wrong. If you simply don't want to actually accept it, just say so. But remember, making up false facts is not admirable behavior. Karen. :)

  173. J McGovern

    This is not true. Several studies show that employees who work from home are not only more productive, they are happier, which of course, increases their productivity.
    This article points to many of those studies. It's managers who think their employees are not productive simply because they can't see them. But just because you work remotely doesn't mean you don't collaborate, talk to other people, etc. It just happens more efficiently.
    I wish people would get over the idea that working remotely means people are tending to personal business all the time. Have people in the office never shopped online during work? Chatted with coworkers about last night's basketball game just a little too long? Got sucked in by a coworker who has to tell you a 10-minute story of why he was late?
    It's beyond time to rethink the way we work.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/glebtsipursky/2022/11/03/workers-are-less-productive-working-remotely-at-least-thats-what-their-bosses-think/?sh=264bf81d286a

  174. Rose Bush

    Yes, there is more proving in favor, because many don’t want to loose the pajama stay at home vibe.

    But,..they make the people’s life that work in person a living hell. It’s always about THEM, their schedule. They are busy on a single project. I’m sure they are doing a great job. Yes-ONE!!! PROJECT l!!! Don’t worry about the other 3 I had to pick up.

    But enough about my rant-we are very off topic from the original post.

  175. Anonymous

    This is such BS. Sounds like you're jealous of those who work from home. I'm involved in multiples projects at my work place and even more involved now that we meet on Teams or Zoom.

  176. Anonymous

    Sounds like you have a problem either delegating or saying no - also things that the current generation learned to do, and perhaps things you should consider learning to do too. Just because you refuse to embrace forward thinking doesn't mean the rest of us should too. If you want to live in the past, please, stay there by yourself - don't drag the rest of us down.

  177. Anonymous

    Studies have shown quite the opposite. Many people who work from home are MORE productive. I know that I've been much more productive and more involved since going home from the office over 4 years ago. And studies show many people are in the same boat.

  178. Anonymous

    Can you elaborate on "[t]here is always one person that talks to much and them, being kept away makes them more productive"?

    I am willing to put my life on the line that in the office, I am 100% more likely to be pulled into a useless conversation about someone's weekend plans, or about someone's kid's talent show, thus wasting valuable work time. Being kept away from these people (aka working away from them, remotely) would allow me to be more productive ;)

    Group think is the complete opposite of what we want. Perhaps you need to re-educate yourself on what group think is, because it definitely does not mean what you think it means. Groupthink is what we OVERCOME not aim towards.

    Groupthink is the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility. DISCOURAGES.

    Why would we want to discourage creativity or individual responsibility? Maybe that's what YOU want - maybe YOU want to stop people from growing so they stuck exactly where they are. That's wrong, and shows everyone exactly who you are. I'm so sorry, you should not be in HR or People Management.

    Sheep are people who are too easily influenced or led. Just because you work for someone does not make you a sheep. The word you're looking for is "cog." Please educate yourself before spewing the hatred you do. So yes, people are tired of being sheep, being herded towards a singular idea that employees have no rights. Even worker ants can overthrow their queen.

  179. Janet Parkhurst

    Gee... you've totally ripped apart the concept of "teamwork." Remember the coin, "There is no 'I' in teamwork?" I think that's the trouble. Too many of us are thinking only of ourselves and not successful outcomes bred of group contribution. We must all learn to work together. The pandemic has truly taught some of us NOTHING. Forced separation nearly destroyed some creative minds. Nothing is achieved solely as an individual and we all need feedback--which is the purpose of "group think." Repression of individuality is NOT. I think you've been overly harsh with this poster, asking her to be more "educated." We all have a right to our opinions and we've all had different experiences. Let up a bit, will you please?

  180. Anonymous

    "Groupthink is the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility. DISCOURAGES."

    That is not the same as teamwork. Teamwork can be achieved whether it's in person or remotely. Being part of a team and holding your own/helping others also on the team does not require physically being next to each other. Teamwork in a restaurant kitchen is not the same as teamwork for working on a presentation.

    By that logic, you're basically saying that someone who was hired remotely is never exhibiting team behavior just because they do not physically go to an office. So, are you also saying that the company hired said remote person just to set them up for failure?

    What about fully remote companies - the ones that don't even have an office at all? Are you saying that the employees in those companies do not have teamwork or do not work together? Surely they do, if they are successful?

    Teamwork 100% makes the dream work, but teamwork is a state of mind, and is not defined by an individual's location.

  181. Janet Parkhurst

    Hi Rose,

    So agree with you! Working from home is NOT for everyone! It takes a real focus and an ironclad discipline to be able to pull it off and be fully productive!. I worked for a company that had 80% remote workers--and most of them could not be trusted with the responsibility to discipline themselves to NOT succumb to the temptation to "throw in a laundry" or "tackle dirty dishes" during work hours. Or pick up a child from an after-school activity (without prior approval from boss to do so.) Even I was guilty for baking a batch of brownies once and "throwing them in the oven for a bit" when the company I worked from lost the office temporarily due to renovations of the building it was housed in. I think "home" just has too many domestic distractions beckoning to us. But the worst thing I ever heard (from my boss) was that she knew a key employee was in a retail store (and NOT on her lunch hour) when they had a telephone "conference" and NOT in her home office. Of course, now that we all have cell phones, we can talk from just about anywhere. But, the big thing that really peeves me is the lack of professionalism I've witnessed from those either working from home as remote employees or as business owners. This manifests in barking dogs, screaming babies and kids, or a blaring TV in the background. I, personally, won't do business with anyone who has these obvious distractions going on.

  182. Anonymous

    Yes, my dogs sometimes bark. When I was at the office, employees shouted back and forth, sometimes came to my desk just to talk, stopped me to talk in the halls, chatted with others in our department (loudly). Guess what is less distracting? Yup, my dogs.

    The company I work for is mostly remote and most of us get our work done with no issues. I think you're making a lot of assumptions because YOU think everyone works like you do. Guess what? We don't. I'm sorry you lack the discipline to work from home, but many of us don't and are super over this boomer attitude that working in a building makes you a better worker.

  183. Janet Parkhurst

    Dear Anonymous,

    I can see some of your points. But my "shitty advice" about working for oneself was not "advice;" it was merely presented as an OPTION. I've done both, so I can attest to the pros and cons of BOTH. As for snow days, sure! But that's comparing apples to oranges, where schools are closed for student SAFETY, not a wish to stay at home. Again, if someone is tired of feeling like a "sheep," sure... try to affect some change at your workplace. I'm all for that. But truly, if you work for yourself, the only rules you need follow are your own. And NO ONE can argue with that.

  184. Anonymous

    wow, judgmental much?

  185. Janet Parkhurst

    99% of life is just showing up. Woody Allen

  186. Anonymous

    Yeah Woody Allen is not someone whose philosophies, morals or behavior are to be admired. Hide your underage daughters!

  187. Janet Parkhurst

    Yes, you're right. I took a risk posting this, knowing who he is and his despicable behavior. But, truth be told, I believe in his quote. (Actually, I saw the quote first and decided I'd better look up who the author was before posting it--just to give proper credit.) Anyway, for this whole scenario, I thought it was one of the few things about him deemed "appropriate."

  188. Marissa Coyne

    I do not wish I could work from home 5 days a week.

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