Please feel free to give me feedback here - but are people getting a lot more whiney?

57 Comments

1. E CDecember 16,2022 at 2:55PM UTC

   Not having been in the room, of course, I can't be sure, but here's my first thought. This exchange sounds pretty one-way. In the end, if you are the supervisor, you are the one who gives direction, but it's entirely possible to engage the employee at the same time. Did you ask questions about challenges, barriers, or alternate solutions? Did you make a plan or give a mandate? Any of those can go a long way in these situations.

2. AnonymousDecember 16,2022 at 4:55PM UTC

   Thank you all for the feedback. I'm really looking at this from both sides. I've opened up to both employees and there's some serious issues going on that I've asked them with all honestly - please tell me what I can do to support you here. What am I missing? My approach is not abrasive, and I consider myself be a positive person. I will take your suggestions into account. And yes, we go over barriers, challenges, to which she always replies she "has no challenges, and she is fine and doesn't need any support" - so I'm left with ? Anywho. Thanks again for the feedback!

3. AnonymousDecember 16,2022 at 8:01PM UTC

   I've had the same experience with some employees. And they don't expect consequences at any point. They are completely astonished when we have to start disciplinary proceedings - say it "came out of nowhere" when we've had multiple, detailed conversations about what wasn't working. I'm with you - absolutely don't understand. Maybe have a peer or higher-up who knows your work and whose approach you admire give you some feedback just to be sure you're coming across as you intend. But after that, all you can do is keep up the documentation until you can move out people who refuse to improve.

4. Rebecca AliDecember 16,2022 at 3:34PM UTC

   E C makes a good point below. I would also recommend taking a more "coach" oriented approach which is less directive and more collaborative. "I've noticed that a few things are falling through the cracks. What's holding you back from getting X done?" "What do you think you could do to ensure this is completed?" and finally from a supervisory perspective and less from a coaching perspective "how can I help?" If I were in your situation, I would recap the conversation with an email and reiterate that you are there to offer tools, support, etc. This serves two purposes - documentation to clarify expectation and to show you were listening and they were heard.

5. AnonymousDecember 16,2022 at 3:36PM UTC

   I think there is some kind of collective burnout, weird funk thing going on. Everyone seems bizzare to me. Not sure what is going on with people.

6. Daniela PardoDecember 18,2022 at 3:17PM UTC

   +++ a lot of cultural change, intensified by the pandemic

7. AnonymousDecember 16,2022 at 4:22PM UTC

   No it's not you. I've noticed no one ever wants honest feedback ever. They want a pat on the head and emotional positive attitude. They don't want to know about issues abd ways to improve. People really feel that you should only offer platitudes.

   It's the everyone gets a trophy syndrome.

8. AnonymousDecember 16,2022 at 4:28PM UTC

   Job culture IS changing. As a manager at my last job, I couldn't suggest anything different or even say "no" to a request without being reported as mean and unprofessional. This is especially true among the younger group in their 20s, but I have also seen it in some older folks. I would always explain why the request needed to be changed or could not be done (all in business terms), but they felt I had no right to decline their request.

9. Anita GetzDecember 16,2022 at 7:29PM UTC

   It is the changing culture. People have become snowflakes, in other words soft, everything upsets everyone.

10. AnonymousDecember 17,2022 at 12:37PM UTC

    The culture is clearly changing. I think there’s a lot of employees who feel a sense of entitlement and given unemployment is so low now and talent hard to find. they think they can complain and call out their managers. work ethics have changed as well. People do only what is expected and nothing more. They have no interest in helping anyone or asking for more to do in most cases, it’s one thing to go to HR and complain because they will determine whether it’s legitimate or not in a lot of cases but you’re in a tough spot and it’s a “he said she said “ because there’s no recording of the incident which may not be a bad idea in the future make sure your phone is on. Is this what we reduced our self to defend our jobs retired a bedlam.!??

