The current, crazy, state of hiring, and why it's gotten like this

Anonymous

January 15,2023 at 1:14AM UTC

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The current, crazy, state of hiring, and why it's gotten like this

I truly want to hear your thoughts on the dysfunctional state of hiring these days, and perhaps why it's gotten like this. For the past 6 months I've interviewed with 3 major institutions for high-level positions in my field (fundraising) as I bring 20 years experience. At the first organization, I got to the final, CEO interview, and thought I had it based on feedback. Then I was told they had a hiring freeze. I later learned this was a lie and that they let the person go who brought me in to interview. Then they reposted the position, but now I'm not being considered (never got any communication from them). The second organization involved a lengthy, 3 month process via a recruiter, with multiple Zoom calls and finally a full-day, in-person interview with 18 people. After all this, it was nearly a month without hearing anything that I emailed the recruiter, practically begging for the job when she finally picked up the phone to tell me I wasn't moving forward, for inexplicable reasons. Another recruiter suggested I start at an entry-level position there, despite having 20 years experience. But wait - there's more! The third organization began with a fantastic Zoom interview with a woman who worked on the team I'd be joining. She was so excited to set up a 2nd interview for me with her boss (whom I'd met previously) that she scheduled something that week. However, that particular day was packed with meetings so I couldn't get away for an in-person interview. Despite me trying to accommodate schedules, she said no worries and that they were moving all interviews to January, after the holidays. Then the last week of December, I get a call from their HR person saying they hired someone else. She was surprised to hear that I was told about the interviews being moved to January. Needless to say, I was quite incensed. All 3 of these have been in the last 6 months. I've never experienced such bait & switch, ghosting, stringing along, lying, etc. in the hiring process. It's a wonder anyone is truly getting hired these days. What are your thoughts on why this is happening and how it got this bad?

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AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 6:41AM UTC
First, I am sorry you are experiencing these horrendous, wild circus shows of interview experiences.
Fortunately, you are NOT alone in experiencing this. I have definitely and continue to have my unfortunate share of bad interview experiences. The level of professionalism in recruiting is starting to be a thing of the past.
My theory behind why this is happening is due to there is a little update to the labor laws in place to help ensure that prospective and current employees are treated with a consistent level of human decency. As such, employers are able to treat us however they want with little to any accountability to bind them to. That is, unless, the employee seeking accountability comes from wealth.
As someone in the tech field, I've noticed since the Atrotcious George Floyd incident that after the pledges from companies talking about their efforts to increase their diversity and inclusion within their companies. They had not made any attempts to follow through on their word....if anything...they've regressed. There has been a continual regression in the number of BIPOCs and LGBTQIA being hired. If companies do hire from those groups, they are OUTSOURCED to keep the wages low but their diversity number high. Discragecful and I feel that is due to them being able to avoid any potential EEOC lawsuits. As that George Floyd incident had also ignited a slurry of people from those two groups I shared feeling empowered ( as they should! ) to speak up and out about the harm they receive in the workplace and employers were NOT happy about it!
Outside of racial matters and on a general view. I feel companies are now trying to keep their employee circles "tight" and limited to people that strongly reflect their views and individual culture. Hiring for "culture add" pfft, yeah right.
Companies dont need to hire anymore people than they currently have, externally at least. As most times they employ from withing e.g. a person looking to pivot from one role to another but they put the position that they are about to give to an internal candidate on external job boards for perception sake. As well as another that Im not too privy too and curse myself for not being closer with recruiters to find out the exact reason why. But I know it has to do with metrics and some rule they have to follow as a company. The reason I know that is because I was an internal candidate before and my hiring manager let that part slip. Oopsie on her because I am definitely one to help people in the same position as me out under the notion that, " there's enough food at the table for everyone to eat to make room!" Management doesn't like that though...heh.
Another theory I have which is supported with recent video fromWall Street Journal titled, A White-Collar Recession? Why Layoffs Are Hitting Professional Workers " Is that due there being a current deficit in manual jobs since the start of the pandemic and an increase of people working, what many consider, office jobs. the difficulty in being hired could be done to push people into working manual labor jobs again....despite none of the conditions, many left them for changing.
