Seeking advice.

43 Comments

1. AnonymousNovember 19,2022 at 5:17PM UTC

   This happened to me (I am a woman with extensive PM and PMM experience) at Instagram.

   I was attacked by the inexperienced, volatile PM (female, younger) right away. A few snipes from two other leads who were catty, and refused to collaborate. Manager did nothing but made it worse. Engineering liked me and worked with me and that made the PM even more aggressive. PM openly called me out on group calls and chats. She tried to give my work away. My direction proved right and she had gaps and rework. It was a miserable experience yet there were so many other great teams. I tried to move teams then I left. But what I wish I had done was walk out right after being treated like trash by an incompetent stakeholder whom they gave power to. Find a new job.

   PS no one should be surprised about layoffs at Meta. It was long overdue based on my observation. Plenty of people seeking power over doing good and decent work.

2. Terri ClarkNovember 19,2022 at 7:14PM UTC

   Stop worrying about his race and gender. Put your strengths forward. When you are prepared for a meeting take the lead and deliver your updates. If he presents incorrect or incomplete information, after he finishes chime in with "actually, this is where we are...". You were hired for your skills and personality, over him. Be brave and put yourself out there!

3. AnonymousNovember 19,2022 at 7:34PM UTC

   I'm not worrying about his race and gender but it's quite naive of you to assume that those two things don't matter in the workplace.

4. Kristen SteinerNovember 19,2022 at 8:16PM UTC

   Absolutely agree -- it's VERY naive to think race and gender don't matter in the workplace. Really. On Fairygodboss? Where being a woman matters?

5. AnonymousNovember 20,2022 at 4:29AM UTC

   Thank you. I don't think anyone can imagine with the straight face if I, as a woman of color, was the contractor who was lording over a white male FTE and playing block the box with him. I've worked as a contractor before. Typically, I'm trying to keep my contract so I'm helping FTEs as much as possible. But maybe that's just for people of color.

6. Terri ClarkNovember 22,2022 at 7:22PM UTC

   I'm not saying race and gender don't matter, just that she should not let his race and gender stop her from doing her job. The problem is actually his behavior and that he's upset she got the job he wanted. She was chosen for a reason, probably because her employer thought she could keep this guy in the box and get the job done.

7. tiffany birchNovember 19,2022 at 7:42PM UTC

   Ditto. Well said ?

8. Lori Laurito BetzNovember 21,2022 at 1:52PM UTC

   Spoken like someone who has no awareness of her own privilege…it must be nice to live in a bubble in which race, gender, etc have absolutely no impact on what goes on in the workplace

9. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 3:02AM UTC

   That person's callus response is exactly why gender diversity is always inadequate without considering race, ethnicity and other important factors. Far too often, gender diversity alone results in women who share many of the same hateful thoughts as their male counterparts.

10. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 8:29PM UTC

    Hard agree. Also, I wanted to put this out there. Maybe it will help someone, or help someone else understand. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/all-career-advice-for-women-is-a-form-of-gaslighting If you aren't in the *exact* situation, You. Don't. Know.

11. AnonymousNovember 19,2022 at 7:30PM UTC

    Bottom line: They screwed up and want you to fix it.

    iPhone Guy hasn't done anything 'bad' to get fired outright, but people who were probably told he's a genius quickly found out they were lied to. They can't get rid of him (likely he has a buddy in power), but they don't want their business to fail. So they hire someone looking to prove themselves, in the hope that they'll overachieve enough to counter iPhone Guy's poor performance.

    This will NOT get better on its own. If you really like this job, be prepared to fight for it. Show them you're ready to fight for it, rather than looking to others to solve the problem. Otherwise start looking elsewhere.

12. AnonymousNovember 20,2022 at 4:28AM UTC

    You are so right.

    I worked at another very well known tech company where the CEO and CSuite's friends and fam were often placed in cushy, overpaid jobs that did not quite match their skills and capabilities. I think I will plan concurrently. Do the best I can, but also keep an eye open for something else in case this doesn't get any better.

13. AnonymousNovember 21,2022 at 2:43PM UTC

    If that person was passed over because it was determined by performance they were unable to do the job. They are refusing to assist with the transition. Add to it the sabotage and undermining. My question would be why is the company still contracting with this person? If you were the solution then what was the transition plan to move on from the contractor? If there wasn’t a plan then I would use that to empower myself but setting the timeline based on my progress. You are not going to get anything from this person so you do not need them and the company already made that decision when they hired you. I understand the environment you work in all to well and until we move away from “white male dominated” work culture we will continue with the work arounds. You may have the leverage in this situation and although your race may not be the same the privilege you share is that of the FTE status. Good luck.

