What would you do?

What would you do?

I left a job in December 2021 that I was at for 7 years. Reason why I left? Founder of the company made a comment abut not being able to grow my family until I grow his company. There are a lot of other reasons, but I am not here to talk about them. I was hired at a company that wanted to give me the ability to develop a new vertical within the organization (I work in performance marketing). One of the key parts of building this out was building our network (which I expressed I had NO experience building from the ground up as well as explained what I did at my previous employer so we all have the same expectation). I was also asked to create a Revenue Plan of Action detailing how much revenue I'd be responsible for. This is where I messed up. I had no idea what i was doing creating that and at the time it seemed easy enough to follow through with. However, when I was brought on, the tools needed to be successful were half there and half not. Having half the tools missing affects my performance and ultimately, I started falling behind on my goals. My first two months at the new job were great. The third month was eye-opening as I witnessed my Boss constantly bashing an employee on my team because she would "speak up" in meetings and call out contradictions. The tension between him and her (and myself) started to grow. He has said I am the most qualified person for the job, but also called me an amateur and asked "what did you even do at (last place of employment)?" as if he didn't know when we discussed it in the interview process as well as the 5+ years of professional history doing business together. The girl on my team and I would dread our meetings with the boss as it was more lecturing and berating than constructive and task oriented. The last call we had was over a week and a half ago and she could not take it anymore (even though I was at the forefront of it all). She called me crying and basically said she was quitting. I wasn't upset. I totally understood. I would have quit on the spot as well, but I was not equipped to just make that jump.

I don't see myself at this company for long as I am now realizing that my mental health is being jeopardized. I have lost 15+ pounds because I literally cannot eat. This man's words loom over my like a dark cloud. Amateur is the one that makes a constant appearance. However, while I am there... any advice on how to make this work relationship with my boss tolerable until I make the move?

FYI - since my teammates departure, he's been really nice to me. This could have something to do with a record breaking week, but I know this won't last because not only am I short handed on tools to be successful, but down to just myself execute when this was designed to always have a second team member. I refuse to give referrals to people I know bc they will see through him and ultimately leave themselves.

TL;DR - Left a job of 7 years due to toxic masculinity, ended up at another job with even more toxic masculinity. Affecting my mental health. Want to leave, can't yet. Advice on how to maintain sanity while trying to find something else.

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42 Comments

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  1. Anonymous

    Have you had a frank conversation with him about this?

  2. Anonymous

    I opened up to him about how I do not receive "lectures" well as its a trauma response from when I was younger (my dad would lecture me for an hour sometimes more when he got home from a long night of drinking. it was never provoked, but it happened enough that i would just sit there numb). i expressed that I prefer constructive criticism. he proceeded to not listen and continued to lecture me. His lectures would cause our meetings to lapse past the allotted meeting time and he would get upset that I had to jump off to make it to another meeting.

    I've genuinely afraid how he's going to react because i just feel so beaten down.

  3. Lucy

    He’s not someone you can reason with. As someone else said treat it like an ATM.

    i strongly encourage you to write down how much you make in a 3 month period and what you’re gonna spend that money on (rent, groceries, new sneakers ). Then when the sht hits the fan again you can look back at your PURPOSE for staying.

    i say 3 months as an idea since that could be how long it takes to find something else.

    this is a phase of your life and it will pass.

  4. Vanda Lee

    Don't waste your breath trying to get him to understand what he's doing isn't working... just stand up to him with phrases like " I'm not going to allow you to speak to me like this", " when you can speak to me professionally, I'll be ready to listen" . Shut him down...what's the worst he can do right now? Fire you? It would put him in an even worse place.

  5. Kristie White

    I have been in business for a long time and I have experienced bullying in the workplace.
    I was not equipped to deal with it and it created a lot of trauma for me. So 20 years ago, I started daily positive meditation to help me deal with negativity, rebalance my own emotions, reaffirm my positivity and gratefulness, and protect myself from verbal abuse. I know it sounds a little "new age", but it WORKS! and it cost nothing but your time and attention. This is how I do it..
    I use index cards to write positive affirmations that I say during meditation. I write one per card and repeat them as my meditation and if I need to work through something, I use my voice to work through it out loud. Build as many cards as you need but I might start with 5-10. Focus on positivity such as "I am a competent professional and bullying from anyone does not change that."
    "I love myself and I will transition to a more positive environment when I find the right place."
    "I deserve respect and courtesy." "Words used to hurt me have no meaning, they are empty."

