Hi there, my question to the community is regarding how many hours a week one should reasonably be expected to work when trying for a promotion?

Anonymous

October 6,2022 at 11:28AM UTC

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Hi there, my question to the community is regarding how many hours a week one should reasonably be expected to work when trying for a promotion? I am a salaried specialist and my job description says 8-5 with some hours outside of that for events as needed. I’ve been working ~50 hours a week, doing extra volunteering at work as part of an ERG board, people have said I’m a rising talent, I do quality work, my customers are loyal to me and happy with my work, and I help others when I can. I’ve been in my role for more than 3 years.

My boss recently laughed at me when I reminded her of the conversation we had back in January of my being promoted to a senior specialist title. She said in January this would be possible this year due to a change in the type of things we support since the pandemic. However, in the recent conversation- my boss said “Girl, we are in support roles and you are not going to get bumped into a promotion unless you are working 70 + hour weeks and answering emails at 10 pm - I don’t think you want to do that.” I said I would be willing to do that after being promoted, and she said that’s not how things work- you have to prove that first. She also shared that when she was equivalent to my current band and role, that she worked more like 80-90 hour weeks. This company talks all about work-life balance and being new to the business world, am so confused. I am now feeling discouraged and hopeless and stressed about my career future.

We are a small team support executives events for a large manufacturing focused research and development facilities. I genuinely enjoy my job and my customers, but my boss is clearly not willing to fight for her employees and I have no hope of being promoted after holding out hope all year. Is work life balance not allowed for women in manufacturing? Is this normal advice from a manager to employee? I really wanted a promotion and love the work I do, but my boss’s inconsistency with words and actions has led me to feel I have to move on, which saddens me. What advice can you all share? Is this a normal expectation or should I look elsewhere for a remote role?

