Undocumented Labor!

114 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 8,2021 at 1:32PM UTC

   I've seen this happen quite often sadly. That's why the topic of working only the hours you are paid seems to be so prevalent (at least on my LinkedIn and with other professionals I talk with).

   A lot of companies will expect over time without paying for it. It was something I asked in all of my interviews what the expectations were outside of work hours.

   Setting boundaries for your hours is important. Do you have a contract? Can you look at that and then use that as a conversation starter with your supervisor/boss? Does it state you need to work between certain hours or just 7.5? I know people who have 8 hours days but do 4 early in the morning and 4 late a night due to the nature of their work.

   You need to research though you company policies, contracts, etc. If it is expected that you work for longer than 7.5 hours you can always try to negotiate a higher pay or change in workload but look into your At Will laws in your state before you do any of that as well. You don't want to lose your job without a plan for the future.

2. AnonymousOctober 8,2021 at 2:24PM UTC

   Sounds complicated and a bit exploitative on the part of your company. Be sure to keep track of your actual hours worked vs 7.5/day, and use that information to your advantage in your evaluation.

3. AnonymousOctober 8,2021 at 6:37PM UTC

   Good point. The issue is that this information /additional work hours are not being captured when it comes to reviews, bonuses, and promotions.

4. Kristie WhiteOctober 8,2021 at 3:15PM UTC

   Salaried positions are supposed to be used for management or roles paid for producing results. That’s why your hours are not important, it’s about your results. Sadly, companies will sometimes use this method of Comp to avoid overtime which means the job may not qualify as a role that should be salaried. But the Dept of Labor isn’t going to know anything about it until someone reports it. If this company is collecting timesheets that misrepresent your worked hours, I would be asking myself “why”? Is this documentation to use if they are sued? The timesheets are fraudulent so how could they be useful? Your word against theirs?

5. Emmy BemmyOctober 8,2021 at 4:01PM UTC

   We have to submit a timesheet, as an exempt employee that works more than 40/week, but the expectation is that it is set for 8 hrs/day (not sure why they told you 7.5, unless they have you set up as hrly employees in the payroll system, and have calculated your hourly rate excluding lunch). They are likely not really using this to track the time that you work, but it is a constraint in the payroll system. I don't think that is a big deal by itself.

   That said, there are companies/industries that have faced lawsuits b/c they converted hourly-type tasks to exempt employees in an effort not to pay overtime. In many cases those lawsuits were won. If your work is very "transactional based" they might be doing something sketchy.

6. AnonymousOctober 8,2021 at 6:29PM UTC

   It could depend on the contract with the company...for instance I am contracted to work 37.5 hours a week. I get paid for 37.5 hours a week not 40 hours.

7. Emmy BemmyOctober 9,2021 at 1:25AM UTC

   Are you outside the US? It is rare for an exempt employee to have an hours-based contract in the US unless they are union.

8. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:13PM UTC

   I am not I am in Indiana.

   I don't get paid for going over those hours similar to the original poster does not but when I was hired in they said 37.5 hours a week is what you should work and it is in both my offer letter and on my payroll each week month.

9. Emmy BemmyOctober 12,2021 at 5:28AM UTC

   Wow, I have never seen that, myself! I think any time I have ever seen hours mentioned, it is ".... at least 40 hrs per week".

10. AnonymousOctober 8,2021 at 6:26PM UTC

    This is free work.

    You can call your local state labor board to discuss next steps. There are a few forms you can file to request a labor practice investigation.

11. AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 12:57PM UTC

    She’s salaried, extra hours are part of what she signed up fir when she accepted the job. Going to the labor board is going to fast track her demise.

12. AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 1:25PM UTC

    Nope. Salaried persons may collect OT if the hours are consistently required and the company is classifying the job as salaried to get around paying OT. Also she and her coworker are requested to falsify the number of hours actually worked and cap the recorded hours at 7.5 which is illegal. Even if you are not paid IT, requesting the hours be falsely recorded is illegal. Even when it is an accounting issue. The company must record the capped number of hours as "paid" wages and additional hours as "unpaid" wages. You don't request that unpaid wages not be recorded.

13. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 12:40PM UTC

    How does this work if you’re a traveling salesperson? I know I spend sometimes 6 days a week in a different market. Does that mean I should be compensated for my hours at work and mealtimes with colleagues/customers? If so, I should be able to retire in another 7 years or so.

14. AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 9:51AM UTC

    I worked in a place that was required 45 hrs weekly and NO overtime.

    Employer's excuse: we are a professional organization. I only lasted 8 months due to their toxicity. I took the job at the time as I was desperate

15. AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 12:30PM UTC

    Very odd/interesting. If you record 5 hours do you get paid less? In some states it’s illegal not to pay for over time at certain exempt levels (non-manager). Document your time and responses to any questions you have about overtime. You have a right to ask and not be penalized.

16. Bonnie DilberOctober 9,2021 at 12:50PM UTC

    Have you asked why you submit hours and why the cap exists?
    Technically, it's not exploiting your work or free labor - you're salaried so that does mean you are expected to work more hours at times (and also that less is ok if your work is getting done!)
    I think the question there is: do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do and what's expected if you? If the answer is no, then that's the thing to tackle regardless of the timesheet expectations in my opinion.
    We submit hours at work even though we're salaried - it's for reasons like tracking capacity and ensuring there's equity across teams, levels, etc. and also because we're a non-profit and some hours for individuals is tracked or grants and such. If this is similar, maybe they can only attribute 37.5 hours/week/employee so by capping hours, they can get your entire salary grant-funded vs like 80% of your salary if you entered your true hours.
    Maybe there have been complaints so your manager wants to hide how much work people are doing so they don't get in trouble.
    It could be a way to justify keeping salaried low - like if they compare hourly rates for exempt vs non-exempt, putting in "real" hours worked could show that exempt employees (who are typically in higher paid roles) are actually being paid less per hour and cause for a push to increase compensation.
    I would ask HR about this to understand why the expectation exists for timesheets and a cap on hours listed and then go from there.
    But again, I'd honestly center on whether your comp is fair for what's expected - if it is, awesome, I wouldn't stress about timesheets. If it's not, then regardless of what timesheets show, I'd want to have that conversation with HR/your boss.