14. Arlene Frances Gottardo (Bryak)November 22,2022 at 1:24PM UTC

    If this is causing you stress, if you dread going to work every day, then you surely need to speak to upper mgmt. HOWEVER, if you think that this just might be a hurdle to overcome as you become acclimated to this company & colleagues, then do your best to work through this. Consider perhaps, that this obstacle just has to be met- do your work as best & you can. Personally, I’d really try to get through this without asking mgmt. for help- at least for a while. I guess, in a way, acclimation-in this case-becomes almost PART of this job. Everyone goes through a bit of this, we all want to kind of fit into a company's culture, right? Other than that, document any & all out-of-the-ordinary behavior. I would.

15. Rae WagonerNovember 22,2022 at 1:40PM UTC

    Does this jackwagon report to you in your new role? I think that's an important piece of the puzzle, because if he is not your subordinate, then there's no insubordination. (The way we deal with subordinates is different than the way we deal with peers.) Also, if they hired you for this job, do they still even need iPhone guy?

16. Alison PituchNovember 22,2022 at 1:47PM UTC

    I would say stay strong! If you have been proactive towards addressing the issue to no avail then you are left to navigate this on your own. As I am sure it can be intimidating in a new role don't forget that you were hired for your expertise and what you will deliver in the role. Your managers have most likely a process for the situation but are not able to communicate that for privacy. Do your very best in the role and with eloquence in your interactions in all you do. In the end the troublesome contractor will either warm up or be gone. As long as you are doing your job and dealing with the controversy with emotional intelligence and integrity than you will shine. It will get easier and you can enjoy the role as you should! Good luck!

17. GirlBossanova934974November 22,2022 at 2:18PM UTC

    For my money, I would leave the race and gender out of this story. It isn't helping. The best thing to do is put yourself in the business owner's shoes or upper level manager. You know you have a substandard contractor who left you on the side of the road. This contractor is basically a small time technician who can fix a few things and that's it. So you bring in this new full time employee who is supposed to be able to fix the mess. But what do you know now? What happens if the new full time employee decides the job is not for her? What if she doesn't work out? You better have plan B aka keeping the old contractor around who can keep the place from shutting down. All this being said, it is time to show you can get the job done and the need for plan B is NON EXISTENT. I would NOT take any guff from this contractor on any conference calls. Correct him on the spot and go about your business. I have been in this situation many years ago. When our new VP of IT came in, we had 2 people for every job. One was a contractor and the other was a full time employee. In half the case, the contractors were backing up a full time employee who wasn't showing up for work at least 1-2 days per pay period. It was all BUDDY BUDDY! The new VP got rid of most of the contractors in the first few months and then dumped 1-2 full timers when they couldn't figure out a way to show up for work. It takes a bit of time and one has to show one's worth and not be distracted by the "hangers-on". Show your expertise and worth.

18. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:56AM UTC

    The only reason race and gender aren't working for you is because you've never had to be on the disadvantaged side of both. Simply being a woman is not the same as being a black woman and a white male dominated industry.

19. GirlBossanova934974November 23,2022 at 10:28PM UTC

    I think you have made a huge assumption. That assumption is that "White Males" are kind and generous to "White Males". After 37 years in the working world, I can say without pause that assumption is without merit. Earlier in my career, I had to pull one "white male" off the other "white male" in a variety of very tense and highly conflict oriented companies. Shouting matches were just the start. These dudes wouldn't have given an inch to a dying relative.

20. AnonymousDecember 24,2022 at 7:36AM UTC

    I don't think she made the assumption that white men are only kind to white men. Sounds like she's uncomfortable as a double minority setting boundaries with a white man. There is that deep rooted "stay in your place" and "get back" mentality that many people of color struggle with. We could be the most accomplished and educated person in the room but will still struggle with feelings of inferiority and imposter syndrome.

21. AnonymousDecember 24,2022 at 7:33AM UTC

    Wish I could like your comment 100 times

22. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 3:10AM UTC

    You're making an inaccurate assumption that I'm not showing my worth. I have from day one. Actually before day one. Race and gender matter. There are a lot of people who have chosen to chime in on this thread who need to seriously question where they stand with true inclusion.

23. GirlBossanova934974November 23,2022 at 10:32PM UTC

    If it I were me, I would be focused on establishing my KPIs, meeting with stakeholders, reaching out to the CFO organization, prioritizing projects, and making sure I am getting the resources needed to get things done. Worrying about some technician's off hand opinions are a distraction.

