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Is anyone else who is a hiring manager experiencing a dearth of quality candidates?

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Anonymous

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Is anyone else who is a hiring manager experiencing a dearth of quality candidates? Ive hiring for an open admin position and I'm getting bottom of the barrel candidates. One promising candidate showed up for the interview dressed like she was running errands at the supermarket (and even carried a plastic shopping bag). Another candidate during a prescreening call asked if I ran background checks and when I replied yes he said "oh damn" and told me the investigator would have a hard time verifying his last employer as he had worked "under the table." He then asked what kind of drugs are we looking for in our drug screening test. Another candidate when asked about her Excel skills stated her boyfriend is good with Excel and she could always pick his brain. Finally there was the candidate who during the on-camera Zoom interview got up and left the camera view so that I was left talking to an empty chair. When show returned with no explanation as to why she had suddenly gotten up and left, she then panned the camera to reveal her very filthy bedroom with soiled bedsheets. I was completely aghast. Would you hire a candidate who had the skills you sought (including nice personality) but showed up for the interview dressed very casually (not even business casual)?

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  1. Stacey K

    Simply no. Things may have gotten more relaxed during the pandemic but there still is a sense of business etiquette and decorum. If they are using that bad of judgement during an interview than that is a good harbinger of things to come and how they may react on the job.

  2. Anonymous

    Thanks greatly appreciate your response.

  3. Anonymous

    The last HR rep I talked to advised me to dress in business casual to the interview - which was a no brainer for me but perhaps she’s had trouble with other candidates? (This was for a mid-career position.)

  4. Anonymous

    No, I wouldn't. We interviewed for a catering manager last week and planned a skills test. One of them showed up with no chef's whites, no ingredients and no explanation. We just sent her home. Maybe some people have forgotten professionalism during the pandemic?

  5. Anonymous

    The position of catering manager typically denotes a front of the house position. Did anyone give the interviewee any information such as ' bring your own spices and uniform'? Just so you know- when a chef is invited to a skill test, it is on the company to provide uniforms and all ingredients- that is pretty standard. I say this from experience. I'm an executive chef and I've been working in the hospitality industry for 22 years. Everywhere from catering companies, private country clubs, corporate dining, non profit, flagship restaurants and hotels which do catering, banquets, typically at least 2 restaurants)
    I think if you provide your interviewees with direct information you will get better result. I would be shocked if I went to a skill test and found out I was expected to provide my own uniform and spices.

  6. Lisa Marie

    Exactly my thoughts as well.

    A catering manager doesn't cook. Unless that company is confused and uses the wrong job title for the position.

    Also, ANY REPUTABLE company who invites a chef or cook to demonstrate their cooking skills IS SUPPOSED TO provide ALL ingredients. No exceptions.

    That employer is sketchy to me.

  7. Anonymous

    The ad is written correctly and clearly sets forth the requisite skills.

  8. Cyndi Rosenblatt

    If you've had the job description checked by someone outside your industry, you're clear about the salary range, and clear (+ reasonable) on the skill expectations, try offering an incentive/finder's fee for current employees who refer a successful candidate. Those usually require that the new employee stay some minimum amount of time. Current staff know the culture and likely know a bit more about the job than what's stated in the job description, so are often a good resource.

  9. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Just like a "beach body" is any body that's on the beach, "work clothes" are any clothes that you wear while working. "Business casual" is whatever you wear to conduct business in. "Professional attire" is whatever you wear while acting in your capacity as a professional in your industry.

    Call me crazy but I don't think appearance has anything to do with how well somebody does their job. If I were blind, it literally wouldn't make a difference what they were wearing. When the resume, application, cover letter etc. are all up to my standards enough to schedule an interview, why should their outfit negate all of those ACTUALLY PROFESSIONAL qualities? It's the same person whether they're in a suit or sweatpants.

    If the position is one that requires a certain uniform or has some other functional dress requirement, I would cover that during the interview and make sure they're willing & able to comply with that. Beyond that, judging professionalism and competency based upon appearance is nothing more than a practice of control and micromanagement with no legitimate benefit.

  10. Anonymous

    Disagree completely. There is at most corporate offices a modicum of decorum. By your standards if someone came in with just their bra and panties or boxers, you'd be fine with that? There is something called standards and most seasoned professionals understand and comply with that. Its not micromanagement to expect a candidate to dress appropriately. One must put their best foot forward. Dressing like you're running errands at the supermarket does not convey seriousness about the position or even the image you project.

  11. Anonymous

    THIS. All of these comments demanding that women dress in a very specific way in order to work is EXACTLY why I no longer work in an office.

    When I was getting started in my career, I didn't have the money for "nice" clothes. I shopped in thrift stores and got by with what I had. Unfortunately, I would later realize I was wearing something that was stained, ripped, see-through, or sometimes too short. I was so busy, you know, WORKING, that I didn't have time to properly assess what I was wearing. There was so much pressure to look a certain way, and exceeding amounts of gossip when you didn't.

    My current role is fully remote and I can concentrate 100% of my energy into my work—not my clothes. The time I previously spent perfecting my outfit, hair, and makeup is now devoted to work that actually matters.

    The way we judge women in the workplace based on their appearance is so inappropriate and outdated.

  12. Anonymous

    I hired a person I thought was great but she wanted MY job so she could manage me abd do nothing but get paid.

    Told me I didn't deserve my job because I'm single and she wanted it.

    She was there a week.

  13. Anonymous

    She ended up quitting as she was "more management material" and deserves more. I tried training her but she had no desire to learn anything and kept complaining.

  14. Anonymous

    Why was she hired in the first place?

  15. Anonymous

    To be my assistant. She was told that.

    She was aware but made it clear "that would change" AFTER she was hired (interview was fine, otherwise....)

  16. Anonymous

    WOW

  17. Anonymous

    Lady walks in for interview and was seated when I showed up.

    She got up and had shorts on. Very SHORT shorts at that where the men were staring and whistling. She was in her mid-40s

    Ugh :(

  18. Anonymous

    How very ageist of you.

  19. Anonymous

    Very unprofessional. My colleague told me he interviewed someone who had no shirt on (a man). The candidate was on his phone (Zoom interview) and walked over to the fridge and started drinking milk out of a container during the interview!

  20. Healthcare worker

    So you sent the men who were staring and whistling to HR for training I’m guessing? Sure she wasn’t dressed appropriately but they didn’t behave appropriately. One persons lack of professionalism doesn’t excuse the unprofessional and sexist responses.

  21. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Lol I obviously know what the phrase "beach body" typically refers to, that's why I mentioned it in this discussion. Your personal assessment of someone's physique doesn't change whether they are, in fact, a body on the beach. Similarly, your personal assessment of someone's clothing doesn't change whether they are, in fact, a professional.

    To answer your questions:
    1) I have worked for more than one company, in more than one type of industry & work environment, that did not have a stated dress code for employees.
    2) How I dress when I interview depends on several factors. I don't think I've ever been explicitly instructed on how to dress for any interview I've ever done.
    3) How I dress when I'm representing the company or meeting with clients depends on the circumstances. I've met with clients while wearing a pantsuit and pumps, and I've met with clients while wearing an oversized hoodie and Nike slides. No matter my outfit, my resume looked exactly the same, my 3 degrees didn't evaporate when I showed up in yoga pants, and I was paid for doing my job well.
    4) If employees are dressed for business, to me that means they showed up to work not naked (unless that is the business they are in, of course). I would expect the admin not to show up naked. Clothing does not determine success in the workplace. If it did, companies with dress codes would never give casual dress days.
    5) We are taught to conform to & uphold the status quo. You know, the same one that teaches little girls how distracting their bodies are and how they must keep themselves as covered as possible in order to be taken seriously and shown respect when they grow up.

    I'm not sure how to explain that it's micromanaging to demand that someone be dressed a certain way in order to perform a service that benefits you. As for the candidate described in the OP: did she not apply to the job? Submit her resume? Earn an interview? Show up for the interview? Seems pretty consistent with professionalism to me. Why does the narrative change whether she's carrying a Birkin bag or a plastic bag? Same resume, same skills, same experience, same qualifications, same person.

    Any interview I show up for, I'm dressed for business as long as I'm not naked. I don't get paid to look a certain way, I get paid to do a job that I'm specifically qualified for. My professionalism is demonstrated by my WORK, not my WARDROBE.

  22. Anonymous

    Because packaging is part of the deal. Any marketing expert will tell you that you can have the greatest content but if its I'll packaged you won't bother to give it a second glance. In a corporate setting one should dress accordingly. If you show up dressed like you're going to hit the beach, no one will take you seriously. You can have a million degrees and expert skills but for many it won't matter if you cared zero about your appearance. Now you can argue back and forth all day but it won't change the needle on what most agree is just decorum.

  23. Anonymous

    Oh my.....I am astounded. What is going on out there in the workforce? Is this where we're headed?

    Amazing.

  24. Anonymous

    I feel like it is. I interviewed a lady for a role and when I asked her why she wanted to work here: "my free ride on unemployment ended and I guess I have to do something". Another said she wanted a bank loan for a house and would quit in about 2 weeks.

    It's a joke.

  25. Anonymous

    OMG...how horrible

  26. Anonymous

    Seems like it

  27. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    You’re absolutely right. It is pointless because I know (and you do, too) that clothes don’t make an ounce of difference in the quality of work someone can produce. That’s why dress codes are nothing more than micromanaging employees. I’ve never lost a client, a job, or a paycheck over what I wear when I work.

    Maybe that candidate showing up to the interview in her errands-running clothes WAS her putting in effort… none of us know anything about her other than the fact that she applied for a job, got invited for an interview, and she showed up for it. Sometimes, a little compassion and empathy for the human experience can go a long way.

  28. Anonymous

    You probably need to advertise a higher salary.

  29. Anonymous

    The salary is already high for the position.

  30. Healthcare worker

    Is it? You have said that in response to a couple of posts but haven’t said what the salary is. If it’s already high for the position is that in comparison to current pay grades across industries or just high for your company’s pay scale. Because many companies have kept their pay scales too low for so long and now when they bump up a bit feel like that is way too high, but in actuality it’s not even close to competitive for quality talent in this current market.

  31. Anonymous

    The advertisement for the position is very important. It might be helpful to include clear expectations in the job description. Include the dress code, that background checks will be sought, professional office environment with expert experience in Microsoft programs. The more detail you can give the better.

  32. Anonymous

    I agree. There may also be additional screening steps that could be useful (e.g., a skills test). I imagine that it is frustrating for both the company and applicants to waste time on interviews that aren’t going to be fruitful.

  33. Anonymous

    Thank you!!!! A lot of these job descriptions have a laundry list of expectations that are completely unreasonable for $15/hr. Then companies have the nerve to complain that they can't find anyone.

  34. Anonymous

    Are you hiring for jobs with good pay, benefits, predictable schedules, and protection against entitled customers or clients?

  35. Anonymous

    Good pay and excellent benefits. Unfortunately no one can provide insulation from entitled clients. That was not my query.

  36. Anonymous

    I have to wonder how the job ad is written, where it's been advertised and what the salary is. Sometimes a dearth of candidates or unprofessional candidates are not the problem: the ad, position expectations, and salary are.

  37. Anonymous

    Trust me its not the ad or how it was written. The salary is quite high and expectations are reasonable. Even if that were not the case, does that excuse the poor behavior as outlined in the original post?

  38. Anonymous

    We posted a senior leadership position last year. Completely reasonable expectations for our (admittedly niche) industry, starting salary over $200k. 7 applicants met the basic HR screen (and they scored relevant experience generously). We had to stretch to bring 3 in for initial interviews. We expected closer to 30 reasonably qualified candidates, with a half dozen in initial interviews.

  39. Anonymous

    I've seen entry-level positions requiring 5 years experience and the pay was $15/hr. Seriously who is going to apply for that? Sometimes I wonder if recruiters/HR/Hiring Managers even know what they're doing.

  40. Anonymous

    Based on some of the responses in that his thread and the fairly common experience of being jerked around during the interview process (as a candidate), I’d say that many of them don’t know what they’re doing.

  41. Anonymous

    Re: the dirty bed candidate: I agree, that looks super unprofessional, but I have been stuck working from home and interviewing from home and I sit in my dining area at my kitchen table. I don't have an office or even a usable desk b/c of space issues. And I'm not a tidy person at all. You may not have wanted to see dirty sheets but I don't think, in a covid world, we can expect someone's 'office' to look like what it would look like if it wasn't in their home. Sad but true.