17. AnonymousOctober 9,2021 at 2:35PM UTC

    HR here. As a salaried employee, you're paid to do a job, not the specific hours you work. It might be the time management system your company uses. Does your manager ever ask you about what you put on your time sheet? If not, then you're doing it merely to fulfill a business process.

18. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:19AM UTC

    No you are salaried. If you don't want to work late, then don't. You are not being unpaid, but you are being overworked. Document your hours separately and when it comes to review time request to be compensated for this.

19. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:44AM UTC

    I am not asking to be paid overtime, but only for recognition or record of the ACTUAL hours worked. Yes, I do feel overworked.

20. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 3:42AM UTC

    This happens routinely where I work. And yes, is probably illegal. The problem is that I have a crushing amount of work. And if I say anything, which I have, I get a response like, "well, you must have poor time management skills to not get your work done in 40 hours.".,

    I need my job. So, 60 hours a week it is.

21. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 12:42PM UTC

    Gah! Same!!! I tried talking to my supervisors about how I was working 12-16 hours everyday and on the weekends (getting paid for 40 hours) and they just blamed me and said I didn’t even have half the amount of work I should have.

22. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:26AM UTC

    Yes. I may stay an hour or so..but otherwise, forget it. I won't give up weekends or be a slave to this job. They won't be able to terminate me.

23. DeeOctober 10,2021 at 10:59AM UTC

    Can you take time in leui and document the late night's work onto the next day instead (even noting it is TIL)?

24. Vicky DavisOctober 10,2021 at 12:31PM UTC

    I had a job like that once as well. It was hourly, not salary. All the missed lunches and late evenings, we were not allowed to document any OT. I recently accepted a position (verbally) still doing background checks etc, and that was the one question I made sure I was clear on!

25. Paula Manczuk-HannayOctober 10,2021 at 12:37PM UTC

    Are you in an exempt position? If so, then it’s legal and not uncommon. If you you are exempt, you are compensated to do a job regardless of the hours it takes to do it. Unfortunately, most employers take advantage of this and overwork their staff. I am surprised they have you tracking your hours, though.

26. Rachel PaluchOctober 10,2021 at 12:37PM UTC

    I worked at a job that during certain times of the year I worked well in excess of 60 hours. I came in early and stayed late - whatever it took to get the job done and avoid being buried. I was originally hired into a salaried position. One day the owner asked me to lunch and presented me with a contract that stated I was to immediately begin to use the time clock for beginning/ending of day as well as no more than two 15 minute breaks and one 30 minute lunch. I was to agree to be paid straight time up to 60 hours per week and it would flip to salary if my week exceeded that. As soon as the business closed that day I sent a letter of resignation - effective immediately.

27. Lisa Fried-GrodinOctober 10,2021 at 12:38PM UTC

    I'm an attorney and have seen instances where an employee is salaried but not properly classified as exempt from overtime. Exempt status is based on your duties and if you meet a minimal salary threshold set by the government. You should talk to the Department of Labor or an attorney to see if you are properly classified.

28. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 12:46PM UTC

    Yeah, the fact that they are having you document your hours makes me think you are non-exempt and should be getting paid overtime. Definitely check with your state’s department of labor. Just because you are salary doesn’t automatically mean you shouldn’t be getting paid for the hours you actually work.

29. MPOctober 10,2021 at 4:39PM UTC

    I'm a state attorney in NY and we have to record our hours worked on timesheets...we are for sure exempt from overtime. So these two things don't always overlap. My personal policy belief is that Every worker should legally be entitled to overtime pay, whether professional, manager or otherwise, unlike the limitations that exist now. But the law does not agree with me.

30. MPOctober 10,2021 at 4:40PM UTC

    Also, we sometimes work more than the allotted time per week just like OP. As I'm unionized, the union discourages this but on occasion it is unavoidable.

31. Balanced541872October 10,2021 at 12:39PM UTC

    The job I have is cut at 30 hours a week but once a month we have to do our mileage. For me it takes about 2 hours to do because the app doesn’t track every mile which is very frustrating! To me, it seems unfair. Also, I am experiencing the fact that upper management is being promoted to other roles where people in my position aren’t. I’m grateful that I have an opportunity in the near future to leave this role because I would not recommend this company to anyone.

32. GirlBossanova934974October 10,2021 at 12:51PM UTC

    This is a really simple one. It's as old as Noah and the Ark. You the employer put your employees on salary-exempt status and that way, you don't have to pay any overtime. Now if you as an employee are being paid a certain salary figure over XYZ dollars per year and perform managerial or professional tasks, it is understood you the employee will have to work more than 40 hours per week. But the fact that you are being handed a timesheet, leads me to believe your employer is trying to pull a fast one. You are in fact, a NON exempt worker who is being misclassified as an exempt worker to avoid paying overtime. Certain states take a very harsh line concerning this and other states do not. The overall solution is simply to depart from said company and find an employer who pays more money for the hours and work being expended.