If the ongoing labor strikes and continued quiet withdrawal, as in, restrictions, of provided unemployment funds awarded to those entitled to it, and dwindling labor rights. Not enough to give us a wake-up call about what the issue is, or act as a prelude for what's to come then.....I guess we all will be sitting here until the answer slaps all of us people who are all diligently trying to find or keep a job.
My answer was ranty but I hope I was able to provide some insight to provoke more healthy dialogue within this thread and community. Much love and hope you get the job so you can continue being safe.XO
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 3:35PM UTC
I think its more simple - employers don't want to pay. Like I live in NYS and am stuck at a grocery store until I get a better job and the way they handled the min wage bump was to make 80% of staff scheduled for 30 hrs and part-time. And they now pay min wage. This is not helpful when everyone jacked rent up by 200/mo on average last year. My apt when up 150, I'm actually looking to move to a nearby city and move in with someone. I haven't had a roommate since college!
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 10:15PM UTC
Original poster of comment here - good point! As I have actually had to MOVE states just to find a ln affordable place to live that would allow me to retain my independence. As in, not have to live with another person because lorde knows I do not do well with roommates.?
I truly don't know what's going on with the economy that they would pull a rent inflation like this and I'm horrified at how this rent inflation highlighted how there are currently not many laws in place to regulate this either. There's so much change that needs to be done and action us people need to take to rectify this, that it all feels so overwhelming.
I hope you are able to transition into another place to live that allows you same or better quality in living. As there is nothing more peaceful than having a safe, clean place to rest your head.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistJanuary 16,2023 at 3:18AM UTC
What you're talking about here with rent increases is basic capitalism. Landlords raise the rent because they can.
AnonymousJanuary 16,2023 at 9:10PM UTC
Original poster of comment here - Correct! I feel confident that anyone who grew up or has transitioned to living in the US would know this truth.
What was being highlighted is that employers do not want to give employees their deserved wages during hiring. The effect of this being that the current wages that employers ARE willing to provide, do not keep up with inflation by an abnormally large margin. Causing severe financial instability in prospective and current employees' lives as shared in both my and the previous commentators lived experiences.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistJanuary 16,2023 at 3:20AM UTC
Tech companies are laying off after a hiring spree during the pandemic.
AnonymousJanuary 16,2023 at 9:01PM UTC
Original poster of comment here -Yes, and my original post highlighted this and shared additional reasons behind this. To believe that the reason behind this is due to one reason would be doing ourselves a disservice of looking at the bigger picture.
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 6:42AM UTC
because they can. pre-internet ppl wouldnt be sharing that info. I've been baited too on interviews.
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 1:48PM UTC
I’m an executive search recruiter/headhunter and I work with internal HR teams daily. The hiring process with most large companies is incredibly frustrating. It’s also very complicated, especially at the executive level. I’m not giving companies a pass for how they’ve essentially removed the “human factor” from the equation, the breakdown always ties back to inadequate training on hiring best practices and employment law, essentially what I refer to “Hiring 101”. I provide this feedback to my clients constantly, but leadership doesn’t prioritize this type of fundamental training until a company ends up in an EEOC lawsuit, unfortunately.
Don’t let these experiences cause you to become jaded. Instead, use them as fuel to your fire! Continue to use LinkedIn to network with top tier headhunters within your industry who have stellar reputations. They’ll advocate for you and will always keep you posted on the process as best as they can.
I wish you all my best. Don’t give up.
Mary LetiziJanuary 15,2023 at 6:08PM UTC
I agree Linkedin has a good reputation, but some recruiters that go through this site are ghosting and showing general lack of communication. I think this is starting to devalue Linkedin's reputation.