  42. Anonymous

    I don't expect someone's home to resemble the office setup but neither do I expert to see soiled bed sheets, food all over the floor. What ever happened to put your best foot forward?

  43. Anonymous

    you (we all) might be surprised to see how people are living, including our friends and colleagues. Depression means I live in a really dirty house and it makes me sad, which doesn't help the problem. Maybe just be happy you don't suffer like others may. Many of the people on the tv show Hoarders have jobs.

  44. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    They put their best foot forward when they applied for the job and you found them qualified enough to schedule an interview. You're focusing on the wrong things.

  45. Sabine Morrow

    Stop interviewing over zoom. It's that simple. Pick up the phone and make a call. All you need to know are the answers that come over the phone. Or tell candidates they can turn camera off. Now there's an idea! Problem solved.

  46. Anonymous

    Zoom is better because it is the next best thing to interviewing in person. Since the pandemic is still here, Zoom is the best way to go. Never tell someone to “pick up the phone.” It’s condescending. Zoom and Teams are the main way to communicate on this day and age. Most people are used to it by now.

  47. Anonymous

    I am a solid candidate with a huge education and over 20 years in professional positions. the other week I had an interview over Teams and my old laptop couldn't handle it. the lag was too bad and I couldn't hear the interviewer. We had to transition to the phone and it worked. I mean I don't know if I'll get the job or whatever but my laptop and wifi can handle Zoom but not Teams (and I didn't know that 'til we tried it. I tried toubleshooting but couldn't find anyone to help with that). I'd rather be praised for rebounding on the fly with a good attitude than not having a new laptop and crying when things went south. Maybe an old laptop made me look as 'bad' as the woman with the dirty sheets, I can't know but there is truly, honestly, only so much a person can do. I'm willing to take a 34K pay cut--it's not a surprise my laptop is old as s#%(

  48. Anonymous

    I'm experiencing issues trying to find qualified candidates right now, too. I've been hiring for a position for over three months and have only received a handful of resumes with the needed skill set. We finally hired a candidate. He went through four rounds of interviews, accepted and signed the offer, had a background check, received and signed for his laptop and then didn't show up on the first day. He didn't respond to me or my director. When HR finally reached him, he had several excuses that honestly did not make any sense to me. This is a senior manager position that pays very well at a well-known company with great benefits. I was really surprised at the lack of professionalism. We reposted the position about a month ago and have yet to find anyone else with the right qualifications. So, to answer your question - yes, it's really difficult to find quality candidates right now.

  49. Lisa

    Do a check on your benefits and perks.

    It is very possible you're not offering enough for the level of employment.

  50. Anonymous

    4 rounds?!?! What was the position?

  51. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Putting someone through four rounds of interviews is giving them plenty of time to find something else, AND plenty of interview practice while they're at it.

  52. Anonymous

    Stop putting candidates through 4 rounds. That's why you're having trouble finding anyone. Some people have jobs and cannot call out 4 times. 2 at the most should be enough.

  53. Anonymous

    Right, but there are a bunch of others posting replies that they’ve had similar experiences with candidates appearing unprofessional for the interview. I was curious as to whether this was a one-off or a trend and, if a trend, what industries HR is seeing this in. I have not seen it personally.

  54. BeaBoss750792

    During my job search several months ago, I did around a dozen Zoom job interviews. Most of them sent out a pre-brief email with tips for success. If I recall, many of these suggested wearing a Zoom-friendly top (or similar).

    I have to ask—were the expectations for interview attire communicated to the candidates in any way? If a candidate is otherwise qualified, I wouldn’t disqualify them based on casual attire or a messy house.

  55. Anonymous

    You should not have to tell a candidate the appropriate way to dress or to please be mindful as to what background you show when on a Zoom meeting. Our standards have sunk very low.

  56. BeaBoss750792

    It takes 10 seconds of a manager’s time to communicate clear expectations.

    From the description, it sounds like this is an entry-level position where it’s quite possible that candidates haven’t worked in an office setting previously.

  57. Jayne Bennett

    I have always dressed professionally (jacket, scarf, tasteful jewelry) and if the background is not "corporate," I use the feature on the conferencing software to make the background plain or blurred. Being mindful of these sorts of things help in making a positive impression.

  58. Sabine Morrow

    Why is an interview over zoom better than one over the phone? What someone's home looks like or how they look or dress should not come into play when looking for qualified candidates. Zoom has opened the door to discrimination of all kinds. I don't believe photo avatars should be used. If a candidate has the skills and interviews well, you can see them on their first day on the job. What is the point of a zoom call versus a regular phone call? None of what you say determines how someone shows up on the job or how they will perform.

  59. Anonymous

    Agreed. Definitely hold out for quality candidates. Job candidates should have the common sense to put their best foot forward in an interview. This includes dressing appropriately, making sure what is visible behind them via Zoom is tidy, answering questions in an articulate manner, and behaving appropriately. If they do not do this, it demonstrates a lack of good judgment, which you do not want.

  60. Anonymous

    "you should not have to tell"--wrong. Clearly, according to many hiring people posting here, you do. The alternative seems to be not getting candidates to hire. Would you rather be happy or would you rather be right, or whatever that phrase is? It's 2021, the world is still in lockdown, and this is our new normal. If you want interviews go more smoothly you're going to have to change tactics too. I mean you don't HAVE t5o but then you risk not filling positions. So which do you want to do?

  61. Anonymous

    Victim shaming? She put the shorts on….?

  62. Anonymous

    Agree

  63. Marissa Murphy

    Ok I'll jump into this too. I can agree from my years at a call center that qualified people can be hard to find at times. However, I myself have a multitude of skills and strong work ethics that translate so poorly on paper that the only thing people look at me for is more call center work. Maybe the qualified candidates don't look how you expect and you are skipping them over? Just food for thought.

  64. Anonymous

    Thank you. Its getting to the point where I have to overlook and not respond to some of these responses that imply one must overlook poor dress, poor attitude and manners. That I should overlook someone who displays a bed with soiled sheets, food all over the floor and a candidate who gets up and walks away mid-sentence. The standards for some are very low.

  65. Anonymous

    Watch the Pursuit of Happiness and have some compassion. Yes I agree there are certain things within our control that we should be attentive too, but nobody is perfect and stuff happens.

  66. Anonymous

    Not victim shaming. The lady here was no victim. She used poor judgment in wearing shorts to an interview.

  67. Anonymous

    A person wearing inappropriate attire to a job interview is one thing (And possibly an honest mistake: maybe she couldn't afford other clothing, or had no idea the shorts weren't appropriate.)

    HOWEVER, that's the least alarming thing about this post. What kind of work environment allows men to get away with staring and whistling at a woman? Were they reprimanded? This is an utterly toxic and unsafe environment for women. I would never work in a place like this.

    Ultimately, this woman dodged a bullet!

  68. Anonymous

    This. I'm just astonished that the woman in the shorts is the one being shamed and not the men creating a hostile work environment. Egads.

  69. Anonymous

    I’ve been surprised at the lack of compassion and victim blaming towards other women that I commonly read on these boards here on FGB. Some of the things said on here sound like things that I’d hear coming out of my 74-year-old mother’s mouth.

  70. Anonymous

    Well said

  71. Anonymous

    Seeing same in my industry. I interviewed a candidate who was more interested in when she would be eligible for a week of vacation than the job responsibilities

    And my recruiter wonders why I asked her how candidates are vetted prior to sending me appointments for interviews

  72. Coach Nancie Kay Shuman

    To flip this on it's head, how many over qualified candidate have been passed over because they are, well, over qualified? I am searching for a day job while prepping for Grad school, have been working for myself for the last decade (I have a client list if asked,) and prior to that was an EA for C level executives for several years. I have a solid resume with good skills. I am applying for jobs at all levels, and thus far, crickets. I spoke with a recruiter I know and was told that HR tends to be afraid. Afraid that I'll try running the company (not my job,) afraid I'll get bored (probably, but not for the reasons they think,) afraid I'll leave without notice, (I will leave, as I have been accepted into a graduate program in London, and, you know, LONDON!), afraid that with my background in Coaching and Psychology, I'll start to psychoanalyze everyone, (maybe for fun, but again, not my job.) And then there is the simple, well, you haven't been coming into the office for the last 10 years. You don't want to work! Um, no, there are many reasons why I chose to work for myself, and if you really want to know about disease, dying and death, followed by situational depression, I am happy to tell you. But the fact that I cared for several family members who were terminally ill in a short period of time, (11 people died in 2.5 years, along with a cat and a major relationship ending,) really doesn't make for a happy conversation, even if it helps to explain why I took time away from a corporate post. And there was that world wide financial crisis, which we tend to forget about. . .

  73. Anonymous

    I too have many years of experience in supporting C level executives for a Fortune 250 company and can’t find anything paying a decent wage for my qualifications

  74. Sabine Morrow

    Spot on Nancie. How many times do I have to tell recruiters what skills the candidate they are looking for needs and why it's not me? How many times do you read boilerplate job descriptions so you can't even decide if this is a job you want or not? How many times do you have to put up with recruiters that have no idea what the job is? How often do you recruiters age discriminate? Or discriminate on other grounds? Better recruiting will find better candidates.

  75. Anonymous

    I recently interviewed for a 3 month position that a recruiter found me for. 'ASAP' was listed in the job title! I then didnt hear anything for a month (before the interview) and now it's been 2 weeks since the interview. And this is a pretty much an entry level job and I have 2+ masters degrees and 27 years of professional work experience. It pays 40k (I was making over 70K before a lay off). I was professional and enthusiastic during the interview despite the fact that based on what she said and knew, the hiring manager was not a particularly impressive prson (again, I'd defer to her as my boss and not be difficult. I know how the game is played). My point is this: employers need to DO BETTER. How is a 6 week lag time (minimum--it's been longer for other candidates for this job, I'm sure) 'ASAP?' and it's a 3 month gig! And fairly entry level? they wanted to fill it in Aug/Sept. I dressed up for the interview but I understand why someone wouldn't. Or wouldn't put on a super enthusiastic performance.

  76. Sara Streeter

    My firm is currently interviewing for an entry level accounting (audit) position. Yesterday we had what appeared to be a quality candidate who we had already pre screened just not show up. The interview coordinator called them to make sure they were not having technical issues (interview was over zoom as this is a remote position). The candidate said he forgot but he could get on zoom right then and then just never showed. I feel your pain!!

  77. Nikolina Finska

    I think that judging the candidates based on the look of their home it’s completely wrong. Unless it’s part of your job to showcase your home, why on Earth would you be bothered by it? How sloppy, dirty or untidy person is at home, has nothing to do with their ability to do the job. And if you are concerned about it, did you ask about it? Who knows what reasons person had: maybe they are taking care of sick parents or child and bedding is not even theirs.

  78. Lisa

    You must pick a spot is spot that is not distracting.

    As a candidate you put your best to put your best self forward.

    It is up to you to be prepared.

  79. Hold on Lee Lou

    Regardless of what the candidate's house looked like, the behavior and lack of consideration showed severe thoughtlessness. It's like showing up to an interview in pajamas.

    When you do online meetings, you pick a neutral spot in your home and wear the same top you would if you were in person. Behave as if you were sitting in front of the interviewer.

    They can be as sloppy as they want at home, but getting up in the middle of an interview and lacking the judgement to avoid showing your mess on camera are signs that they are a bad candidate. It's not the mess; it's the behavior and choices they made.

  80. Nikolina Finska

    I'm sorry, but your comment comes from very privileged point of view. I'm not interested in hiring privileged candidates, but capable ones. While there is no excuse for walking out from the interview or being rude, what you wear and how your house looks is irrelevant. We have to remember that pre Covid 19, we would never see this candidate home and people would not hold interviews between running house errands. Furthermore, these have been tough times for so many people. Not everyone can find quiet and elegant house corner. Many people had to downgrade their housing or take on extra responsibilities. Little bit of compassion and understanding goes long way. At the end of the day, what matters is can you do the job, do you have drive and passion and do you bring anything new to the team. If candidate fits those requirements, teaching someone to use Zoom background takes only few minutes

  81. Christina J

    The candidates you mentioned were great on paper but not great in person. This can happen. I would challenge you to do the opposite. Find a candidate who looks ok or promising and give them a chance.

    My resume looks like all I did was food and customer service with a couple of solid internships, but every job I had gave me great feedback on my work. I have over nine years of experience and I still get ignored. This could also be a sign to hire myself but I still put my resume out there.

    People who are great employees don’t always have the awesome longevity career or the cool companies on their resume. Try looking for people in service because these are the people that will be able to take on challenges, work long hours (if need be) and be excited to work for a company without having food stains or painful ears due to their headsets.