33. Stephanie ChernoffOctober 10,2021 at 12:53PM UTC

    I've often had to record my hours while salaried, because the hours were being charged to a particular budget/project. But having said that, we would want an accurate accounting of the hours spent on that project, so capping your hours would not be the rule. I recommend keeping track of actual hours somewhere - can you make a copy of that spreadsheet for your personal use?

34. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 12:54PM UTC

    I work in IT salaried. Every hour is accounted for because lots of projects are going on and the number of hours that go into each project are tracked. So, 50-60 hours is routine number of hours worked and every person at the company is required to track their hours on projects. Not sure what industry you are in, but, it doesn't sound like any project management tool is used?

35. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 4:59PM UTC

    I'm in IT (software development) too and my situation is more like OP's. We frequently work > 40 hours per week but are instructed to log 40 hours max to our various time buckets (specific projects, KTLO, etc.)
    My opinion is that this doesn't allow accurate accounting of actual work done, but the mgmt/PM rationale is that "non-productive time" (bathroom breaks, etc!) mean it all evens out in the end.

36. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 12:57PM UTC

    I worked in an IT company that did something similar, I was on salary, exempt from overtime and had to fill out time sheets for “capacity” management, which made no sense to me because I am a program/project manager and we usually have project plans/epics/sprints that we manage and these are already documented, so why the extra time sheets? Time sheets make sense if there are some regulatory requirements, bonus incentives or if the employees are hourly. As far as overtime for salaried employees, that only works if you have a certain salary threshold but if you’re above that limit, it doesn’t matter if you work 37.5 or 60 hours. Check with your HR.

37. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:03PM UTC

    Unfortunately that’s what people who are categorized as “salaried “ are expected to do. There is no standard 40 hour work weeks. If you want a 40 hour work week and get paid for anything over that you’ll have to find a “hourly” position bottom line. It’s simple as that!

    This is a very common practice amongst employers that’s why before I accept any salaried jobs I make sure the pay is substantially high to offset the fact that yes of course I’ll be working over 40 hours a week.

    Play the game you’ll be fine or find a hourly position …..don’t stress yourself out over a simple fix.

    Good luck with everything!

38. Pam MorkOctober 10,2021 at 1:06PM UTC

    I held a salaried position for several years. Admin required a "time sheet" be submitted each pay period. Learned the hard way that if not submitted, I would not be paid. Thing of it is, being salaried I was never paid more than 40 hours even though my work hours were recorded and exceeded that every week. I tested admin and submitted a time sheet for less than 40 hours -- my pay was adjusted for less hours. From then on I would submit time sheets for 40 hours weeks. Decided admin did not need to know how many extra hours I worked or what my schedule was. Just wasn't worth the extra time to record it.

39. BeaBoss979975October 10,2021 at 4:46PM UTC

    Now, THAT means that you are misclassified and should be hourly with OT. If you were truly salaried, they would not cut your pay.

40. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:15PM UTC

    Yes, but it depends on your state and you have to capture how many hours you have worked OT. Paying someone salary and then asking /requiring them to work more than 40 hours runs astray of labor laws. There are roles like sales that this doesn’t apply. See an attorney. I know someone that got a decent settlement for this when bullying wasn’t a case that could easily be proven.

41. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:31PM UTC

    Please speak to a labor attorney you and your colleagues could potentially have a class action lawsuit in your hands. There federal and state laws (depending on the state) that have very specific rules against this.

42. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 2:16PM UTC

    You are not an attorney and are giving poor advice. There is no cause for a class action suit based on the facts provided.

43. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 6:22PM UTC

    Thank you for posting this, what a ridiculous suggestion that the OP has a potential class action lawsuit opportunity ahead of her! And let's be reasonable, no employment attorney is going to talk to you without a retainer. Who will shell out money to whine to a JD over needing to log a time card. Stop it FBG with jumping to litigation for every single employment issue, we're better than this!!

44. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 1:32PM UTC

    In my industry this was and is normal for salaried regardless of state and often we even have global travel required jobs with meetings on other country timelines. Weekend trade shows, holiday production direction or manager hours are normal. And bosses have highly encouraged me to work thru nights and up to 48 hrs straight "to make shipments on time" for big contracts or if I "fail, you fail" and "if you want your bonus" highly suggested. Even job loss suggested, with "someone will do it if they want job badly enough".

45. Chris Del NagroOctober 10,2021 at 1:33PM UTC

    Call an employment lawyer in your state. This feels sketchy.

46. Eileen RedmondOctober 10,2021 at 1:39PM UTC

    It may be useful for you to meet with a labor lawyer in your state who can outline your rights.
    Beyond that this practice speaks to the a corporate moral compass.
    While I have worked in the past for companies who expect overtime as needed, I now bring my expertise to a company that respects me by not continually demanding me to forgo personal and family time for them. Projects are properly planned based on a 40 week for all team members. Also, any 'heroic' overtime is specifically frowned upon, as it degrades overall culture and morale. Point being, not all companies are abusive like the one you are with now. Find one with a higher standard for employee/employer relationship, who values employee satisfaction and bring your skills, passion, and expertise to a deserving employer.

47. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 2:04PM UTC

    Do you have an ethics hotline?

48. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 2:06PM UTC

    Yeah, I made the mistake of accepting a salary position too, once. Never again will I do that. What should have been no more than 50 hours a week turned in to open- close, 7 days a week, equalling 90 hours a week, divide that by my measly $500 a week, you get the picture. I now know that I will never accept a salaried job again. But in your case, it doesn't sound like you are really being paid salary at all because salaried people do not fill out timesheets. If you are filling out a timesheet, you are an hourly employee on the books and for tax purposes. Stop working more than the hours you are documenting because you are an hourly employee working for free. A true salaried person doesn't fill out a timesheet. I fell for the salary scam and it sounds like you have fallen for the hourly scam.

49. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 2:24PM UTC

    That is incorrect. A salaried employee can still be required to fill out time sheets.

50. Jason LeeOctober 10,2021 at 2:53PM UTC

    7 days a week -- 90 hour weeks for $500? Is that an exaggeration? I find that hard to believe, at least in the USA.

51. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 5:17PM UTC

    This is a ***women's*** career community

52. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 6:19PM UTC

    You're exactly correct...this does seem like an exaggeration. I'm also not familiar with a salaried position that averages $12.50/hour ($500 / 40 hour work week) And the 90 hours seems even more egregious...13 hours of work per day? Not so sure about this.

53. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 3:17AM UTC

    Retail. I know at least two companies whose stores open at 8 a.m. & close at 10 p.m. If the store is short-staffed or someone calls out, someone else has to cover that shift (many times it's the manager because "salaried"). Can easily be a 14 hour shift - been there, done that.

54. Barbara Scionti KuehnleOctober 10,2021 at 2:15PM UTC

    The way to determine if you are entitled to overtime will depend on your job classification as exempt or non exempt and the position / the nature of the work and responsibilities . Salaried workers may be entitled to OT pay . Refer to National Payroll Association and US Dept of labor and your own State Dept of Labor for further clarification

55. Maya TravagliaOctober 10,2021 at 2:18PM UTC

    I am salaried and am expected to work as needed. I have to discern what needs to completed/responded to after normal business hours and what can wait for the next business day.

56. RiaOctober 10,2021 at 2:22PM UTC

    An employer can still require even salaried employees to submit time sheets. It doesn't matter if you work 40 or 60 hours you will stay be paid the same salary. I'm troubled that the time sheets don't reflect the actual hours work. That is a red flag. I'm also concerned that you may not be properly classified as an exempt employee. There are guidelines that employers must adhere to when classifying an employee as exempt. Some unscrupulous employers have tried to get around paying overtime by classifying a an employee who should be nonexempt as exempt. Please review the guidelines set forth by the Dept of Labor as to what constitutes exempt vs nonexempt. If you learn you've been misclassified, file a grievance with the Department of Labor.

57. barbgOctober 10,2021 at 2:27PM UTC

    Much depends upon the exact terms of labor law in your state. Salaried people get paid a set amount - it's not according to time. But I was in an hourly tech support position once where, although they had a bushel basket full of old iPhones, they wouldn't let us have one to learn on because we might make a call after hours and that would be illegal or something. As a result, we were not allowed to get the practice we needed to become expert in a technology we were expected to support for the salaried workers - we had to just get a class once a year or so, read an outdated and incomplete support article in our database, and fumble around trying to help people. The result: frustration and complaints all around.

58. RiaOctober 10,2021 at 2:30PM UTC

    I've seen a few responses that indicate that true salaried employees do not have to submit time sheets. This is not true. While the Fair Labor Act does not require employers to track salaried employees time, some employers still do so for some of the following reasons:

    (1) Tracking and monitoring vacation and sick leave. If your salaried employees are entitled to sick time and vacation time, you need to track a) how they’re accruing leave, and b) when they take that leave in the form of sick or vacation days. Having your salaried employees fill out timesheets helps you more efficiently track, monitor, and manage their leave—and makes the entire process easier for you and your human resources team.

    (2) More accurate project management. If you have employees working on a variety of different projects, you need to know what working hours are going towards which projects; otherwise, it’s difficult to evaluate how each project is progressing and whether you need to shift employees between projects to get things done. Having salaried employees fill out timesheets, and then comparing their working hours to the total working hours of the project they’re assigned to, can give you insights into how projects are moving along—and whether you need to make any changes to your work assignments.

    (3) Keep burnout at bay. You want your employees to have work-life balance; if your employees are working too much, it could be a recipe for burnout—which isn’t good for them or you. Having your salaried employees fill out timesheets can help you identify if and when employees are putting in too many hours—and help you get them back on a regular schedule before they completely burn out.

    (4) Increased productivity. If a salaried employee is working 50+ hours every week and still not performing at the level of your other team members, it lets you know that there’s an opportunity there to increase productivity—and you can get that employee the training or support they need to get things done in less time. But the only way you can identify that opportunity is if you know how much they’re working—information you can easily access when they fill out a timesheet.

    (5) Identify red flags. Even though salaried employees aren’t paid by the hour, you still expect them to be there for a certain number of hours each day. Having salaried employees fill out timesheets will confirm that they’re showing up on time and working a reasonable number of hours—or, if they’re showing up late and leaving early every day, it will clue you in to what’s going on.

59. RiaOctober 10,2021 at 2:32PM UTC

    Correction: Fair Labor Standards Act

60. RodrigueOctober 10,2021 at 4:06PM UTC

    Well said.
    Your arguments are fair and convincing.

    Here is a system we created to track, automatically, employees presence:
    https://www.technoproweb.com/index.php/en/technoproducts/smart-id-badge

61. Joanna PoeOctober 10,2021 at 4:37PM UTC

    Excellent response, and all correct, but I feel the OP is correct to feel suspicious about their requirement when the timesheets they're filling out are specifically not allowed to go over 7.5 hours per day.

    It sounds like they're being required to track their time, which is probably a corporate-level decision but discouraged from tracking reality, which is at best, disingenuous, and at worst, duplicitous.

