I recently terminated an employee for absenteeism.

I recently terminated an employee for absenteeism. She had been placed on a program improvement, counseled on numerous occasions and was given the hybrid schedule she said she needed to be successful. Despite these accomodations, she didnt start work one day until noon (she worked remote that day) when she was due to start at 9. The system showed that prior to noon, she had been logged off for 19 hours. Her excuse was that she had placed her computer in sleep mode. I was appalled at such a lame excuse. Have any of you experienced remote associates MIA when they were supposed to be at work.

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  1. Gretchen Skalka

    I have, Yup.

    We used to have a daily 'standup' meeting (legacy 'standup' from before the Pandemic) at 9:15 every morning. It was required and on-camera was also required (more for engagement than anything).

    That helped a lot.

    That meeting was a table-setter for the rest of the day. We discussed assignments, who was challenged and how we could work through those, etc.

    Maybe that approach might help folks struggling with remote accountability?

  2. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    I think that an important question to consider is whether you're getting the most out of your employees by requiring them to do things that are non-essential to their actual job. Requiring them to attend a daily meeting with the camera on "more for engagement than anything" takes them away from doing their actual work, and quite frankly those morning meetings can ruin a good day before it even gets started.

    At least 4 companies that I've worked for had similar policies on morning meetings, and the one meeting that employees weren't required to attend every day was definitely the most beneficial in terms of use of my time, frame of mind going into the rest of the day, etc. The company recognized that this morning meeting was great for many people, but not for everyone. In the time I was there, I personally observed the positive impact it had on the business because it only existed to benefit the employees, not restrict or micromanage them.

  3. Anonymous

    Agree with this comment. I also discourage anyone from implementing anything for a group that's meant to target one employee. That's a quick way to make your accountable employees feel even less engaged.

  4. Anonymous

    I used to like a good required morning meeting. As a manager of a small team, I was present but kept my nose out of the discussion unless I was asked for input or if the team seemed stumped on an issue or roadblock. I provided them with project objectives and I encouraged staff to collaborate with and to rely on each other to meet them. In a larger team, this might have been a volatile format but with just the half dozen, they were neither shy about encouraging each other nor hesitant about asking each other to step it up when necessary. They were a great group to work with.

  5. Anonymous

    I love the idea of this, but truly I hate DAILY standups. Being required to state what i accomplished the day prior and predict what I will accomplish that day is a nice thought but due to last minute meetings, putting out fires, my daily goals inevitably change or are not completed THAT day which is anxiety inducing and I just feel like a failure. It is nearly impossible to predict my daily accomplishments ahead of time. While commonly utilized as part of agile methodology, is this not an exact replication of the micromanagement used for underperforming employees on PIPs ?

    Most people in HR know that the writing is on the wall once a PIP is created. It’s typically used as supporting documentation for a future termination. Any smart employee would use the time they had left to find a new job rather than invest in their current company. No offense to the OP but once the PIP is handed over all you are doing is giving your employee a heads up and allowing them to prepare for their term ahead of time. It’s actually doing them a favor in my mind. Once the trust is gone the relationship is over.

    Be careful about timing of these docs too. If u recommended an LOA then immediately put them on a performance plan the employee may have a case for retaliation. It’s muddy waters but the courts would have come down hard on you if the employee had framed her need to modify her accommodations again in respect to workload or hours rather than admitting to time fraud (which is a justified immediate termination).

    Personally, I do my best work at night so being required to get camera ready by 9 is a noble idea for accountability but not a guaranteed example of effective leadership.

    People keep talking about 8-5 workdays but California passed a new law that students (in middle school and up) cannot start before 8:30am. I can talk until 7 am and be online by 9:00/9:30. I think sometimes companies forget in the whole work-life balance equation, life also exists in the morning.

  6. Heather Macone

    Coming from a place with open and flexible working hours, it is difficult to understand how other workplaces have not pivoted to that model. With that said, I understand scenarios where this is not feasible. In this case, was the employee a contractor and billed that she started at 9 but actually started at 12? Is she performing to standard and/or excelling at her role and deliverables?

    You may not be the only manager dealing with this type of issue. Perhaps reach out to your management colleagues for more pointed advice, perhaps including a proposal to the flexibility policy, if applicable (especially if the employee is performing at or above standard for their role - if you harp on this you risk losing them). Good luck!

  7. Anonymous

    She is an hourly employee and would fudge her time sheets to say that she started at 9 when she started at 12. She would also call out sick and instead of reporting it as a sick day she would allege to have worked that day. Her performance was below standards and she wasn't completing assignments.

  8. Anonymous

    If that was the case, she was probably employed there longer than she should have been. Sounds like you had a bunch of things that made her a challenge to manage. Some companies I worked for didn’t let it get that far. If someone was fudging time sheets , it was an automatic termination because the company considered it stealing.

  9. Kate Compton

    That's not an absentee problem. That's an honesty problem. Definitely owe her no more loyalty or patience than you've already given.

    I say this as someone with deep sympathy for actual attendance issues. With a medically complex child, I'm working contract/freelance for clients who don't expect me to pull typical office hours, because I simply, legtimately, can't do that. But I also bill only for hours that I'm on task...I couldn't imagine saying I was working on a project when I was at the doctor with my kid, even though I sometimes bring work with me for the waiting room.

  10. Heather Macone

    Yikes - I am with Kates comment, sounds like she is dishonest and not a good fit. Document your conversation around this situation and any improvement steps. That way if she does this nonsense again, you will have your ducks in a row to take next steps.

  11. Anonymous

    Overtime you will experience all sorts of employees from stellar successful people to those that play games to those who create management nightmares and everything in between.

    This particular person is a gamer who games the system and tries to outsmart the manager or just wear the manager out.

    It wasn't a good fit for either. It sounds like you went through the stages of managing them and it just didn't work.

    Oh well.

  12. Audrey Kirsch

    Did she complete her assignments or projects? Was the work she did done well? I work remotely. My bosses say that they don't check up on me or the rest of my team because they know we get the job done. Normally I'm at my desk from 8 - 5 but I never sweat an extended lunch or leaving for an appointment as I sometimes need to take a call in the evening and / or on weekends. I even respond on here when I have a few minutes of down time. Absenteeism should only be a problem if the work or clients are affected.

  13. Anonymous

    I am in full agreement with this response. And I would like to ask those who have bitterness or negativity toward WFH or other employees’ behaviors to reflect: assuming that these individuals complete their work regardless of hours, is there unconscious bias at play here? Do you have trouble saying “no” or enforcing boundaries which creates a negative energy about those who do use reasonable boundaries?

  14. Anonymous

    yes

  15. Anonymous

    Super intrigued by this topic.

    I've been salaried for so long and I definitely give more than 8 hours a day on average. I take the late and weekend calls, but have been trying to limit email after hours. My company is hemorrhaging money and we cannot replace a person on our three person team. My boss is definitely doing more but he makes bucks and bonuses for it, I do not.

    But the topic is being on a clock. Some jobs do require you to be on time, or the last person or the next person suffers. If so, then should everyone be held to the same standard? Also, I do not appreciate my WFH colleagues who tell me about how hard their day is while in their pajamas or walking their dogs at lunch time. Sorry for the bitter much attitude. And I was five minutes late but answered three emails after hours.

  16. Anonymous

    I feel this deeply. It’s a matter of give and take, right? I’ve felt that WFH has been a tremendous privilege. When company said come back, I go in the days I said I would. If I take time during day to do laundry, it gets added to my work day. In summer, I work a compressed 4 day schedule yet have routinely logged more hours in those 4 than in most peoples 5 and I still have worked no less than a half day on my 5th. It’s frustrating when it seems more people take than give, but I always remember that they are the ones who have to live with themselves and be judged. I can sleep at night knowing I gave an honest good hard days work.

  17. Anonymous

    Yikes, sounds like you have a toxic work environment!

  18. Communication Coach

    A company having a corporate culture of precise expectations does not make it toxic. Some companies are more flexable than others. It is up to the employee to find a good fit

  19. Anonymous

    I've worked from home since 2006. Pre-pandemic about half our company worked remotely. There were people in my same position who worked in the office, rather than remote & were bitter about not working from home. People were specifically hired to work in the office vs remotely. It was (is) a bit of an unwritten rule that you don't talk about what you're able to do at home vs in the office. I might talk to another remote co-worker about working on my patio or watching my kids play on the swing set but never someone in the office. Because it's a jerk thing to do. I don't feel guilty because remote is what I negotiated. But I also didn't want to rub it in that I could fold my laundry while in a meeting.

    My job is pretty strict about work hours. If you work 8-5, you are expected to be online & clocked in by 8AM. Not 8:05AM. It doesn't matter if you work in the office or from home. But you're also not expected to work over. If your day ends at 5 & you need to go, then go. Work will be there tomorrow.

  20. Anonymous

    I have and I think if its repeatedly happening you have no choice but to terminate.

  21. Anonymous

    i have one now who calls out took COVID free pay 9 times in one year.
    Comes in late, doesn't clock in when supposed to, or out for break, clear signs of manipulation and HR does nothing because she "pulls the sickness card" claims she has certain life illnesses and sometimes has to leave in middle of day. this has put tremendous strain on the remaining team members and lowered moral. people quit tired of listening to the never ending drama she brings. I feel for you keep documenting and hope she isn't like mine, HR afraid of Law suit and my team is the one suffering picking up her slack

  22. Anonymous

    Isn’t this easily proved by test results or doctor corroboration?

  23. Alexandra D

    Likely HR has seen that through if they’re allowing the behavior.

  24. Kate Compton

    Not necessarily. There are several chronic/rare diseases that carry with them an average time actively seeking diagnosis that is measured in YEARS.