    Do this every morning before work. Take the cards with you and practice during the day. Do it before every meeting. Commit to doing it daily for at least 2 weeks but 4 would be better. These sayings will rewrite the negative thoughts in your head and that is what's important. You have tapes running in your head that give the abuser power and you need to replace them with positive protection. I promise you it works:)

  6. Anonymous

    this was actually really beautiful advice i cried. Thank you.

  7. Anonymous

    I was going to suggest meditation as well even though it might sound like a 'self-help' cliche. It will definitely help creating some emotional space with the situation. You might even get to a place where you see him as a Rick Moranis character and slightly ridiculous.

    You can get through this. He doesn't get to decide your worth.

  8. Kiley

    Such kind andconsiderate advice.

  9. Barb Hansen

    Look at the company as an ATM - it's just a place you go, do work and get money. That money is paying your bills, and giving you a runway while you look for another job.

  10. Anonymous

    Keep in mind that his opinion means nothing. If he gave you the tools needed to be sucessful and quit making you try to turn straw into gold with nothing to do it with then you could question your ability, but not when he expects you to pull success out of the ether.

    This is a very hard lesson for us women to learn. I just *celebrated* my 10 year anniversary at a company. No one said anything. I just had surgery. No one on my team did anything. Others, well there was at least a mention of their anniversary and when they were in hospital or had surgery, there were gift baskets, etc. Me? Nope.

    But make me work OT when you need someone. Put it in last year's review that I need to work more *voluntary* OT. Sure. Industry will push as much as they can get out of you. Just remember, if you died tommorow, they would replace you in a week. So try not to value their opinions so much. The *praise* when it comes is hollow and worth about as much as the paper it's written on.

  11. Anonymous

    Treat it like a 9-5 and protect your mental. He obviously has work to do on his leadership development. In the meantime, focus on the task at hand rather than the unproductive feedback he provides.

  12. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I think knowing this is going to be a short term stint and that this will not be your reality for any longer that it has to be should help - there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    The fact that your co-worker quit, should buy you some time - he probably can't afford to have you walk out the door also.

    I would put my head down, do what you can, be a duck and let the bad shit roll off your back and work that job search like mad.

    Also, I would do some soul searching and try to figure out if there were red flags you ignored or things you didn't drill down on enough when you were interviewing for this role.

    Good luck!

  13. Vanda Lee

    I know it's hard but at this point, since he's being nice right now, if he says anything out of line, STAND UP FOR YOURSELF! If you left today, he would be in a bind...use that as your personal power. Be professional in your speak but stand your ground on how he speaks to you and start looking hard for other opportunities. No one deserves to be treated like this. Good luck.

  14. Milissa Jacobs

    I don't think there is such a thing as toxic masculinity, any more than there is toxic femininity. Your boss is a jerk and they come in both sexes. Start making a plan for your escape, as if you were in a battered wife situation(which has a lot of similarities to yours) Dust up the resumé. Start putting out feelers. Keep your head down and do the best that you can until you are able to escape. And next time, please don't ignore red flags in the beginning.

  15. Anonymous

    You are 100% correct. Toxicity comes in all genders, hardly reserved for men.

  16. rgstaffing@bellsouth.net

    You need to make it a top priority to find another job. In this job market with many job openings and few candidates, that is in your favor. You will not change where you are so put your energy into getting out of there. Register with some top agencies in your city who specialize in what you do.

  17. DeborahORell

    If you believe the underlying reason he treats you and other women this way is because of gender discrimination, you may want to contact an employment lawyer. If you can prove discrimination, you may be able to negotiate a package to leave. Don't Quit. Call a qualified employment lawyer to discuss your options. Wouldn't that be sweet to leave on YOUR terms?!

  18. IntentionGirl519815

    put your energy into finding a new position. He has demonstrated repeatedly he is unwilling to change. You have seen how he treats you and others. Why can’t you leave yet? What piece of you believes you must tolerate this behavior? Girl, you deserve better.