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AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 11:54AM UTC
Promotions at some companies are tricky. Its not at all the actual number of hours you clock. It's generally the level of your engagement and the perception of availability.
Clearly there is no way your boss is going to advocate for your promotion. No way judging from her comments and attitude.
So you must stealthily recruite other managers and leaders to notice you and champion your growth. Thar means instead of volunteering for just any "help" choose project to put you closer to those managers that might sign your praises. So in other words work smarter and no necessarily harder. Answer the odd email from other managers later in the evening. You don't necessarily need to log on more hours than the time it takes to do that.
You have to get strategic with your plan. Involving other leaders will force your manager into submission and she will end up acting like your promotion was all her idea so she looks like a leader instead of a road block.
If this doesn't work, the quick way to a promotion is to interview and get other offers from outside your company. Use them as stepping stones or leverage with your current company.
Your manager is stingy and selfish. Because she is not succeeding she doesn't want anyone else to. She is not your fan. Don't count on her unless she's pushed.
Lara Ivey KauchakOctober 6,2022 at 12:44PM UTC
First, this isn't normal. Its ok to have to work exceptional hours for a few weeks or a special project, but 80-90 hours shouldn't be a job requirement or a requirement for a promotion. 50 could be ok... Personally I've found this to be "normal" for salaried roles in the industries you are in.
Unfortunately, the answering emails at 10pm might be expected (especially in mfg). But it should be emergency type things, not daily email. It is sometimes expected that you check in before bed and make sure things are ok for the am and the execs have everything they need to start the morning - especially if the site runs 24/7.
But I agree that your boss isn't going to help you get promoted. She's falling back on very old-school ideas of how promotions work - e.g do the job and then maybe we'll promote you. Use your work on ERG and other areas to try to move laterally if there are options. Re-evaluate if the hours are really the issue or if there are more effective ways to get the work done. As a last resort, talk to the exec you support and let them know that you feel that you are not in a position that has a path for promotion and that after 3 years and with your other assignments, you were expecting this.
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 1:16PM UTC
Always find it interesting when companies preach work-life balance but have none.
How do we make this better? I think it starts at the top and the culture would have to change. That is tough in manufacturing - I left a position in manufacturing for the "we have great work-life balance here" untruth. I was there 15 years and made a change. It was hard, but now I am much happier and have family time!
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 1:22PM UTC
My last company had a rubric of the role and actions/ results for each level.
The company was very mature in their talent review processes.
The person must master those attributes in their current role not only consistently, but at role model level to be promoted.
The rubric includes both technical skills and soft skills. Sometimes there are soft skills that are needed like the way someone communicates really rubs people the wrong way and that can be a reason why they aren’t ready for promo yet and are being coached.
In this model you can see that it has nothing to do with hours worked. It’s about results/impact. I would encourage you to find out what the responsibilities are for the role you want and take inventory of the work you have done that demonstrates that you are moving in that direction. Seek a mentor who can help you if your boss has been given that opportunity and isn’t guiding you.
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 1:29PM UTC
Managers excel in different ways.
Sometimes the style of leadership is applied to the situation after careful consideration and sometimes it’s by default.
-Some managers are strong in “keeping the train on the tracks” which is managing the team to meet the performance metrics.
-Some managers are strong at seeing peoples potential and mentoring them.
Given your bosses comments, it sounds like your manager is very strong in keeping the train on the tracks. There are some great articles about leadership styles. I would encourage you to check those out. Then ask yourself- what kind of a boss is she and how can I work WITH her? There’s a lot of great advice below about finding an advocate in a stealth manner.
Google “10 leadership styles”
fellow app has a good list. It won’t let me paste the link.
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 1:39PM UTC
do you really WANT to work 80 hours/week? Even 50 hours (and time after work) is too much in my book. Unless you want your job to be your LIFE. (PS: don't get sucked into this vortex. That lifestyle sucks. who wants the company to own them? Your manager sounds pathetic, negative, and a slave driver who offers you no encouragement).
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 1:42PM UTC
Here's my advice: stop the conversation with your boss. Your boss is enjoying keeping you "clamped down" and controlled, working like a dog , and he/she is holding the proverbial bone just out of reach for you. Instead, keep doing your excellent work, networking, volunteering, etc....build that resume' and then, run like the wind when another (better) employment opportunity comes along. Girl, some other employer would LOVE to have you and your drive. You're with the wrong tribe right now.
AnonymousOctober 6,2022 at 2:18PM UTC
None of this speaks to a supportive organization that is interested in your development. This is a recipe for burnout where you never reach the "carrot". Your boss seems to be part of (or maybe the cause of) the problem, perhaps due to company culture, or perhaps that's just who she is. Lots of people, men & women, in all industries, get promoted without subjecting themselves to what you describe here. I speak from experience, both as a person who has been promoted and who has promoted others. To answer your question, no, this is not normal advice from a boss. If you want to be promoted/grow your career, you may have to consider looking elsewhere, either internally or with another organization.
cayla hartnettOctober 6,2022 at 4:37PM UTC
Huge red flag. Just because she worked that many hours doesn't mean you should be expected or willing to. We need to flip the script.
As women we need to set the tone for how we want to be treated, including by other women. We need to set boundaries for ourselves because no one else is going to do it. If we don't do something to change the expectations that are placed on us, nothing will change.
Are there any systems or processes that you have implemented that you can point to and say, because this saved me X number of hours or that you generated new clients that you wouldn't have otherwise gotten. I don't know exactly what it might be, but try to show your added value outside of simply the number of hours you actually work. I might also just ask her point blank, "Would you want your daughter/niece to have to put in those kind of hours just to get a promotion? What purpose does that serve for future generations." Maybe add something like, "I can imagine that it must have been difficult to be expected to work those kinds of hours. Maybe you felt, as a woman, it was the only way to move up the ladder. Wouldn't it be great if that were no longer the case?"
Also, could you go around your boss and speak to HR or someone else to get their opinion about the promotion?
KatOctober 6,2022 at 8:11PM UTC
A good boss supports you and wants to help you succeed and grow. Your boss isn't doing that. Laughing at you for wanting to discuss a promotion? Telling you to work 80+ hours a week in the hopes of getting a promotion? This is not typical behavior and very unprofessional. You're good at your job and she wants to keep you in place. If you like the company, look for a promotion or lateral transfer to a different area. If you like what you do but don't feel the culture at your current job is supportive, look into opportunities elsewhere. You don't have to be a slave to your job (or your horrible boss) to get promoted. See what else is out there. Your boss has made it clear she will not help you or support you in your efforts to move into another role. It's time to move on from this negative toxic person to chart your own future - in this company or another one.
AnonymousOctober 7,2022 at 12:20PM UTC
A boss who makes promises, renegs on that promise, laughs at you, and then suggests those hours? Time to go. No, that's not normal. That's a company that doesn't properly staff so they can drop the savings to the bottom line and doesn't care about your health or wellbeing.
Christi LopezOctober 7,2022 at 12:59PM UTC
It sounds like your boss is unwilling to put effort into assisting you. No, you should not be having to put in 70+ hours a week just for a promotion. What about those above your boss? Are you in a position where you can take on tasks that will bring you to the attention of those higher up the chain? Yes, it's better if you can be supported by your boss, but others are clearly starting to take notice. Start building rapport with those outside your team. There may be other opportunities available. This could just be a "your boss" thing and not a systemic issue.