    Long COVID is getting a lot of attention now, but there have always been chronic syndromes (many post-infectious, but not all), that carry with them the notorious added burden that diagnosis is clinical and not corroborated with bloodwork. The suffering and debilitation, however, is absolutely real.

  25. Anonymous

    Just remember that for those that have had COVID there can be long term lingering symptoms that include brain fog and fatigue even waking up in the morning. We don't know the long term consequences. I am (was) an incredibly detail oriented individual who post covid is dealing with brain fog that is causing mistakes for the first time in my career and it's scary. President Biden signed Covid protections into law under ADA I believe.

  26. Anonymous

    Also yes I am vaccinated and boosted and got Covid at a company sponsored super spreader event.

  27. E C

    I also got Covid at work, and gave it to my whole family, before the vaccine and meds were available.
    We had zero protection in our workplace (masks were optional) because we work for a Red State Governor who needed to kiss a** within his party. I love my job but I resent my employer.

  28. Lisa Williams

    I cannot agree more. t's a popular thing to blame management these days. I agree, there are a lot of toxic managers and work places, I have been there myself, and I've also been heavily burnt out. However, in this case, it seems this employee was not able to work without supervision. Not everyone is able to work remotely and be motivated. Some do better in an office environment, whether they think so or not. In my experience, depending on the person, they are more productive in an office environment with a team around them. It motivates them.

    As a side note, post covid, manager's jobs are increasingly difficult. Employees can be demanding and impossible to please. Mental health is a real issue, and the demand for excessive time off is on the rise. As hard as I try to be accomodating, it's never enough. I get it. But companies still have to run.

    The morale issue is real. Absenteeism does put a great strain on other staff, and finding motivated employees in this market is very difficult. The demands on companies are very high with little appreciation. I find that all the perks, gym memberships, bonuses and raises have a short shelf life with most employees. People need to be here and working and take the appropriate time off alloted for PTO. We are very generous with PTO, but its seems to be never enough.

  29. Anonymous

    I hear you, Lisa and agree. Employees are much more demanding post Covid and much harder to please. I nostalgically think back to a time when a person sat in an interview and agreed to sell 8 hours per weekday of their time and talent to a company in exchange for a set amount of money and then both parties kept their word. The relationship between an employer and an employee was a straightforward give and take. If either the employer or the employee didn’t hold up their part of the agreement as it was written, they parted ways.

    My company is also very generous with paid time off. 7 weeks of unrestricted, immediately available leave for the lowest, newest man on the totem pole. That doesn’t include perks like maternity/paternity leave, compassionate leave, disability absences, or absences related to domestic abuse. It’s still not enough for some staff. Employees like to say that “life happens” and employers should be understanding when unexpected things arise. Fine. Is the employee going to be just as understanding when rampant absenteeism costs the company the contracts that were supposed to finance cost-of-living raises?

  30. Ayian

    Please define excessive time off? I'm 38 and have literally had 1 10 day vacation my whole career. I'm now looking for 3 weeks annually. What's excessive to you? Are you aware that in Europe, 3 to 4 weeks is standard, even for McDonald's employees?

  31. Anonymous

    Sounds like Europe would be a great place for you.

  32. Ayian

    It sounds like you're one of these 'love it or leave' fascists. I'm indigenous and sick of people being taken advantage of and worked to death. We can do better.

  33. Ayian

    Woah woah woah back up here. She "pulls the sickness card"? First of all, you're aware that long COVID is a thing, right? Even if that's not it, her medical condition is not your concern. Certainly leaving in the middle of a shift can put a pinch on the team, but unless she's told you what her deal is, you have no idea if she's "faking it" or not. Many illnesses are invisible from the outside. HR wouldn't be "afraid of a lawsuit" over undocumented issues.

  34. Anonymous

    FMLA has limitations. Employers are not required to extend indefinite leave or flexibility to employees, because at the end of the day, work still has to get done. There needs to be a formal FMLA agreement in place. That guarantees 12 weeks of leave each calendar year, without being able to terminate due to the covered absences. Still doesn't require that you tolerate poor performance on the job, just a minimum level of poor attendance. If absences go beyond the 12 weeks, you have the option of terminating (again, under the federal law though your individual workplace can go above and beyond). We have the option to extend for another 12 weeks, which is only approved when the supervisor is pushing hard (so typically only for high performers with a high chance of being back full time).

  35. Anonymous

    I’ve been an absent employee.
    I’m typically a rockstar employee. My last company was toxic and I was completely disengaged. I’m not proud of it, but it was so hard to be motivated with continual bullying and no real support from management. Pandemic did not help. Disengagement is one of the primary reasons for absenteeism. Bad managers are one of the primary reasons employees switch jobs. It doesn’t sound like bad management is the cause in this case, but I wanted to make this point to other managers on this thread. I’m now back to being a rockstar in a supportive, amazing company and feeling like my old self again. Point here is that sometimes it’s not the employee.

  36. Vanda Lee

    What a coincidence this popped up today....

    I am turning in my notice as a manager today because of an onsight employee who has been written up multiple times and HR & my leadership will not follow thru with termination. Let's just say she's the spoon that keeps multiple issues stirred up and abuses the attendance policies. She sent me a scathing text on my personal phone the last time I sent her to HR (after yet again another documentation of extremely aggressive behavior) and they're sitting on the fence about termination. I told them I would be out until she was off because I will no longer manger her. Today will be my last day. I will not have my years of managing people be undermined by leaders. They either see my value as a leader and trust my management skills or they can keep her.

  37. Kim Raper

    Kudos to you for standing up for your principals. I have never understood why some folks are terminated and others are not when its clear that some need to go. Best of luck to you in your next steps.

  38. Anonymous

    Well said. I wish you continued Success and know you'll be Valued at a new opportunity!

  39. Amy Carissa Oliver

    What you had was “poor managers” and not “leaders.” I’m so sorry that you had that experience and didn’t get support to solve a problem that was hurting productivity. I’m glad you put yourself, and your sanity, first.

  40. Lisa Williams

    I know that remote employees already have a LOT of flexibility. They are difficult to manage in certain situations. It sounds as if you gave her every opportunity to get it together and do better.

  41. Anonymous

    They are hardly managed at all. And it's unfair to those who have to commute and be there in person every single day.

  42. Marie Hart

    All the time. The problem I find is if they weren't productive when they were in office, remote work isn't going to go well, for them. I find holding them accountable along the way keeps them on point.

    When people see you holding someone accountable it tends to ensure the masses to fly right.

  43. Anonymous

    I feel a few things.

    I’m always rooting for employees vs the people with all the power. I don’t like strict rules/hours if employees are getting their work done.

    However, I sense you feel for this person at least a little since you posted about it. It sounds like they had an opportunity to change and they decided this particular job was not for them. So much can be going on with people. It’s tough to say why they may have been disengaged with their job. I myself have been checked out many times at work. Anyway, this sounds like a case of you tried and they probably just need a job that’s a better fit for them. I say you’re both off the hook.

    I want to vent a little too. I worked from home for the first year and half of the pandemic. I never clocked in late. Never. Not once. I now work in person (I wish I didn’t) and I literally work every minute of my shift and we don’t take lunch. I’m being watched all day by my boss who works closely with me in person and by the owner watching what we do remotely. She knows when emails aren’t responded to in real time. If we don’t respond it’s because we are busy with people in person and a million other things.

    The point being is when people are closely watched it can create a lot of tension and people behave differently and not want to work.

    Then I also get a little frustrated by work from home people who can’t even bother to clock in, my thoughts are clock in and at least do the bare minimum.

    It’s tough, employers can be too rigid on monitoring and employees can work from home and not clock in.

    The middle ground I’d like to see is employers trusting their employees and employees doing what is fair aka agreeing to work the hours they are paid for.

  44. Anonymous

    Dear one, I feel for you! PLEASE take your lunch break!!!!

  45. Anonymous

    What was the work product that needed to be delivered, and how was she being measured against those results? It sounds like clock watching was going on for sure, what what about actual performance management and development?

  46. A Smith

    This is also demotivating for other employees who are working to make sure they get tasks completed and are watching as some people are allowed to “check out”. Leaders must be aware that others on the team are watching how they react to these situations.

  47. Anonymous

    If others on your team are concerned with what their colleagues are doing, you’ve got much bigger problems.

  48. Amy Carissa Oliver

    I agree completely with you. I call this “looking to the sides.” I’ve counseled numerous young staff over the years to never look to the sides but to look forward.

    I handle each of my staff entirely differently because they are individuals who need a different response. What they’re going through as a professional and individual is nobody’s business but theirs and mine, and maybe HR. What some people take for “checked out” has been for different staff, over the course of my career: a miscarriage, a cancer diagnosis, the onset of bipolar disorder, death of a former spouse/their child’s mom, the need for training in a specific skill set, trouble with a colleague (so many times!), not sleeping well, stuck in a rut, abuse at home, questioning themselves/loss of confidence, overworked, etc. There are a lot of reasons people check out.

    I’m so blessed right now to have staff that, when a colleague checked out, they noticed but instead of “looking sideways” they formed a support circle and ALL said, “Hey, I noticed so and so is a little off lately, is there anything I can do? Take on some projects to give them a break? Swap projects to give them something new? Please let me know how I can help.”

    We need less looking to the sides and more collaboration,

  49. Anonymous

    I'm consistently tardy usually about 5 to 15 minutes. But I also stay over about the same amount if time. I don't think I'm a bad employee, but I'm also not a morning person and I try to retain as much of my private time as possible and given the variable state of traffic and the awful state of transportation and parking at my workplace I won't be on time unless I leave an hour early. It is what it is. I dont think 5 min should matter as long as I work 5 over and no one is waiting on me to relieve then or for an appointment.