  19. GirlBossanova934974

    First, I worked in B2B Ecommerce and B2B SAAS for over a decade and created a few new verticals. One vertical in particular, was a big winner for the company. I had over a decade of experience actually working in that vertical so I knew what was needed. That in mind, you signed for a Revenue Plan which you had no experience in creating nor did you have the experience in the actual vertical. As such, you should never have created that Revenue Plan without significant outside input. That one was on your manager and now it looks like he wants to have it both ways. He didn't want to pay for the experienced person to get the big numbers BUT he also wanted the big numbers. I would try to explain that to him. Please give him a list of things you need........Discuss the list and see where it goes. Give it 90 days. If he doesn't act on that list, you should work on finding a new job. Last, I would save the term "toxic masculinity" for another situation. This is about a manager who hired an inexperienced person, expected great things of this inexperienced person, and then got up upset when the numbers didn't pan out. Well you know something. This manager signed off on the Revenue Plan. If he thought the numbers were a big stretch and not achievable, the Revenue Plan should have been modified by HIM. We got lots of managers thinking this way these days. They could hire the experienced person to get the big numbers but they want to do things on the cheap..........Now they're finding out.

  20. Anonymous

    Document EVERYTHING ( you will need this for an employment lawyer). And when he yells, berates, throws temper tantrums -you need to put your hand up to stop the conversation and say something to the effect of “I will NOT tolerate the tone you’re using with me. If you’d like to have a rational conversation with me later when you’re calm then come find me. Otherwise, I will not sit here and tolerate you speaking to me in this tone” and then leave. Let him fire you you can at least claim unemployment. Don’t quit as you’ll get nothing.

  21. Focused721350

    Good Morning,

    I'm going t say this like my Dr. said yrs. ago! "NO JOB IS WORTH YOUR HEALTH"!!!!!!!!! I don't care what it is......

    That place is "TOXIC"!!!!!!! Remember! Anyone can be replaced! Find something that's going to be more inviting and HEALTHY!!!

    Good Luck and God Bless, Ms.T ;)

  22. Anonymous

    Absolutely! My former co worker's husband had 2 strokes dealing with a toxic boss and work environment.

  23. Anonymous

    Here’s what I’m currently doing - sticking my head down and getting my job done to the best of my abilities with the lack of resources and putting a lot of energy after work to find a new job. I’m also about to go on maternity leave which adds more fuel to their fire of treating me like dirt which I’ve honestly been taking notes of and tracking just in case.

    now that you’ve gone through this you, just like I will be doing, will be asking about what resources the new company has, with examples, and budget questions. For marketers these are all important questions that we assume we don’t need to ask because marketing typically has a hefty budget ?

  24. Anonymous

    Explore short term disability leave for mental health. Do some research to see if your situation qualifies.

    Asking a women not to start a family could be a harassment/violation. Do some research to see who you can report it from. Keep an excel and document his statements w/dates.

  25. Anonymous

    There are ways to leave without having a job in hand. A friend of mine hired a lawyer to write a severance letter. They had a good case for harassment. They got a bigger severance than is standard which bought them

    tine to find a new situation. This benefitted the company too as they had a replacement in mind. Not surprisingly, a friend of the boss.

  26. Anonymous

    been there/done that. and...more and more...we are ALL experiencing this. Corporate America is a real mess, leadership is grossly lacking everywhere and people are completely detached and depersonalized. We see this on the national news every night, and we see it at work and all over. So...just know that you're not alone in what you're witnessing. And, there are no guarantees it will be better elsewhere (hence, so many people have NOT returned to the work force or are electing to become self employed, somehow and someway). All of this to say: Chin up. it's not you. You sound like a real trooper. So here is my advice: Make a mental shift. Now. This is NOT your forever job. It is merely a "training ground" for what lies ahead. If you can accept that this job is not your forever home...and look at each crappy experience/comment or whatever as "life and professional experience", then you won't feel so bad and You'll be able to cope. I had a horrible job about 7-8 years ago, in which I had tremendous responsibility and zero corporate support. zero....and I recall, one day, sitting in the parking lot and putting my head on the car steering wheel. Crying and trying to brace myself for another day of hell. And then.....it hit me: "This is not my forever home. But I can choose to learn what I can from each day here, as it prepares me for a better unknown future"...and in that moment, I had a complete mental switch and felt much better. I did end up leaving that job...I've had some happiness and some disappoinments (big ones) since then.....but just knowing that this "really bad place right now" is not my forever job home....that got me thru. And, the experiences there did develop me further, so I accept that as well. Good luck and don't worry too much. You are a strong one. Don't let your work define you. Sooner or later, we all get kicked in the butt....develop who you are OUTSIDE of work and be solid in that.