11. Tabbi KinionDecember 17,2022 at 2:54PM UTC

    Yes! This! I have an employee - who had two of her employees quit because of bad management in the past few months (in spite of us doing our best to intervene, coach her, and set better expectations) - go to our chief of staff earlier this week saying that her performance improvement plan is out of left field and is unfair. What? We did a 360 review with her team 6 months ago and they were brutal about her management - and she didn't change anything afterward. We got her resignation letter this morning - phew.

12. Jenea FrederickDecember 17,2022 at 3:54PM UTC

    Without knowing the context of what you asking them to improve in , I would suggest presenting facts and figures and leaving the communication open . People want to feel heard and seen not just told what to do .

    Example : Hey ( name ) we are doing a performance review how do you think you doing in the company ,

    well in this area ( insert your concerns ) I notice you only deliver 5 calls instead of 10 like requested , where are you struggling ?

    I think it is more about letting then say what is wrong , then you . So ask more questions and present facts . But that could be just me

13. AnonymousDecember 17,2022 at 7:30PM UTC

    You are making a lot of assumptions about many folk's ability to engage in self-reflection. Personal experience with oblivious employees makes it clear this is far from a universal trait.

14. AnonymousDecember 17,2022 at 5:37PM UTC

    Without a doubt. Since mental health has been front and center, everyone seems to cry abuse at anything that remotely resembles criticism.

15. AnonymousDecember 17,2022 at 6:12PM UTC

    Look at how many posts are made here about people saying they're being bullied, criticized, etc, by their supervisor or colleagues. I often wonder how many of these incidents are in fact constructive criticism about how the poster can improve their job performance and they just don't want to hear it.

16. Laura Ann KleinDecember 18,2022 at 4:22PM UTC

    Amen

17. Liz MilneDecember 18,2022 at 2:24AM UTC

    Yes, people are expecting more for less input and moaning about it when they don't get it... Bloody depressing :(

    If this is the first time you've had problems and you've given feedback before without issues, then you're probably okay. But if it was your first time, it's possible you came across a bit too strong: there are ways of inoffensively telling people to try harder - and ways of giving praise that makes the person feel small!

    Speak to your supervisor, see if they said what it was, exactly, that they objected to, and if feasible, meet with your employees and ask how you could have told them to improve themselves without them taking offence?

18. TomBooleyDecember 18,2022 at 1:20PM UTC

    Avoid using the words “hey” and “you” for starters….

19. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 1:23PM UTC

    I agree with the person who noted that there is a lot of employee entitlement taking place. The culture is definitely changing. There's a ton of narcissistic behavior. There is ultra-progressivism to the point of entitlement. And by the former, I mean this ever-growing attitude that employers should just feel happy that they have employees rather than employees feel lucky they have jobs. As a result, they get away with so much crap. There's even a lot of customer service reps claiming that they're being bullied and hated on by customers when, instead, a lot of it is just the "idea" of that happening because those reps don't want to do the work unless they're constantly receiving praise for it.

    ...

    I deal with a customer service person outside of my job who whines or becomes dramatic about everything. They work hard at making it look like they're going above and beyond even though what they do is what I was always trained to believe is basic customer service. They then keep asking for a 5-star review online for their behavior and all I can think is "Back in the day, your behavior and actions would get you fired." Today? I think some of it is because employers increasingly allow this crap out of fear of backlash or lawsuits. There's also just this ultra progressive attitude (and, please note, I'm all for progressivism, but I'm talking about the extreme variety), that if someone points out a flaw or makes a worker work a little for the money they're making then they're "bullying" them. There's also this obsession with the idea that anyone who complains to management or makes a complaint is just a "Karen," which is a label that really makes it hard to complain about bad customer service, workers, etc.

    Note: I had spaces between paragraphs, but the Edit feature removed them and now they won't come back.

