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Blindsided by PIP

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Blindsided by PIP

UPDATE: Thank you so much to everyone who wished me well here. I just received the other job offer today and will be starting in 3 weeks. For everyone out there struggling there is HOPE even in this job market.

So I have been at this job for exactly a year after being laid off from my previous role. It was not my top choice. Very small family business and not the best pay. One of the huge upsides was the company culture. Unlimited PTO, flexible work environment, remote, great management, and a good learning opportunity (I thought).

Then some things started looking down for the business and the culture changed quite literally overnight. After a year of leadership smiling and laughing during meetings they have become extremely serious, have accused the entire team of being "low accountability," and have walked back basically all of their flexible work policy in the course of a week.

Then I was randomly pulled into a PIP meeting and utterly blindsided. Mind you, I had recieved nothing but glowing reviews up until that point. I had always asked multiple questions about my performance and got glowing feedback during any 1:1 meetings. Unfortunately they don't do written performance reviews being so small, so I don't have proof to show potential employers. They were even fast tracking me to a promotion, which they pulled.

What I think happened is some of my coworkers who I thought I had a positive relationship with were passing the buck to me because they didn't want to be held accountable for some errors. I provided proof that nearly all of the claims that they were outright false, and just got a thumbs up emoji for the screenshots. Another thing was an "error" from 6 months ago that nobody communicated with me on at the time, and another was something nobody told me was an error that I thought I had done correctly (I had offered to take on tasks for a system I was being trained on to help another coworker with their workload).

For other claims they are retroactively walking back standards. They claim I was taking too much PTO despite ALWAYS saying we didn't have to ask to take it as long as we were not missing tasks or meetings. Several times when I asked I was told to quit asking and just take it. Despite disclosing to my manager that I was having some health issues, which have been accommodated for other team members, they acted like I was abusing the policy. This is after months of offering to cross train and cover for people who were leaving while still handling my own workload. I have always answered Slack messages promptly, even while on lunch or PTO. I have come in early, stayed late, and done everything I can to be helpful and friendly to everyone.

Anyway, I am interviewing for a dream role but I am worried they will want to contact this employer. Before this started happening I told the other company about how wonderful my current employer is. I am worried if they contact them for a reference after their opinion of me has so drastically changed that it will kill the offer (if I get one). In my state it is legal for former employers to basically say whatever they want about you, so I don't have protections there. I might have recourse if they bring up the false accusations but there is no real way to prove that saying I was "using too much PTO" or that I "made a lot of errors" is false since that is opinion.

If I don't get the offer, I don't know how to address this in future interviews. Please help. I am the sole provider and have been so stressed from this that I lost 5 lbs. I don't want to lose another job but I feel like I don't have a choice. I don't know what I did to put a target on my back, but I feel pretty miserable and my mental health has suffered a lot.

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  1. Anonymous

    I have nothing to say except I have been here before and it's rough. Luckily it hasn't really impacted my career too much. I just let hiring managers know it wasn't the most positive work environment. Be aware though that a PIP is usually showing you the door. Not always, but 90% of the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to get rid of you and claim performance issues to save face on firing for financial reasons.

  2. Anonymous

    Yes, I have prepared for that possibility. Not sure if I should resign to get ahead of it or let them fire me. I am worried that it will look worse in job interviews to be fired, but I can't get unemployment (which I will need) if I resign.

  3. Anonymous

    Sadly, this is all too common with a lot of super-small family run places. I would say just give them the number for HR but it sounds like they don't have one. Just hang in there.

  4. Anonymous

    They don't, unfortunately. It is definitely an issue I have seen for other people as well when the business doesn't have that professional barrier.

  5. Anonymous

    I was at a job for exactly 2 years when I was let go. NEVER written up, in that two years I missed 5 days unexpectedly (3 of those were the week they let me go). I worked weekends, nights & holidays with no extra pay just my regular overtime rate. Was told over & over how valuable I was and that I didn’t have to worry about ever being let go then I am out sick for three days, I came back for one day and was fired by text on a Saturday! With the excuse he was dissolving my position but yet he hired someone to fill that spot within a month of letting me go. It’s just the state of the job industry today if they can find someone to work cheaper they will & they let some of the best employees go so they don’t have to pay them

    more. The company I worked for was an individually owned company

  6. Anonymous

    I am so sorry that happened to you. If it's any consolation, it does make me feel better to know I am not alone. Thank you for sharing. It's a really tough time for workers and I definitely see many employers taking advantage.