    They’re out there, we just need to give people a chance who may not look on paper that they deserve it.

    Hope you find someone great!

  82. Anonymous

    I feel like I'm having the same problem and then some. I posted a semi-senior level marketing role about 21 days ago and am getting people with VP level titles (this is not even close to the level of this position) or outrageous salary expectations. While some of them may be qualified I just can't bring myself to interview them if our salary range is a good $20k lower than the low end of their expectations. And we are a global fortune 500 company but again this isn't a VP level role with a salary to accompany. Its a semi-senior level marketing manager role. My boss thinks I'm settling for subpar candidates with no real experience but they are the only ones I've gotten who are within the salary range. I can't reasonably pay someone underneath myself more than I am making - when did salary requirements get sooo completely out of hand?! Marketing managers asking for $120k? This isn't silicone valley.

  83. Anonymous

    What city are you based? $110-120k salary for a marketing manager in nyc is average. I know because that’s my salary. I have been interviewing and recruiters have told me this is not an unreasonable salary ask for a mid size to bigger company.

  84. Carole Bennett

    Depending on seniority, that's actually a bit low; I know that role to pay out in the $140-160K+ range, depending on experience.

  85. Anonymous

    The role is 100% remote, I am getting candidates in Florida asking for $120k.

  86. Anonymous

    Generally, people’s expectations are out of proportion for a number of reasons. One reason is that there has been a shake up in the sense of risk, and a wobbly sense of the economy in the post-COVID panic reality. People don’t have a realistic sense of what employers can do and are grasping to post their wishes rather than a realistic economic reality. There is news of raising minimum wage, certain jobs have had incentives advertised (eg. Nursing) and we have yet to see what that will do more widely and on up the economic chain. In economics, there is a debate about whether employers set wages or whether market forces set them. One thing is probably clear though, applicants do not set their own wages directly. Another factor, on internet job platforms, there is mistrust before there is trust between potential applicant and employers. It used to be the other way around. Young people, especially, have little expectation that employers are a moral authority. They approach job searching with curiosity but not necessarily loyalty or trust. There is also both relative anonymity for applicants to over-subscribe to jobs and a tendency to exaggerate or experiment with identities on the internet in a way that just didn’t happen when resumes were mailed or handed to you in person. It is easy to apply to jobs without really considering the person on the other side who is reading these.

    I suggest using the internet to vet candidates for critical skills with open written questions or mandatory cover letter, give quick skills tests, collect references etc. And then, by using real telephone screening calls, invite suitable candidates for a second Zoom or in-person interview. Most of the online services limit length of the uploaded resumes and make everyone look like a one- or two-page candidate. It depends upon the platform you are using. In any case, don’t be discouraged by pie-in-the-sky salary fantasies on the internet. Just be upfront and candid about what the range or salary can be from your company and let them decline if that is honestly not what they are looking for.

  87. Anonymous

    To look at this from the other side: asking what a candidate would like to make w/o giving any sense of the range is BS. We have no options but to price ourselves out of the job or undercut ourselves and endanger our ability to provide for ourselves. It's a terrible thing to do to people that you are inviting to apply for a job. If you're not posting the salary range you're a part of the problem; a big part. (the general you, not you specifically--unless you're doing what I said.)nI recently applied for a job and salary was never mentioned. I was offered the position and right before that the salary was given. I tried to negotiate and it was rescinded (the offer). Had I know going in, weeks before, what it was, it would have helped me to accept the reality and take the job. I would have been happier a nd the position would have gotten a fantastic candidate. Instead I was blindsided and everyone lost out. what was the point of that?

  88. Anonymous

    The salary range is posted. The top is $90k, not sure why I get multiple people putting over that on their application.

  89. Anonymous

    Because even when a salary range is stated, in many places salary is actually negotiable. They don't know if that's firm or not.

  90. ShelleRae O'Connor

    I'm a very well qualified Marketing Manager. I consider myself to be mid-level. I've owned my own business and taught marketing. I'm just tired of doing it myself, I want to work for someone.

    And yes I expect to be looking at positions using my skill level at $90 to $120,000 especially if I'm creating content

  91. Healthcare worker

    Mid level managers in most industries make around 100-140,000 a year. Outside of Silicon Valley. Sounds like your company’s pay scales haven’t kept up with the times.

  92. Anonymous

    Maybe the VP candidates are looking to step back and take pay cuts. Unless they have shared their salary requirements then you don’t know.

  93. Anonymous

    They did, its part of the application. They want '$120k' to "step back" ugh.

  94. Anonymous

    They want it, but will they accept less? Nobody will low-ball a salary expectation. Salaries are supposed to be negotiated. Why would someone say they'd settle for a low salary up front?

  95. Anonymous

    Why are salary requirements causing you to eliminate candidates? You can interview them and explain the limitations. If someone has been a VP and is looking at downward roles, they are probably being passed up for lateral jobs in favor of internal candidates. You can have an honest conversation about salary and potential for promotion rather than let a key position go unfilled.

  96. Anonymous

    Speaking as someone who was once told I was "unemployable" for no reason other than lack of longevity in my roles and the roles I had experience in were low-level admin roles (even though I had a bachelor's degree). Since that time I went back to school, got another degree, and am now in HR. I have to wonder who you eliminated during the selection process and why. Perhaps it's time to reevaluate those you discarded or contact a temp service to do the sourcing for you.

  97. BeaBoss645203

    I am just going to put in 2 cents here. I started a job hunt in January - applied for jobs that I knew I was very well qualified for. Had at least 2 interviews, sometimes 3 each week because of my qualifications . A lot of them were in person - fine, I wear a mask when out. Besides I prefer going to an office . I always dress professionally, arrive a little before time - I know how to interview, and I look pretty good for my age. Always sent Thank You emails after each one and when I would not hear back, would inquire after a week or so. What was my problem ? I an older woman who still is in the work force. I knew that age discrimination was happening and even called out one interviewer - he admitted that he did not feel that older people caught on new computer programs quickly enough - lol. Well, in May I answered a job- totally out of my field except for experience in customer service- got hired right after the interview !! The lovely manager said she was tired of putting up with young women , their issues and not being realiable LOL. Actually I am quite happy here - grateful each day - and have the best hours and work with the nicest people. What I am trying to say is that when you look at peoples resumes, please don't weed out the older work force. We know work ethics and have the all round experience, and show up on time and never call in. It is so easy to figure out some ones age - look at their work history dates, or just google their name. Many companies are missing out on finding good employees because of this discrimination

  98. Ronda Dixon Rakes

    Sounds familiar! Both my sister and I believe we've experienced the same age discrimination, although proving it would be impossible.

  99. Elise Pilkington

    I agree with what you said and also want to point out that, due to the pandemic, some older workers may simply be opting out of the workforce at this point. I retired four years ago and always thought I'd go back to some sort of admin position (maybe part time) when I got tired of being at home all the time. Well, the pandemic changed my mind, at least until things settle down. Same thing for mothers of young children.

  100. ShelleRae O'Connor

    Many of us are pivoting.

    I've done 10-15 years in several different industries with massive qualifications it's time to go into something interesting again and learn something new.

  101. Angie Martin

    I think it's very funny when people, especially younger men, think older women don't have the mental capacity to pick up new computer programs.

    I have been learning new programs since I was about 10 years old! Yes, many of those programs are insanely obselete, but that is why we needed to learn different programs.

    I'm the one in the family that sets up computers, runs anti-virus scans and backs data up. Not too bad for an "old lady".

  102. Anonymous

    Somehow, being able to use Facebook and Instagram makes someone a "digital native," but having transitioned from hollerith cards to monitor-less computers to DOS to Windows to the next Windows etc. and several iterations of other software over the course of 40+ years makes a person unable to adapt? Crazy.

  103. Anonymous

    Honestly - I just got my Masters Degree at 61. I may only have another ten good years in the workforce, but I have the education and ability to spend that ten years doing some phenomenal work.

    And the idea that anyone 30 years younger than I am is going to spend ten years in the same job is antiquated, so why not hire someone older?

  104. Anonymous

    Exactly! The days when people in their 20s looked for a lifetime job are long gone!

  105. Anonymous

    Cannot agree more.

  106. Nicole

    Sometimes people have unique circumstances around their situation. I’m a Reservist in the military and actively interviewed for positions during my last month of deployment (I was actively trying to leave a toxic employer who was not supportive of my service). I obviously did not have an office to interview from, and did not have business clothes to wear for the interview. I was upfront with HR and the hiring mgr about my situation, and all understood. I did at least keep my room cleaned and wore my most presentable hoodie…lol. However, as a hiring mgr I agree, all your examples are out of bounds. I once had a candidate come in to interview with just me. She was a little more casual, but since she was a social worker I know they can be. She came back for a 2nd interview with more sr leadership dressed even more inappropriately. Sun dress, jean jacket, shiny gold eyeshadow. And I had told her who she was interviewing with and it was for a leadership role! The sad thing is that she again interviewed well, but her appearance was so unprofessional that she didn’t get the role.

  107. Anonymous

    Goodness. If someone did not get a job because of eye shadow, I'm glad I'm not interviewing with your company because I cannot wear make up (allergies - my skin ends up massively broken out). Guess my lack of makeup would also be held against me.

  108. Nicole

    What does wearing eyeshadow appropriate for the club have to do with you not wearing makeup? Those are two different extremes. It was distracting, which made the interviews focus on that and not on her knowledge and experience. Sorry babe, this is corporate America. While we’ve come a long way, there’s a time and a place for everything.

  109. Dawn Hughes

    lol hilarious.. all you need to say here..."corporate america" explains it all. Now I'm laughing...

  110. Anonymous

    Not shiny eyeshadow!

  111. BeaBoss750792

    I’ve worked in software for 20 years. A nice sundress and a denim jacket would be fairly typical interview clothing for a woman in tech at most places I’ve worked.

  112. Nicole

    Not in healthcare. It's way too casual.

  113. Anonymous

    So here is a tip in response to you wearing a hoodie to an interview. How about visiting a thrift store where you could of spent a very small amount of money to invest in presentable attire for an interview? I once had an interview and I have less than $30 to my name and I went to JC Penney and found a skirt with matching top on the clearance rack which totaled with tax about $21.00-I wore it to my interview with a black blazer I already had and actually got a compliment in the parking garage as I was getting out of my car to head into the interview. I still have that outfit and have worn it to other interviews and received many compliments. People stop me on my way into interviews and compliment me on my attire. I am not joking... You can get many things at thrift stores or clearance racks. Or borrow them from a friend.

  114. ShelleRae O'Connor

    Or throw costly dress codes away and let people come as themselves.

    Obviously keep the good hygiene and the holes in clothes.

  115. Anonymous

    Here's another tip: stop assuming that you know best. Nicole said she was on deployment, not vacation. Going shopping is probably not something she could've done. Also, borrow them from a friend? Because *someone* must've remembered to bring their business casual best on deployment with them, right? Think before you type or at least read.

  116. Nicole

    Lol thanks, though the other post’s cluelessness truly made me laugh. Just goes to show your typical American is so disconnected from the service member experience.

  117. Anonymous

    So you are making fun of nationality also? You don't sound like such a good hiring manager. It's ok, it's our world now. You hiring managers that critique can now laugh at us applicants all you want, we are having the last laugh at you noticing our eye shadow instead of our skills and what we have to offer -FOCUS NOW... Leave the petty catty women judgement out of candidate selection. I mean it's almost comical you were so judging an applicant on her eye shadow..... Really?

  118. Nicole

    I’m not making fun of nationality (FYI I’m an American as well). I’m stating my perception that your typical American is so far removed from other Americans who serve that they have no clue what we go through, I.e. your comment about me going thrift store shopping while I was deployed. Obviously you really do not grasp what that means. And now want to be “offended” by anything I say. Yes, her eyeshadow was completely unprofessional for the interview setting. If she was interviewing for an entry level job, sure. But not what I would expect from someone interviewing for a leadership role.

  119. Anonymous

    for the love of god, I missed where she said she was in the middle east. And I stand by my possible solution to an issue you hiring managers have with candidates. Fess up, you know you low ball candidates, discriminate and ghost us after qualified candidates put in time effort and energy to interview. Psshhh sit down on your LOL tips.. and criticism of candidates. You are no angles either... Now giggle yourself right off into your day. And have a good one at that.

  120. Nicole

    Lol I was in the Middle East. There were no thrift shops on base. It took Amazon a minimum of two weeks to ship, which is not something easy to plan for with an interview. Trust me, at home I have very nice business clothes. I hadn’t planned on bringing my M.M. lafleur to the desert, until my current employer decided to lose their minds.