    Inasmuch as the OP can dictate their own schedule, I think it'd be a good idea to put their foot down and say "if I'm not allowed to TRACK anything over 7.5 hours in a day, I'm not going to WORK more than 7.5 hours." Perhaps use it as a conversation starter with management about expectations v. reality.

62. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 3:35PM UTC

    I'm salary, have to submit a timesheet and am also unable to reflect the true number of hours I work.
    I work in public higher education in the state of Washington.
    Last year, I averaged 50hrs/wk. I'm now down to 45hrs/wk., though it's not enough to do the job I'm expected to do.
    I figure the limited hours reporting is to help them continue to create more and more "hybrid" roles like mine, where one person is expected to do the work of three.
    Next year, we convert to PeopleSoft. We'll see if that system lets people track their true hours worked.

63. Audrey KirschOctober 10,2021 at 4:33PM UTC

    I work a salaried position and fill out a time sheet for 40 hours per week. However, I knew from the start that there would be times when I would need to work nights or weekends in addition to my regular schedule. Certain businesses don’t fall into the normal 9 - 5. Because of the extra time I put in, I don’t sweat having a doctor’s appointment or other required errand that gets done during business hours. My bosses trust me to get the work done. And we have surprise bonuses and generous time off options to avoid burnout. Don’t know why we still complete time sheets but I’ve never expected to only work the hours listed.

64. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 4:37PM UTC

    In certain companies and industries it is standard practice to have salaried employees track time, especially if it is tracked against a specific project or type of work. This information is used by finance to be able to write resource expenses off and account for PTO time. In those cases where your hours are capped on the timesheet, finance is normally padding a certain extra number of hours per day for non-project work. For example, if you're only allowed to enter 7.5 hrs per day they probably expect employees are averaging 9-9.5 hrs per day of actual time at work. If you have concerns about it, your boss should be able to clarify for you exactly how the time tracking is being used.

65. Karen BurkeOctober 10,2021 at 8:52PM UTC

    This is an excellent response. Ask your boss or HR to clarify the policy. In general, I am exempt salary at my company, however depending on projects and work load, sometimes management is able to give overtime.

    I fortunately rarely work more than 9ish hours a day, unless something big comes up. I also pretty much never work late evenings. Some people at my company do, because they have to collaborate globally. They are told this before they take the role.

    So, unless your company is doing something to skate by some law, it's probably perfectly legal. Maybe not ethical, but legal. Definitely ask someone at the company who can explain. If they refuse to, you probably have your answer, and may want to start looking elsewhere.

66. Focused721350October 10,2021 at 5:00PM UTC

    THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T WORK SALARY!!!!! You work your BUTT OFF basically for FREE!!!!NEVER EVER WORK THAT!!!!!! HOURLY ONLY!!!! Good Luck!!!

67. Sheila Alsbrooks PlattOctober 10,2021 at 5:22PM UTC

    Unfortunately some positions require you to be paid a salary instead of an hourly wage. I always said I wouldn't work a salary job but that changed when I became an accountant. I haven't been able to find any accountant positions that aren't salary.

68. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 6:06PM UTC

    I will say that not all salary jobs require you to work like crazy. Some jobs have slow times and busy times that balance out over the course of the year. There are also some salaried jobs where if you get your stuff done and you’re quick, no one cares how many hours you put in. It’s all about results.

69. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 6:14PM UTC

    What an ignorant thing to say! Let's think about how that conversation would play out with a potential employer:

    Employer: We'd like to offer you this salaried position and bonus structure to fill the Director / VP role, whatever.

    Potential employee: Absolutely not, won't accept a salaried position! I will only be paid by the hour. I'm not invested in the organization and I refuse to work by butt off basically for free should my hours ever go above 40 in one week.

    Employer: Best of luck in your job search!

70. Focused721350October 10,2021 at 11:21PM UTC

    I don't think so! I run my own business. I've worked my BUTT OFF many years for others. SO! Because I have a GOOD head on my shoulders! I started my own Business and I do very well!!!! Better to work for myself than some ungrateful company on SALARY. Besides! Your going way extreme!
    ;) Hmm! Don't need it....

71. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 12:42PM UTC

    No offense but seeing you post here I personally would probably not enjoy working for you.
    I have worked Salary since graduating College, I have when I needed to work consistently over 40 put together time sheets myself to show how much my time is going to other topics and how many hours I put in a week.
    Each one of those has typically earned me a salary increase a potential promotion and oh yea sometimes even another person being hired.
    PS Congratulations on starting your company. Maybe it would be useful to the original poster to hear how you managed do do that vs. the above drama.

72. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 7:16PM UTC

    No thanks. I’ve been an hourly contractor. I’ve done the same work on salary. I’ll take the stability of having work after the end of a project, thanks, even if sometimes I put in substantial overtime.

    And even on contract, I’ve been told I can only book so many hours in a week. Sometimes I’ve had managers who have let me stockpile that time to take vacation later, which I greatly appreciated.

73. froerden@yahoo.comOctober 10,2021 at 9:58PM UTC

    You will never earn a top salary/pay on an hourly rate.

74. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 10:24PM UTC

    I think this is true in more administrative roles - in those roles, they'll try to make them salaried to get away with not paying overtime. But more professional roles are going to be salaried as well they should be. And this has lots of benefits - I don't have to ask anyone or lose out on pay to go to the doctor or care for a sick child.
    Personally, I have weeks where I work 30 hours and don't feel bad at all. And weeks where I put in 60 hours because it's needed and I don't get upset.
    If your job requires too much time for the pay, you go get a different job. Salary vs hourly isn't the issue in this case. It's the expectations for the compensation.