24. AnonymousDecember 24,2022 at 7:32AM UTC

    You are absolutely wrong. Race AND gender do matter and its condescending and insensitive for you to indicate she should check her race and gender at the door. I'm happy that you likely have never had to be mindful of your race and are allowed to just "be." I'm also a woman of color and know exactly how the OP feels.

25. AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 3:00PM UTC

    You seem to expect your boss and the company to be your nanny.

    You're an adult, therefore start acting like one!

    Stop expecting others to mediate your relationships.

    Stop playing the "I'm a victim!" card, making excuses why you're uncomfortable setting boundaries.

    You have 2 choices:

    (1) Immediately become "professionally aggressive" and show everyone you know what you're doing (Look for some low hanging fruit wins.) and that you don't take crap from anyone. This is how you will earn respect.

    (2) Leave. (Basically let the other person chase you out.)

    Nobody owes you any nice and fuzzy "Welcome to the team" attitude. Everyone is looking out for themselves, and so should you.

26. Helen RubinsteinNovember 22,2022 at 4:56PM UTC

    This is a bit harsh and I disagree strongly that the only options are to either act badly back or leave. I would suggest another option: act in a way that re-asserts your status. It sounds like your managers missed one critical step in bringing you on board: introducing you as the new holder of this role and thereby communicating publicly that you hold the expertise. It happens - managers aren't perfect and often don't understand the value of rolling out new leadership or new programs. To make up for this (if appropriate) request a team meeting in which you introduce YOURSELF as the leader/holder of this position. Introduce yourself with a brief overview of your expertise, perhaps give a little overview of the direction you'll be taking, and at the end, be gracious and say you are open to input and feedback from members who have been at the company longer. In future meetings where Mr Know It All acts like the boss he isn't, respond with "thank you for your input [Mr Know It All], if you have any suggestions I'll be happy to hear* and consider* them offline." *This language indicates that he is only in a position to make suggestion whereas it is you are the more senior decision-maker. Use this language repeatedly to assert yourself as the leader. Continue to seek support from your managers and ask them outright to repeat the messaging they are providing one-on-one publicly as well, because that is helpful. But even if they don't, you still have yourself to create the narrative that they should have: that it's your role now. Best of luck!

27. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:55AM UTC

    Best answer! This is the approach I'm taking and getting some great results this week!

28. RiaDecember 24,2022 at 7:30AM UTC

    Well said.

29. AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 6:31PM UTC

    I agree with the overarching sentiment here but not the crappy and demeaning way it was worded. I’m sure the company knows they have an issue and the best thing you could do for your career is to work around or solve the issue. That will firmly put you in a position of power in many respects. Think of it as you want him to play in your game, you are not there to play in his. Get some small wins without him. Don’t actively exclude him, just go about your business and do great work. I’m sure it’s easier said than done and Im writing from a position of privilege but I would give this same answer to anyone. Bring your A game, embrace subtlety and do great work! That’s how you positive attention from leadership in this case. Fingers crossed for you!!

30. AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 7:15PM UTC

    JFC, I thought this was supposed to be a safe space! Presumably we're all women here and have all had our share of men prancing around playing god-of-everything. Why the crap to punch on OP for no good reason? Beyond that, point 1 has validity, sure, but we're all well aware of what society doesn't think it owes us, including respect. I guess I won't be posting much of anything in future.

31. AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 8:56PM UTC

    While the poster was harsh I'm in complete agreement with not thinking like a victim and not feeling owed. A few years back a manager told be bluntly, "I, nor this company, owes you anything beyond the paycheck you agreed to. If you don't like it here you know where the door is." The moment I stopped thinking I was owed, was the moment my life changed... I took responsibility for my actions and decisions.

32. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:54AM UTC

    There's nothing in my original comment about thinking like a victim or feeling that something is owed. That's your own baggage feeding into what is not written. Perhaps you two have experienced so much toxicity that you are trying to normalize it. Every employee deserves and should expect an equitable and reasonably collegial work environment. If you're expectation is drama, you've been harmed and need to learn how to find better environments.

33. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 7:28PM UTC

    Unlike you I set boundaries and expecations... I demand no less than full respect, which is what I give. The result: I'm going into my 8th year with my employer. Was the beginning rough? They sure were! I had my opposition, but I proved mself, becuyase unlike you I didn't sit back an expect my employer to be my nanny.

    YOU'RE AN ADULT, yet you expect others to faciliate your relationships. How pathetic! You're not owed a job, let alone an employer to hold your hands.