    This was hilarious.

  121. Anonymous

    Yeah I missed where you said you were on deployment so laugh away. It's a sensible solution to people maybe in the states that need to put in a little effort into their jobs search. Especially if they have landed an interview. But you did say you were a hiring manager and mentioned choice of eye shadow and a sundress of a candidate that you interviewed. Who are you to criticize if you yourself wore a hoodie? You don't know their circumstances either.

  122. Nicole

    Maybe next time you should pay attention to the post before replying, keyboard warrior. And I was DEPLOYED. She was interviewing for a leadership position, in the US. Big difference. Do you even understand what that means?

  123. BeaBoss750792

    The thrift store solution, unfortunately, assumes that a candidate wears a clothing size where it’s easy to find nice clothing in her size at a thrift store. This becomes a lot more difficult if you’re plus size or very petite.

  124. Anonymous

    Speaking as a 30 year old who went through numerous interviews. Dressed well, did my makeup, always smell good, polite and always respected everyone around me. I was left in the cold by many hiring managers. It boils down to what company you are hiring for and also the pay. I believe if you offer up the positions info upfront then possibly more qualified candidates will come your way. You could ask your other co workers etc to see if they have any qualified candidates as well.

    I know there is a lot of lashing out on the young generation stating being unreliable, having issues, drama. I would defy that. I worked very hard to get the job I am in now and went through a lot of office politics as well. My mental health took a toll. I always showed up for the job and I was early than most of my other co workers. I was keen on learning and always asked questions.

    You can try to give someone a chance who doesn’t have much experience and possibly train them, but again many aren’t willing to do that these days either.

  125. Paulla Fetzek, MSEd

    One hundred percent agree with you on the "not willing to train" aspect. And I've been in the work force for over 30 years.

    When I'm interviewing, I would much prefer if a candidate had excellent Excel skills. This is the program used the most on my team in my Department. But, if I found a person who seemed a great fit - but the person didn't have the Excel skills - I would be willing to give them a go!

  126. Anonymous

    Once upon a time, I had basic Excel skills. A company took a chance on me, I was taught more advance skills and for the last 13 years, I have been a data analyst for a small company that was later acquired by a Fortune 500 company. I enjoy my job and have continued learning new programs and such along. This upcoming year, we are changing platforms, and I will have the opportunity to learn another new software.

  127. Anonymous

    I wish more companies were like you! I don't have great Excel skills but I would love to learn. Unfortunately, employers want a unicorn candidate who ticks every box. It's not going to happen and then they wonder why they can't find anyone.

  128. ShelleRae O'Connor

    Funny you mention Excel skills, the last company I worked for for over 10 years I got the job because I could run an Excel spreadsheet past the first page and understood tabs and linking. Added contributions to my higher or that I was no longer using dashes in my phone number, had a Gmail address and told the owner that she was perfectly capable of bringing her design and marketing in house. In a 10-year relationship accomplished all of those things in the first two.

  129. Anonymous

    If you're not going to hire her because she had a grocery bag and was casually dressed despite being your best qualified candidate, at least own your decision and tell her why you didn't hire her, so she can avoid that bump in the interview process in the future. Or maybe you could extend some grace, check back in with her, and see if there was something else going on/if you could do a subsequent interview, explaining company attire and such. Or keep getting bottom of the barrel candidates while knowing that you bypassed a decently qualified candidate whom you could have spent a little effort because of their outfit.

  130. Anonymous

    Yes to everything you said. Could be a bad day and they did not want to miss it - but if you ask you will find out more. In this last 18 months we have all changed in what we feel is appropriate attire. I see people in meetings with our bosses in workout clothing - like they just finished a workout - not just wearing the workout clothing. They need to find the "change background" on zoom and either blurr or change to a fake background. I do this as they do not need to see my room - gives me some sense that my home is still my home.

  131. Anonymous

    Good points! Having to have my annual review in my own house made it feel less like a safe space where I can be free of what the outside world wants of me, esp b/c I have a 1 bedroom apt, and no office space. Not even a desk (just a kitchen table). Recently I had to make an interview video (ugh, the worst) and there were tips like: do it in front of a plain white wall. Well....I don't have a plain white wall anywhere in here that I could put a table in front of, nor should I have to have that.. It's my damned house. I'm not trying to be difficult--i dressed up put on make up (that I never wear) and did my best to use a good background, but it was just a ridiculous ask. Most vids are viewed by an AI only, not a person, and if that robot can't make me out in front of my small framed art print on the wall behind me, then ...well I'd like to say 'it's not a place I want to work' but we all know we can't always be that picky. And I didn't advance in that job process, btw. I told my framed Cezanne print it was guilty of standing in my way. :)

  132. Brown’s Pond

    I would definitely look at a candidate who had the qualifications but may have not dressed the part. If you’ve never worked in a specific setting before , you may just not know. You can always go over expectations (including work appropriate clothing) at another interview/upon hiring. Something else you may want to look at is the benefit package for the position. Take a look at similar positions and try to find out what kind of pay/benefits that may include. You may be getting bottom of the barrel because your company is paying bottom of the barrel.

  133. Anonymous

    Yes, someone applying for a first job may not know the unspoken expectations. In the old days, only people who wanted to be secretaries had typing skills. Now, everybody has the skills for an admin position, but they didn't get them through secretarial training.

  134. Anonymous

    I feel your pain! I have a somewhat entry level position posted right now that pays well with good benefits. People don't respond to interview invites or if they schedule a Zoom interview, don't show up. If they do show up, the things they share during the interview can be shocking (tip - don't rant on about your previous employer). A thank you note still, to me, shows genuine interest, appreciation of the interviewers time and good follow up skills. It's interesting how many people don't do that anymore.

  135. Anonymous

    What's the pay range? Is that listed in the job posting?

  136. Anonymous

    I share the pay range in the initial interview invite. Don't want to waste candidates time (or mine) if its not going to work for them.

  137. Cyndi Rosenblatt

    You would get a stronger pool of applicants if you listed the pay range in the job posting. So many people I know refuse to even apply because it's presumed the pay scale is too low if it's not posted.

  138. Anonymous

    I feel we should 100% dress for success AND especially in an interview! I'm a candidate who is very clean, professional and has an upbeat positive attitude but.... I'm lacking education. I have 10+ years in corporate America. I count on ppl with high education (possibly entitled) acting/dressing or just being unprofessional. It helps me stand out, even without an education. So hiring managers, do you agree? Thanks!

  139. Angie Martin

    I haven't had many of these problems, but haven't had many applications. The interviews are so-so, but we are looking for someone who will stay a while and who will fit in, which is more difficult than it sounds. I'd like someone my age (Gen-X), honestly, but very few people are applying. Most are very young, which is not a deal breaker, but unfortunately, they always want a promotion about 2-3 months in. I work for a very small company. There's no place for someone to go, unless it's a lateral move and even then, there are few jobs.

  140. Nicole Young-Turner

    Please center Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion—ageism is rampant in HR, and making assumptions based on age can be detrimental and discriminatory. ?

  141. Anonymous

    I would be very careful about what you say re: age in a public forum! I'd prefer you revise your thoughts about age in hiring, but if nothing else, don't make them public! I am sometimes shocked at what people are willing to say about their companies using their real names! Yikes!

  142. ShelleRae O'Connor

    As a Gen-X I'd be looking for a pay rate that fits my skills, and experience. Especially in a small company where we're going to be as to extend ourselves beyond the normal range.

  143. Anonymous

    Admittedly, some of the behaviors you mentioned are concerning. Also concerning is that there seems to be a trend of companies, hiring managers, and people in HR who do not know how to invest in their employees, train, or coach. The level of experience and knowledge people are supposed to have is generally unrealistic. If you expect great things from your employees then you need to provide great things like career pathways and opportunities for growth. Also, make sure the people in your company who manage and supervise actually know how to do those things. Many people have poor leadership and communication skills and think that supervising means surveillance. Lots of unfortunate outcomes are related to bad supervision.
    For this position, I wonder if there is an internal candidate who might be best.

  144. Anonymous

    Good point!

  145. Anonymous

    This is such an excellent comment! I can't speak about any of the people interviewing for the OPs job, but having read lots of posts here about how these really aren't great times for finding non-service jobs despite what the media keeps saying, I wonder how many of these interviewees have zoom fatigue, depression from not working and living the covid life, have been through 6 interviews for the same job, been ghosted by employers, etc. It's a 2-way street and it helps to remember that.

  146. melissa_h2os

    Absolutely not...typically candidates put their best foot forward (dress for success) when interviewing...if their best is dirty sweats and rude unprofessional behavior...thank them for their time... #next ...if that's their best, the worst is yet to come...friday the 13th will be your new norm...all day...every day...

  147. JSan

    YES. Which is why, when I read some of these posts by job seekers, complaining about the process or not being contacted in a manner to their liking, I instantly think to myself, wonder what that interview was REALLY like.

  148. Anonymous

    Even if the interview was terrible they still deserve to be told No thank you. That's also a great chance for someone to give them professional feedback about their interview so they can learn and improve for the next interview.

  149. Anonymous

    Have you considered that not enough applicants might be a result of the ATS?

  150. Anonymous

    This is exactly what I was thinking!

  151. Rosaline Gibbons

    These candidates may just need a chance to prove themselves. This past two years has been an eye opener for people. Many have lost their jobs and some may be looking to change professions where they were paid “under the table” and did not qualify for the benefits that were offered. The lady that had soiled bed covers may not have a job, therefore no money to do laundry and she’s trying to find work. Many people have gained weight during the pandemic and can’t fit the clothes they have and can’t afford to buy clothes now. Don’t be so quick to label a person unfit just because they are not doing what you think they should be doing or should know what not to do or because they look/dress a certain way. The rate rent and food had skyrocketed and is out of control people are asking for more money. Stop judging and give people a chance!

  152. Anonymous

    I agree to give people a chance but candidates should be professional during interviews!

  153. Anonymous

    I know this may sound like a bit of a cop-out, but a lot of people are suffering from corporate burn out. Trying to get excited about your job when circumstances are constantly changing has personal been very difficult for me. Watching so much chaos, illness, ups and downs… it’s a lot. I’m not saying going to an interview in your best LuLu Lemon is a good idea, but remember to be patient.

  154. Anonymous

    My office has been having difficulty finding appropriate candidates as well. We've always had the mindset, hire for personality and train the skills needed. It allows for much better office culture and a more pleasant environment where the staff actually enjoy working together and teamwork is not an issue. However, the interview is absolutely where the candidate should be putting their best foot forward. Asking about drug use or suddenly getting up during the interview without any explanation are definitely deal breakers for me. As far as somebody not being appropriately dressed, if they wowed me in every other department I may consider letting that slide but I would have to be seriously wowed, and I would stress the dress code prior to making an offer.

  155. Peggy Anne Black

    I would first ask where you are posting this job and what are the requirements for the position, next what is your screening process prior to the interview? Candidates may not understand the the position to which they are applying.
    As someone that was laid off recently and desperately trying to get interviews I know that there are many people out there willing and able to work.

  156. Kathryn

    HR here I have 5 open positions I get ghosted constantly and the ones that do come want far ore than the position offers. I would take badly dressed just at least come to the interview

  157. ShelleRae O'Connor

    So what positions are open and where are you located? Payscale? Company culture?

  158. Deb Allen

    I am a corporate recruiter and while not noticing those kinds of things in interviews, definitely noticing people stretching their experience in the responses to application questions. They click "yes" to all the qualification questions but a review of their resume indicates they have none of the required experience.

    I believe that people are trying to raise themselves into better jobs because the media is always talking about how companies are desperate for employees. I even hear from candidates via LinkedIn (so kudo's for reaching out and finding a company contact) but as a company we struggle with volumes of unqualified candidates.

  159. Anonymous

    It would be impossible for a resume to reflect all of a person's experience. The resume is a starting point. How about looking at a the current resume and understanding that people can grow into a job in the same field as long as they show growth and accomplishments in their current resume.

  160. Anonymous

    Yes, all the blogs and industry advisors state to keep the resume to 1 page and bullet points - recruiters do not have time for a dossier on your career history much your life's work . If they want to know more about you then they will contact you to ask you. So I would just like to know the real story - what do recruiters look for at large corcorations?

  161. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I'll say it once more for those in the back:

    I do not care how long your resume is - content matters, not length. As long as it's relevant and not your entire life story. I. DO. NOT. CARE.