  50. Anonymous

    on the other hand (and I'm asking to the broader audience...do you and I have a right to dictate what the "rules" are regarding what time we start? If a business says that I must be working at 8 AM, seems like i don't get to decide that starting at 8:10 is "ok" or not...even if I do work overtime. I don't make the rules. My employer does.

  51. Anonymous

    When we are hired, we sign in agreement to the employer's hiring protocols which includes start and end times dictated by the employer. Integrity in the little things. Respecting the employer and your coworkers enough to show up on time, regardless of petty excuses (I'm not a morning person; I have a 7 minute grace period; my dog ate my homework...). Grow up, people!! Unless your boss gives you permission to have a flexible schedule, then you don't get to just make your own hours to whatever is convenient for you! Of course employers should allow for flexibility and support of their employees when needed. Being late and not being available during work hours is just selfish. All these responses of people who think their work time is their own time... you are stealing from your employer if you are not getting your job done due to lack of being present (wfh or in person) during your expected hours.

    Note: Aside from the obvious, of course every employee is entitled to two breaks and meal break during any 8 hr period).

  52. Amy Carissa Oliver

    I think this is an interesting response. Employees in America are often exempt, which means that the employer can make them work extra hours or expect them to answer calls and emails on weekends and in the evening without extra remuneration. And yet, employees are derided for being 5 minutes late and are called childish or thieves or whatever. Shouldn’t the respect be mutual? If the employer wants 8-5 exactly with a lunch break at Noon exactly, then shouldn’t the employer also be obligated to honor that to a T? No asking employees to work special events or come to meetings outside of hours or to stay 15 minutes late or to take a shorter lunch.

    As a supervisor I tell my staff that I pay them for a specific number of hours so if they worked more than that then they should go ahead and reduce their schedule the following week. Equity is important in that way. I don’t sweat the clock with my staff and I find that their work has never been impacted. We have some required meetings and we all agreed on the time, and they show up to them and they’re engaged. I try to be flexible wherever possible because we can run Mt Doom with our workload sometimes, and we also have colleagues in nearly every time zone in the world so we occasionally draw the short stick for meetings and project deadlines; I’ve had more 4am meetings than I would like.

    I guess I’m trying to reason out the point of view that you have on this; we have incredibly different views. My team is fortunate to not have to do jobs that really require a set 9-5, and I love being able to give them the flexibility that I can because I know their jobs require them to be pretty flexible, too.

    Isn’t there room for businesses to offer more relaxation and flexibility since companies often ask so much of their staff?

  53. Anonymous

    Your sense of entitlement is glaring.

    Don't be crying when you don't get raises and promotions.

    You're part of a team and you're not pulling your full weight or following the start time your colleagues are following. Shame on you!

    (Obviously you have a lot of growing up to do!)

  54. Ayian

    Obviously, you have a lot of micromanaging to grow out of! Do your coworkers get tired of your holier than thou, uptight attitude? I'm tired already and I don't even work with you.

    https://productivityhub.org/2019/06/07/scientists-say-that-starting-work-before-10am-is-similar-to-torture

  55. Anonymous

    Person who posted this here.

    And you're pretty rude. I have an office job. I don't have anyone who waits on me to meet me. I'm also available by phone and email and I've come in on weekends to help people out. If I had an appointment or someone to meet, I would 100% be on time, but if not I'm not going to stress about 5 minutes. Not sure why you disparaged me over it. Or why you think I'm not pulling my weight. Somehow being 5 minutes late (when technically there's a 7 min grace period) equates to me being entitled...ummm okay.

    And I've gotten raises because I've worked my a** off. My boss even said they don't really care that much as long as it's less than 15 min. They just want excellent and accurate work.

  56. Anonymous

    Wow, that DOES make you a bad employee.
    Tardies get you fired, it doesn’t matter how much you make it up. Start times are in place for a reason. If you’re not a morning person, find a job that starts later. Something tells me you’d still be tardy though.

  57. Ayian

    Wow, this DOES indicate you'd be a workplace tyrant. They get their job done and stays as long as they were late. That's not a bad employee. Start times only matter if you're in a customer facing position that no one else does.

    There's neuroscience and genetics behind not being a morning person and most office jobs start at 8 for no particular reason. Studies indicate that starting work before 10am in the first place is brain torture. https://productivityhub.org/2019/06/07/scientists-say-that-starting-work-before-10am-is-similar-to-torture/

    Please go get some education around circadian rhythms.

  58. Anonymous

    Person who posted here. Actually when I worked nights I was on time.

    Also I make myself available as soon as my start time is via mobile app, phone email etc. I check my work email on the weekends and at night even though I'm not asked to. I'm just not physically in my office at the start time. I'm usually in the building but walking towards the office. Or I'm in the parking lot.

    I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult or a bad person. I try to do my actual job well. I apologize if my lateness offends you.

  59. Anonymous

    It's demoralizing for others so I understand. Too bad you aren't a manager where I work... I work at a college that has departments where the majority work from home M-F. Among these depts. are: IT , Finance and HR. They frequently ignore email requests/inquiries from those of us who are actually here. In person. Every day. Commuting 45 minutes each way (in my case). My dept. has been more vocal lately because of the glaring and obvious lack of equity (and this little private institution PRIDES itself on equity and inclusion but their actions and policies speak otherwise). So my point is, it's demoralizing for me to have to work harder than I should because I am forced to rely on people who are WFH and laid-back (at best).

  60. Anonymous

    There are more jobs available than qualified employees right now.
    Have you considered moving to a WFH position yourself or maybe just stay in your own lane and worry about yourself. I guarantee those of us who WFH aren't worried about what you're doing all day. We're too busy minding our business, meeting our deadlines and exceeding our quotas.

  61. Anonymous

    I AM "worrying about myself." The issue becomes my business for people like me who DEPEND on the WFH depts who completely GHOST our emails! So actually I AM "minding my business." If you can't even reply to email requests from your colleagues then I doubt there is enough of a work ethic to "exceed quotas." I actually respond to people whether I am busy or not so it's not unreasonable to expect the same. And what makes you think I haven't been looking? BTW the trend lately is LESS available jobs. Companies are starting to freeze hiring and are even laying people off.

  62. Jana Grazer

    I will admit toxic work culture is part of the reason I have been absent in the past in a remote position.

  63. Millie Mardahay

    Haha appreciate the sarcasm

  64. Anonymous

    This is why companies are instructing their employees to return back to the office.

    Too many employees are abusing the privilege of WFH.

  65. Ayian

    Those employees who are "abusing" it aren't being given boundaries and held to them or they would have gotten in order or been relieved of duty. Companies are returning to the office because it's a big boy power & control thing more than anything.

  66. Kimberly Worrick

    I worked remotely for most of the pandemic. My team did too. We were all logged in, on time, each day as if we were in the office. We were actually more productive than being in the office. That said, I find, personally, the above behavior appalling and agree terminating her after giving multiple chances to correct her behavior was the right thing to do.

  67. Donna Hunt

    Wow! 19 hours logged off, there is no excuse for that, with the exception of illness or tragedy. But, I must say that it's important to also consider that the employee was unhappy and just didn't care, sometimes, the chemistry between managers and team members doesn't mix. I believe strongly that if you take care of your employees, they will take care of your business. Also, she may have already been divested from the position because she was already on an improvement plan. Thanks for sharing.

  68. Anonymous

    Well, you terminated this employee for his/her many excuses. and yes, this is a lame excuse..but this is why the person is now unemployed, right? I am a healthcare provider and we had another provider on staff who "negotiated" fully remote work (unfair to the rest of us, but...)....This provider literally didn't show up for telehealth appointments, on a weekly basis. There was alot this individual did NOT do and it still took the company about a year to let this individual go. In the meantime, three other providers and myself left their employment. As others have stated...this happens in every industry, at every level (some worse than others) and if it's not addressed by management, it's completely unfair and demoralizing to those who are doing the job. You did the right thing.

  69. Anonymous

    I read this response and came away questioning why you feel that your colleague working fully remote is unfair to you and the rest of the staff? Couldn’t you also “negotiate” for a more flexible schedule? While we’re here, why did you put quotation marks around the word negotiate… is that supposed to be a euphemism or something?

  70. Anonymous

    Thank you

  71. Patricia McCrindle

    I have had the opposite experience with the team I manage across US, Mexico and China. We have all been remote since beginning of pandemic and working longer schedules with early morning and late night conference calls as is the nature of our business. Due to our challenging schedules, I offer flexibility during the day whenever it's an option without an impact to our project oriented deliverables. That said, there is no way anyone in my team could be offline 19 hours without it being a PTO/vacation day. When I am recruiting for an open position, I am clear upfront when recruiting on the nature of our project oriented work and expectations on schedule. Sounds like in your case appropriate action was taken. I am actually concerned when we return to office full time our productivity is going to take a hit.

  72. Anonymous

    This is so true (about the hit to productivity RTO).
    I am way more productive from home but when forced to RTO believe my PC will stay there! After the commute, gas, tolls, walkup distractions, unnecessary socializing, etc. They will get no more than 8 hrs of my day.