  7. Nancy Cincotta

    Sounds like they can’t afford you but don’t want to have to fund unemployment insurance increases. At least it’s a common tactic that I’ve seen. I hope you’re not taking it personally. It’s very much a them problem. See what you can do about moving on.

  8. Anonymous

    Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It does make me feel much better.

  9. Brenda Crawshaw

    My question would be has the dream job place asked why you are looking for a new opportunity. If they have, can you use the reason you gave as a reason why your current employer might not share the excellent feedback you deserve?

    This almost same thing happened to me once - I discovered, though, that the reason they turned on us all was that they were trying to sell the practice and the potential buyers were putting the screws to them. I was looking for something new because the owner was, frankly, a psycho. (He eventually lost his license to practice because he was so unhinged.)

    I told prospective employers that they were free to contact my current employer but that he had made it clear that he would only say negative things because he didn't want any of us to leave. True.

    It makes me wonder if you can fiddlefudge something like that in this instance. You could infer that you have a sense that they are so desperate to keep people right now that they will not accord you the praise you deserve out of fear. It's a little bit of a gray area but if there's ANY inkling this could be true, USE it!

    You could also be totally honest and say that recently the company leaders have done a 180, that you are all totally befuddled and "deeply concerned" for them all, that you've heard them say things about employees that just aren't true (TRUE - it's about you but it's still true) and that you aren't exactly sure what they might say.

    Go with your gut. And good luck and keep us posted. We are rooting for you!

  10. Anonymous

    Thank you so much for your empathetic reply. I had absolutely no idea this was coming so I already said very nice things in earlier interviews about the current job. I am just know that will seem odd if they want to do a reference check, although I have many glowing recs from previous roles. However, I do have a team lead who is a very nice person and I genuinely believe he would not say anything bad. Do you think it could work to say, "The department supervisor is very busy as management is making some major changes (true) and she has been in and out over the past few months due to health issues (also true). Would it be alright to use my team lead as a contact point instead?" Does that sound reasonable? Idk if they will even check because they are a smaller company as well and the HR lady told me they really only run background checks. I think a lot of employers have stopped asking unless the reference was directly listed due to all the bad blood in the market now but I am still losing sleep over it.

  11. Joyce Breitweiser Hall

    If you feel comfortable telling your team lead you are looking for a new job, ask them to be a reference for you. It’s important that your team lead is prepared to say good things about you.

  12. Anonymous

    Let the prospective employer know that you cannot use your current employer as a reference for fear of losing your job. Find an advocate within that can vouch for you if you get an offer. Or firm up references from previous employers. Don't go into defensive mode where you are follow the path you are in and stay above the internal drama. Good luck.

  13. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I haven't worked at a company that checks references in years. We do employment and education verification and a criminal background check. We verify dates of employment and title. That's it.

    Many companies no longer keep their own employment records, they outsource it to a third party vendor, although a company that small might not outsource it.

    When you fill out the background check form, you should be able to check a box that says "do not contact this employer" - you will then have to verify that employment yourself - most likely with W2s.

  14. Anonymous

    That is very reassuring, thank you!

  15. Anonymous

    If I check a reference, it usually means I already have a red flag.

  16. Anonymous

    The company is obviously failing and dragging you with it due to your willingness to take on extra without understanding the impact.

  17. Anonymous

    Just check the box “no” that asks if they can contact your former employer. I’ve done that if I’m currently employed, not scheduled for layoff, and looking. I don’t want my current employer to know I’m looking. If the prospective employer asks why you checked no (I’ve never had them ask) just tell them you don’t want your current employer to know. No more explanation necessary. Don’t say anything negative in interviews about the current employer. Don’t mention PIP, don’t mention 180 turnaround and definitely don’t mention others are blaming you for their mistakes. Keep it about YOU not them. Focus on any new skills you learned, or if that current position offered opportunities to gain more experience with current skills. Focus on what this new role and company can offer such as new skills, a great culture, better pipeline, whatever it is. Again, keep focus on you not other company. Don’t put anymore emphasis on the current employer. You were there a year, that is not going to look bad to prospective employers. Good luck! I hope you land where they appreciate you.

  18. Anonymous

    Thank you, I appreciate the kind reply.