    I have never, ever had a hiring manager tell me they would not speak with a candidate because their resume was two pages instead on one.

    You want to immediately get on my bad side? Squish your resume onto one page in size 8 font and try to make me go blind reading it.

    Your resume should have plenty of white space and be broken up into easily read bullet points.

    Exception to this rule - if you are a new grad with no experience.

  162. Deb Allen

    Fully agree, I am constantly saying the same thing. Make it relevant to the role, length is not a concern unless you make it 5+ pages, if so you'd better be a published PhD.

  163. Deb Allen

    I can only speak for my own employer, so it depends on the role. We are a federal contractor so we are held to requirements of the OFCCP and other compliance issues. As a corporation we hire to each role and the experience it requires vs overall organizational profiles as an example.

  164. Anonymous

    What was the pay range for this job posting? Are you hoping that polished professionals flock to a 35k a year opportunity or is this something truly competitive?

  165. shaz1972

    Good point you get what you pay for

  166. Anonymous

    Lol right?

  167. Anonymous

    As someone who has been on interviews with managers who have lied about how long they actually intended on keeping me in a position, did a bait and switch on who I would actually work for (I start off with the kind or nice manager then get moved over to work for the problem child/narcissistic/prima donna client or boss or team lead after a few months or even a few weeks), has had to survive five layoffs, sat back and watched managers bring in people from outside of the company while refusing to train me or other people who would love a promotion, acting like I'm supposed to have a master's degree when they themselves only have a high school diploma, a society that acts like debauchery is cool or cute-----all I can say is that I do not feel have much empathy for your situation. How about promoting someone who works under you for a change? How about building VPs and executives from within your organization? How about not expecting entry level candidates to have 10 years of experience? Stop requiring degrees for everything. That's why some companies cannot find people. They don't think anyone is good enough.

  168. Anonymous

    boom!

  169. Anonymous

    So well put!! I agree, ZERO empathy from me. Stop asking for a bachelor's degree for a receptionist position! Or a master's degree for an "Admin Role"! And stop offering someone that has well over 10+ yr of experienced and is seasoned/polished a 30-40% LESS in salary. You get what you pay for! Again, Karma wins.

  170. Sheila Senescall

    THANK YOU!

  171. Debbie Vereb

    We have experienced the same thing just trying to find people to work. I am not sure how to think about the person that showed up in errand clothes. Is it possible this is all she has? I don't know, I think you should dress for success but if she has the skills to do the job then maybe she should be considered. You can always have a discussion about proper office attire if the plan is they will be working in the office. Just a thought.

  172. Anonymous

    lol! It's not funny, but it is funny. But in all honesty, I've been treated like crap by recruiters who after 1 phone interview, 3 in person interview, where I had to travel 90 mile 1 way to those 3 interviews and multiple skills testing and I never received a status phone call back after I sent Thank you letters for taking the time to interview me, and also made 2 phone calls to inquire about the job, I had to figure it out that I didn't get the job after being ghosted . No communication from the recruiter or anything. And that is only 1 instance of being treated like crap and traveling from San Diego, to Pasedena, CA for 3 interviews. Work it out, man. Karma.

  173. Anonymous

    I agree with the post - about "Karma"...deal with it now. Back in Oct 2020, I was SO conscientious, followed up with pertinent questions, dressed well and was very polished, with great presentation skills, passed ALL skills/assessment tests and didn't ask any of those inappropriate questions, yet I was ghosted too! And my resume was ON POINT, as were my 6 professional references and letters too. So, now the tables are turned! As I knew they would be...and you are getting "bottom of the barrel", as you probably should. Lesson to learn -- treat ALL applicants with the respect you expect to receive. Karma is never kind.

  174. ShelleRae O'Connor

    My 2¢ as a very qualified candidate that can't seem to get interviews ...

    Many of the positions are asking for more than 8 hours of work at less than living wage ...

    When I've gotten interviews I've been asked if I'm sure I can handle the 10-12 hour days. When I've mentioned overtime they've all ended interviews.

    I've been asked to interview for X position, then they see my extensive resume and the position morphs to Y and Z. When I explain that those skills require a different payscale; interview is over.

    So why are HR seeing bottom of the barrel? It's you pay for what you get.

    Don't ask me for my advanced skills and extensive knowledge for $20 an hour. Burger places pay that.

  175. Dagney Taggart

    Twenty an hour. I wish.

  176. Pebbles

    Oh, my, yes. I started my job last November, and soon after started the search for the second person on my team (the other one had been hired already). It took six months, and I may have settled (jury is out).

    Example: one candidate, a young guy with lots of promise, showed up to the Zoom interview in a t-shirt. Ooookkkaayyy. But then, he showed little knowledge of the role despite having been informed by HR, and then proceeded to insult the HR person, who was on the call. Arrogant doesn’t begin to describe him. Obviously, we couldn’t say no fast enough.

  177. Rebeca

    And then there are those of us who dress appropriately and wear makeup for the Zoom interview, have a tidy office space, meet all the position requirements, and who
    will happily move for the job, and ... crickets.

  178. Anonymous

    so so many crickets. i feel you.

  179. Maegan, Nike Sales Rep & Career Coach

    Might be worth reworking the job posting if you are not attracting the kind of candidates you are looking for!

  180. Audrey Nickel

    Has it occurred to you that, in addition to a low pay scale, you may be greatly limiting your hiring pool by imposing ridiculous requirements? I look at so-called "entry-level" jobs on LinkedIn these days, and see requirements for post-graduate degrees and/or for five or more years experience with certain platforms. As a copywriter/editor with more than 30 years of experience, I don't meet major requirements for most of the "entry-level" jobs out there, and thus don't even pass the resume screening process! Make your expectations reasonable for the job and you may get more high-quality candidates

  181. Anonymous

    Imagine how college graduates feel when trying to find work. I'm 32 and I got my BA at 26. I also have an Associates degree. It's very hard trying to find work. I currently work as a receptionist full-time and even I'm having trouble finding a different job.

  182. Anonymous

    I don't think hiring managers and recruiters have a damn clue what they are doing.

  183. Deb Allen

    That might be too broad of a statement. Can you give more examples?

  184. ShelleRae O'Connor

    I see comments about dress code.

    I just flat out told a recruiter, don't send me to a coporate or enterprise position where the pay won't cover my dry cleaning or my shoes and required feminine primping. Personally, that adds $250 a month to my income requirements. Happy to do it if the pay matches. But again, 8f male colleagues aren't required to "make the same effort" I'm not interested.

    I'm happy to do business casual but I see little reason to be expected to dress beyond what male colleagues are; nice pants or jeans and polo or button down.

  185. Karen Gongaware

    Yes. Skills win over fashion. For the love of god, some people do not own interview clothing that fits and can't afford it. Go with the skills and discuss attire for the work place during the second interview. Or remind them. I could care less if they showed up in a swimming suit for an interview, as long as they can get the job done.

  186. Anonymous

    Adding something about presentation to the job description could help weed out people who are slovenly by choice.

  187. Kari Hadley

    As a very qualified candidate who happens to be 62, I have a question? Why are recruiters and hiring managers ignoring those of us who have a lot of experience, who are happy with the salaries being offered, and who know how to be professional?

  188. Sheila Senescall

    As a 54 year old woman with a ton of experience, I say THANK YOU!
    I am an administrative professional who has worked within the educational, energy, and nonprofit sectors. What is the common thread among these seemingly different workplaces? While the industries have been quite different from each other, my role, as well as aspects around being an EA, remained the same. I have a unique ability to work effectively with people at all levels and I present a helpful but get it done attitude

  189. Anonymous

    To mirror Sheila, I'm 47 and also thank you! I feel like so many places have started thinking that admin roles are ALWAYS a springboard and if we're still doing it for 10-15 years there most be something wrong with us. No, I just like being an admin.

  190. Anonymous

    I work in a receptionist role, and I've been looking for other entry-level positions. After almost 5 years of receptionist/admin experience, I'm ready for a change. Good for you that you like it. I'm over it lol.

  191. Anonymous

    I've worked with recruiters before. I swear these people don't even read my resume and send me jobs I'm not qualified for. Or, I'll have an interview with them going over my resume, and then I'll meet with them the next day and they ask about my resume again! ??? I hate recruiters.

  192. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    I can't help but wonder what your stated salary range is. If it's low, consider upping it to get better candidates.

  193. Angel Girl

    Maybe they’re doing it on purpose, maybe they don’t want to work and may be getting unemployment. As long as they interviewed, that is sufficient for the benefits to continue. Also like others stated maybe the salary is not high enough. One last thing, specify the interview requirements and behavior in the hiring ad. Just my opinion, good luck, hope you find the candidates you’re looking for.

  194. Anonymous

    Yes, it's a game. If the job isn't paying a living wage, the only "candidates" will be doing it just to check off the boxes to keep their benefits. The good candidates are out there. They may be applying for better-paying jobs.

  195. Angel Girl

    Exactly I personally know people that don’t want to work because they are making more with their unemployment. They flat out didn’t start looking for work until all their unemployment was finished. And recently unemployment was requiring people to show proof that they are looking for jobs and interviewing to continue receiving their benefits.

  196. Sheila Senescall

    This article is a joke right?!?

  197. Jillian Johnson

    Probably not

  198. Anonymous

    Where are you and can I apply? I'm an admin with 8 years experience, 3 in executive roles. I've been looking for three months and tomorrow when my contract is up, I don't have a job.

    This is like an "embarrassment of riches" in reverse. One can only assume that you aren't paying near what a good candidate is worth. That's why they aren't applying. We're here.

  199. Diane Frances Lesley-Neuman

    Can you please tell me why companies are rejecting and ghosting good candidates? Or allow diligent workers to be bullied on the job?

  200. Gerald Woods

    I'm with you on that. I know I was ghosted by so many companies, and I know I was qualified. Now they need employees and continue to ghost and reject as if they really could care less.

  201. Angie

    Rejecting and ghosting good candidates: insecurity of the hiring manager/team lead; lack of people skills, terrible management; fear; arrogance; lazy; company culture. Either way, this is a huge red flag.

    allow diligent workers to be bullied on the job: same as above with one additional point....potential legal action if acknowledged. Acknowledging could open the flood gates for a class action suit since it could be an ongoing issue that has always been ignored.

  202. Anonymous

    Companies need to reevaluate their requirements. People will click all of the boxes hoping to get an interview and show you they can be trained. It is absolutely asinine companies require 3+ years experience and/or a degree for jobs that they can train people on. A lot of positions do not require a degree.
    Choose wisely. You want the experience, the degree and polished professional you need to stop insulting them and fork over the pay, benefits and perks. Even if you are willing to train someone you still need to offer a wage that is appealing and more than a high school student makes serving up fast food.

  203. Anonymous

    Lol and then you see employers complaining that "nO oNe wAnTs tOo wOrK".

  204. Anonymous

    I suggest doing a second interview with the first person and find additional candidates before making a final decision...maybe 2 or 3 more.

  205. Anonymous

    I just completed a second interview with the first candidate and she came dressed poorly (despite HR telling her to dress professionally). I figured perhaps to her this was what she considered professional attire. She boldly asked me minutes after sitting down "when do I start." So those of you who flap your gums that us terrible hiring managers are the problem, you don't know what you're talking about.

  206. Anonymous

    Not sure why you targeted me with that comment since I never said you were a terrible hiring manager. While I get you are frustrated, don't take it out on me and don't assign mess to me I didn't say. I am done with commenting on this thread.

  207. Anonymous

    Oh my goodness! Is this click-bait?

    As one person pointed out - are you providing a liveable wage? Where I live, I need $22 an hour JUST to meet rent and utilities! I have been unemployed for 1.5 years after a layoff because 1) no one wants to interview someone who's been at the same company for 20+ years; 2) the pay isn't manageable. I can't afford new clothes and I'm not even sure what interview attire is anymore! Especially on video interviews. I've been turned down for jobs because of my age and "overqualified" which is kinda bull. I wouldn't have applied if I didn't think I couldn't do the job. I'm not sure you will get much sympathy from a forum where people are open, willing, and ready to work.

    Look at your requirements and your compensation. Make sure they match. If they don't, decide what your must-haves are and adjust accordingly.

  208. Anonymous

    Exactly ?. Also, when posting a job, PUT IN THE SALARY RANGE AND BENEFITS in the description. Job descriptions need to be realistic. Honestly, I think employers are just looking for a unicorn.

  209. Anonymous

    Also, I live in NYC. $22 is not even enough.

  210. Anonymous

    In NYC (anywhere) not just Manhattan - $22 is nothing....get ready to find roommates!