  73. Anonymous

    Based on the information provided, I feel you followed the pre-established policies regarding both attendance and disciplinary action. As part of a management team at my company, we are expecting our employees to do the same thing hybrid as they do in the office and the same policies apply. In the office we are expected to be available via our instant chats so when an employee is working remotely, the same applies. We do not require camera time for meetings but during the pandemic we strongly encouraged it but not so much now that we are hybrid. Our start and end times vary so even in the office, there is flexibility to start from 7a - 9am and work until your shift is over, which is the same for hybrid. We are not strict on the 8am start but if you come in at 8:07 you are late, however starting at noon versus 9am is unacceptable. While we do understand that life happens, the employee needs to communicate this to their manager. I recently experienced an injury and after taking meds, I could not get myself together until around 3pm so that is when I started my day, which was communicated to my manager. This was only for a few days but there was communication and expectations were set.

    Fortunately our department has not experienced anything like this but I do know people at other companies who run all their errands during the day while working remote and I have no clue how they catch up with their work.

  74. Anonymous

    I'd like you to consider your response here. You said that coming in at noon would be unacceptable (and did not imply there were exceptions), but later in the same post stated that you were able to negotiate a 3 pm start time for a period. So later than 9 am is entirely acceptable, when it's you. But when it's someone else, it's "unacceptable."

    Many people have the bias that their own situation requiring flexibility is a result of circumstances, but if anyone else does, it's due to a character flaw. That is, our own difficulties are due to changeable circumstance, but the difficulties of others are fixed, and mostly their own fault.

    I'm fully remote. I work very hard, and so do my colleagues. Nobody is taking chunks of time off in the middle of the day, unless they need to, and then they tell us they are taking a sick day. They do that because they feel safe saying that they need a sick day. They also have the freedom to work all over the world, which means we have to be transparent about timezones and working out when we can overlap. I start at 7 am to accommodate colleagues in South Africa, and our colleagues in Australia start at 7 am to accommodate colleagues on the east coast. You know what we do? We figure it out together. We push back and negotiate new times in cases when we have ended up with meetings at 7 am and 5 pm. We manage our own calendars and behave like adults. We meet our objectives and take regular vacation, all while working remotely.

    Flexibility, productivity, and cooperation go hand in hand. You have to scope and define objectives clearly so you can measure without subjective bias. You have to communicate clearly. It's entirely possible to be very successful remotely, but it requires discipline by management as well as employees. Management needs to get used to the obligation of setting clear expectations, and then let employees meet them. If they can't, then that's a different conversation, but it's not relevant whether you start work at 3 pm or 9 am as long as you can meet your objectives, as you yourself are doing.

  75. Anonymous

    You could always ask those people how they manage to be so efficient that they're able to get all of their personal and professional work done on time. Perhaps you could learn some techniques for working as efficiently as they do.

  76. Anonymous

    Great response

  77. Anonymous

    I'm a VP of a dynamic marketing department. Our team has a hybrid work environment spanning from 100% in office to 100% WFH. In the spring, we had an enterprise-wide recognition week, a big external event and 2 massive design projects. Those in the office were really stressed out because they didn't feel like there were enough hands on deck to facilitate the recognition week and that those working from home were MIA - not responding to Teams chats or emails. It doesn't help when you have fires to put out on campus and the Teams chat for the group has those WFH talking about different flavors of peanut butter. You told her what you needed, she didn't do it. You allowed flexibility but with that comes responsibility. You shouldn't feel bad. I think sometimes we sacrifice business needs or team dynamics in order to allow flexibility. I love WFH...but with guardrails and expectations.

  78. Ayian

    You had an enterprise-wide event and didn't ensure you had adequate labor to pull it off without fires and are blaming the people who you already knew had gone remote for not being present to help. Are you hearing how entitled and passive aggressive you are here? The working conditions changed, the expectations changed, and your staffing for this external event...didn't, so you're trying to place the blame on people who were remote, as agreed. Would you still be upset if they had volunteered to come in? What you communicated seems to imply that you would have been appeased.

    It sounds more like you failed to plan than you sacrificed anything.

  79. Anonymous

    Didn’t really have to do with staffing the event. We didn’t have a staffing issue. It had to do with being completely out of touch with others on the team. And having no empathy or compassion for the situation. My point is that when you WFH, you can be oblivious to others’ challenges. Much easier to ignore at home.

  80. Anonymous

    Love this response

  81. Anonymous

    There are a couple of things that really bother me with this. It reads as though this employee is protected under the ADA and made a proper request for reasonable accommodations. (You alluded to the accommodations she requested to be successful.)

    As a woman veteran, navigating the civilian workforce with a 90% service connected disability for over 20 years now, I know how difficult it can be just to share your need for accommodations. The strength it takes to be that vulnerable, exposing the Achilles heel and asking for help can be very triggering. I’ve always felt very alone throughout as the way the process is set up, you as the employee are your only advocate while HR, the ADA coordinator and your manager quite frequently feel like a hostile collective. Despite being fully qualified, I’ve doubted my own abilities and even questioned my diagnosis and needs for accommodation throughout this process while also feeling targeted and unsupported.

    Your post also reads as though you didn’t like having your (micromanaging) authority challenged and essentially harassed and then took adverse employment action against her when she was directly asking for understanding, flexibility and a little bit of trust that she is capable of managing her disability and her workload.

    To be quite frank, I’m ‘appalled’ at your pathetic attempt to rally support for your immature and ineffective management style. Maybe devote some that time you are spending reviewing sign on logs to a professional development course.

  82. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    Once you’re done taking the words out of my head, please send me a PM. I was just recently terminated from a job in response to my requests for accommodations and I would love to chat with you further about your experiences.

  83. Laura S

    Lorna, would love to talk to you about your goals.

  84. Sage Fraser

    Feel free to reach out to me too, if desired. I’m well versed on ADA accommodations, the interactive process, and Discriminatory / wrongful terminations.

  85. Anonymous

    I'm appalled at your response, so there is that. I didn't see any sort of micromanaging from her post, it does read as someone who has been relegated to hall monitor instead of being able to do her job. If someone is actively being coached and still continues to do the same actions, the problem is the employee, not the person who manages her.

  86. Anonymous

    Agree. The response was uncalled for. I too am "appalled" at the way this person attacked the original poster.

  87. Harmony Brenner

    I completely understand what you mean. One of the reasons I wanted to work at home was because my chair in the office hurt my body. It literally left marks on me that did not go away until I had at least 2 days off in a row (weekends).

    In retrospect, I should have asked for a different chair as a reasonable accommodation, but I was too embarrassed. Now I think I would have asked, but that took years to get to this point.

  88. Anonymous

    I have one who is routinely MIA and seems to do his work at night since that’s when I hear from him. We are remote but transitioning the RTO to become hybrid. Our hours are the normal 8-5 so his nighttime stunt makes me question if he’s moonlighting.

  89. Anonymous

    If he's doing his work why do you care if he is moonlighting? Maybe he has bills to pay or is supporting a family member with health issues? Have you spoken with him?

  90. tsfaison

    I think before asking why does she care, maybe get the details of the situation. It could be a job where they’re helping customers and their business hours are 8 to 5. So she needs to reach out to him for an answer for something for her customer or something that has to be done on account . If that is the case, he should be available during those work hours. An account or customer should not have to wait until the next day or for that minute matter any work that needs to be done. I see a lot of people saying so what if they’re not logged in at a certain time. The reality is you were hired for a job for a certain work shift. If you transitioned from in office to WFH and were not told that you could be flexible with your work hours, then you need to show up those hours. It is up to the employee to have a conversation with their manager asking if they can be more flexible with log ins. If your shift is regularly 9 to 5 and now you are working from home, you could say to the manager listen as long as I get my work done by five does my computer have to be logged in right at 9 o’clock? There needs to be communication on both sides.

  91. Anonymous

    Now this is the best response yet. Some posters jumped on the original poster like they were anti-WFH when in fact it could be that the job requires the associate to be logged in during a certain time.

  92. Anonymous

    Can you explain your use of the phrase "stunt" to characterize this employee's work performance? It feels pejorative because the post admits that he gets his work done, it just happens to be at night. Why is it a "stunt" for him to work at night? Is there something in his job contract that prohibits him from working more than one job?

  93. Ayian

    Many people have circadian rhythm disruptions encoded into their DNA. Colloquially, we refer to some people with these disruptions as night owls, but it's a complex series of biochemical processes in the brain. For people who naturally do better later in the day, it's a real struggle to be awake, let alone functional before their bioclock says it's time to be awake.

    If your issue with them is that you want a response during your working hours, address that with them. You might even explore if they could have a later set of in-office hours when you go hybrid. Frankly, unless group in person efforts are necessary or physical papers must be touched, it's financially smarter not to have an empty building for 10 to 12 hours of every day.

    Anything else is none of your business, including if they have another job, unless you are the person who has the authority to increase their pay rate.

  94. Anonymous

    This seems to be an expectations related issue. Unless there is a no moonlighting policy in this person's work contract and have set hours to be working, this should not be an issue.

  95. Anonymous

    Readers Digest version of my experience - I encountered this same situation and followed the same steps, after accommodating my former team member for a period of two years. Listening to her and making every effort to support her with personal matters that were continually coming up since her hire date, I had her add in downtime to her daily calendar in addition to her hour lunch. I ensured she had access to all of the support channels available through our company and benefits program, which are phenomenal. But had to move to a PIP and set up touchpoint meetings throughout the week for 1:1 time. Despite all of this during her PIP period, my BA was MIA on a major role out she was leading; I had to jump in and save the day/face for our team. There was another occasion I was trying to reach her to discover she was sleeping for three hours during our workday. After reviewing this with her and following up in writing; she replied to the email and viciously attacked me and my character. It shook me to my core. HR was beyond supportive in the final actions to terminate her employment. Sadly, some people feel very entitled; in those cases, you absolutely have to work with HR and follow your corporate playbook for the safety of ALL parties AND your company. And yes, it is also sad because situations like this can ruin WFH programs for team members who are truly high performers in a WFH setting in addition to the personal life story.

