I'd love a "gut-check" on this one:

Anonymous

October 11,2021 at 5:52PM UTC

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I'd love a "gut-check" on this one:

I have been interviewing for a marketing leadership position that requested a "homework" assignment, which after some consideration I decided to complete. This assignment was a marketing plan for a made-up brand that of course had many strong similarities to the company doing the hiring. I was pleased when they reached out for another interview and wanted to discuss my work.

When I got on the phone with them, the CMO of the company really focused on my work product (rather than me) and asked a lot of detailed questions about how and why I did what I did. While I did have a few minutes at the end to ask questions on my own, I found him quite vague on next steps and where they were on the process. I left the call feeling a bit used - that's the most accurate word I can think of here.

I also did some Linked In research and his credentials as a CMO are quite light - which leads me to believe he doesn't know a lot about the subject matter. Anyway, I have a bad feeling on it and couldn't really summon the energy to write a thank you note. My question is -- am I judging the situation too harshly? Should I continue to entertainment the opportunity if they reach back out to me? Would love some perspective on this experience.

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AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 6:22PM UTC
The Assignment request is quite common these days but I always watermark my slides or documents with confidential and make my bullet points vague and listed as "for discussion " only. I can then exit the discussion if it becomes clear that the team plans to use my work as their own.
AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 7:08PM UTC
Thanks, at this point, I don't really care whether or not they use the work product. It's out there and I shared it with them. Maybe this is about what you learn in the interview process -- and how much that influences whether or not it makes sense to work there (if there is ultimately an offer).
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 2:14AM UTC
This is a great way to handle those types of requests. I dropped out of interview process one time when I was asked to provide a detailed plan for a project the organization was engaged in, that would have taken me more than 10 hours of work to complete. It was pretty transparent the organization was just looking for free consulting work - especially after the candidates who did proceed, and submitted their plans, were later told the "position had been put on hold" and no one ended up being hired for the job! I think the only way I would agree to complete spec work as part of an interview process would be to do exactly what you describe: keep things vague and high-level; make sure everything is watermarked; and also for me, I would limit the amount of time I spent on the project to a couple of hours. If something is going to take me longer than that, it tips over into "free consulting."
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 1:09PM UTC
LMAO@watermark - I LOVE IT!!! I would've loved to be a fly on the wall when you presented that. Their reactions would've portrayed their true intentions. . . .
Tomilyn RichardsOctober 11,2021 at 7:04PM UTC
This is really a tough one. I like the idea of doing some kind of technical presentation, depending on your craft... but I always hesitate on putting too much in the power point/Presentation versus having an overview and talking through much of the detail... so it can't be used. I hate to think that there are managers/employers that would do that... Did you hear back from them on next steps yet?
AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 7:10PM UTC
Not yet... am supposed to hear something this week. I am intrigued to know where it stands.
Barb HansenOctober 11,2021 at 8:27PM UTC
Are you judging the situation too harshly? Maybe but if you want the job - write the thank you note, and continue on.
If your interaction with the CMO has put you off - then send a "Thank you but I'm out" email.
This company might be a great opportunity for you. If they don't have a strong marketing leader in as their CMO, he may want to have a strong VP/Director below him, and you might get more opporunities to interact with the leadership team (assuming he trusts you).
Trust your gut and if your gut is still feeling used, give your gut another day before deciding. if you still feel this way a few days after the interview, then you have your answer.
I'm not a fan of interview "homework" assignments - giving them to potential employees and doing them when I'm looking for work.
The last time I was faced with a homework assignment which accordingly to the hiring company was going to take about 10 to 20 hours to complete, I declined moving forward with the position. I decided that I was not going to "give" 10 to 20 hours of product work to a company that didn't have strong Product leadership (which was the position I was applying for). If the company had a strong product leader, I probably would have done the work but then again, if the company had a strong product leader, they won't have a 10 to 20 hour homework assignment as part of their hiring process. that homework assignment would have been a few hours at the most.
Ruthann MekitaOctober 11,2021 at 8:44PM UTC
It seems to me that “homework assessments” such as this are a way of getting advice for free that then can be used by that company without cost to them or opportunities for the candidates.
AnonymousOctober 11,2021 at 9:23PM UTC
Great response, thank you.
Lorna Rose, J.D., M.S.October 11,2021 at 9:24PM UTC
Your gut is right, this is all too common and it sucks for the candidate every time. The last time I did spec work as part of the hiring process, I didn’t get the job but I saw my work on their social media less than a week after the generic “thanks but diff direction” email from them.
I’m generally against any kind of unpaid labor, including spec work. That being said, spec work CAN provide the candidate with some valuable insight. What are their instructions like? Does the assignment make sense? Is it reflective of what you presumed the actual work would be like? Some spec work can give you a taste of what’s to come in the role. Also worth nothing that I wouldn’t automatically decline the request if it were a job I really wanted and the assignment wasn’t unreasonably laborious.