  211. Anonymous

    Compensation is high, benefits excellent.

  212. Anonymous

    I have to say I agree with a lot of the below comments
    however
    I don’t care what the job pays I don’t care what the job is if you applied for it and said yes to an interview show some professionalism , if you didn’t think the job paid enough then don’t waste anyone’s time showing up in gym clothes even
    if I were applying g to a gym I would dress in slacks a nice shirt and casual blazer it’s not acceptable to show up in gym clothes carrying plastic bags how would you show up to the job?? You don’t have be wealthy to dress professionally and getting up during an interview with no reason? And showing your mess behind you?? That is clearly someone who is doing the interview for unemployment reasons
    Take some Pride in your appearance I applied for a job at Burger King years ago and dressed in plain slacks a shirt and blazer I was a newly divorced mom of two and got the job nothing fancy I had my resume and was ready to work.
    I am sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for bad behavior if you didn’t want the job don’t apply
    if it’s too much effort to get dressed don’t take the interview I know this won’t be popular but dress for the job you want

  213. Anonymous

    Well said, wish I could like this 10000 times. Finally someone with common sense.

  214. Anonymous

    I 100% agree. Act like you belong. At least try and have some sense of behavioural decency.

  215. Anonymous

    “Act like you belong” wow….

  216. Creence Lin

    Yes, I would hire the candidate. When I was speaking with prospective university hires at UC Berkeley for a tier 1 consulting firm recruiting for the client and market roles which are very client facing, one woman showed up in a midriff top. Our official dress was business casual for most clients, maybe smart casual for certain really casual clients. I consulted Elements of Programming Interviews author Adnan Aziz and he suggested that I stick to the scoring metrics and that dress code was easily coachable and fixable. In retrospect, I agree. I also asked about this when I was at a large defense contractor. My boss said that even if a candidate showed up with tatoos and earrings, it is against the diversity policy to hold that against them. (This was not a client facing role however.)

  217. Anonymous

    This is a client facing role.

  218. Anonymous

    I agree that there are certain things that can be coached if appropriate. I have a friend who always wore a hot pink suit (she was very very blond) and said she realises what an impression it made. But, she said, it made her feel confident and good about herself.

  219. Anonymous

    You are not paying enough.

  220. Anonymous

    Right. Why are employers not getting this?????

  221. Anonymous

    Not true.

  222. Anonymous

    How do you know that's not true? How do you decide on a pay rate? Have you looked at comparable pay in the area? Do you offer good benefits? If you pay at the level of can't-buy-nice-clothes, the people who consider your position the next level will have trouble looking presentable.

  223. Anonymous

    Because the pay offered is higher than comparable rates (something all candidates listed as one reason they're interested in the position). The benefits are excellent: full medical, dental, vision, flex spending plan, no cost life insurance at 1x the annual pay, free prescription, generous time off (unlimited for salaried employees) and so much more. So now that you've been made aware that your initial assertion was wrong, you need to consider that these were just poor candidates.

  224. Anonymous

    I think you guys in HR are too busy looking for a Unicorn that you will find the slightest thing to be an easy turn off. I’ve been qualified for jobs before and I know I am a really great employee no matter where I go and a very fast learner. However if I don’t the exact words you want in my resume or if I don’t have 20 years experience or if I get nervous on an interview you easily dismiss people like me. So maybe you need to be more flexible because you can be over looking great candidates who are human with imperfections.

  225. Kathryn

    I would hire you in a seconf

  226. Anonymous

    I don't think anyone in HR even have a clue on what they're doing.

  227. Deirdre Fisher

    This is not a helpful comment.

  228. Anonymous

    Why not? It's true. A lot of hiring managers are out of touch with reality a far as job postings go.

  229. Anonymous

    Its not true of all hiring managers. You come off sounding angry and bitter when you make sweeping statements.

  230. Anonymous

    Exactly. Its obviously sour grapes from sour dispositions.

  231. Anonymous

    They actually do not! Many managers have their heads in the sand, and have no clue what their staff do, the amount of work they are faced with and what type of deadlines or personalities staff have to interact and deal with...that in my opinions is a LOUSY manager, someone that is out of touch with her workforce. So when it comes to interviewing, she/he is so in the dark, and focuses on the most irrelevant minuscule aspects of a candidate's presentation. That speaks volumes of a company's culture. Looking for unicorns, and wasting our valuable time!

  232. Anonymous

    This is an ignorant and overbroad response.

  233. Anonymous

    But don't have 21 years' experience...then you are overqualified!

  234. Carole Bennett

    Consider this possible scenario; due to Covid, your promising candidate may have lost her job, her home, and a means to keep a more polished wardrobe. If she's staying at a shelter, that plastic bag may represent all she has of value in the world.

    Try some compassion; if she's solid enough for a trial run, suggest a local charity that provides work clothing for women returning to the workforce, or a good women's clothing resale store.

    There was a period in my life that my entire work wardrobe came from Goodwill and thrift stores; I had experience in clothing, so I could spot good brands and classic cuts that I could upscale with accessories - but not everyone has that knack.

    At the end of the day, are you hiring a clotheshorse, or someone to actually do the job? Give that promising candidate an opportunity, show some compassion (without judgement or condescension), and see what happens. I'm willing to bet you'll be amazed.

  235. Anonymous

    Well said!

  236. Paula Suzanne

    Love this answer. I’d advise just being mindful first of tactfully finding out why she dressed the way she did, rather than straight away mentioning local charities to provide clothing.

  237. Gerald Woods

    At least he/she made it to the interview. I'm sure they wore what they had, but of course, that's overlooked. A solid company doesn't look at what the potential new hires are wearing, but the content of the interview. This is another indicator as to why an overwhelming amount of people are not in the workforce, and it's not only the fault of the people, but it's also the businesses and corporations who have not evolved with the times.

  238. Anonymous

    That is simply not true. Most Fortune 500 companies most certainly look at appearance as you are representing the company.

  239. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    In case you haven't heard, it's a candidate's market. Way more positions than people to fill them.

    Where are you posting your positions? What are your requirements? Does your pay range reflect the requirements? You're interviewing people virtually, can the position be done remotely? It would greatly expand your talent pool.

  240. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    Meant to add to my comment below: What kind of reputation does your company have? What do your Glassdoor and Indeed reviews look like?

  241. Anonymous

    Exactly. If I see terrible reviews, I'm not applying. If I don't see both the salary and benefits listed I'm not applying. If the requirements are unreasonable, I'm not applying. If companies can't find workers, it's their fault.

  242. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I'd like to see the original poster address some of the questions I've asked here - both above and below.

  243. Anonymous

    Same

  244. Anonymous

    Great reviews

  245. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    Are you the original poster?

    Where are you posting your positions? What are your requirements? Does your pay range reflect the requirements? You're interviewing people virtually, can the position be done remotely? It would greatly expand your talent pool.

    Is there any particular reason you think you're not getting more on-target candidates?

  246. Cynthia (Van Syoc) Kendall

    Wow! Just wow! I have been turned down for jobs because I was a long term temp, by choice. I had 1.5 hour commute each way and a farm to run. I also have an excellent attendance record despite all of this.

  247. scorpio229

    You must be 'Superwoman or something!

  248. JoAnn

    Well here we go again, at the mercy of 1 persons perceived opinion of someone, and your future hangs on their opinion, UGH. I have Tons of reverse examples for you, but one I will say, is an HR recruiter called my husband for a position. Needleless to say (gasp) he was working and asked if they can schedule a time to speak, since right then was not a good time. Of course she took offense to this and didn't call back to schedule the time with him. This was a Maintenance position at a well known hospital outside of Philadelphia. So, please stop placing blame on the candidates and being so inconsiderate that you come to a forum to ridicule candidates. (yes I'm Aghast, as well)

  249. Anonymous

    I'm not ridiculing candidates but seeking opinions from other hiring managers. I'm also not placing blame on candidates. You sound very bitter and angry. Sounds like you're the one coming to a forum to ridicule hiring managers because of an unfortunate experience your husband had with a recruiter.

  250. Anonymous

    Unfortunately a lot of recruiters are like this. I've yet to find a good one.

  251. Anonymous

    As a fellow Recruiter, I understand the pains of both the candidates and Recruiters. Covid was TOUGH on everyone and the candidates I have been coming across are less than stellar but the hiring managers are even worse.

    They are looking for perfection where it does not exist. Empathy goes a long way but so does professionalism. It is not easy to be in either position.

  252. Creence Lin

    It sounds like the third candidate may have been accustomed to working in person and could have been an excellent admin, but lacked in zoom skills. A filthy room can easily be fixed with zoom backgrounds so I would not count that against a candidate, and in fact some compassion should be in order during the pandemic as people may have had to cut back or lost their cleaning services, had extra responsibilities during the pandemic such as homeschooling children, etc. Of course just walking away while you were talking does not demonstrate the best social awareness nor zoom etiquette, but some things can be easily learned. I am not saying that social faux pas should be overlooked, but if that candidate otherwise stood out to you, and it was just an issue of learning to juggle zoom in the pandemic then that candidate may be worth further evaluation rather than automatically be ruled out.

  253. Anonymous

    Nothing about the candidate stood out. No way would I consider a candidate who displayed such rude and tacky behavior. I'm trying to fill a job not a seat in school. Its not my job to teach basic corporate etiquette.

  254. Anonymous

    “Basic corporate etiquette” can vary quite a bit, depending on the organization. It might not be your job to teach this, but communicating your expectations to candidates before the interview could end up saving you from wasting your time.

  255. Creence Lin

    I completely understand your decision to not hire this candidate if nothing stood out and you felt like they were rude. But from my perspective: Earlier in my career like 15 years ago, I once inadvertently displayed what was perceived as "rude and tacky behavior" even though I meant well but quickly learned. I was chatting with a co-worker about work related stuff via instant messaging/chat. My boss came to my desk to ask me a question and without saying anything, I turned around to type "brb" to the person I was chatting with and then returned to give my boss my full attention. My boss got mad that I was chatting while he was talking and I had to explain the situation to him. But all it took was one conversation to fix the issue and now I remember to never not say anything before leaving. Considering that I was at that company for 7.5 years, I would say I was competent in other areas of my job., not a bottom of the barrel employee.
    Everyone has development areas and I actually think that "basic corporate etiquette" and EQ are often not taught in many school curriculums. While I am not saying that you should hire that candidate, I can understand how that person might not be accustomed to dealing with home distractions if they are used to working in an office.

  256. Chriscodyc1

    An interview, even via Zoom or phone, is the time to put your best foot forward. Asking about what drugs are screened for is not a good sign. I understand where this hiring manager is coming from in many ways. I have hired in the past individuals who had no skill with Excel or Word and offered to have them take classes/tutorials/one on one training and learn it on the job only to be told they didn’t want to learn it. I have overlooked clothes worn to an interview because I have been in a position of wearing the same skirt with the same two shirts for years but I kept them clean and ironed. I think what is frustrating is giving an advance to a new hire because they need the $$ for rent/food/child care/clothes etc and we want to assist, to have the new hire disappear. Two sides to every story. Our company is trying to work with people and their needs but interviewees should try to meet at least halfway.

  257. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Serious question: why is asking about drug screening a bad sign? It’s not unreasonable that the candidate would want to know if they’ll be disqualified from the job before they waste time pursuing it. Plenty of OTC and prescription drugs show up in drug tests. Some jobs even still test for THC in states where it’s legal. I can’t see how the fact that the candidate cared to confirm this step in the process before proceeding is a bad thing.

  258. Chriscodyc1

    Our worker’s compensation insurance requires drug screening. I have had employees go outside on their breaks and come back in smelling of weed and unable to focus. I sent them home before they got hurt or pulled over. I have other employees who have had spinal surgery, cancer and anxiety who needed some medicinal aid. They brought documentation even though we didn’t require it. They usually have aids without THC but even the one who splits up a Percocet to get through the day because the pain from a botched surgery is so bad is able to do stellar work. When someone is interviewing with me and asks what drugs are screened for and they are unkempt, late, listless and not engaging in the interview, that tells me more than their drug test does.

  259. scorpio229

    Recently, an interviewer called me and he sounded nice . He told me to simply stop by so we could have an interview. Frankly, I was surprised by his , 'oh , just stop by ', type of mentality. This led me to think that he was not really hiring for authentic employees, but rather those who may be getting screened (and I could be right or wrong here) to be future seers . It made me question whether I would be lured in, given a sales pitch, then paying him for the opportunity to work at the company.