  96. Ayian

    The few "ruining" things for the many is a false narrative. There are always candidates who are misaligned with expectations, competencies, and culture. You don't stop hiring new talent because they might turn out to be a bad fit, you simply accept that not everyone is the right fit in the first place. If remote work is "ruined" by poor performers, then the company was never committed to remote work in the first place.

  97. Anonymous

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but though my current employer and past employers have allowed WFH prior to the pandemic, some teams within those companies have not allowed this option because of situations like these being shared here. It is not a false narrative in my 30 years of experience working in a corporate environment.

  98. Amy Carissa Oliver

    Hi there! I am a manager and all of my staff are remote, and only one of them has the option to go into the office. I know that being a supervisor is difficult, and sometimes it’s the absolute worst (and nobody really appreciates that), especially when there is a staff member struggling or that has to be terminated.

    This doesn’t sound like the employee was MIA because they were remote. It sounds like they’re an employee who was struggling with the job requirements and competencies, and perhaps became a bit disengaged as a result of that.

    I saw your original post and a note you made later in the comments.

    In comments, you’ve indicated that the employee in question was doing subpar work and not completing assignments, and that they were also lying on their time card. These are all very valid reasons to terminate someone’s employment. I really want to help you as you consider some things during the search for a replacement so you don’t end up in the same place. So what I’m writing below is more about the original post you made, which was confusing because it’s not really about your employee’s capability or functionality.

    1- It sounds like this job didn’t really require the employee to be logged into the internal system to do their job effectively. It also sounds like they maybe didn’t always need their computer to do parts of their job. As a supervisor that’s a pretty big consideration to make because some people do research better from their mobile device, or they need time to sit and think things out on paper. If the job doesn’t have to be done while fully logged in, then requiring it could create a path to failure for certain types of employees. As you look to hire a new person, consider whether this is actually required, either by the company or by you. If it’s just by you, this is an area you may need to practice flexibility.

    2- It sounds like this job doesn’t really have to done from 9-5. If that’s the case, then this may be an area for you to practice flexibility. I have a staff member with ADD who can get derailed by the sighting of a bird through the window… for hours. They sometimes work at 2pm or 8pm or midnight. I know this because my staff tell me everything; they do that because they trust me not to get upset or annoyed. My only concern is that they show up as their best self so they can rock the job I hired them to do. If that means waiting until it is dark and birds can’t be a distraction then okay.

    3- The employees you are checking up on are always going to be less productive and less successful than the ones you’re not hawk-watching. That’s because everybody screws up, but you only see it if you’re watching. This is compounded by PIPs. As a supervisor, it’s so frustrating to have to put someone on a PIP, and it is stressful for everyone involved. But it will never be more stressful for the supervisor than for the employee. Already struggling, now there’s a target on their back. That’s because when managers use PIPs it’s our responsibility to create pathways to success, but without really ardent commitment, they go sideways and rather than help employees, the PIPs just hasten their termination. A PIP should be an opportunity for a manager to look at areas for improvement and then help the employee achieve each of them in a reasonable way, but usually what happens is that the employee is just told to do better, and that’s extremely arbitrary and terrifying and demoralizing. In this case, it sounds like it went sideways. Instead of focusing on getting the employee to a place where they were creating good work product and finishing projects on time, which appeared to be your primary concerns, the PIP put you on the exhausting path of micromanaging their clock-in and clock-out when that really had nothing to do with the problem. No wonder you were fed up. As you look to hire a new person, consider what they might need to be successful and talk to them up front about what constitutes good work product, what training is available, and what the KPIs are for their success in the workplace. Meet with them weekly to make sure they’re getting the hang of it (but let them guide those needs), and provide the support to elevate them to that place of competence.

    4- Try not to go to the worst place first. You mentioned that your employee was lying on their time card; calling out sick and then logging time worked. Rather than assume they are lying, there are some considerations to make. The American work culture requires a type of self-preservation that means logging in to check email even when you’re lying on the beach in Antigua or enjoying Sunday brunch with friends, or when you’re vomiting every 20 minutes. That typically leads to also answering those emails and then doing the ”oh well they just need these two documents and if I don’t handle it now then I won’t have time on Monday/when I get back” approach. Our work culture is bananas at best, and abusive at worst. Before assuming any employee, but particularly one who is on a PIP and about to lose their job, is lying, consider that they may be desperately trying to save themselves. I regularly say to my team, “If you’re working more hours than you are scheduled, or you’re feeling that you have to work on sick days or days off or that you can’t take vacation then please talk to me. That’s not how it’s supposed to be.” It’s my job as the supervisor to create an environment where my staff can say they don’t understand, they don’t have the right training, they’re overwhelmed or we’ve overbooked their workflow. It's also my job to notice those things even if they don’t tell me. Part of how I do this is making their 1-1s “their time.” I’m not there to talk to them about the work they’ve been assigned unless that’s what they want to talk about. I’m there to listen to what they need, how they feel, what’s going right, what’s going wrong. And usually, I also bring up the “work-life balance” discussion and see where they take it. My relationship to my team is the first thing I prioritize because work has to work for the organization but also for the people who work there.

    I really genuinely hope this helps.

  99. Joan Baker

    You sound like an extraordinary thoughtful, professional, and compassionate supervisor. We should all be so lucky as to have a supervisor like you.

    Thank you for taking the time to type out this response. I hope lots of people read it and learn from it.

  100. Christi Lopez

    Such a perfect, well-written response. We really need more managers like you.

  101. Anonymous

    You're incorrect in your assumption about her role. Her position required her to be online between 9-5

  102. Anonymous

    This didn't help. I understand you were just trying to help but since you're not aware of the total circumstances you're absolutely wrong in your assumptions. She actually admitted to lying on her timecard and other matters and was still given many chances. We create a transparent, open environment where we invite employees to share any issues etc they're experiencing. I even suggested to her that she may want to consider taking a paid leave which she rejected. We have employee counseling and other tools which she availed and still remained unproductive and absentee. Please consider that you may not have all of the facts before you attempt to condescendingly lecture someone. You wrote a book although you didn't have all of the facts.

  103. Amy Carissa Oliver

    You are the OP so it is your responsibility to provide us with the details. You did not, so you got responses based on what you did provide. Your negative behavior to my response tells me everything I need to know about the situation and I hope your former employee finds a more suitable work environment.

  104. Anonymous

    This feels like an attempt to collect anti-WFH “evidence.”

  105. Anonymous

    Exactly. Managers who want their employees in the office when they can easily work from home are more about control than anything.

  106. Anonymous

    Wrong. In this case it was my idea to allow her to work from home and she abused it.

  107. Anonymous

    If such confidence, why post?

  108. Anonymous

    Not at all

  109. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    Were her tasks tied to time of day? I have always had trouble with this idea of when people are supposed to be at work if it doesn't matter because of the tasks they do. If she wasn't completing her tasks, that's definitely an issue, but if she was working well but at different hours than others, is that truly a problem?

  110. Anonymous

    it is a problem if the company asks for her to be working during a particular time Frame. I think people have this all wrong. Since when we do we get to dictate what is okay...or not...based upon our opinion, rather than what the employer asks of us?

  111. Anonymous

    Exactly. She took the job knowing she had to be available 9-5.

  112. Anonymous

    Wouldn't mind different hours if the position allowed for it. However her position required her to be online at set times. Work was not getting done and others had to pick up slack.

  113. Anonymous

    Yes her tasks were tied to time of day

  114. Anonymous

    I have several co-workers who went from in office to WFH and now take 2-3 weeks to respond to emails. It makes me crazy but management doesn't seem to care. All of their timecards show they are working massive amounts of overtime. Management just doesn't care.

  115. Anonymous

    My entire company went completely WFH when the pandemic hit. Some of us have always worked remotely and those who live in the metro areas where our offices are located had been working from the office. When the pandemic started, the company went completely remote for quite some time. The company now has a policy where those who feel comfortable working from the office can do so. Nobody slacked off when working remotely. Everyone worked/works hard and was/are always available during normal business hours and even beyond. That continues to this day. So, not everyone goes MIA when they work remotely. There are a few people in the world that might do that and those individuals should be dealt with accordingly. But it wouldn’t be wise to just assume that everyone who works remote slacks off or goes MIA. In my career, I have actually worked with slackers who are in the office everyday.

  116. Anonymous

    No one said that everyone who works remotely goes MIA. Please re-read the original post.

  117. Anonymous

    The MIA comment was in the comments. I know it was not in the original post. Please re-read the comments.

  118. Anonymous

    As other posters have said, the real question is whether the employee is getting their work done. There’s an employee at my job who is loved because she ‘works so hard’. She’s the only one in the department to have been given permanent work from home. And yet I’ve found her watching Judge Judy numerous times when we’ve logged into Teams meetings, so she’s obviously not actually ‘working’ the hours she claims she is (her job wouldn’t allow dual concentration like this). She does usually get her job done, though, so she’s literally throwing away her time on tv but is perceived as being dedicated and hard-working. Equally, I usually put in 9-10 hours on wfh days. But sometimes my internet connection shows as offline for whatever reason - this doesn’t mean I’m not working. But if someone were watching my time, they may think I’m working the bare minimum.

    The thing is, your job as a manager is NOT to be a babysitter. This is an archaic view of management. One person may have to work 12 hours to complete their job, another person may only have to work 6. A good manager recognizes this. I find it interesting that you comment on your employee’s absenteeism without mentioning whether they actually get their work done. Work is not about how long you can attach your behind to a chair; it’s about achieving a goal. Now the employee’s performance may not be up to par, but THIS is what you should be addressing, not calculating the minutes attached to the chair.