Christy K. HanthornOctober 12,2021 at 12:30PM UTC
Trust your gut. I've heard of candidates' work being used after the fact with no credit given to the creator. I've even remember reading about a candidate who sent a bill and threatened legal action if it wasn't paid. I'm not sure if the latter was worth it, but...
Sarah ChapinOctober 12,2021 at 12:47PM UTC
This happened to me with a writing job. I was asked to write an article on a particular topic so they could judge how well I fit their voice. Made sense initially because the organization had a very specific focus that writers wouldn’t necessarily already have samples of. I never heard back from them after sending the article even when I followed up. I was suspicious so I went on their site and found my article posted under the editor’s name. I was in my early 20s and lacked confidence as a professional which I regret because I could have taken legal action or threatened them with it to have the article taken down or at least have my name added. Not doing anything about it is one of my biggest regrets.
Robin WOctober 12,2021 at 12:41PM UTC
I once interviewed for a position I really wanted and during the interview they wanted names of former clients I thought I could bring as income to the new company. I told them I give them names when they hired me. I didn't get the position but I was glad I didn't give them the names so they could target them. I would send the "Thank you" letter just to be courteous but ultimately go with your gut. I'm thankful I didn't get the position but it hurt in the short term. FYI the company I didn't get the offer from went into receivership. So I made out better in the long run and you will too.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 3:10PM UTC
Wow, that's quite a story. I can't believe that any company would ask for names. It might be appropriate to ask about your industry contacts i.e. what brands/companies or sectors, but I cannot believe they would ask for actual names! You did the right thing.
AnonymousOctober 14,2021 at 6:21PM UTC
Yup. I’ve made this mistake, too. Some agencies/companies troll past employees of their competitors for BD purposes just as you noted. They offer a role they have no plan on giving you, they take all your materials.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 12:43PM UTC
Been in that situation enough times to say you’re likely right that they’re using you as research or fill an HR interview quota. I’m finding if they have no timeline, clear expectations and next steps throughout the entire hiring process - they’re either not truly interested in hiring me, the company’s HR and internal workings are a mess, and/or they’re using you as research for a project or client pitch.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 12:50PM UTC
I cannot think of better way to see who can market both themselves and a product. Presenting you ideas also shows your communication skills. I think the interview homework is ingenious! I love the out of box thinking. This is so much better than a boring, stuffy interview with the standard qusetioning.
I would write the thank you and complement his creativity.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 12:51PM UTC
Trust your intuition. I have been in this situation before. Although I understand that the task was designed to see and evaluate how you think, I also find it unnecessary.
Karen BurkeOctober 12,2021 at 1:03PM UTC
I am at the point where if I apply for a position and there's an "assignment", I decline to continue with the interviewing process unless it's a paid project. Why should I do work like that for a company for free? In the area that I am applying, many companies let you know that this is part of the process ahead of time, and whether or not you are paid for the work.
Honestly I wouldn't even consider this position were I in your shoes. If it's making you this uncomfortable to begin with, that's usually a sign.
A good idea might be to create a portfolio (if you don't already have one) and start putting work you do there for interviews in the future. That way, if someone does ask you to do work like this, you can refer them to your portfolio. If they don't like that and still ask you to do an (unpaid) project, then I'd tell them no thanks.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 1:03PM UTC
The assignment is already done, but in the future if given a similar assignment where the work product is very similar to what the company offers, I would suggest an alternative work product or ask to be compensated for your time as they probably plan on utilizing your "homework" in their office without you.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 1:06PM UTC
Also, try to hide some "special characters" in your work for easy reference (or PROOF) should you find it used elsewhere (i.e. white font, or a hidden message, etc.)
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 2:08PM UTC
I agree with the great responses to this question. I would add that when I was looking to fill a marketing position with a creative background such as graphic design, I did ask for examples of work. I did see some really good examples that did offer me some ideas for future advertising. But what I found very strong was one particular candidate whose creative work was excellent did put water marks on her portfolio and I never kept a copy of the portfolios I always give portfolios back. Because in my mind I didn't need to keep the portfolio I could make comments on the resume.
Claire McCabeOctober 12,2021 at 2:25PM UTC
If your gut says no, listen to it! The interview is a preview to the actual job. Once you’re in the role, it will be this times a hundred.
Also, in my humble opinion- this new trend of tests, projects, and free work during the interview process has got to go!
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 3:07PM UTC
Thanks Claire! I really like the comment "The interview is a preview to the actual job." Great insight.
Healthcare workerOctober 12,2021 at 3:22PM UTC
I agree to the free work during the interview process needing to go. It would take a consensus of job seekers to make it stop and that’s not going to happen unfortunately.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 9:43PM UTC