    I really have a difficult time determining if a legitimate job is being offered, or if hiring personnel (are these people actors or military?) are being positioned at various venues to 'brand ' or 'claim' their followers. It is frustrating. I have also wondered if this COVID-19 episode is some sort of redistribution of intellectual, physical, and financial property (when do we wake up from all of this?).

    I did return this person's call ; however, the individual never called me back. I then concluded that there was something going on there that may not be too ethical or I simply was not the type of person he sought (even though I have experience in this endeavor. ). So, all I can do is keep trying.

    If individuals continue to encounter so-called job opportunities and fake offers, then they may start not to care about how he/she presents himself or herself to a potential employer. I guess you get what you pay for or what you place a premium upon in the end.

  260. Anonymous

    You dodged a bullet. It could have been a scam.

  261. Laurie Gehris Bilheimer

    As a hiring manager of a small company, I can say that it may not always be a scam. I know in our case, we are small enough that hiring managers are also filling the roles of other positions. We wear lots of hats and sometimes the interviewing process gets away from us, because taking care of the customers comes first. Unfortunatly that also means we sometimes lose good potential candidates, because they went elsewhere. I always try to explain this to people that are interviewed, so they know it could take a while. It is just as frustrating on our end to not really have the time to do a task that ultimately would help us. It's a vicious cycle.

  262. Anonymous

    I am clearly of a different era. We showed up, on time, dressed for the job, prepared for the interview. Zoom HAS been a learning experience, but who would ever walk away while they're talking to someone? In person OR online? And making your bed is not that difficult, if you know it will be in the background of your interview. Yes, people are human, and the Pandemic has been hard on anyone, but what I'm hearing here is people who are making zero effort, expect to be given the job, and a prize for showing up!

  263. Anonymous

    Amen!!!!

    I worked with a woman that wanted my job because she was bored (but didn't want to learn anything). Told me I didn't deserve my job after she was there a week because I didn't have a BF.

    She's long gone.

  264. Anonymous

    All I can assume is that this is great for the rest of us professionals who hold ourselves to a standard that engenders a feeling of quality, competence and etiquette.

  265. Anonymous

    One would assume that much, that people that do have a strong work ethic, effective and impressive business writing skills and take the initiative would have an advantage and be in demand...but I experienced the opposite...after I got laid off in late 2020....this after I barely took anytime off (I am blessed with great health), and arrived to work on time, very punctual by nature. Managers wouldn't know an articulate well-rounded applicant if they had a HUGE sign on their forehead!!

  266. Anonymous

    Question for hiring managers... I'm in the US under a visa, I have my EAD and I fully experience and qualified. Is it true that companies avoid people under a visa with EAD? If so, why is that?

  267. Deb Allen

    Some companies may not be familiar with the requirements around VISA processes. You may need to add a line to your resume that explains your authorization status.

  268. Anonymous

    Sponsoring requires additional budget that the employer might not be prepared for. Also, depending on the paperwork requirements, sometimes it takes months before a new hire can get started while most new hires can start in 2-3 weeks.

  269. Pebbles

    It can be months and it can be very costly. Very.
    When budgets are tight (even when the salary is good) and we need someone right away, it becomes prohibitive.

    I’d interviewed a candidate who was pretty good. He wasn’t going to be available for at least 4 months and he required sponsorship. I needed someone sooner than 4 months, and I didn’t feel comfortable making that kind of investment. Everyone is an unknown, even candidates who interview well.

  270. Christina Campion

    I'm not a hiring manager (anymore), but I did work on an EAD and then on a green card before I naturalized. I found that being open and explaining that no, I didn't need sponsorship, and the I-9 process was just as easy as it I were a citizen was helpful. A lot of smaller companies have never dealt with it before, so showing them it was no big deal seemed to make the difference.

  271. Laurie Gehris Bilheimer

    I am a hiring manager. This is not a new problem, I have seen this kind of thing for several years now. I recieved a resume one time for a Customer Service position where the only work experience listed was babysitting. No other details were given. I understand this was probably someone right out of high school, but you still have to say something more than babysitting. Early this year I received a resume that under job experience, the person actually listed a job and in the details explained that for this job he worked under the table, so there would be no way to verify this job. I blame the education system for part of this. Young adults in high school are not taught how to complete a resume or how to interview for a job. The last Customer Service position we filled, we had gone through several hundred resumes, before finding a handful of people to interview. Your not alone with scrapping the bottom of the pot. Nobody wants to work anymore and when they do they salary expectations are off the charts.

  272. Anonymous

    Several HUNDRED resumes and only a handful of qualified applicants?? Sounds like your company isn’t advertising properly.

  273. Anonymous

    To be fair, I graduated two decades ago and learned nothing about how to apply for a job. My mother graduated four decades ago and also learned nothing about how to apply for a job.

    I think the idea that no one wants to work anymore is exaggerated. I agree that many roles are difficult to fill with good staff, but I think it’s also a sign of the times. I have a relative who keeps complaining that he can’t find good people and that good people quit after a year — but he offers no benefits, he can’t compete in pay with larger companies, and there isn’t room for growth. I’m not sure why he expects people to want to be loyal to his business.

  274. Anonymous

    Employers: People don't want to work and aren't loyal.

    Also employers: Please provide a detailed resume. We'd like for you to have a graduate degree. We'll pay you $9.50/hour to work the drive thru at our restaurant.

  275. Anonymous

    Was it listed as an entry level position? If so, it shouldn't require experience. When you hire people for entry level positions it means you intend to offer some kind of training. If you want people to have skills and experience then it is a mid-level position and you should be prepared to compensate accordingly.

  276. Anonymous

    No it was not

  277. Anonymous

    Well, customer service jobs are hard to fill because it takes a special person to put up with customers. Especially if they are not being compensated well.

    As a learning tool for others, what would you have wanted to see on that young lady’s resume? If her only work experience is babysitting, what else would you suggest she add?

  278. Chriscodyc1

    When babysitting was my only “job” experience, I included letters from the parents attesting to my punctuality, responsibility, ability to follow instructions left by parents and how I would go above and beyond beyond by engaging the children in activities and not just put them off to the side while I was on phone with my friends. I was able to get my very first “real” job at the local bank part-time in high school as a senior in their customer service department.

  279. Laurie Gehris Bilheimer

    I would have liked some detail. Babysitting is an important job just like many others (no job is too menial to have a job description). She could have listed the duties a typical day entailed. Making meals, tutoring with school work, were any of the children special needs, what creative activities did she do with the kids, was she responsible for getting them on and off the school bus. Every job has details and responsabilities. Just saying that you babysat tells me nothing about your capabilities. Being creative with describing that job would have shown that this person could be detail oriented. It would have also shown communication skills, which happens to be a key skill for customer service. Every job that exists is technically customer service. In this case a babysitter has two sets of customers, the parents and the children. How did she serve the parents, how did she serve the children? Where did she go above and beyond to make her clients happy? Again I don't blame this person, these young people are not given the tools that they need in High School. They are not taught how to do these things and depending on the generation that their parents are from, their parents may not have had to deal with resumes themselves to even be able to help them. Other tips I would give to people that are creating resumes would be to spell check, have someone else review your resume for content, grammer, layout. For young people right out of high school, if you don't have much work experience, list activities that you participated in during high school, list community service, commities you served on whether it be in your community, at your church or at your school. All these things show initiative. Brag yourself up, but don't go overboard. I received a resume one time where the person stated in their opening statement that they were great with communication especially written communication and then throughout the resume there were spelling errors, miss use of grammer, incomplete sentences, use of slang words, etc... Don't call out a skill and then not be able to back it up. I will admit, I had help to create my first resume. I worked for a company right out of high school. I was there 33 years and then they closed the plant I worked for. When I got that job, resumes were for elite jobs like managers, supervisors, CEO's...Entry level jobs were obtained by filling out a job application. I did a lot of research to make sure that my resume was prepared properly. Not too long, not to short, contained all the important details of my career. It's ok to ask for help. Sorry for the long post, I am hoping my suggestions can help someone that is looking for work. It is a tough market these days.

  280. Anonymous

    These are good details. Thank you for the clarification.

    Any jobseeker should be able to google (or other preferred search engine) for advice on resume writing. Even MS Word has several built-in templates. Anyone who can’t put in that level of effort probably doesn’t want a job very much.

  281. Lori Drapeau

    I disagree that schools are not teaching about resumes and interviewing. My daughters high school required them, as part of their graduation requirement, to write a resume and then had professional parent volunteers come in and interview them. They had to dress appropriately and conduct themselves as if they were going to an actual interview. Feedback was provided and it allowed them to understand the process. It was invaluable to my oldest daughter who chose to go to trade school.

  282. Brown’s Pond

    While that is awesome her school did that, it’s also the minority not the majority of schools especially public ones

  283. Anonymous

    A friend of mine in California was in Target one night. A customer in front of her was complaining to the cashier that teachers don't teach cursive handwriting any more. The woman looked at my friend, trying to solicit agreement. My friend replied, "Well, my third graders who spent about 30 minutes doing cursive handwriting exercises involving the letter J this morning would beg to differ. But go on..."

  284. Anonymous

    NO. People WANT to work. They just don't want to work for terrible pay and toxic management.

  285. Natalia

    Wow! Just shocked reading this

  286. Anonymous

    I'm not shocked :( I wish I was!

    I interviewed people this summer and it was horrible. It's a great job (accounting) for the right person and pay was great considering.... But those I interviewed: many either wanted the job "because unemployment ended and the HAVE to do something" or "need the bank loan so working three weeks" or whatever. It was a joke and these were the QUALIFICATIONS people (our ad was specific)

  287. Anonymous

    *qualified

  288. Natalia

    Really?? I'm curious, they actually say this in the interview? Does this come up when asking them why they're interested in the role?

  289. Dagney Taggart

    If your position is in the admin/customer service field and remote, I am certainly looking. I dress well and I know things.

  290. Anonymous

    Fodder for an opinion piece about interviewing etiquette and tips? I think the message most comments are saying is that you can look put together without spending money. You can look professional even in a t-shirt by making sure your camera is above the stained armpits; that your hair is pulled back or tucked behind your ears, if you don't have a brush; that your bed is made if you don't have another space for your computer; and that you put your best behavioural effort into the interview (hopefully discussion) itself.

    What's tricky is the paradox of interviewing: Interviewees are afraid to put anything personal out there that makes them vulnerable; HR/recruiters aren't supposed to ask personal questions.

    I can empathise with both interviewees and HR/recruiters. Both are playing a game with mostly vague and similar job descriptions (honestly, how often have you read a job description that wow'd you, or where you clearly understood every single point?), and in this era of career switching or taking a job just to live, there are so many variables involved. If we think about our hiring system, based on a 2-page or shorter resume and a 30 min zoom interview. It's all about first impressions. And now in these times, a bit of understanding. Seems like it's also time to change the interview/hiring process as well.

  291. Anonymous

    Thank YOU for posting this . It doesn't take much to work with what you have . Many of us had to do it when we were high school or college grads with limited resources for in Person interviews . Tired of hearing excuses .

  292. Julia Piras

    Most hiring managers are biased so they end up excluding valuable candidates.
    I know at least 10 individuals who are professional adept with the most can-do and positive attitude at work . Including myself.
    Also , diversity isn’t a topic of yesterday . It is still quite relevant .

  293. scorpio229

    Or, they have to select applicants (for the most part) from a pre-selected pool. An economic curse, I surmise. But, what can people do? Maybe they are on some sort of punishment as well.

  294. Anonymous

    Exactly! If a hiring manager hires a decent person, it may be competition for them! So the smart and experienced are not qualified.

    I hate to say it, but....

  295. Sandra Langston

    I am going to say this, and will date myself when I do. People do not care! Some of us were brought up on the universe of respect, loyalty, and tem building. Heck, a lot of people have no idea what that is? I personally have struggled through scams, zooms, idiot interviewers, and lies about everything from hours to pay. I have decided that as long as people hire those who do not care, then those people will quit and get another job a lot quicker than those who have standards. So I guess therein lies the rub so to speak. I guess the personality of the company has to win somehow because those of us who dress for a zoom call, are considered nuts!

  296. Anonymous

    I’ve actually come to view over-emphasis on “loyalty” to be a red flag. If you’re doing the right thing & Im doing the right thing, we align and all is good, loyalty is automatic.

    When loyalty is a priority, that means if you’re not doing the right thing, I’m supposed to realign myself out of loyalty.

  297. Anonymous

    Agree about people not caring anymore. They believe the hype that you can do what you want to do and still be hired .