  19. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  20. GirlBossanova934974

    You are completely correct in leaving this company. When your new company contacts your current company, they are going to get employment dates and that is it. Every HR organization knows that providing information beyond that can get them named in a good sized lawsuit. Second, you need to get YOUR OWN references from your current company. You need to do it now. Of course, the person who can give you the reference should be trustworthy and give you a good reference. Last, the company you are being targeted, is trying to reduce headcount without paying unemployment. They themselves were far too generous with their staff aka they went on a big spending spree. Now reality has hit and it is time to get rid of overhead. It is not personal. It is the result of bad decision making by ownership. NEXT TIME.........please AVOID companies that offer unlimited PTO. It is a trap for employees. Your PTO can be rejected if management decides to and it can be held against you if times change. TAKE that 3 weeks PTO!

  21. Anonymous

    This is very helpful advice. Thank you. I will keep that in mind going forward.

  22. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  23. Anonymous

    For as long as I can remember you have always been able to request that a potential employer NOT contact your current employer; simply for job security reasons. Also, I don't know what State you are in but I was not aware that ANY States still allowed former employers to "bad mouth" employees; I thought that was a Federal law-they can verify dates of employment only. Any disparaging remarks can lead to a lawsuit.

  24. Anonymous

    In my state they can say anything negative as long as it's not verifiably false. So for example, they could say I was a, "poor performer," because that is really just their opinion. My state actually has immunity laws for these sorts of statements when made by employers.

  25. Dr. Patty Gross

    Most won't say anything because if it gets back to the employee, then they can sue, even if they were fired for cause. While true, the "cause" may have been some infraction that would not be relevant at another company (like dress code, for example). It isn't worth the aggravation, so most will only verify they were employed and the dates.

  26. Joyce Breitweiser Hall

    This happened to me. I had glowing reviews in a job I loved. Then I was given a PIP that was filled with lies and involuntarily transferred far from home. They wanted me to quit because they could reduce their payroll. They couldn’t fire me because I had a contract. I stayed until my mental health suffered and I had to quit to recover. Looking back I realize that I could not win and should have had them buy me out of my contract.

    I recommend that you get out of there as soon as possible. I hope this new job opportunity comes through for you.

  27. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  28. Anonymous

    I wouldn’t worry about your new employer. Most company policies can only give out dates of employment, rate of pay and job title.

    but I would put it into high gear and find something new.

    also for fufire reference. Unlimited time off doesn’t really mean unlimited time off. And that is true anywhere you go. It is one way of employers getting to squeeze more work out of someone and not pay for unused time off when they leave as most people know the rule of thumb about acceptable amounts of time off they can use. Good lesson to learn

    Also another good lesson to learn is- after every meeting. Alway follow up with thank you for the meeting and feedback - for my learning, I wanted to summarize our talk to ensure I understand- if I miss understood anything, please let me know.

    third lesson - it’s always who you know and how you’re connected to leadership never what you know. always seek to understand this so you understand key players in the game

    if you have health issues. Can you get on FMLA (paid or not paid) just to protect you while you look?

  29. Barbara

    All good points. Especially responding factually and respectfully to the PIP !!

  30. Anonymous

    Thank you for your reply, this is very helpful. I am not sure about the FMLA, I will look into that.

  31. Sara

    Be sure to look at the laws first. If this company is as shady as the one I worked for who did this same stuff to me, then they know the laws and how to skirt around them. They made most of their employees contractors so they remained small enough in terms of actual employees that they didn't have to follow ADA rules. That meant no accommodations, no FMLA, basically no employee protections at all. I wouldn't even ask them about FMLA, they'll only find some way to fire you earlier. Good luck with the new job prospect, I hope you get it so you can leave

  32. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    You wrote: "Most company policies can only give out dates of employment, rate of pay and job title."

    Please note that in many places, it is illegal to ask how much someone is making. I have never heard of that question being asked. That's none of anyone's business.

  33. Anonymous

    Ok - I see you already have 28 comments, so you’re probably already exhausted. That said, I’ve been in this exact situation (albeit the PIP at one, & the downturn in business at another.) I’m going to give it to you straight from lessons learned.