75. Me!October 10,2021 at 6:34PM UTC

    This is a lost opportunity for the company to gather valuable Information associated with the bottom line. True hours worked is helpful in identifying need for additional headcount or justification of funding different improvement. Additionally project margins can be better understood.

76. Janet ParkhurstOctober 10,2021 at 7:56PM UTC

    Hourly isn't always great. The last company I worked for limited the amount of hours you could work to 40 per week--even if last-minute projects required that we go over the 40. If we did? They would deduct the extra hours from our earned PTO, which I think is illegal. They did that b/c anything worked over 40 hours deserves overtime. And I believe that can apply to salaried workers, too. Maybe not?
    But most salaried jobs provide PAID VACATION, sick time and personal leave. That company where I worked should have called PTO ETO--Earned Time Off. That's because when the company was "doing poorly" no hourly employee could actually TAKE Paid Time Off.

    I'd go salary any time. In fact, I was shocked that, for the first time in my career, the role of Senior Copywriter was not "professional enough" to warrant a salary. Prior to that, the only time I'd worked hourly was as a contractor.
    I really don't know what the answer is.

    Well, actually, I DO. Companies have got to give up their obsession with making love to the bottom line and look at rewarding their people properly instead of exploiting them.

77. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 9:21PM UTC

    What your former employer was doing was completely illegal. If this was recent I suggest that you report them to your state's Department of Labor. They should be in deep doo-doo.

78. Kim WarnerOctober 10,2021 at 8:01PM UTC

    If you are salaried and are being ASKED to submit a time sheet, that is one thing. But you are salaried and required to submit a time sheet? And on top of that, you are being told to only report 7.5 hours / day? That's not how this works. (And why only 7.5 hours? )
    Here is the FLSA guide--Click on "Exemptions". These examples give you an idea of what constitutes salaried no OT time pay as well as other exemptions.
    https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#8

    You should also contact your state's labor department. You're right: something is not right here. Your employer may be deliberately mis-classifying you as exempt or may be trying to justify underpaying you a competitive salary.

79. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 11:21PM UTC

    Well said! this is very shady practice on the part of the company. You cannot categorize someone as salaried, work them as hourly and hide tge details of their actual work hours in lies and expect not to be held accountable. It's illegal and immoral.

80. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 11:09AM UTC

    It us standard practice for exempt employees to complete a timesheet in this manner. As for 7.5 hours? That's their standard work day (real or imagined). I've worked at a major university that had us record 7 hour days. My current employer requires 8. I don't record my OT either and I'm ok with it as I know I'm exempt and sometimes we work more.

    I do try to be flexible with my team, and they take comp time when they can.

81. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 12:57PM UTC

    What is comp time?

82. Kim WarnerOctober 11,2021 at 6:37PM UTC

    If you are not recording OT hours then how do you know how much comp time to issue? Do you keep a separate time log? If so, that doesn't make sense. Any company that discourages factual time keeping does this deliberately, because it's likely they know they are doing something shady.

83. Healthcare workerOctober 10,2021 at 9:46PM UTC

    So if you were truly salary they wouldn’t care if you document any additional hours. I’m salary I also have to enter my time into our system as it’s part of the patient record for when I see my patients. I am not told that I have to stay under a certain number of hours per day. I have been told to enter administrative time if I finish up early to I get to 8 hours for the day so I don’t get docked any PTO by the payroll company that does our payroll (it’s an external company). That very specific 7.5 hours a day sounds like things are amiss. Perhaps it’s about not wanting a record of your actual hours as they are treating you like an exempt employee but by NLRA standards you should not be.

84. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 11:02AM UTC

    In payroll systems it is standard practice to enter expected hours per day (8 or in this case 7.5) and any time off such as sick or vacation leave.

    It's not nefarious or trying to hide time worked, it is how the system works. And if you did record the time, it's not illegal to not get paid..

85. Patricia ManroeOctober 10,2021 at 10:17PM UTC

    Sounds like free labor to me. I've quit two jobs where I was on salary. I had to work too many hours.

    Only if the pay was commensurate would I take it again.

    About 20 years ago there was a law on the books that said if you worked more than 40 hours on salary they were required to pay overtime, if not stated otherwise in a contract.

86. AnonymousOctober 10,2021 at 11:21PM UTC

    I worked for a company where the employees were expected to work off the clock. If they didn't they were let go. Like the management folk say any worker can be replaced in an hour.

87. Amanda McMillinOctober 11,2021 at 5:48PM UTC

    I'm happy to hear you left that job. That kind of thinking is so outdated and does nothing to build a good work team or environment. :p

88. Sheryl BrinkleyOctober 11,2021 at 3:38AM UTC

    It is unjust, and providing a link to US Department of Labor to research this issue.

    https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state

89. Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachOctober 11,2021 at 10:56AM UTC

    You are an exempt employee. This is the way it is. Some employers do demand a lot of unpaid overtime from salaried employees. In some sectors it is unavoidable. This is neither new nor illegal.

    Advocate for yourself calmly and professionally. Track your hours in a spreadsheet.... be sure to specify what you used the time for. Then share the data/facts with your manager and ask if they have a flex or comp time policy? That can be helpful in salaried roles.

    Otherwise if you don't like it, return to non-exempt positions. Your career trajectory may be more limited but it sounds like may prefer that.