  298. kay Jack

    Sandra , I am on the same page as you are . I think someone who can't put themselves together from the waist up from home doesn't really want the job . It is shocking at how many defend this behavior .

  299. Beckie Hinze

    You need to eventually write a book!! I think I have seen it all - but the camera story.... If dress were the only issue, I would hire them - and discuss the dress expectations for the job. Then if they are still not able to dress professionally - I would continue to talk with them about it. Keep short accounts - they will eventually come around if you are a caring manager.

  300. scorpio229

    Perhaps many of us simply cannot afford to "Dress for Success" these days. Everything is so expensive now.

  301. Anonymous

    And let’s be honest, many of us have gained weight over the course of the pandemic. Perhaps someone’s pre-pandemic professional clothing doesn’t fit any more.

    Do we really expect people to go out and buy new clothing just for Zoom interviewing when employers routinely ghost on candidates, bait-and-switch positions, etc?

  302. Anonymous

    There’s a difference between illl-fitting clothes that signify a bit of a weight gain over the past year or two and sloppy, “I woke up like this” attire an interview. I think that’s what the OP was meaning to convey.

  303. kay Jack

    Agreed. It is so easy to put on a decent top or shirt and sit in front of a computer . They can have on shorts or sweats at the bottom ?If you looked like you rolled out the bed , you probably don't want the job .

  304. kay Jack

    Can they at least get a presentable top or shirt ? It's virtual via Zoom . If a person can put in that little effort , they probably don't want the job .

  305. Anonymous

    There are plenty of lower priced retailers with office appropriate attire . With a little style sense , a nice work wardrobe can be put together with minimal funds .

  306. kay Jack

    Good luck with telling someone how to dress after they get the job. They will run to HR and complain.

  307. Anonymous

    Meanwhile, I’ve been applying to jobs for close to two years and barely get any interviews. I’m definitely much more of a catch than what you have been seeing lol. There are good candidates out there but we’re the ones not getting called for some reason.

    Does the position you are hiring for pay a particularly low wage? That could also be why you are getting bottom of the barrel. Fair livable wages and good benefits are the standard now.

  308. Anonymous

    I would think it is the ATS "discriminating" against you for having been out of employment for two years. Maybe employers should reconsider their criteria and fix their ATS so that people are evaluated based on their skill and not based on how long their gap is.

  309. Anonymous

    Wow! I've been looking and I might get 1 or 2 interviews and then they ghost on me or tell me nothing or I'm asking for too much $$ . Well if companies want great talent they need to pay for it. I have many years of experience as an EA and it's insulting when a company ghosts on you or won't pay.

    Not sure why that person showed up to an interview that way...I mean goodness if you want the job dress for it even if it's a virtual interview.

  310. Anonymous

    I am genuinely curious about this idea because I keep encountering it. Most people that I know on unemployment are itching to get off unemployment and return to benefits, better pay, etc. I mean on unemployment with my state, I would be capped at federal poverty level wages (despite my pay for my job being significantly higher than that) and would only be eligible for a limited number of weeks. People aren't champing at the bit to stay on unemployment in my state, which has an unemployment rate of 3.6%. (Although, we did have about 280K lose unemployment benefits at the end of June, so there's no real count of how many of those folks are still out of the job market).

  311. Anonymous

    Can I just say how much I appreciate that someone actually uses champing at the bit properly?

  312. Vena Moore

    My two cents:

    People tend to believe that employers are fair and just but that isn't the case. They can be biased just as any individual. They routinely pass on people if they aren't white, if they aren't men, if they're older than 40 or if they have a visible disability. I suspect that a fraction of these people you're passing on are qualified people in marginalized groups. Since they don't fit the aesthetic of the white, male, able-bodied ideal employee, your company would rather cling to an paradigm that doesn't work anymore than adapt in order to compete.

    Also, it's possible that the position your company is posting doesn't pay a living wage. The pandemic forced many people to re-evaluate their lives and what they want out of their working lives. And they're telling employers loud and clear that they want to be treated with dignity and respect, as well as to be paid fairly. I don't buy the narrative that people are lazy and don't want to work. As I'm a Black woman, that mindset comes off as racist and classist to me. People do want to work. But they don't want to be discriminated against because of their skin color. They don't want to work in toxic environments where they are mistreated. And they want to earn a living wage.

  313. Susan L H Smith

    I see so many red flags among these candidates, not as much about proper office attire, everything to do with attitude, manners and qualifications. I'd be interested to read your job description, know more about your company, and why candidates are considered 'bottom of the barrel'.

  314. Anonymous

    Helped my daughter (a millenial) apply for a new job and was surprised at how quickly she became frustrated with the electronic application system. She proceeded to handle it exactly how my husband (a boomer) does, which is to get sloppy on the details - the exact opposite of how she conducts herself on the job. I was a little shocked. We worked through the job description and pinpointed how her previous experience was a match for the new job requirements (she was excited about the opportunity even before we did that and much more confident afterwards). She's exceedingly qualified for the position, but I worry that her frustration with the process will damage her ability to show to best advantage. This wasn't an issue in her job history because she's been with the same company since high school and promoted or invited to apply for all of the positions she's had since the beginning. This will certainly lead me to evaluate future applications a little differently the next time I hire a new employee.

  315. Anonymous

    I'm also a millennial and it has been very frustrating for me as well. A lot of entry level jobs require experience. How exactly are we supposed to gain experience if no one will take a chance on us?

  316. Sheila Coleman

    Remember, experience is not exactly a 'job'. Think what you have done that pertains to the position request. School? Church? Have you done any volunteer work? Before i was hired at the hospital, I volunteered a couple of hours per week - I sat in the Mammography office and assisted clients as they came in for a scan, showed them the room got a gown and asked if I could help. COVID has changed a few things but if you just look at what you have done in school or anything, USE it! Good luck!

  317. Kathy

    Often time when a job posting specifies 'entry level' it really means that what they only want to pay an entry level rate. When they ask for 5 years experience and specify entry level run from this job. They are looking for a highly skilled person that they can pay a minimal rate.

  318. Anonymous

    This is not new . I am Generation X and we had to take jobs that were not in our major.in order to.gain work experience after college . Then we were able to get jobs in our fields .

  319. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    You should also take a look at your ATS. If I've been looking at jobs/applying for a while in the evening after my real job, there are certain positions I click on and I just groan when I see what ATS they're using (including the one I'm currently using from the user side).

    There are ATS systems that I KNOW before I do one single thing, that will make me upload my resume - then screw up the parsing - and I will have to manually go in and paste every single one of my company names, titles and experiences. Taleo - I'm looking at you.

    And then you click on some others, like lever or greenhouse, and you upload your resume, it populates most of it for you of the one page application for you, you click on a couple of answers and you're done.

    If I've been at it long enough and I'm cranky enough, I'll just say forget it - and just exit out of a really frustrating application process.

  320. Anonymous

    We are currently looking for a candidate for my office. Two years ago when the posting ran, we received 26 applicants. This time, eight! Only one had the qualifications I was looking for, and after he agreed to the interview, we waited for him to show up. After two minutes, I asked the committee chair to reach out, when he promptly withdrew his application. Out of the 8 applicants, we interview three people. They don't have experience with an internal survey tool we use, but have other qualifications that I hope are beneficial to my office. I don't make the final decision, so I hope one of them sparks the final hiring committee. No one wants to work anymore, and candidates are few. It's very frustrating.

  321. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    It's not that no one wants to work anymore, it's that no one wants to be economically exploited anymore. Big difference. Feel free to link us to the job posting if you'd like feedback as to why you may not be getting more applicants.

  322. Anonymous

    exactly!!!

  323. Anonymous

    1. We've had a population decline since the late 60s - so we simply don't have enough people to fill open positions
    2. After years of economic upheavals many workers have left the traditional workplace for the gig economy where they make more money and have control over their work hours and conditions.

    Saying "no one wants to work anymore" is a cop-out - the fact is that for the first time in decades employees have a plethora of opportunities. Moreover, workers who have been around a bit either have been through lay-offs, restructurings, or losing their jobs to automation - if anything they are finding new and better (more stable) ways to work, particularly for themselves in the gig economy. Employers are going to have to find a way to evolve and compete with a variety of factors and reevaluate if their standards are too high for the job (ie: the entry-level job that requires a bachelors degree and 5 years of experience) which ends up excluding potential employees - quit being lazy by blaming job seekers lack of ambition because you're not happy with what's showing up, figure out how to innovate and refill that pipeline.

  324. Anonymous

    Exactly! Also, we've been telling people for decades that they have to graduate from college to find a good job, so in theory there would be fewer with only high school educations. The best paying jobs for those people would not be admin jobs. They would be in construction, transportation, or the trades.

  325. Anonymous

    Along those lines is almost like the Bachelors degree became the new high school diploma in the eyes of employers - thus they inflated the necessary credentials for entry-level jobs (ie: secretary/admin assistant).

  326. Anonymous

    Totally agree with you! HR has become so lazy, they rely on ATS, the job descriptions are canned with employers looking for "unicorn" candidate at not so competitive wage!

    Why not hire people with the right attitude and then put in the effort to train people? How is that for being lazy!

    Of course, there are lazy people out there, but there are a lot more people who want to work and are just hoping they would be given an opportunity to prove themselves. And not just at a minimum wage, but a living wage.

  327. Kathy

    Expecting your preferred candidate to have the exact experience with your internal survey tool seems ludicrous.

    Look for a well rounded person who can learn the tool.

  328. Anonymous

    YES THANK YOU!!!!!

    Hey employers, are you listening????

  329. Anonymous

    Many want to work, many do not. Many, including myself, won't work for dirt and many want the moon and the earth while they do nothing; entitled

    I interviewed a lady for an admin/accounting role and asked her why she wanted the job. (I assumed she liked accounting, or whatever.... About 99% of reasonable answers would have been ok)

    Her response: 'unemployment is running out and I no longer have a free ride to be lazy'.

    Needless to say.... I didn't hire her.

    We later found a temp (TTH) but she kept calling in. She also lashed out at me because she wanted MY job and told me I wasn't good enough at it.

    Thing is, if she came to work and worked hard, maybe she could have done well enough to learn it (I was her supervisor). Instead, EVERY DAY for her was a crisis when she DID show up. The third time she called in within three weeks, we called the temp office.

    I don't think it's fair to say no one wants to work. But I DO think the work ethic of many isn't the same as has been pre-covid

  330. Anonymous

    That's weird, where I just got a remote full time job working from home, with full benefits, I was told they had over 900 applicants for 1 opening. Now they narrowed it down to only 275 were screened and had the skills they were looking for but they were asking everyone to do an initial video interview and skills assessment, whether they were qualified or not. This is a Fortune 500 company. I kept thinking to myself, what's the point? People want to work. We are out here applying.

  331. Anonymous

    My thoughts exactly

  332. Stephanie F, MSHRM

    I myself work in Higher Ed and we are experiencing this from all, but especially students.
    I assume they want to work remote, but agree with others based on the past year and a half everyone has had.
    I was looking for a student employee and contacted a student who applied to the job themselves. I was calling to schedule a brief interview and she told me she needed to ask her mom.

  333. Anonymous

    This new generation has it made . I had to be a 18 year old college student handling everything on my own .

  334. Anonymous

    Or maybe just that candidate did. There are plenty in this (and every) generation who have to work for what’s they get.

  335. Anonymous

    Well that is always nice to see because there is alot of parental handholding out there .

  336. Stephanie F, MSHRM

    Indeed there is. I have had parents call asking the status of their kid's applications. I tell them to have the student call.
    We need to teach them to be self-sufficient. It's okay to help them, but not do it for them.

  337. Anonymous

    You see a lot of helicopter parenting. I didn't recognize this when I married my husband. He was 8 years older than myself and I realized too late he was never allowed to make any decisions for himself. If that wasn't bad enough, his mother thought she could treat me the same way. His employer wanted him to work a weekend, then changed their minds at the last minute. His mother actually called his employer and then him, and accused him if LYING to HER! She expected him to work for his parents every single weekend. Needless to say, we are now divorced. AVOID young adults who have to ask mommy permission for work issues. My mom never ever interfered with my jobs.

  338. Anonymous

    I believe those who put on minimal effort don't want the job .

  339. Cynthia (Van Syoc) Kendall

    I am at the opposite end of the issue. I am an administrative assistant to the president of my company. We are closing down and I am trying to find work. I am in a rural area so I am searching for remote jobs. I do not have a college degree and I have been turned down more times than I can count. My company has all but closed down it's operations as we finish selling off the various items. I handled the sale of one division to another company for my employer. I did well. My employer is very pleased with all of my work.

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