  27. Kathryn

    There is nothing you can do to change him. But start looking for other positions NOW do not wait. He was nice because someone quit and you still had a great week. They will drag their heels hiring someone else and point at this week as why( You did such a great job you really don't need any help) You have skills get out there and use them.

  28. Crystal Howell

    This is some kind of abuse, I would seek employment attorney, EEOC, before making a move. Grin and bear until you know your rights. I would document everything from day, do you have grievance form at HR? You might get a settlement from the owner, good luck.

  29. Anonymous

    I wouldn’t… it’s exhausting work. Even worse, it wires your brain to be hyper focused on negativity and that mindset can stick with you.

    Better to use that energy finding a greener pasture.

  30. Jane

    Leave. Working for people like this is NEVER worth it.

  31. Anonymous

    she's said she can't leave yet and is asking advice for how to maintain her sanity until she can.

  32. Anonymous

    Your home needs to be your sanctuary. If you’re going to actively take abuse all day at work, you need to be extra kind to yourself outside that.

    there also seems like a good chance that his attitude has perked up due to the departure of the employee he had beef with before you even joined. Don’t waste breath saving her honor when he inevitably says bad things now that she’s gone. There nothing to be gained, but letting him believe all the friction was due to the now former employee could benefit you.

    you’re actively looking for an alternative right? Here’s the thing about hustling quickly to get out of a toxic environment; we get so excited about a lifeline that we don’t always thoroughly examine it close enough. “Out of the frying pan and into the fire” right? Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

    Before you accept another new role, do some analysis of your past 2 employer choices. What were the common threads? What early red flags did you fail to see that in hindsight are obvious indicators. What drew you to working for these toxic men?

  33. Terrie McWhorter

    Brene' Brown!!! Girl you need some confidence boosting!!!! I think she has a book called Daring to Lead. My thought is you must remember that you are NOT going to change him. See yourself as the leader that you are. He obviously isn't being a good leader, so you take on the role! Also, if a manager ever told me I was an amateur or my work was amateur, I would probably look at them and say "excuse me? Did you seriously just say that to me?" But I have been around the block a few times, I am confident of my abilities. YOU need to be confident. Yes you started from the ground up with this company but dang it, YOU are making things work. YOU are capable. Brush up on your resume and keep your chin up. Bring that leader out !!! YOU ARE AMAZING

  34. Anonymous

    Dare to Lead… it’s phenomenal & there’s even a podcast.

    +1 on Brene!

  35. ANNA SEN

    Why can’t you leave? Bills?

    If it’s not for financial reasons then you must quit now. Life is literally too short for this crap. You have a right not to be bullied and demeaned.

  36. Anonymous

    Agreed. It’s ok to start looking for another job even if you haven’t been at your current job very long. I’ve done that and have always been able to get other jobs after that. Some hiring managers might frown upon it but plenty of others don’t think anything of it. When asked why you’re leaving, you can just say the job didn’t turn out to be what was presented to you in the interview or something along those lines. You can say this without sounding like you’re badmouthing your current company or manager. You might even start to feel at least a little better once you start looking for another job because you’ll feel like you’re taking action and you won’t feel as helpless. Best of luck to you. Get yourself out of there!

  37. Karen Gongaware

    Every time he says "amateur" reply "and yet, you hired me." what do you care? he's an asshat. Hostile working environment. Go from there.

  38. Anonymous

    Yes!! I mean… in my head that’s a great response. In reality, even an asshat has people who think their referral matters… I’ve been bitten before, keep your head down & just get out. Don’t light bridges on fire, even if it’s a terrible bridge to a place you never want to go again.