    1) Stop racking your brain about all of the things you could have done wrong. Doesn’t matter. When an employer wants to do a PIP, it’s a nice way of saying you’re about to be let go and they need documentation so they can turn down any request for unemployment.
    2) Lesson learned - working for a family business, or a business without accountability, they can basically make any decisions they like (including firing people) without answering to anyone but themselves.
    3) If you DO work for a family business, and business takes a dive, expect them to do a 180. Remember, this is their life and their $., so a lot can be at stake.
    4) If business is not booming, they look for the most costly item to get rid of - like an employee w/ a salary. Full stop.
    5) First, if you’re ever interviewing while still working, it is highly unlikely they would even ask for a reference. You’re still working there! You wouldn’t have to even say it - they already know you don’t want to tip your employer off that you’re interviewing elsewhere.
    6) It’s not legal for any former employer to bad mouth you. They can confirm when you worked there, and in some cases they can be asked if that employer would hire you again. They can only say “yes” or “no”.
    The net-net is a PIP is the kiss of death. Keep your head down and collecting the paycheck until you get that other job. And as hard as it is - stop letting all of those potential reasons for the PIP run a marathon in your head. It’s not you, it’s them!

  34. Anonymous

    Thank you so much. I really didn't want this job and was relieved when they didn't call me back for 6 weeks. But my daughter was 2 months old when I got laid off and I feel desperate. I was also unable to collect all my unemployment the last time over an error on the company's part, and the lawyer I consulted would have taken more in fees than I was owed. I had a good nest egg of savings and now it's totally gone since our water heater just went out. I really hope I get this job. Should I reisgn or let myself be fired?

  35. Ayian

    If you resign, you will not qualify for unemployment. If they fire you after a PIP and you attempted to comply with it, you should still qualify for unemployment. I did with a company that provided zero training, kept changing their expectations, and then was frustrated that 3 months in, I didn't perform to their specifications (which kept changing).

  36. Anonymous

    "Lesson learned - working for a family business, or a business without accountability, they can basically make any decisions they like (including firing people) without answering to anyone but themselves."

    Amen to all of this! I learned this the hard way!

  37. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  38. Anonymous

    You already have a lot of comments but I will also leave this for anyone reading: my former employer used to do this where when leadership was in trouble for not meeting their goals or called out for poor leadership, they blamed the people below them and randomly laid them off or put them on PIPs. It was a way to avoid what they were doing wrong and lay down the hammer too hard on people with no warning to appear like a strong leader. Even if employees are having performance or reliability issues, if it was told by leadership that it was okay, that’s on them to communicate policies changing moving forward and not punish employees for standards that didn’t exist prior. When you said leadership suddenly started saying things about accountability, I think they themselves got negative feedback and took it out on you.

    as others said, you can simply tell your potential new place of employment that the search is confidential. Any decent employer understands that and knows that in 99% of job searches you’re looking behind your employers back. They’ll verify you actually worked there via a background check and use references approved by you

  39. Anonymous

    Thank you for your reply. I am seriously considering resigning because I am afraid this would qualify as being fired "with cause." I don't want the damage to my professional reputation. I don't know what to say if I do that and then don't get this job.

  40. Anonymous

    I learned this the hard way. Never work for a family company. You will regret it!

  41. Anonymous

    I would tend to agree. Some "family-style" companies can be as dysfunctional as "real" families, with favoritism, temper tantrums, etc.

  42. Anonymous

    It's pretty uncommon for an employer to bash you to a perspective company. They will likely limit what they say to protect themselves.

  43. Anonymous

    Not true.

  44. Anonymous

    This is a small family company though, and one that's obviously had a strongly negative shift in dynamics. People who do this don't have the foresight to think about "protecting themselves".

  45. Anonymous

    I'm hoping they don't go the vindictive route.

    And just to let you know, regardless of your state, no former employer can say anything that is defamatory or untrue. It's simply grounds for a lawsuit.

    I would not drive yourself crazy over what might happen. Further if you suspect they are providing false information about you or your work, find a labor attorney to write a cease and desist letter.

  46. Anonymous

    This is true, but there's also a burden of proof. Unfortunately the law really isn't on the side of employees here.

  47. Shelly Hogans

    You are important! You didn’t change, they did. You will find a job that appreciates your skills and talents and it isn’t required that you allow the current employer to be contacted for reference. Even if contacted even small companies are aware to “keep the reference short” - name, position, hire dates. There is too much liability associated with providing a negative reference.

    also, consider if there is another person within the company who can provide a positive reference. If not, indicate on your application that the potential employer “not contact” the current employer after all they have not yet extended you an offer so you still work there! No need to signal you’re leaving before you actually give your 2 weeks notice.