90. ChelseaOctober 11,2021 at 12:37PM UTC

    1- Do some reflection. Is this a system where you get paid or a internal system that is used for tracking?
    2- Alot of companies have these internal systems and the reason you don't put over is the system is not meant to handle that its meant to help understand resources/time spent on certain projects/customers.
    3- Are you exempt or Non-Exempt this is a big difference.
    4- Run your own sheet and use that for having a conversation about time/salary. Use that sheet to calculate your true hourly pay.
    5- BE POLITIE during this whole process.
    6- Be prepared to change jobs if no change happens.
    7- We can be our own worst enemy on these topics. We complain, we gripe, we whine, we get frustrated, we do not seek solutions. Most companies are willing to at least open the door to a discussion if your putting a potential solution on the table.
    8- Is your company providing any other benefits to make up for these hours. If so please consider/weigh that into your equation.

91. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:25PM UTC

    I find the comments interesting. I have done the same type of work for many years, always exempt, and much of it in the same company, although in different divisions. And even there it is handled differently. there simply is no right or wrong way.

    I almost always had to submit time sheets because they use the hours charged to a particular project to create revenue or to track how many hours it takes to perform a particular project.

    - Only at one place was I ever paid overtime, if I worked more than 45hrs/week.
    - At one place the so-called leadership asked us to work at least 20% overtime (but without extra pay)
    - Sometime they want you to fail first in order for them to be able to show that something is wrong (stupid, I know, but they would not listen, and if they are that screwed up they would blame us anyways, not themselves).
    - Only one place gave us real flexibility to take some time off for overtime, similar to comp time, but it was unofficial.
    - if your job has to deal with different time zones e.g. in the far East, realistically a standard work day is simply not possible, and we had to find ways to compromise.
    - Sometimes they did not want us to ever record more than the 40 hrs, and sometimes they wanted us to record the actual hours.

    I honestly don't know what the law is, but the sad fact is that nowadays many states are right-to-work, and you have to decide what you are willing to accept if you are worried about losing your job. Heck, it may not matter, because in my personal experience corporate layoffs happen for reasons completely unrelated to your performance.

    I wish I could be of more help, but as they say it is complicated. It is probably just as important if you are relatively happy in your department, if you all work together and if your manager has your back.

92. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:34PM UTC

    Like many others have mentioned it is not illegal.

    Personally, the way I see it is if they hired you to do a job and the expectation was that it can get done in 37.5-40 hours a week (since that is all they are crediting you for salary or PTO) and you are unable, its time to do some reflection. You may be able to negotiate a higher salary based on what others have mentioned.

    Many organizations require outside work outside of their "regular working hours." Being an exempt employee makes it easier for them to do that.

    My PERSONAL OPINION - if they hire you in for a certain amount of hours the job should be able to be done in those hours. For a position like yours it may be necessary to have longer hours or non-traditional work hours (aka not 9-5). I truly believe companies should just be honest (roughly) with the hours.

93. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 1:43PM UTC

    To add in....what I mean by "Being an exempt employee makes it easier for them to do that" is they aren't required to pay you more for those hours like a non-exempt or hourly employee.

    If they told you when hired in that you would have to work say 50 hours but will only get 7.5 hours of sick leave a month for example then that is the purpose of the timesheet.

    My main thing is just knowing what you are being hired in for. Like I know generally I work 8-4 and maybe once a month have an evening event to attend.

94. Karen GongawareOctober 11,2021 at 1:39PM UTC

    Only do 7.5 hours. I believe that it is illegal to ask people to work past the agreed upon hours, salary or not. What does your contract state? In some states, you are entitled to overtime, regardless of whether you are salary or not. Check your labor laws and go from there. I refuse to do one bit of free work anymore for any company. They make millions if not billions off our work. No freebies for them!

95. AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 12:27AM UTC

    Most/many salaried jobs do not have contracts. And it is not illegal for people to work more than stated hours if exempt.

96. JudikingOctober 11,2021 at 3:11PM UTC

    I'm wondering how many people work at your company? It's true, as a salaried employee, you may be required to work overtime, but the fact that they are making you dummy up a timesheet is concerning. Frequently, if required, a timesheet is used for that old category of "hourly paid as salary". I'm not sure if that's even allowed any more, but if that is the case, you are to keep your hours so that if wage and hour comes in to inspect, they can prove you weren't paid under the hourly minimum wage rate. If they're screwing around with your hours, you may want to confirm they're not paying you below minimum.

97. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 4:26PM UTC

    I am curious what this persons timesheet looks like. I am salary and technically have one but its just to mark my time off. So if I don't take any time off that pay period I turn in a blank time card. Otherwise its known that I worked Monday through Friday 8-4.

98. JudikingOctober 11,2021 at 6:10PM UTC

    That's the way it's usually done. That's also why I don't like putting in phony hours.

99. Joanna PoeOctober 11,2021 at 6:30PM UTC

    I've been in multiple situations with variations on both themes: a) a timesheet that we only fill in to debit PTO from our balance, and b) a super-detailed timesheet with multiple lines which synced with billable projects in other systems, like Salesforce. This was extremely helpful to our project managers but is certainly not beneficial across the board for every company.

    There are arguments for all types of reporting, but the problem with the OP's scenario is the artificial cap on the timesheet is not allowing them to reflect the reality of their day.

    While I feel that nobody should be working 50-60 hours a week on the regular, there is an ebb and flow to everything, and the timesheet/management should appreciate the realities on the ground. When I worked in software implementation, I'd regularly work 10+ hour days when I was with the customer on deadline (publishing) and supporting their users in the field. The rule of thumb was that you make up for that by maybe working a 6 hour day when you're back in the office answering email and filling in paperwork. As long as the two-week timesheet had around 80 hours, not significantly over or under, nobody was going to worry too much about the daily breakdown.