20. Rebecca Lee VDecember 18,2022 at 1:26PM UTC

    I know I've become more winey ;)

21. Daniela PardoDecember 18,2022 at 3:14PM UTC

    Same! Priorities have changed a lot, and I don't tolerate the same things that I did before

22. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 1:34PM UTC

    Document the conversation and if there's been or have not been any improvements in the areas, you pointed out. If there's been no improvement, then terminate them.

    Keeping on employees who don't want to improve is on you and isn't a good look "on you" to the rest of your staff and the company.

    Employees meeting expectations shouldn't be negotiable. Send a clear message that if an employee isn't meeting expectations, they'll not be an employee at your company.

23. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 4:21PM UTC

    This is exactly what I wanted to say. You are their supervisor and it is your job to deliver feedback. The two who complained over your head seem toxic and should be held accountable for their inability to accept and change behaviors that our counter to your business unit. Get help from your manager/director and manage that nonsense out the door.

24. AnonymousDecember 21,2022 at 8:58AM UTC

    Replace all thinking people with robots! So much simpler than developing empathy, humanity and respect. People and people skills are overrated! ?

25. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 1:53PM UTC

    Yes. We are now dealing with the group who was told growing up they were special in all ways. There were no consequences for their bad behavior and a parent smoothed the way for them in all things. They see the injustices that happen at work, because lets face it, there is always something that isn’t “fair” or right and down right discriminatory. However, criticism is now flipped to “so and so doesn’t like me/is being mean/unfair/fill in the word of the week”. And they are so accustomed to someone fixing the problem - other than themself.

    All you ca do is document the issues, your action and then folllow-up. Instead of verbally discussing anything with them, I would send an email. IF we have a conversation I would follow it up with an email (and make it a “read receipt” email so that you have a clear paper trail. I’d be tempted at our 30 day meeting or whenever it was set, to ask them why they felt the need to complain. I would also be tempted in the future when meeting with these people to have a third party in the room. HR does this often.

26. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 9:12PM UTC

    It would benefit you to avoid lumping people into groups. It creates that discriminatory behavior you mentioned, whether you realize it or not.

27. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 1:54PM UTC

    As a new social worker who just graduated in May as an older woman, the generations and the culture have changed. The younger generation does not believe or trust older adults at all. They blatantly question everything and point out what they consider ridiculous, old, redundant, etc. They don't want to work their lives away like their parents to make a few shareholders and owners rich, while they are burdened with predatory student loans, unaffordable housing, inflation, etc. They would rather let the culture fail than work to prop it up when they will end up worse than their parents (financially, climate change, global conflict) and since they don't see any collective benefit in following the older generations encouraging them to run over a cliff and sacrifice themselves for little actual return, they are challenging the whole way of life in America and why should they do more? It is a very different way of protesting than the 60s, it's all done online away from adults who are clueless, and the kids are far more savvy and up on the hypocrisy of the system than older adults who drank the societal kool aid of working harder and longer to get ahead - which has never worked in our rigged economy. The kids are bringing a cultural shift that will be more effective than the 60s, but many of us will be retired and shocked when the kids want nothing to do with us, and we end up alone and neglected in an understaffed, under equipped nursing home because "profits, baby!" I see it every day at the hospital I work at - "Dad/Mom was always working, tired, and didn't care about me, I don't care where you put them, I'm "no contact", or have no money or time myself to do anything for them." The older generations got theirs, but failed the younger. And they know it. I know it by being with them in university and getting their side.

28. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 2:26PM UTC

    First I want to say that the “younger-generation” bashing is getting tired and old (perhaps like you).

    I have had a boss that sounds just like this and flavored all of her “feedback” i her mind to sound like this but was aggressive and rude with a smattering of insulting. However when she was given feedback on her method of feedback she whined herself how wonderful she was and twisted it back to sound just like this person sounds here.

    let’s get off the “those kids are spoiled and want the world” narrative to “perhaps managerial styles must change to be more effective in a world that hasn’t been easy for us”.

    I think perhaps you need a good hard look at yourself before passing judgement based on age (which is discrimination btw).