    I’ll use an example. My 7 year old HATES to clean her room. I told her she had to clean for one hour. She did. You know how much got done? Like 3 toys. Next time, I said she had to empty one box (about 20 toys) and put everything away, which took her about 20 minutes because she wanted to go outside and play. Which method achieved my objectives of getting her room clean? The latter. Basic human psychology. I’ll never understand clock-watchers…

  119. Anonymous

    Read prior response, she wasn't getting her work done. Others had to pick up the slack

  120. Anonymous

    “Read prior response”…no need to get ugly here.

  121. Anonymous

    Exactly. Some aren't reading they're just spouting their I'll informed opinions.

  122. Lisa Marie

    Pre-Xactly what you said.

    Clock-watching gives an indication of the OPs management style... and it's not favorable.

    SOME managers (and some are here in this forum) are *untruthful and petty.* Some have an archaic approach to work. Some cause really valuable employees to not want to be at work.

  123. Valentina Huang, MBA, SHRM-CP

    Employees should never be surprised when they are terminated.

    If you have had a 1-on-1 discussion with them about their absenteeism and their delayed start time on many occasions, please be sure they are all documented and on record. If you've made accommodations to support them, this should also be documented and the employee should sign/acknowledge these adjustments. It's basically a Improvement Plan.

    There should also be several meetings to discuss improvement. And if after all of that, there's still no improvement, then the termination is justified and the employee should see it coming. A termination should never be a surprise, if it is, then that becomes the fault of the manager/supervisor.

    Now, I've also managed folks that manned telephone lines; front lines with the customer; so their attendance and timeliness was critical to the business. I'm not sure what role this person holds, but I would also evaluate based on whether or not they are getting their job done. I don't think that someone needs to be in front of their computer all day during business hours just to "look like they are working". If they are getting their job done, but just on different hours then that may need to be taken into consideration. On the flip side, if they are missing deadlines and/or meetings that affect the success of the business, that's a major call out and should be brought to their attention.

    Out of curiosity, what has her reason/explanation(s) been for the other absences? She can only use the 'sleep' mode excuse once.

  124. Anonymous

    Everything that you reiterated was done. Her termination was not a surprise. I too don't expect eyeballs on the computer just for the sake of it. Her job required her to be online answering grievances, when she failed to show up on several occasions it meant that others had to pick up the slack. Her prior excuses have been (1) her cat jumped on her laptop (even though she assured us the laptop would be in a safe place, (2) she overslept but it wouldn't happen again, (3) she had to pick up a relative at the airport (4) she was helping out another department (this turned out to be a lie), (5) she was tired (6) she had an early morning appointment and the time got away from her....there are so many more excuses

  125. Valentina Huang, MBA, SHRM-CP

    Glad to hear all was documented. can’t tell you how many times managers forget to do this step and it comes back to bite them.

    Wow! I’ve heard my share of reasons/excuses so I’m not surprised from these. Clearly this employee was checked out and they did not feel like “adding value” to the organization. It was probably time for them to leave.

  126. Bradford McCormick

    I have no way to judge your ciecumstances. I can only tell a story. There are generally exceptions to every rule.

    I was working for IBM R&D in 1979. On 2nd shift I once mat an employee who was shooting the breeze in jeans with another employeee who was extremely competent, but not like this man. He worked in a place I called "Purgatory". You did not want to work there if you could help it. He came to work sometimes, probably dressed in those jeans. Rumor had it he grew house plants in his basement. He had only a high school education. Your ideal employee, right? Well, why did IBM tolerate this "wild duck"? For a very simple reason: He recoded computer programs for computer chip design that ran for days and cut them down to run in a few hours or less. He was priceless (I trust they paid him fairly well).

    Most of the people I worked with I called: "The mongoloid hoard". So if you are herding 2-legged sheep do what you need to do. But If you have a goose that lays golden eggs think twice before asking the dude to do anything other than asking him (her, other) if there is anything you can do to serve them better.

  127. Anonymous

    cute story but not good for morale for all of the 'other employees' who follow the rules.

  128. Anonymous

    Maybe there are too many rules

  129. Lisa Marie

    Some employees can be *under-producing rule followers* compared to other employee who work differently (hours, time of day, locale).

    Looking over onto other people's lawn and depressing one's self (messing with one's own morale over the greenery they see across the fence) is part of the problem here.

    What would the morale be if employees discovered that someone who worked in a completely "different realm/outside the rules" from them actually produced twice as much, and far superior quality work than they do?

    Everyone has their own lane for a reason.

  130. Anonymous

    Also unless someone is doing something that jeopardizes customers, patients, clients, wtv, it generally is a good rule to mind your own business and not compare your work to other people's work. You do you and do you to the best of your abilities. Worry about your own excellence. If people are busy watching other employees then they have too much time on their hands.

  131. Anonymous

    My team has certain responsibilities and deadlines and we are a team that communicates very well.

    I am not a clock watcher, nor do I micro-manage. It's counter productive in my line of work.

    I could care less if the computer was set to sleep. As long as our work is delivered on time and in excellent condition then I just care less how, when or where the work gets done.

  132. Anonymous

    If the computer is on sleep mode then it means you're not using it and if you're not using it then you're not working. If your job is such that your work relies on you being online and you're not its not about being a clock watcher but expecting productivity from those who are inclined to slack off.

  133. sfparrish

    I agree.

  134. Samantha

    So I don't really know the whole situation. But If her not working when she's supposed to was actually affecting her work than it's an issue. But if she was still getting her work done to a satisfactory standard, it shouldn't matter. I can get all my work done in 4 hours, why should I take a full 8 to do it...

    Again there totally could be more going on , and you took the right steps to try to fix the situation.

  135. Stacey Mc Clure Austin

    These comments. Remote workers want the luxuries of "feeling" like they own a business with no accountability.

    Regardless of whether she got her work done she was respecting policy.

  136. 60isthenew40

    Let's not throw all remote workers under the bus. I've worked remotely for over six years and I can tell you for a fact that I work harder at home than I did in the office. The reduction of stress also makes me a better employee.

    It's not about where you work, it's about your level of maturity and commitment to your responsibilities.

  137. Anonymous

    Not true. I’ve been working remotely for years. I have never wanted to feel like I own a business without the accountability. I have always worked hard and have always been aware of my responsibility to my employer. Shame on anyone who lumps all remote employees into those who just want to take advantage of the situation. You don’t know what you’re talking about. If you prefer to work in the office, we’ll then bully for you- go to the office then and leave the rest of us alone.

  138. Anonymous

    i'd love to know what data are leading you to this conclusion that remote workers want to feel like they own their own business.

  139. sfparrish

    I agree.

  140. Anonymous

    And, this is why there is a work shortage.

  141. Anonymous

    This is not why there is a work shortage. Some departments require personnel to be on clock at a certain time or it throws everyone else's workload off. There are way too many lazy, slackers who feel entitled and that is why we have a work shortage.

  142. Anonymous

    I’m not so much a stickler for watching every hr that the employee is logged on. But if they are achieving at least the minimum objectives, that would be a cause. If I had that situation I would have the ee work physically in the office to see if that made a difference

  143. Communication Coach

    A good manager will have employees work at their most productive times of day - or night - as long as they deliver quality work in a timely manner. The employee does agree to follow the agreement they make with employer - and respect the boundaries that a manager is charged with enforcing. Companies that are inflexible in making everyone do everything at the same time, in the same way in a rigid way are not using the resources of their employees to their best. In the posted case, it does seem the employer gave the employee every chance to resolve the working hours issues. Who knows if this employee would work better from noon well in to the evening? That may have suited her productivilty better. If that option was presented is not noted. In any case, the employee, it seems, agreed to the requirments of the Manager and employer, and did not respect the agreement and keep her word., otherwise known as breach of contract. In that case, termination should be expected

  144. Anonymous

    I agree! When the pandemic hit we all were shoved into work from home and it was difficult to adjust because there were no accommodations for certain work life balance aspects like childcare etc. My supervisor communicated with the team and did not expect for us to be glued to our computer however we ensured we met our goals and delivered our work. Only one person abused the system and actually did not work for months…. That person could not adjust……It was difficult to adjust and some people felt more comfortable beginning their work day at 5 am.

    And some worked evenings and weekends because they could not adjust at first. We kept our computers on, cell phones on, and answered every call that came through…. But we also from time to time knew there was idle time because of the transition, we were mentally and physicallY fatigued. People forgot we were all shoved into WFH status and people are still recovering. So honestly, I appreciate the liberties my supervisor gave us.

  145. Anonymous

    Good point but some jobs such as call centers require the employee to be online at set hours. Not all jobs are task based.

  146. Anonymous

    Yes, my manager "works" remotely every Friday, but the system shows her as last logged on the day prior 90% of the time.
    It's totally taking advantage...period.

  147. Anonymous

    And yet you still work under her. It's almost as if her schedule isn't a problem for the employer, just for you.

  148. Anonymous

    IMHO, the biggest thing to acknowledge is that there is no One True Way that works for all. Some people are not well-suited to WFH just as some are not well-suited to in-office work - be that type of work, personality, resources, etc.

    I am a salaried WFH employee, fairly senior in my field, and my work is actually better done at home rather than in an open office environment as much of it is confidential. I typically work more than 40 hours a week because my performance is judged on my results, not on hours in a chair. I do, however, sometimes work later in the day or work a lot part of the week to not work as much another part. I show up for my meetings and any on-call pages I get. I am a very high performer and my reviews are great.

    I stopped punching a timeclock when I stopped doing hourly work in my college years.