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 2:04PM UTC
I was in recruiting for over 30 years.Having worked internally with hiring managers and partnerships with HR as a talent acquisition recruiter, we were separate. The internal recruiters are continually ghosted by the hiring managers! having worked internally with hiring managers and partnership with HR as talent acquisition was separate., managers have their own agendas, no one enforces our process. Managers use their own referrals that are given directly to them, agencies call them directly, employees come forward that want to be promoted or transferred and all of this is not communicated to the recruiting staff, meanwhile legally the jobs have to posted and recruiters deal with the candidates and the unknowns.It became so painful in most of the companies I worked for that I did try to speak out and change it but no one wants to hear it,not my immediate manager, not leader ship not anyone, the hiring practices have been broken for sometime. It has to change from the top down. as a recruiter I would even communicate to a candidate statingI haven’t heard anything but it became so painful that I left recruiting and I don’t know I can ever return, unless something changes. I have been looking for different types of positions and I am shocked by the amount of postings that are not real that link to other unrelated job type positions and asking dates of birth and other pertinent information that is not supposed to be asked, until after you’re hired is mind-boggling to me it’s actually illegal , I am passionate about changing it yet I had no influence whatsoever the larger companies are even the worst. I take a lot of pride in my recruiting ability and had many endorse me and send me personal emails, telling me how the experience with me made everything so palatable even if they hadn’t been given a job offer.if anyone out there knows how to change it and need somebody to help promote change, I am the person, please contact me.I’d be happy to join a team where they really want to change , talent acquisition and hiring ,In addition, I was interviewing many HR partners as a recruiter and also transform managers, and a lot of them were hired to make these changes, and nothing ever would go through with their recommendations and observations because leader ship ignored them. their frustration was severe.I was interviewing many HR partners and transform managers, and a lot of them were hired to make these changes, and nothing ever would go through. Their frustration caused them to start a new job search even after being with companies less than a year because they saw there was not going to be any change tbis lack of action caused them to start a new job search even after being with companies about a year because they saw there was not going to be any change.There Hass to be recognition of the issues and the obstacles preventing good hires by all involved in the process and even higher up or companies will keep crying. Why can I find good talented, dependable people. there Hass to be recognition of the issues and the obstacles preventing good hires by all involved in the process and even higher up or companies will keep crying. Why can I find good talented, dependable people.I understand the need for an application, and there are many who apply to jobs that are not qualified by any means, and those people should be sent a letter immediately from the applicant tracking system but after you speak with someone and they’ve interviewed the very least I could do as a recruiter is tell them I have no news, which was usually the truth ghosting recruiters has become the norm not the exception
Mary LetiziJanuary 15,2023 at 5:40PM UTC
I posted recently about everything you are talking about and so glad I came across your post. This explains and confirms a lot about what I have been going through in the past year. It's frustrating how much lack of communication exists within and this is the first honest and real info that I have read about the hiring process.
Allison BoyceJanuary 17,2023 at 2:18PM UTC
This is EXACTLY my experience.
I’ve been I’m Executive Search, or running recruiting in some form globally, in Tech, Private Equity and VC portfolio companies, since before the Dot Com era. I’ve built Web 1.0, prem to SaaS, and Web 3.0 technology companies. This is my third US downturn - #1 after 9/11, downturn #2 in 2008 now COVID. Let’s just say I’m informed. Since COVID, I just lost my 5th job if you include the furlough.
Here’s what I just encountered —
1) less experienced managers that wanted just new talent internally, incapable of coping with hard change, YES MEN. Generational haters.
2) tactical responses to slower demand, - ‘hiring freeze’, then ultra short deadline to fill, then ‘pay cut only’ offers, new RIFs, and most departments all running at 40% staffing levels,
3) move to hire in lower cost countries,
4) choosing low cost solutions (ATS) that destroys candidate and application experience,
5) ‘shoot the messenger’ - they don’t want to hear about process improvement, realistic reporting, service level agreements, interviewers lack of compliance understanding, or any feedback,
6) good ole boy network left standing,
7) unwilling to state the truth on compensation, internally and deal with it deceitfully.
I’m going to stop there, it gets much worse.
The market was very hot. I got a $50k sign on bonus and $300k RSUs leading up to this, and had 3 competing offers prior to this exec role. I have worked for major global companies and am very far from the end of my career.
But I’m no longer the youngest in the room. I actively try to look physically as young as possible, and I gloss over that I was in it before they were born.