    I agree with what you’re saying and I only pray that the younger workforce can change the way things have always been done because it’s just not working

29. E CDecember 18,2022 at 4:00PM UTC

    This thread is definitely taking a turn toward bashing younger workers. (And no, I'm not one of them.) How long before someone pulls out the, "Nobody wants to work anymore" trope?

30. Lisa MarieDecember 18,2022 at 8:01PM UTC

    I disagree that the post took a turn to bashing younger workers.

    Prior to the person who took offense to the Anonymous Social Worker post, there wasn't (and still isn't) any posts bashing a younger demographic.

    Stating (almost word for word) the things younger workers want/demand, and stating one's experience in a mukti-generational workplace *is not* bashing.

    THIS. This is the problem... clearly different levels of UNDERSTANDING.

31. Lisa MarieDecember 18,2022 at 4:11PM UTC

    Who bashed the "younger generation" in a response above?

    If your response was directed to the Anonymous Social Worker, I don't believe you Anonymous understood what the response clearly outlined... then you agreed with what the Anonymous Social Worker posted?

    Something' amiss here.

32. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 9:18PM UTC

    Some things are working, some things are not. What does work is challenging boss/teacher in a respectful way asking for clarification. Why are they asking that this thing be done this way? How about if we did it like this instead? Often there is a good reason why something is done a certain way, sometimes it is an old habit and can certainly be changed. Us old people do get into ruts sometimes. But you always put the air in the tire after you mount it on the rim.

    And sometimes even if you don’t agree with the way you are told to do something, you just suck it up and do it anyway.

33. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 2:23PM UTC

    My first thought was how was the feedback delivered to the two employees? I have seen a strong correlation between the rise in perceived “whiny” behavior and poorly trained managers. As someone who sees the conclusion of her career on the horizon, I find the youngest generation in the work force to be capable and enthusiastic. What they lack are mentors/coaches willing to put in the work. They suffer the consequence while the poor managers, who likely also suffered from lack of mentors and coaching, are baffled by the dissatisfaction and churn in staff.

    Rather that seeing the two as whiny, did you extend the same curtesy to them you expect from them? Did you listen to the feedback shared through your supervisor? What did your supervisor say? Was there something in the message that you could learn from or take to heart?

    Of course I don’t know all the details and perhaps the two are just whiners, but I often find managers who jump to conclusions like this lack self awareness to be effective in their coaching. Perhaps some introspection is in order.

    But to answer your question: no, I don’t think employees are whinier these days. They are more assertive and take less crap. That’s a good thing. Just because some of us had to experience terrible situations when we’re coming up in our careers doesn’t mean we should put that on the next generation. If we have the mentality that we went through so they should to, we’re not managing. We’re hazing.

34. E CDecember 18,2022 at 3:48PM UTC

    I love everything you just said. You're right that younger workers are taking less crap, and that's a great thing. I'm excited to see how the Z's and those who come after them are going to change the workplace. They want to work places that work for them, too.

35. Coach SrideviDecember 18,2022 at 2:35PM UTC

    From my experience, I have seen that an employee whether a whiny or not will take a feedback very positively depending on two things-

    A) the way it was delivered. Tone, language, prior permission.

    B) To the point with clarity and with visible good intention.

    In my 27 years of corporate life, I have seen that this always work and I have handled with ease very difficult people reporting to me.

    I currently put all these skills in my coaching career.

36. Focused721350December 18,2022 at 4:19PM UTC

    Good Morning,

    I so agree! I grew up in the 60's. I'm a daddy's Girl and still am. But! He was very hard on me and I appreciate him for that. Because I'm a tough old bird! Some people just can't handle being criticized or corrected. Maybe! Because they were either babied to much or cuddled a lot. Who knows! I rather get positive feed back on how to do something better, Than Whine like a cry baby! In my life I've heard many things. Do I like it! No! But! I try and understand to do better. I'm straight up woman an people don't like it! Oh well! Like I told my friend last night in a conversation. If you want to hang with the Big dogs! Deal with it! Otherwise! Go back on the porch with the pups!