    Does it matter if I took an hour to watch squirrels at lunch today because it was lovely weather? And I'm currently working on reviews at 7:30 at night because my goal was to get a subset of them done before I stopped working today. Is that unfair?

    I HATE the whole "wisdom" that people goof off more WFH than in the office and that's why people need to go back into the office.

  149. Astrid

    Honestly I don’t see the issue - is she missing client meetings, mandatory events, deadlines?

    I worked for a company where remote work was in place prior the pandemic. Some days workers work later in the day, others much earlier, or they take big breaks in the middle.

    it could be a health or personal issue she doesn’t want to disclose. Or, she could be working just away from her desk. Sometimes I walk and talk into phone notes to brainstorm new ideas or play with posterboard/stickies to work on processes, and it could mean more than an hour away from my desk.

    as long as the results are there and she’s meeting obligations, the times she works shouldn’t be the main focus.

  150. Anonymous

    You do realize that there are jobs such as call center where the employee must be online during set hours.

  151. Madam anon663

    So, the employee was on a PIP, that says there was a performance issue. Now, they are not working a standard amount of hours, no matter the time, and seems to still not be productive. The OP is not saying its the WFH, she is saying this is a non performer on a plan, who seemingly does very little. I agree with her letting the person go.

  152. Anonymous

    Actually the OP didn’t state anything at all about performance.
    It was purely related to the employees computer not showing as active.

  153. Madam anon663

    A PIP where I work means a Performance Improvement Plan, those are not usually issued because someone is absent, its what it says it is. And the OP did state about a PIP.

  154. Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.

    If the OP's company takes punctuality and attendance into consideration of an employee's overall performance, then a PIP would be appropriately issued for someone's failure to meet those standards.

  155. Anonymous

    Not true it was also related to performance

  156. Anonymous

    This is absolutely not true it was a combination of performance, attendance and character issues like fudging her timecard

  157. Anonymous

    I have realized more than once that I had neglected to change my status to busy before jumping into meetings, or return status to available after taking a break but had definitely been working.

    There was a week when I had to use my personal computer because my charger stopped working and I had to order a new one after not finding one in a store. I guess I should consider myself lucky.

  158. Anonymous

    I will often put my status as away when I am working on things that require a ton of focus. Due to my overall output nobody has ever questioned it.

  159. Anonymous

    I think you hit on a very important key to all of the time discussion - "OUTPUT"! If the work is done, quality 'output' is received by company, when it was accomplished seems quite irrevelant to the process and silly to take up so much <time> rehashing it. Let the employee produce and give output at their most productive times! Some may be able to do this in 20 hours in quiet while others may take 30 hours. It's the OUTPUT that counts!

  160. Anonymous

    You do realize that not all jobs are "output" which can be done at the employee's leisure. Some jobs like call centers require the employee to be online at set hours.

  161. Anonymous

    There's a difference between placing your status as away and being completely logged off.

  162. Anonymous

    Employees are not children. My very ancient CEO said that if people are not in the office in the prescribed in office days “there will be consequences”. Really?! I’d like to know those consequences so that I can make an informed decision here, including whether I should give you my labor for such treatment. He also referred to his employees as monkeys in a monkey house. It’s no longer acceptable to treat people this way just because you are a manager at work. Managers need to realize that employees are adults, that yes!, do have obligations besides working for you. I would rather work for a company that appreciates and accepts work life balance.

  163. Lisa Marie

    There are always "3 sides to a story" and this side isn't even complete, then the OP ends with asking a nonsensical question.

    This reads like the OP just wants validation and support for the adverse action taken.

    SImply put... *not all pertinent details* is provided in this story in order for a *truly effective and 100% applicable* advice to be given... and OF NOTE >>> the OP DID NOT ASK FOR ADVICE, or even for help in reviewing or justifying the decision to terminate!

    True, there are many (some concurring and others disagreeing) opinions provided, BUT are they truly applicable, since the only question the OP asked is like a "kindergarten recess" challenge?

    Basic facts that are missing:

    - Was the entire PIP solely based on punctuality?

    - was the PIP set up as a path to "manage out" the employee?

    - is the OP truly a good manager/leader?

    - was the OP genuine in the PIP process?

    - was the work environment (and the leader/manager) one that encourages positivity and professional growth?

    So, to indulge the OP and answer *the only and clearly "support seeking question* asked... {Have any of you experienced remote associates MIA when they were supposed to be at work.}

    YES! Yes of course the many managers snd leaders here have experienced remote (and definitely on-site!) employees being MIA!!

    How and why soooo many comments have delved into giving advice without having required pertinent information, is bordering on ludicrousity.

    Perhaps the employee view failing the PIP as a way to "escape" the company through termination rather than resignation. If that was the case, *SCORE for the employee!!*

  164. Anonymous

    There was nothing nonsensical about the OP question, but a whole lot of nastiness in your response.

  165. Anonymous

    There are so many different factors that aren’t mentioned in the OP.
    What type of industry is this? If it’s a WFH call center or something like that, okay I see the point. That being said that’s one of the few exceptions. If an employee is meeting their obligations, why does it matter how long they sit in a chair. I certainly hope that there is much more to the story and that HR was heavily involved.

  166. Anonymous

    Again my clarifying post said her position was such that she needed to be online during set hours to intake grievances. When she's not online others had to pick up her workload.

  167. Madhav Kopalle

    We're you both in same time zone..have you accommodated why joins at 12. Did you ask. Or just like pencil pusher stuck to by the book attitude. Did you ask why did she log jn at 12 . May be that's 9 am for her in her country. She working from.may be taking care of family. Did you consider it.

    Was she completing her tasks for the day. If yes. Then you are wrong. If no, did you quantify her wrong

  168. Anonymous

    She was in the same country, same state so yes same time zone. And no she was far behind in her work and others had to pick up her work load. If you read my clarifying post you would have learned that this wasmt a task based job but one where she needed to be online to intake grievances at a set time. You're also wrong in thinking that if an employee's personal affairs prevents him/her from completing their work than somehow management is wrong. This however was not the case.

  169. Dr. Linnie Carter

    I have a mostly high-performing team. I emphasize work-life balance. They have to seek permission to work more than their approved number of hours, because I want them to have balanced lives. Also, my team does not have set work schedules. They can work whenever they like - as long as they work at least 37.5 hours per week. If they work less than 37.5 hours per week, they simply submit a leave form for the difference. They love the flexibility, and I love providing these types of benefits. In addition, I do not believe in babysitting adults. We have had a few people who did not appreciate the flexibility we provided, and they defrauded the employer by getting paid for hours they did not work. And yes, their employment was terminated. Overall, my team is fantastic. The few bad apples do not spoil the bunch, because they are no longer employed with us. And yes, most of my team works 100% remotely, and they will indefinitely.

  170. Lulu Cavens

    I like your way of thinking! Where do I apply???

  171. Anonymous

    This sounds awesome. Obviously all types of jobs can't work like this, but I'm going to start looking for task based employment. The flexibility you are offering seems amazing!

  172. Dr. Linnie S. Carter

    Thank you!

  173. Anonymous

    You are not in the wrong here.

    After reading your post and your follow up posts along with all the comments it sounds like this employee needed to work a set schedule as grievances come in during that specific time period and need to be handled. She was consistently not online during the full mandated business hours and not getting work done and other employees had to pick up the slack for her. She deserved to be fired. Besides being logged off 19 hours for a job isn't being late, that's called not showing up. I think if you mentioned all of this in your original post you may have gotten a different outcome. It does really depend on the job though. My sister is an accountant and she WFH and can work whatever hours she chooses as she has deadlines to hit but they are weeks out so as long as the work gets done in time she is okay. Not every wfh position is like that though. Some positions support businesses that have customers or field staff on site during certain business hours who can't wait days or even hours for a wfh office person to log on whenever and respond. Same with the whole having your children at home with you while you wfh vs putting them in daycare debate post that was on here a couple weeks ago. It really depends on the position that you have. Not all wfh office jobs are created equal. Some roles require really strict office hours and a quiet space to work with no distractions as you are on the phone with clients, customers, colleagues all day and other positions don't have those requirements.

  174. Anonymous

    Well said

  175. Anonymous

    Very well said.

  176. Anonymous

    We had that issues with high-level employees going missing prior to Covid because we could be remote.

    some where caught at the beach, some at the theater and people like myself are afraid to leave the house because they thought someone would think they weren’t available.
    please don’t let this mistrust apply to all because some abused it.
    It shouldn’t trickle down onto those who take it very seriously, working from home Typically from all paul’s done give people flexibility but they wind up working more hours and they would if they were in the office and commuting

  177. Anonymous

    In my previous job there was an employee who didn't sign on until 9 or 9:30 (worked at home), logged off for 2-4 hour breaks and sometimes longer. They'd come back on and work until 7-8:30pm. Due to the nature of our work, we should work regular hours (7-5) because nobody works that late. The employee is MIA a lot and, messy with their time card documentation. Always had an excuse for everything. Although it was addressed, they haven't done anything and the employee is still there.

  178. Anonymous

    Do you set your status to 'busy' when you're going through this employee's time card activity, or do you do it on your lunch break?

  179. Anonymous

    Huh? Is this supposed to be sarcastic or are you asking a question? Not being online and being unresponsive for hours. Then their people come to me or another colleague to get help. As the lead, yes I checked time cards including this one. When time cards aren't completed prior to the deadline, we get dinged.

  180. Lulu Cavens

    She's probably burned out and needed to move on anyway. Sounds like me when I've mastered every department....I end up leaving.

  181. Anonymous

    I worked for a major pharmaceutical company where the manager would threaten with disciplinary action if you started your shift over 15 minutes late.