    What the OP's company needs to address is "why are we tracking this time in the first place?" and "why aren't we allowing the tracking to reflect reality?"

100. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 7:15PM UTC

     The timesheet is filled in by project. I work on multiple projects at one time. But the hours per project are not being captured properly because of the 7.5 per day limit…

101. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 6:35PM UTC

     I started at my company salaried (California). A few years later HR transitioned my position to hourly salaried. Strange at first but meant I was paid for hours worked based on hourly rate as if I was still salaried. So, if I worked 41 hours that week, I'd be paid 40 hour at the regular rate and 1 hour at time and a half. The information in the timecard attests to what I've worked if it comes down to any disagreement with labor laws. Of course, that still leaves room from my manager and his manager to be ambiguous about some things. They know they are pushing the limit and see what they can get away with. I do not volunteer my time for normal business activity. Payroll lets the company now how much money resources they need to allocate to get things done.

102. AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 9:32PM UTC

     I’ve never heard of hourly salaried??? Here in Michigan it’s either or ! Either your salary (flat rate regardless of hours worked) or hourly (pay based on how many hours are worked and able to be paid OT ).so basically your hourly not salary

103. Valerie RiegerOctober 12,2021 at 6:00PM UTC

     The FLSA speaks to exempt and non-exempt employees, based on the duties of the position, and therefore it is possible to have a salaried employee who would be eligible for overtime.

     I have worked in an organization where we had employees who were salaried employees but eligible for OT under the rules of the FLSA. It was an odd position that had some crazy travel and availability expectations.

104. Karen BurkeOctober 12,2021 at 6:14PM UTC

     Yep. I'm in MI, and that's how my company does things for a lot of the engineering and similar roles. We have a lot of non-exempt people in other roles, like technicians, who can get OT much easier than we can as exempt.

105. JudikingOctober 12,2021 at 6:03PM UTC

     try looking up non-exempt salaried, unless it isn't lawful in Michigan, which may be the case.

106. JudikingOctober 12,2021 at 1:03PM UTC

     Every State seems to do it a little differently. I worked as a non-exempt salaried in Florida and then was transferred to a different branch when that office closed. I was promised an extra month's salary for taking that position. After I started, I got a check for about $1500 which was nice, but not a month's pay. When I asked about it, I was told that while working at the first office they kept records of my hours while being paid salary and this check covered the difference. Which was nice because I then got a full month's check and that check completely unexpected.
     So you really have to know where this person was working and what specifically she was classified as.

107. AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 2:19PM UTC

     I worked for a company years ago where the owner and his wife ran the place like a sweat shop for office workers. They sat in the front office and logged when you came in the door. You had to be 15 minutes early but could not log in until 8am. Would be made to work longer if on a call and a chance to increase a subscription (customers paid for information/articles, etc) I kept track of my hours and when I left due to the horrible conditions (I was written up as I got friendly with one of the other department workers at lunch) that were there. I was told I needed to only come in - and do my job. When I was doing my exit interview with HR I showed him the extra time I was required to be in but not paid - he was shocked (he was newer to the company.) and he mentioned labor laws, etc. He said I would have a check for all the unpaid time I was there and talked to the owners. I got a pretty paycheck when I left and an apology from HR but I refused to stay as the owners wife was still there. Shortly thereafter they retired and non-family took over and bought the business. I have not gone back but felt better for the teams still there. I would keep track of these hours, even if daily on your calendar in outlook as you can print that out for proof if ever needed.

108. DENNISE WILLIAMSOctober 12,2021 at 9:24PM UTC

     It's time to look for another job.

109. Carolyn FieldsOctober 14,2021 at 9:49PM UTC

     I don't know the legalities involved. My comment is purely my opinion, and what I would do in this situation.
     With that said, recording 7.5 hours and doing more is actually a falsification of company records. You are being instructed to lie. Then, if labor laws are ever brought into question, they will be able to show "proof" that they didn't overwork anyone. It's a horrible situation to be in.
     I would document all of my hours - accurately. If they say "No, only include 7.5 hours" - say, "That's not accurate. You wouldn't want me to lie would you?" When they persist, tell them that THEY will need to change the document. Keep copies for yourself.

110. Sarah MayfieldNovember 15,2021 at 5:31PM UTC

     I would be sure to have an email or written trail of this. So if they verbally tell you to change it send a confirmation email. "As per your request, I have changed the hours listed on my timesheet from the hours I actually worked (X hours) to 7.5 hours. " OR, "please confirm that I am required to list 7.5 hours on my timesheet, even though I worked X hours.

111. froerden@yahoo.comOctober 15,2021 at 11:23PM UTC

     Timesheets for salaried workers are very common and necessary. The company must know where you are for insurance and liability reasons, and also for state/federal employment and social security reporting.

112. Carolyn FieldsOctober 16,2021 at 8:19PM UTC

     For the entire time that I was a salaried worker for Sempra Energy Utilities, I never had to put in a timesheet. They may be common, but I disagree that they are necessary. Social security doesn't give a rip where you are. They only look at the dollar values.

113. Paula Manczuk-HannayOctober 16,2021 at 6:13PM UTC

     We’re you exempt or no exempt? Generally speaking, comp time really isn’t a legal for non exempt staff.

114. Liz MilneOctober 28,2021 at 4:27AM UTC

     Ask your line manager why you are all expected to submit falsified timesheets? If they're not needed for your pay, they shouldn't be necessary except as a time/ motion study, which is then already tainted because it's not a true reflection of hours worked. It is unjust and somewhere along the line someone is benefitting from the deception - maybe not you, but someone... :/