    Take Care and God Bless, Ms. T ;)

37. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 5:18PM UTC

    It’s pretty amusing that a post accusing others of whining is whining to strangers.

    I tend to believe that if I am getting multiple people offering the same type of feedback, it’s me that is the problem.

38. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 4:31PM UTC

    Agreed. You took the words right out of my mouth.

    I am an older millennial who has been micro-managed by women supervisors and it can be extremely mentally exhausting to be on the receiving end. Perhaps, this is not the first time that the manager has suggested to help and never followed through with "support". Often times, people paint themselves as holier online and in reality, the story is something else completely.

39. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 5:56PM UTC

    No not you very helpful I mean you are the boss.
    I hope you don’t get micro managed and can actually lead your team. I appreciate someone who is willing to give constructive criticism and not talk down to me. You are doing your job. Keep your head up and good luck.

40. AnonymousDecember 21,2022 at 8:52AM UTC

    Sounds like the poster is a micromanager to me.

41. DanaDecember 18,2022 at 8:57PM UTC

    Yes, people are definitely more 'whiney'. In fact, just the other day I read that Harry was whining that Charles yelled at him. ):

42. CStiggerDecember 19,2022 at 4:27PM UTC

    Yelling in a professional setting / office / zoom call is unprofessional. "Whiney" is subjective to each person.

43. AnonymousDecember 18,2022 at 9:06PM UTC

    People are DEFINITELY more whiney. I chalk it up to the fact that they all grew up getting trophies simply for showing up. So now they expect the same thing at work. Even well worded constructive criticism makes them "run to daddy" for help.

44. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 7:15PM UTC

    That is a worn-out trope. Who was giving out the trophies?

45. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 8:57PM UTC

    Haha for real. There are some people I know who talk like that but expect to be given certain privileges and better pay for seniority, even though they don't contribute new ideas or think beyond the length of their own desk. That's a participation trophy if I've ever seen one.

46. Crystal HowellDecember 18,2022 at 10:45PM UTC

    If your manager didn't say, "well she is correct, you need some training and set up a time with her or another designated Sr. employee". Your manager should have done that, if not then they need to be retrained, too!

    I wouldn't use "Hey" in an office memo or setting, offer training not the solution for them, no one learns that way.

    Both of them are lazy and allowed to be, now the New year, the New You, Boss Lady let them know who is the Boss!

47. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 12:38PM UTC

    People are burned out right now!
    This time of year is very stressful as we are all trying to do the holidays under the threat of a recession, rising interest rates, and rising cost of living. It’s like Christmas in the ‘80s all over again. Think back to those holiday movies. They don’t want to hear about how they can improve right now. Save that for January. All they want to hear right now is whether they are getting a raise/bonus or if their bonus will turn up as a holiday ham! I personally used vacation time the week before Christmas, because I just can’t deal with the office anymore this year!

48. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 5:53PM UTC

    Yes, it's a stressful time of year at the end of a stressful year at the end of a stressful period, but you still need to do what you need to do to be considered at least an adequate performer at work. If that means you get feedback that you need to do something better, it's advisable that you follow it. January will look really terrible if you're suddenly unemployed because you were more focused on whether you were going to get a bonus or a raise than if you actually deserve either one.

49. AnonymousDecember 21,2022 at 8:51AM UTC

    Spoken like a true capitalist and company woman! I find most managers that lack emotional intelligence, empathy and people skills shouldn't be in charge of human beings.

50. Ellyn Specker CharapDecember 19,2022 at 2:09PM UTC

    Happened to me constantly when I first hired Millenials - this is a definite change. When I talked to the company president about it, I told him that once upon a time, they called employees who tried to get their supervisors by a special name - "a fired employee."