  39. Hannah

    Hmmm, aw, so sorry for this uncomfortable situation you are going through.

    One the other hand, congratulations for being a strong person for not just quitting even though the signs are clear for you. I say well done. You haven't run away from the sight of danger and you're prepared to battle it until the time is right, well done my friend ?
    Since you're at the preparation stage, these are a few advise or suggestions I would like to share with you.
    PREPARATION STAGE

    1. Set a reasonable time, which must only be known by you to leave
    2. Work out strongly on your finances, such that when you opt out, you wouldn't be found wanting, when finding a new job delays.
    3. Quickly start searching for a new job.
    WHILST YOU HUNG IN THERE

    I must admit, it's so painful to work with a bully, and a pretender in a toxic environment. Bully's know how to play the blame game very well and they will use your weakness as a yardstick or a tool to work against you, thinking they are wisely hurting you. But be like the oyster, produce a nice necklace pearl from this situation so that, others won't see the hurt but the end product of the messy or uncomfortable situation you went through
    1. I've come to realize from your writing that your boss doesn't liked to be questioned, challenged or exposed about his incompetencies in public for that matter meetings, so avoid that. If you have any issues, please go to him in person
    2. Avoid any confrontation that will try to arise between you for the sake of your peace. Simply, Don't argue with him, or try to prove a point even if you are right, remember you're leaving soon
    3. Am happy you've mentioned that you don't have all the tools and this is a new thing you're learning. So learn to use the available tools and try your best in earnestness to make it work. If it doesn't, don't worry, remember you are an oyster. A child keeps walking no matter how many times he falls and how adult laughs or scold them. It's your development we are talking about here.
    4. Ignore any words that he says or uses to hurt you. If he intentionally uses anything to hurt you, just tell yourself rubbish. Rubbish any nonsense which is aimed at your hurt, this will reduce the stress and the pain. Ignore his rubbish for short
    4. Pray always and commit the day into God's hand, and you'd see wonders untill the appointed time is set
    5. leave quietly and peacefully.
    PS, you are an oyster and you're leaning how to develop your hurt, your patience, tolerance and self control. If you master these well, you'd come out well. Don't think too much about the nonsense, focus on these, tell yourself I AM AN OYSTER. I WISH YOU

  40. Hannah

    Hmmm, aw, so sorry for this uncomfortable situation you are going through.

    One the other hand, congratulations for being a strong person for not just quitting even though the signs are clear for you. I say well done. You haven't run away from the sight of danger and you're prepared to battle it until the time is right, well done my friend ?
    Since you're at the preparation stage, these are a few advise or suggestions I would like to share with you.
    PREPARATION STAGE
    1. set a reasonable time, which must only be known by you to leave
    2. Work out strongly on your finances, such that when you opt out, you wouldn't be found wanting, when finding a new job delays.
    3. Quickly start searching for a new job.
    WHILST YOU HUNG IN THERE
    I must admit, it's so painful to work with a bully, and a pretender in a toxic environment. Bully's know how to play the blame game very well and they will use your weakness as a yardstick or a tool to work against you, thinking they are wisely hurting you. But be like the oyster, produce a nice pearl from that situation so that, others won't see the hurt but the end product of the messy or uncomfortable situation you went through
    1. I've come to realize from your writing that your boss doesn't liked to be questioned, challenged or exposed about his incompetencies in public for that matter meetings, so avoid that. If you have any issues, please go to him in person
    2. Avoid any confrontation that will try to arise between you for the sake of your peace. simply, Don't argue with him, or try to prove a point even if you are right, remember you're leaving soon
    3. Am happy you've mentioned that you don't have all the tools and this is a new thing you're learning. So learn to use the available tools and try your best in earnestness to make it work. If it doesn't, don't worry, remember you are an oyster. A child keeps walking no matter how many times he falls and how adult laughs or scold them. It's your development we are talking about here.
    4. Ignore any words that he says or uses to hurt you. If he intentionally uses anything to hurt you, just tell yourself rubbish ??, rubbish any nonsense which is aimed at your hurt, this will reduce the stress and the pain. Ignore his rubbish for short
    4. Pray always and commit the day into God's hand, and you'd see wonders untill the appointed time is set
    5. leave quietly and peacefully.
    PS, you are an oyster and you're leaning how to develop your hurt, your patience, tolerance and self control. If you master these well, you'd come out well. Don't think too much about the nonsense, focus on these, tell yourself I AM AN OYSTER. I WISH YOU WELL