    The senior manager mentioned that I was the employee with the highest performance record in the team. Well, all that changed when this manager took over. From being the best, I went all the way to being the most problematic.

    Once I had to go to the emergency at the local hospital in the middle of the night, and I was actually admitted for immediate surgery. I was sedated at the hospital for 3 days, and the manager was in the process of firing me. I wish he had, so I could sue the company for having such a jerk as a manager. The senior manager made the effort to communicate with me, and one of my children told him I was at the hospital.

    If I had told this manager I had to go to the hospital, he would've been worried more about who was going to cover my shift. After I came back, he never showed the slightest concern about my health.

    I've had my share of bad managers, but this one takes the prize for his utter lack of empathy.

    I think the first step in this type of situations is to ask the employee what happened, and go from there.

  182. Anonymous

    I work at a place that has a nosy receptionist - tattle tale. If you are ONE minute late, she will write you up. One.

    Reason? Work is important and we must be responsible adults. She's NEVER late.

    I understand attendance, etc. But I'm sorry, if you are one minute past coming in and work your butt off all day and have results, who cares??!! Some are timely and don't do crap all day!

    I can see what you mean about wishing you were fired. I'd feel the same. I was let go years ago from a job while I was dealing with breast cancer. I had radiation treatments on my lunch so I'd arrive early each day to make up for the longer lunch time

    I was fired because "cancer was unprofessional in the workplace".

    A woman fired me. And she had cancer and smoked as well.

    Best thing that happened to me there!!!!!!!!!!!!

  183. Anonymous

    Hmmm, technically, it is YOUR responsibility to inform your supervisor/manager of any absence, whether yourself or your emergency contact. And I think there is a difference between "at" and "in" the hospital. The employee should bear the responsibility, not the manager having to chase them down to find out what happened.

  184. Anonymous

    NO THEY DIDN'T!!!

  185. Anonymous

    I wish you could have been my old boss’ supervisor…this person easily stole 200 hours @ a six figure salary, in a five month window. Taking advantage of his supervisors absence due to maternity leave… It was noticed by the whole office… which affected morale.

  186. Anonymous

    Being an advocate of working remotely and a manager of a small group, if your work is done, I don't care when you log in.
    The work needs to be done. Meetings need to be attended via zoom or phone. If you hit a bump in the road, this needs to be communicated.

  187. Anonymous

    That to me is a problem because it reinforces to staff that they can do what they want. If you are to work certain hours, you should be logged in and available. Additionally, remote work adds a burden on the manager of ensuring that staff are doing their jobs and are available for discussions, questions, feedback, additional or emergency assignments etc, without the manager having to chase them down. An agreement to work constitutes that you do what was agreed upon, in this case be working at 9am.

  188. Anonymous

    A managers job is to manage.
    If there is too much of a load on the manager to do so, HR needs to offer supervision training to equip managers with the skills needed to complete those duties and/or hire an assistant manager to help. You shouldn't have to chase remote people down. Simply message them on whatever program you use (teams, Slack, etc.) If this is a problem, then perhaps that is an infrastructure issue and the company needs to evaluate any deficiencies.

  189. Anonymous

    I like this response. My productivity should be more important.

  190. Anonymous

    Could be worse. You could be like me online 12-16 hours every day and have no output because you're terrible at your job. I'd say if they're doing their work let it be.

  191. Anonymous

    Is there any help your company can offer you? Training etc. You're probably not terrible. Maybe overwhelmed or need additional training? Or going through something personally? Is there anything in particular making the work difficult?

  192. Terresa Roden

    The last 2-3 years of my employment, I worked remotely for a call center. The hours were assigned based on client need for coverage; therefore I worked an afternoon/evening shift. We had to clock in at our assigned schedule. If we were ill were required to call out to a number which could take messages if it were after "normal" business hours.

  193. Anonymous

    Lots of comments about getting their work done. I work with a lot of people who work from home. Getting messages from them at 6 am or 9 pm causes me stress. I don't respond at the time but it does not seem effective as they need my response and if they sent the messages during normal, company work hours I would respond.

  194. Anonymous

    Honestly, getting stressed about emails outside of hours is an issue of your own making that you need to deal with, not an issue with remote working. If you make your working hours clear to others, there’s no problem. Let people email you whenever and control yourself from opening up the emails and stressing yourself out until your normal work hours start again.

  195. Anonymous

    Speaking as a manager, the most difficult thing I ever had to do is terminate an employee. Unfortunately some individuals either as a result of poor work ethic, poor job compatibility, unfortunate life circumstances, or more often, some combination of the three end up in a PIP that progresses to termination.

    You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

  196. Anonymous

    I think you're right, compatibility being a big one because the person may interpret expectations differently, have no cultural reference point for what is being asked for, etc.
    Some organizations call this a bad fit. Kind of begs the question, can orgs accommodate people who are different? We live in a society that literally requires employment for people to live. Without social supports like a universal basic income, corporate social responsibility includes treating employees well and making work accessible. This doesn't mean people can do crappy work or break rules, but it does mean that structures and practices should be flexible enough to support human needs and facilitate success/excellence. We should have supervisors of work and supervisors of people. Some people are great at supervising a task, but lack the skills to supervise a person.

  197. Anonymous

    Well said.

  198. Anonymous

    You skipped right over all the warnings and accommodations that happened before the termination: "She had been placed on a program improvement, counseled on numerous occasions and was given the hybrid schedule she said she needed to be successful.
    Despite these accomodations [. . .]"

    This is a professional environment intended for solidarity and advice. Take the venom and go throw it at Twitter.

  199. Anonymous

    "Have any of you experienced remote associates MIA when they were supposed to be at work."

    The team I just left was about 50% remote and 50% based in various office locations. Overall, I had no problem with the remote employees' work ethic and I even recommended a few of them for QA positions. There were a few people who could not wake up on time to save their lives, that was about it - and moving them to later shifts solved the problem (they weren't happy about it, but they couldn't deny that they really gave me no choice in the matter).

    That was, however, just in my department. There are other departments in that company with some serious productivity issues from their remote employees, partially due to a lack of effective metrics to measure individuals by, and partially due to a lack of accountability amongst the management. It's being worked on.

  200. Anonymous

    We need to terminate someone for absenteeism, and the department manager is reluctant to do so for whatever reason.
    She is constantly late and misses a LOT of work (she hasn't worked a full 40-hour week ever, and she's been with us for almost a year). But because most of the absences are due to serious health problems, she's getting a pass. Her work falls on everyone else. She was hired to be my assistant but I don't have the authority to fire her or even put her on notice about the problem. (We don't have an HR department, either.)

    I don't think being a remote worker has anything to do with it, though. She'd probably miss MORE work if she had to come in physically.

  201. Cynthia Armistead Newman

    FWIW, I don't think your employee's problem is due to being remote. She would be a problem in any environment if she didn't have a good work ethic.

    I have worked remotely off and on since 1990. I work far more hours now than I did when I had to go into the office three days a week. I tend to check my work email and Slack and take care of urgent matters before and after work hours and on weekends. I help to supervise a 24-7-365 call center, and there's always some sort of issue that needs resolution.

  202. Anonymous

    Absolutely. One in particular.

  203. Anonymous

    I cant understand why you posted this.

    Do you want everyone in this world to do same?

    Whatever you have posted is your though and understanding. Her prospect is missing and people here started appreciating you without even knowing anything about other party.

    I dont know in which kind or world we are living in

    She may be suffering from depression, family issue, maternal issue or some trauma. Who knows?

    Everyone goes through bad phase and sometimes when no one cares people even comitt suicide.

    There is always a reason when someone is not giving his/her 100% . If I would have been in your position I would have talked to her and would have given a week leave to take a break from work.

    If you will support someone s/he will definitely return it back. I live by this principle and see everyone as a human first and then as an employee.

  204. Jamie B.

    Hi, I definitely see your perspective but it seems like she tried as the OP stated "She had been placed on a program improvement, counseled on numerous occasions and was given the hybrid schedule she said she needed to be successful" At what point is it fair to the other team members who are pulling their load and are logged in appropriately? I guess the information we are missing is was the team member productive, were assignments completed on time, etc. I still think this manager was not in the wrong by terminating this employee. She tried to see her as a "human first then a employee" by given her the requested accommodations but you do need to also hold people accountable to remain credible as a leader. I can see both sides....

  205. Anonymous

    Logged in appropriately sounds like a call center. If its not a job where she had to be on all the time why do you care when she starts? Maybe she's a night owl and does her best work in the evenings.

  206. Anonymous

    Is this person meeting their goals? Unless this person is an hourly employee, who cares when they actually work unless you are being their hall monitor. Goals should be the standard, not hours worked.

  207. Motta

    Was she actually doing the work and getting it done, with good quality? Or is the job an hourly shift based job? More details would have been nice...

  208. Anonymous

    As another commenter said, it depends somewhat on the type of work.
    Is her work actually being on and being available such as a customer service agent role or is it project based? If it is project based, is her work on time and of good quality? I have a work computer I am rarely on because it is a cheap laptop and prefer to do my work in my MacBookPro. My work is typically able to be completed through Office programs which I have on my Mac. I also have programs I have purchased on my Mac that I use. However, I am always available through Teams for questions or meetings. Just another perspective.

  209. Anonymous

    If she is not doing her job what else can you do?

  210. Anonymous

    How long can some people work from home and produce nothing?

  211. Anonymous

    These types of issues would not exist if they had to report to an office.

  212. Anonymous

    Not true. Lackadaisical employees are good at shuffling papers and pretending to work.

  213. Anonymous

    Correct, So if they are at work they can be seen doing next to nothing, hence, fire them.

  214. Anonymous

    Her loyalty should be to her full time job that pays the bills.

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