So, after all of it, I’m Done. I cannot and will not return to it. If you’re in a toxic environment, dysfunctional, it’s going to reflect on you. Most people people will assume you’re incompetent, and I’m not up for that any more.
It’s stressful. I have chronic conditions that need treatment. I need the benefits. I have my youngest heading to college in the fall. Although I feel like I’m on a cliff, something must change. I’m flipping the script. I’m leaving the rat race, and ultimately maybe the US since A) great healthcare is only accessible through group insurance, and that’s no longer an option, and B) after paying significant federal and local taxes over 30 years - I got nothing. There is no protection as an older disabled woman, and all I got was some pictures of our great military, and leaders who boast about their financial performance who paid $800 taxes. Yeah, I’m DONE.
I sobbed after the last one. I thanked my colleagues who had to deliver the news, folks in HR are just the messengers and in the EXACT same boat. I hung up and began to grieve my career.
Interesting factoid, my new model will be multi stream revenue model. The Gig Economy has offered me new options - I’ll be building income in 4+ areas, with some recurring/residual income potential. And I’ll try shopping through ACA health care marketplace as an unemployed person for lower rates (my COBRA is $1900/mo). I’ve reconciled that this will hurt my daughter for college but I’m unwilling and incapable of going through it again).
These aren’t strangers - I was working with people I’ve known over 15 years.
It’s easy to blame Recruiting, especially when your leaders are emotionally tied to third party recruiters who weaponize it that it’s internal fault. It’s the US market, profit taking, greed, incompetence, fear. I realize this will likely be read to refute or dismiss.. but it is what it is! Look at the themes - gender bias, racism, ageism, opportunism, and cover your assets and throw people under the bus. It’s a total bummer .. and be very careful about harassment, FMLA, and documentation. You’ll need big money for a retainer, the EEOC is not on your side, the DOL is a joke. The inmates are running the asylum, plan accordingly.
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 2:36PM UTC
It is bad, and it's even more stressful for those of us that see a pending layoff at where we currently work. I just recently went through this too. It's so frustrating but keep going.
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 3:32PM UTC
I would hate to say it, but the third case they probably decided against you in the end and "too busy" was the nice way of cutting you out of the pool. You got short listed, but they either found their unicorn, or found something reason to cut you. (could be budget, could be 100 other things)
what you have experienced is totally normal for what I've gone through this past year after being cut myself. I took a lower job and I'm trying to get out of my field and area because it's really hitting rock bottom. Until you get an offer IN WRITING, you are nothing to the company.
I graduated into the 2007 recession so I've never known employment stability or loyalty.
Lisa MarieJanuary 15,2023 at 7:02PM UTC
There is nothing in the state of employment that is "causing" this sort of behavior. It is only happening because the decision-makers are douches. Plain and simple.
Forget about those three organizations and move forward with seeking your next best opportunity, somewhere else.
Those jobs were not for you, so don't bother wasting your time pining over "what could have been."
AnonymousJanuary 15,2023 at 10:03PM UTC
Original poster of the comment here - Your response shows you didn't even attempt to read my post in full and we're most likely triggered after the very mention of that very unfortunate incident.
AnonymousJanuary 16,2023 at 6:13PM UTC
To be clear in many companies especially larger entities and the smallest ones the HR/Talent function is a cost center. What does that mean, simply that they are likely to hire unsophisticated folks to just process resumes, keyword search and facilitate scheduling for interviews. A professional recruiter would be one who gives you up front details about the interview process and timeline and hiring goal for when they need someone in the role. Your responsibility as a candidate is to ask the questions in the first contact about these things. If it strays from what they tell you these are warning signs of some internal misalignment. End and beginning of the year many companies are doing budget reassessment and are deciding whether positions should remain open or not. Be sure when you speak to these companies that you also let them know your agenda and timeline. No one is clairvoyant and there is definitely in most situations things that shift both ways.
Do your homework and look at glass door reviews and see on linkedin who is leaving and how many ex- employees they have. The market right now is flooded with talent and while you may be fabulous they might also have selected someone who is a less pricey option. None of this really specifically addresses your exact situation but hopefully some inside info from someone who runs a Talent team can help. If a recruiter on my team left someone hanging or did not timely give info about the process and updates, I would be looking to replace them.