  41. K

    Anonymous, I have just come out the other side of a 2 year hell that sounds very similar to yours. Open this, read it and keep the tab open onyour phone so you can reread it EVERY DAY while you hang in there til you get something else and set yourself free. I cannot give you better sdvice than this webpage. You need to read it in black and white and grit your teeth. This too shall pass. And good luck!

    https://betterhumans.pub/how-to-handle-a-toxic-manager-e629f2256139

  42. Anonymous

    Anonymous,

    I am so, so sorry to hear that you're going through this. Please know that you are not alone. My bully at Salesforce (my former company) targeted me for about a year before she finally got what she wanted. I agree with others who have pointed out that toxicity comes in all genders/gender identities.

    You *will* get through this because it isn't normal. I hope you have a therapist and a support system, both now and in place for the recovery phase when you do escape your current situation. Please find a therapist or counselor with a background in PTSD or domestic violence because workplace bullying and toxic workplace behavior has so many parallels in terms of psychological impact.

    There is a lot of excellent practical, actionable advice in this thread. As a 20+ year HR professional, here is mine:

    1. Get an appointment with your doctor so you can explain what's going on with your health and have them approve a medical leave of absence for you. If you can't see your doctor for a couple of days, make sure you reach out to your benefits team and formally apply for a short-term disability leave. DO NOT WAIT to apply. There's always a grace period where the doctor paperwork can follow.

    2. Once you're out on leave, immediately prioritize self care. Find a therapist (or speak to your current therapist at least 1-2 times per week). Take long walks. Listen to music. Watch kitten videos. Take naps.

    3. When your head is somewhat more clear, document as much as you can - if you haven't been already. I'm talking dates, times, other people who were present, etc. I documented a lot in my situation, but I still wish I'd started sooner. I used my phone to audio record 1:1s with my manager and some of my peers to I could transcribe their exact words for my notes. Print emails or any other documents that support what you've been going through. I didn't know about it during my toxic bullying (2019-2020) but I've since found out about an app called Trael that I wish I'd had.

    4. While you're doing #2 and #3, I recommend that you look at your financial situation to see just how long you could get by without a job if you had to. If your toxic boss begins some kind of formal performance management actions you're better off forcing them fire you as someone else recommended. You might get a tiny bit of severance because they'll want you to sign a release saying you won't sue and you won't talk. I didn't sign anything when I was dismissed from Salesforce because (1) their severance offer was ridiculous; (2) if you're fired, you're eligible for unemployment compensation - but not if you quit; (3) I wanted to be able to speak openly and without restriction about what happened to me so I could help others, and that's more challenging if you sign the legal paperwork that comes with a severance offer.

    5. Last but not least, use your medical leave to job search. As almost everyone has said, you need to get out. The endgame here is that you find a new role and resign before you ever need to return from leave. It's not going to be easy because your boss has done a number on your confidence. That's why I recommend having some funds set aside if you don't secure something during your leave.

    I can't stress enough that you need to just focus on your future and create your path out of that company. Your boss isn't going to change, and when you're gone he'll just pick someone new to target.

    And it doesn't matter what he or anyone else thinks because you are the owner of your story. No one is surprised by anyone seeking a new job these days - you can say that you love remote and your manager is forcing everyone back and people won't blink an eye. Or you're looking because the opportunity at this company was sold as something different than how it turned out because that's 100% the truth.

    One last thing: I wouldn't bother with HR. And I say this as someone who has been an HR leader for 20+ years. My hell on earth was created by a toxic HR executive and several of my toxic HR peers. My bully is still in a very senior role at Salesforce to this day and unfortunately you're likely at the same kind of company: one that protects bullies.

    Unless it aligns with federal laws that prohibit harassment and discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics, toxic workplace behavior – bullying, threatening, favoritism, sabotage, persistent criticism - remains outside of meaningful legal consequences in the United States. Sadly, the US is behind most of the rest of the world in terms of this level of worker rights and worker protection.

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