    (It wouldn't surprise me that you're the only person who doesn't get along with this person.)

34. AnonymousDecember 24,2022 at 7:28AM UTC

    There was nothing in the OP post that indicated she was playing the victim card.

35. Nibor EroomNovember 27,2022 at 10:51PM UTC

    Please continue to post. Do not let a minority opinion affect your reaching out. Notice they are posting anonymously. Unfortunately, even in this forum, there are troops and people being rude.

36. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:52AM UTC

    I'm so sorry that you are so miserable. Thankfully, I realize how irrelevant your comment is. But if you were adding this nonsense to someone who was in a darker place, it would be destructive. Step back and know when to keep your thoughts to yourself.

37. AnonymousDecember 24,2022 at 7:27AM UTC

    Well said. Was surprised that nasty, vicious comment received 4 upvotes.

38. AnonymousDecember 28,2022 at 3:00PM UTC

    Saying what others are think, yet afraid to say, usually gets upvotes. Yes, the poster was harsh, but you can't deny the fact they told the raw truth.

39. AnonymousDecember 30,2022 at 4:36PM UTC

    They did not tell the raw truth. They told their version of how they see things. There was nothing in the OP comment that indicated she was playing victim.

40. AnonymousNovember 22,2022 at 7:02PM UTC

    First off, I’m sorry that you are going through this. What I see you dealing with is Micro-aggression from a counterpart…micro-assault, micro -insult, or micro-invalidation. There are lots of people hired into roles in which they are not qualified and go about trying to devalue others due to their inferiority.

    When I went through this I didn’t even know the term for it and I just knew what these people were doing seemed crazy and unprofessional. The first one I would call him out on the spot in our team meetings and point out his shoddy work. The second two were incompetent and inexperienced females similar to the character you’re dealing with. They eventually tripped themselves up due to the incompetence. If it’s possible to work around him do so. Find the knowledgeable resources that are key to doing your job and work with them. Document your work and status it to the team/managers and stakeholders. If there is a project manager that should make your job easier as they should be tracking the tasks as you build out the infrastructure.

    Get comfortable setting parameters/ boundaries for all as you have to teach people how to treat you. Don’t be afraid to call people out on their bad behavior in a calm professional manner…just talk to them as you would talk to a two year old. Don’t ever get out of character as that is what they are counting on. There are phases to keep the focus on the work itself like “let’s stick to the task at hand or let’s focus on this issue if you have productive input.”

    Always have a backup plan and don’t tolerate bad behavior which makes you miserable coming to work everyday. Others are not going to fight your battles for you although they might empathize with you. Toughen up and work around Mr. Know it all and do the job you were hired to do. You know your stuff and you got this!

    There are plenty of books and materials on the market now on Micro-aggressions and how to deal with it. In todays climate the work place has become quite crazy! Think about how many people from the January 6th riot went right back to work afterwards.

    I notice that all the people telling you not to worry about race and gender are the ones that never had to worry about race and gender! We know what’s up though!

    Good luck!

41. AnonymousNovember 23,2022 at 2:50AM UTC

    Thank you!

42. AnonymousNovember 26,2022 at 1:21PM UTC

    Firstly, I want to say I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Secondly, I want to apologize on behalf of all the commenters who are dismissing your experience.

    To answer your question, I was in this very place myself. Almost instantly after taking a job, I had a similar story and I was foolish enough to eat the bs that management gave me about how "things are changing". When I realized (after only a month) that nothing was going to change, I told myself that I have to somehow make it to a year, so as not to screw up my resume. I regret that so much. In the end, I barely made it 10 months, I absolutely have PtSD from it, and the situations only got worse. Later, I ended up talking to a recruiter that advised me, "never stay when you already know you should leave". So that's my advice to you. I don't know how you are financially or what industry you're in, but if I were you I'd do the best I could to try to make it as "safe" as I can for myself (one poster mentioned kpis) and look for a new job immediately.

43. Liz MilneNovember 27,2022 at 3:27PM UTC

    Honestly, it sounds like they've realised that this original hire is utterly useless, but don't want to 'be mean' to him: so they've hired you to actually do the work, knowing what you're doing, and they also want you to deal with him. You've got, I think, two courses of action (neither pleasant): one, square up to your managers and ask what the deal is with the original hire and why he is being allowed to treat you in that way; or two, call out the original hire when he starts talking over you or down to you. Neither are the way it should be, but it's that or just spend your life squeezed between him and management. It sucks :(