51. AnonymousDecember 19,2022 at 7:04PM UTC

    Eeek, wow. What an HR nightmare! That's called retaliation and it's actually illegal. For good reason too. All people, even supervisors, make mistakes and we should be allowed to bring it to someone's attention.

52. misskelleypDecember 19,2022 at 9:19PM UTC

    that's not retaliation - retaliation is when an employee suffers adverse employment actions due to a PROTECTED action that they took (reporting the employer for something illegal, complaining about sexual or other harassment, taking a protected leave). Whining about your boss to their boss is NOT protected, and they certainly could be terminated for that, although I might not necessarily take that action myself.

53. AnonymousDecember 20,2022 at 3:26PM UTC

    "whining" is a bit subjective.. Sure if it's truly unfounded, you're right. But if an employee goes to their boss's boss to make a good faith complaint about what they believe is prejudice or a hostile environment, even if an investigation determines there's no action to take on the complaint, the employee is protected from retaliation.

54. EMILY KIKUE FRANKDecember 19,2022 at 4:01PM UTC

    We've been dealing with a vastly changed world since the advent of Covid and people are exhausted. Add the tenuous state of the world, the current "tripledemic," and the upcoming holidays, and treat everyone gently. I loathe the generational blame-game-- work culture always changes and always will. If we're wise, we adapt to the times, and right now, that includes being just that little bit kinder.

55. Kimberley Ferretti HammettDecember 19,2022 at 6:59PM UTC

    Often when one person expresses their want for change to another it can be heard as whining, especially if they aren't very good at expressing it. And especially when they aren't clear on the change they want so they direct it at the closest point of contention. It doesn't necessarily mean that they, as a person, or a generation (speaking to several commenters on here for that one), are entirely whiny and invalid.

    In your particular example, it sounds like you've said the right things. Your past history with these people and your tone certainly could have been in play so I can't say for sure it had nothing to do with you but I can definitely tell you're trying to be a real leader to these employees. I would also examine what they complained about. Is it possible it was something that always bothered them and they maybe didn't want to bring it up before but felt they should now on the record to be heard or even protect themselves if they think you're trying to performance them out? I guess to summarize, I'm fairly confident you didn't do anything wrong here, but that also doesn't automatically mean they are whiney babies.

    To address the many comments reducing an entire generation to one negative attribute... *sigh*... that's quite lazy. Objectively, every single generation that I can think of has wanted one thing.. change. It's natural. It's called progress. Evolution even. Our parents and grandparents and those before worked hard to gain their own form of progress and now we have the privilege of living in a world where many of us (not all) can work not just to survive, but hopefully live full, realized lives. So naturally there is a push for higher standards in more supportive and understanding working environments. One of the big issues today is that while it's great there's so much information out there, way too often it is without context or it's gone through so many levels of telephone it's become misinformation, hence the overuse of words like toxic and gaslighting. Those things 1000% happen and I am so happy for future employees that it gets addressed, but there are also some people who take that and call everyone they don't get along with "toxic". But just like not everyone you don't like isn't toxic.. not everyone who expresses a negative opinion on something is "whiny".

56. AnonymousDecember 21,2022 at 8:43AM UTC

    It's you. I have a young, inexperienced supervisor that is absolutely exhausting with nitpicking feedback and hollow expressions of 'let me know how I can support you' with no intention of truly helping. She's a micromanager that has zero people skills. Work on your delivery and don't offer support if it is not genuine. People can sense if you're truly being helpful and constructive. Task managing and treating people as human beings with value are very different things

57. Dcre1977December 22,2022 at 2:23PM UTC

    My experience is Baby boomers have always been pretty whiny, actuallly.

    It does not actually matter whether it is the culture changing, you clearly were not effective in your approach with these employees. Self reflection is necessary to determine how you can better reach them, if your first response is to go on about the culture change you are not self reflecting.

    Hopefully your supervisor gave you some better direction on how to handle the situation rather than just complain about the kids today.

    If she did not, find someone who has mentored strong leaders rather than bosses and see if you can learn something.