    Leave that employer with their slackers and negative environment… full implosion. Get your health together and stop stressing. They are NOT the only gig in town.

  48. Anonymous

    You have no idea how much this comment meant to me. Just to be told I am important really touched me. It certainly doesn't feel that way right now.

  49. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  50. Anonymous

    Legally they can only verify dates

    of employment. They cannot slag you off unless they are open to litigation.

  51. Elizabeth

    From the sounds of it your employer sucks. Also your coworkers were using you as the fall guy. Sorry about that. Whenever employers change their mind you gotta listen to them. Even if things change drastically. If they say there's low accountability on your part you gotta show them how your talking accountability. That's how it goes. I know hindsight is always 20/20. Take it from me, I've been there. I'm damn near am expert at getting fired. Probably the only good thing from it is being about to offer advice. As far as your future employer goes, when they call your former employer, the former employer will only confirm dates of employment from you. They won't got into details because they don't want to incriminate themselves. You've got nothing to worry about. I hope that helps. Best of luck to you. You'll do great ? ?

  52. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  53. EmpoweredGirl497476

    I am sorry this is happening to you. As to how to address this to companies in which you are interviewing, if asked, I would simply say that you are looking for a new role because your current one is not a good fit as things changed for the worse with upper management. And if you need to, share that since you are presently working, you would prefer that they do not contact your current employer. I am a recruiter and I hear that a lot from folks that I am speaking with regarding new roles. Doesn't have to be verbatim what I said, but I would say something of that nature, if asked. If you do not get the job, it wasn't meant to be, so keep on looking, the right job will come along.

  54. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  55. Anonymous

    I would very simply say that you are currently employed and would rather they don't contact your employer for fear of retalliation. If asked why you are leaving the job, be truthful in saying it isn't a good fit for you and isn't providing the growth you hoped it would.

  56. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    I advise my clients to say something like, "Over time, there was a bit of a culture shift and the employer is no longer a values match. "

  57. Karen

    You don't have to list them as a reference. If they aren't a reference, all their HR can really say is yes they started working here at X date in Role A. You tell interviewers that it started out great but the culture and work environment shifted and now it is not a good fit for you anymore.

  58. Anonymous

    I would hope all employers know not to contact a candidate’s current company.

  59. Anonymous

    It's perfectly okay to tell them not to contact your current employer. Sorry you are going through this.

  60. Anonymous

    I've been scapegoated at work before too, and it royally sucks.

  61. Anonymous

    At times, I use ChatGPT in these instances in order to help me think of what to do when I am really stuck.

    I had something very similar happen. Even HR commented on how the PIP is a bit of a joke. I thankfully had evidence to prove that it was outright BS.

    However, I stood my ground, and I kept my cool. In doing so, when things did end, I asked for a severance, a basic referral doc that said 'yes, she worked here with this title, from this date to this date'. It was a life saver to get that and be able to provide that to past employers if they asked.

    But again, input the scenario into ChatGPT and ask for how to handle this - strategy, what to do, not to do, where you might be able to make yourself safer, how to pose this to the new employer etc.

    I do this often after I lost my mentor or other confidantes are busy and I need a wall to bounce ideas off of. It is helpful if you give it full and honest context. It won't replace an attorney, but it's another avenue to take.

  62. Anonymous

    I got the job!

  63. Anonymous

    A potential employer isn't going to give you the opportunity to show "proof" that you were not in the wrong -- they'll simply move in to the next candidate bc they don't want a new hire that brings drama with them. Because of this you need to find a way to make amends with your current employer. Begin by accepting responsibility for any errors you may have made. Your goal should be to repair the damaged relationship and get a positive reference upon your departure.

  64. Anonymous

    This is not good advice. I would suggest you just act professionally, look for a different job, and leave peacefully. Don't kiss up to them and don't try to save the job because at the end of the day you can't control other people's thoughts, opinions, or actions. Most people go through something like this in their career at least once and the solution is not to grovel. If you didn't do the things they are accusing you of, then the PIP is just an excuse to let you go and say it was performance, and there is not a lot you can do to change their perceptions. Another job will come. Don't give up hope, and don't get bogged down on negative feedback like this comment.

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