Agreed...I have been asked to create a whole database, develop a dashboard in Excel and create multiple reports that included macros. Hard pass all 3 times.
Karen GongawareOctober 12,2021 at 2:48PM UTC
If they offer take it. But be careful about giving out too much advice or free work. That is what they do, pick your brains and use your knowledge and then ghost you. I ask for a consulting fee now if they want me to write a treatment plan for a client or lesson plans for a subject to get a job.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 2:51PM UTC
I'm not a lawyer and I wish someone who is would reply but is it doable to (along with the great tips already offered here) write out a quick contract for all parties to sign saying that the content or style of your work can't be used in any way by the company? NO idea if a. that's legally enforceable or b. an employer would sign that. But certainly, if someone won't sign it, you know the score and can pull out of the process. Oh you might add to the proposed contract that the work cannot be used unless you are given the job and take it.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 3:04PM UTC
all right, i just asked a lawyer: a quick document you write out with signatures and clear statements would be enforceable but of course you'd have to sue to enforce it. So that's something.... but I do wonder if such a statement would let you know the score (depending on whether the company signed it--if not you can be sure that something is potentially going to go bad for you). It's always a trade. You may lose out on a good job by refusing anything that someone else won't refuse. You may get totally ripped off in the process too. I really really hate t his for all of you being asked to do it.
EMILY KIKUE FRANKOctober 12,2021 at 3:04PM UTC
Trust your instincts. Your wise inner voice is talking so you should hear her out.
Lauren Springer (she/her/hers)October 12,2021 at 3:05PM UTC
There’s already many good responses here so I’ll just highlight a few:
- create a portfolio and add as much detail as possible about the project, your role, others you worked with, tools used, impact, etc.
- offer to do a portfolio review with the hiring team. This gives them the opportunity to review your work, ask questions and you get to highlight your work in your way.
- don’t do work for free. If it’s lightweight, theoretical work, maybe. But if they want a full project completed, get paid and sign something that protects your work.
Mich.Fr.October 12,2021 at 3:21PM UTC
Always listen to your gut.
froerden@yahoo.comOctober 12,2021 at 4:02PM UTC
You’re right. He doesn’t know but he knows YOU know more than him. Ergo, he gets a great marketing idea and gives himself credit and you don’t get the job, although you deserve it. Move on. Use your fake product plan for the next interview! Good luck.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 4:14PM UTC
Our company has a process of doing a homework assignment and meeting about it early in the process. If it is determined the candidate has the technical skills we move forward with the softer interviews. For me, I do not look for perfection here, it is more how the candidate thinks and approaches problems. I am not saying this is a great process, but it is becoming common as many people talk a good game during the interview and then have no idea how to do the job.
Elizabeth CharbonneauOctober 12,2021 at 5:33PM UTC
My gut says he used the interview to get free consulting work. I'd keep my eyes open for other options. Sorry.
AnonymousOctober 12,2021 at 6:03PM UTC
Years ago I was in the same situation and boy was I surprised - after being told they put the position on hold - to find the “sample” copy I wrote for them actually used on their website. I tracked down the CEO of the company threatening legal action and it was removed immediately. Ever since I have always told potential employers that my portfolio represents the range of my skills.
Gerald WoodsOctober 12,2021 at 6:07PM UTC
Personally, I don't like companies that are vague. When a company is not upfront, I tend to think that there has to be a problem or an underlying condition. I wouldn't entertain the opportunity, because just like they reject many people daily, you also have a right to choose. You probably did his work assignment for him, but he will never say.
Sarah LarsonOctober 12,2021 at 7:57PM UTC
Trust your gut. Also, you can always ask for references from your new boss. In that, they'll ask for your references and you can ask for them too.
misskelleypOctober 12,2021 at 11:18PM UTC
They totally used you for some free work. I HATE it when companies do that.
AnonymousOctober 13,2021 at 1:12AM UTC
That is illegal.
AnonymousOctober 17,2021 at 12:43AM UTC
How is an employment simulation illegal?
Madam anon663October 13,2021 at 8:40AM UTC
Oh heck no. Never give away your work for free.
AnonymousOctober 13,2021 at 11:54PM UTC
I have personally designed these small exercises that are not at all related to current client work. They are extremely effective in identifying folks that are able To talk through their thought process (even if it’s a fake one), identify their level of comfort with uncertainty and limited inputs (which is frequently the case in our area) and, how receptive they are to feedback.
If you are feeling used, it could be because the context was not sufficiently set. I usually say that it is just to see the thought process. It’s a framework upon which to have a conversation.
I hope this helps.
AnonymousOctober 13,2021 at 11:56PM UTC
I disagree with other posters. It wasn’t free work. It was clearly stipulated that it was for a fake situation. It was a simulation. They focused on that work product because that was an objective way of assessing your marketing plan abilities. It should have been a mutual discussion though.
Diane BettencourtOctober 15,2021 at 5:56PM UTC
I once interviewed for a company that is now super successful but known as a sweat shop. They requested "home work" assignment that took over 4 hours to complete. Asked me questions, deep dive into every aspect of that assignment. Got a congrats- going to the next level. I did that as well and this time it was another 3 hours. After that, I received a thanks but no thanks. I later learned they used by case studies to the T. I will never again do "homework" for a company unless I have an offer letter.