AnonymousJanuary 16,2023 at 10:30PM UTC
You are spot on with your comment about the employees who are nothing more than processors are being hired to push some applicants thru
and in many cases real talented, qualified candidates are dispositioned out for a reason that we will ever know.
As a real successful recruiter I pride myself in looking at a an entire résumé and ask questions about its content and maybe I should call this person and ask a few questions before I disposition out or assume they’re not a good fit, AINT happening anymore. I received four emails today asking me to get in touch with the below contact to discuss a position. They didn’t say what position so I followed up and they want to zoom camera on interview upfront which leads me to believe you will be screened out based on their opinions or perceived observations that cannot be determined by a video interaction.
and of course, then there’s the five page long application they want you to fill out before they speak to you. I’m sorry zoom is a waste of time in many situations, how about meeting me in person if I am local or how about you call someone ask them what they’re looking for assess their experience , and maybe then you go to the zoom interview, but these are agencies they’re not even internal recruiters or talent acquisition representatives. Its all broken. No consideration for the applicant’s investment of time.
The companies I’ve worked for after a 15 year run with one company just want you to present a handful of people and not even sell to the managers a person that might not look great on paper.
It’s painful and I have experience being treated that way myself while looking for a position..
Jennifer TannerJanuary 17,2023 at 2:18PM UTC
I've been through the gristmill like this over the past 6 months of my job search. It's awful out there trying to get hired. A bunch of the positions I've interviewed for have wound up ghosting me, then re-posting the same position. All I can assume is that their standards are incredibly high for the kind of pay they're looking for and they are bargain-shopping.
I feel like most of these interviews have gone well, too, so but I am both biased in my own favor and perhaps just over-confident at how well I'm doing on these annoying STAR interviews everyone is doing these days. I wonder how many job offers I have lost out to other candidates who did better with the STAR method than me -- I have memory issues plus none of my positions were of the "I increased productivity by XX%" or "added $5mil in revenue" kinds of jobs where I could put numbers to my results.
Honestly it boils down to a lot of crappy HR recruiters, ridiculous managers, and spineless, dishonest tactics. It wastes a lot of time for job candidates, but they don't care because they're not paying you -- and they don't seem to realize how much money they're wasting paying an army of recruiters, job boards, and hiring panels to sit around and essentially conduct endless, meaningless snipehunts.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2023 at 10:05PM UTC
the managers and leadership dont care about candidates
they have their job and dont get it!
I am leaving recruitment after 35 years because companies aren’t hiring recruiters. They’re hiring processors to just go through a list of administrative tasks with no real head hunting recruiting managing expectations, candidate care. Most importantly, I can’t do it anymore it’s broken and it’s not recruiter‘s in HR. it’s the internal staff and the people that need to hire and they just don’t care I’m out and I don’t say this easily
AnonymousJanuary 17,2023 at 11:50PM UTC
I couldn’t agree more. And they keep hiring young gatekeepers who don’t know a damn thing about HR or even the jobs that are hiring for.
AnonymousJanuary 18,2023 at 5:52PM UTC
yes sure blame the recruiters...that is often what many people do. Be sure to think about the fact that they are only facilitators and its usually the internal leadership or hiring manager that is really not sure what they want. Recruiters don't get paid to hire you if they are internal they march to the hiring manager or HR needs. If they are in an agency and external then they usually work on a fee basis and only get paid when the company they are doing a search for finds that needle in a haystack. Learn more about how the system works before you bash the whole profession. I take my work very seriously and think you need to understand how things work a bit better.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2023 at 11:06PM UTC
Interesting. I, too, am experiencing odd behavior in the hiring arena. The company I currently work for hired me six months ago to close out a project ending on January 31, and once completed; they would move me into a different role. As we are approaching January 31, I have asked for a transition plan; their reply "I can interview for open positions." The challenge, the jobs available are limited to a required skillset. For my other options, they pushed conversations out and kept the job posting open for others to interview.
JJJanuary 18,2023 at 6:54AM UTC
Yes HR is a mess right now but I’ve always found that to be the case in the nonprofit world.