Update - the boss/yelled at me.

36 Comments

1. AnonymousDecember 9,2022 at 7:26PM UTC

   Nope, HR is not your friend. Should it happen again, you should note the witnesses that are on the call (or present in the room if on - site). That way it doesn't turn into he said/she said.

2. MikaDecember 9,2022 at 8:01PM UTC

   That's true. I was thinking about it but I'm exhausted from the work and everything. I'm working on my way to get out asap. Thanks so much for your suggestion.

3. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 3:55PM UTC

   And email the witnesses! "Wow, I'm sorry you had to see [name] blow his top like that." or something lightweight that can be used as documentation later if needed. Forward or bcc: to a personal email account.

4. Crystal HowellDecember 9,2022 at 7:27PM UTC

   Never keep a low profile, document her. In emails, do not speak or confront her, so she can forget. Force her to email you back, and copy HR. Start looking for better job, do not gossip with others.

5. MikaDecember 9,2022 at 8:04PM UTC

   Thank you..so true about not gossiping.
   I have totally not done that. In the past I have and it worked against me. As I've realized coworkers are not your friend.

6. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 1:30AM UTC

   Yes! Document and document and document.

7. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 3:53PM UTC

   Your emails should reference the conversation to document that it happened. For example, "Regarding the discussion we had this morning about xyz ..." and make sure you seem like the reasonable party. "We concluded that I will do 1,2,3... and that it will be done by [day/date], correct? I want to be sure that my notes are correct. Please let me know if ...." or something like that. And bcc: your personal email address because if you get fired without cause and want to sue, you won't have access to your workplace email account.

   It won't help turn around a relationship with a true bully, but you may escape with a nice severance package if they see that you are well armed for a battle in court.

8. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 2:27PM UTC

   This is great advice, but realize that your boss and HR will see it for exactly what it is, which will likely make them accelerate trying to get you out. That said, make sure that your email documenting her screaming mentions the act itself. Like the other person noted, be dispassionate but describe her behavior and escalation and request that she kindly refrain from screaming at you. Let her know that the impact of her behavior interferes with your ability to perform optimally.

9. AnonymousDecember 9,2022 at 8:29PM UTC

   Yes, HR is there to protect managers and the company. Hopefully your boss will hesitate a bit before so aggressive. He will be extremely careful to cover his tracks now that he knows how to do so. HR will continue to support him so watch out.

10. MikaDecember 9,2022 at 9:33PM UTC

    Thank you..yes I think it has deterred her from yelling.
    But my boss is a woman. This is pretty disappointing. I've had two previous bosses who were men and honestly I loved my job. It's so disappointing to see this now. I was so looking forward to having a female boss and possibly a mentor. Instead its turned into a nightmare

11. AnonymousDecember 9,2022 at 10:15PM UTC

    I'm so sorry it's not been a positive experience for you, but all of my favorite bosses have been women, so don't let this one experience determine your path in the future. I've only had one bad female boss and she wasn't anything close to the worst boss I've had.

12. Meghan BDecember 12,2022 at 6:04PM UTC

    I've had great bosses who were women, and I've had bosses who were women and who were complete "mean girls" and absolute vipers. Sadly, my experience over 40 years of corporate and healthcare work experience has been about 35-40% great to "eh" and the rest absolutely horrific. The most consistent experience I've had with bosses has been from men. Now, I'm neurodivergent and an INTJ (and yes, Meyers-Briggs has issues, but from an archetype perspective it has uses) and have worked (except for a few years in ICU nursing) predominantly in male-dominated professions. So I'm not anywhere typical, but for a lot of us, bosses who are women can be problematic.

13. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 3:48PM UTC

    In my experience, surviving a complaint like that just emboldens the bullies. They know there won't be any consequences for their bad behavior, and that they can blame poor performance on the subordinate and not on their counterproductive management practices.

14. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 1:28AM UTC

    Lay low and look for another job. Sadly HR protects the company and not you.

15. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 7:33AM UTC

    Something similar happened to me when I reported my manager to HR. HR didn't see any wrong doing in my manager's actions and recommended me to improve my communication and work on my performance - my manager at that time accused me of underperforming which was a pure lie. So, yes, HRs are protecting managers, they behave like they act in your interests but they really don't give a beep about you. Just find another job!

16. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 11:33AM UTC

    When I reported my boss he denied the incident. you should try to get out of this company because not admitting her mistake is already a red flag.

17. customer JohnsonDecember 10,2022 at 2:25PM UTC

    From experience, the HR calculation compares the value of the manager to the value of the subordinate and multiplies by least-waves-possible. In their eyes, this is in defense of the Company without which none would have employment. It is highly unfortunate but reality.

18. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 2:40AM UTC

    A manager who causes high turnover has a negative financial impact, as it costs money to hire new people. The only financial upside of turnover is that all those new people will be working at the lower end of the pay scale.

19. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 4:11PM UTC

    I agree that HR's focus is on the company. However, my personal experience also points to nepotism and cronyism. I took a new management job with a company and witnessed the mass walkout of 8 of 15 staff members due to a manager who treated staff terribly. HR responded by promoting the manager to director despite the fact that every staff member who resigned that day had identical exit interviews that pointed to major issues with the manager. This is only one situation in one community. I'm sure it happens everywhere all the time. At least in this situation, the staff who left did not feel like they were totally alone or unjustified in their complaints. It's hard to gaslight more than one person at a time.

20. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 3:45PM UTC

    HR's job is to support the organization, not the employees. They literally have more investment in your boss than in you, so they have no real incentive to make your work life better.

    I'm sorry you experienced this, but you now know what kind of people & organization you're in, so you can go forward with the proper amount of wariness.

    Bullying is against the law in some countries, but not in the U.S., so unless you develop an anxiety disorder that requires an accommodation, you don't really have any legal recourse.

    Check the laws where you are, and see if you can record your interactions with your boss. In a "one-party consent" situation, your boss wouldn't need to approve of being recorded. You could even do it secretly. It could be against the employer's policy, but not against the law. Documenting the situation could protect you in the future, and listening to those interactions afterward with a neutral party (like a therapist or coach) might help you come up with some scripting to use in the future.

21. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 8:20PM UTC

    Unfortunately that is true. HR is focused on strategically supporting the organizations objectives. It will support employees to the extent that it is good for orgs health and wealth.

22. AnonymousDecember 10,2022 at 3:46PM UTC

    If the supervisor is in the habit of yelling at employees, it's possible he really doesn't remember. Who would remember something that they do every day?

23. Lyn WelchDecember 10,2022 at 10:28PM UTC

    Yep, low profile is best. HR told your mgr. What you were complaining about. Not good HR.

24. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 1:15PM UTC

    sadly, HR has turned into “protect the employer, not the employee”.

    What I experienced with HR leadership was shameful, subjective, lots of favoritism, bullying. It made me ashame. I worked underneath the HR umbrella in TA and when I reflect back and look at the people that were hurt by HR’s power, I’m ashamed that I wasn’t able to do anything about the situation because I was a mature person and I had to worry about my job and my pension.

    I talk to a lot of people and HR is all about the employer.

    They protect the managers.

    They train employees and talk about hostile work environment and they advise you on reporting all kinds of sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior and nothing ever happens and they talk about not retaliating when you report it, but that’s not true either.

    I would suggest you start looking for another position quietly good luck and I don’t say this easily because that’s not with HR was intended.

    Everybody’s entitled to a bad day, but from what I’ve seen in 40 years of employment, a manager, that yells at you and his moody, and his highly critical will not change.

25. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 2:00PM UTC

    Unfortunately, that experience is not a surprise. HR is on the company's side, not the employee's side.

26. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 2:20PM UTC

    HR is NOT your friend. It doesn't matter what company you work for anymore. If you reach the point that you need to talk to HR, make an exit plan first. They will collude and start secretly working on a plan to get rid of YOU, not the offending employee.

27. TiffanyDecember 11,2022 at 2:50PM UTC

    I responded to your original post. It sounds exactly like what I was saying occurred to me. You’re at the step now where you have to be cautious with your actions cuz every little thing you do is under a microscope now. It’s terrible when an organization creates this sort of climate and promotes managers deplorable behavior. This should tell you how your job truly is. Keep everything low key until you exit. Your future job may refer or contact this job in the hiring process. When this occurred to me, I started noticing behavioral change amongst the staff cuz it was known I contacted HR. Stay strong and keep a good face until you make a change.

28. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netDecember 11,2022 at 4:07PM UTC

    One of the problems with all of this is that we are only hearing one side of the story. We hear all about toxic work environments, terrible bosses etc but we don't hear about employees who are difficult to manage, have attendence problems, etc. etc. Of course HR works for the company...Once HR gets involved, it is a problem. I had no idea, in my naivete, that there are so many unhappy employees. I don't really even see this in the applicant market. Maybe I am just blessed. The only problems i have had this year in placing close to 150 people is one girl who couldn't pass her drug test and another who couldn't seem to get to work a full 5 days in the week. Other than that, everybody is in place. There are always two sides to every story and the truth is usually in the middle. I am still trying to get my head around the employee who wants to give a 6 month notice ...

29. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 8:22PM UTC

    I fully agree with your statement, you "have your naivete." Many workplaces today are extremely toxic because no one invests in training people how to be people leaders. Someone puts on their resume that they were a manager of one person, and suddenly they're managing a team of five. There's a difference in a taskmaster and a coach and people builder. Older generations were often taught to not make waves. That's why things like sexual harassment, racial harassment and so many other debilitating ills and the workplace were allowed to fester. It's often about willful naivete.

30. AnonymousDecember 12,2022 at 4:33PM UTC

    You working in "many workplaces"? Because that's a pretty broad statement to make without any real data here other than your opinions. Mostly all I'm seeing in your post is a whole lot of judgement without any substantiation or solution.

    Very tired of people trying pass of their opinions as facts on how things are in the real world based on their little worldview.

31. AnonymousDecember 12,2022 at 8:16PM UTC

    Or they have never managed at all. No education or background on how to manage or how to hire people. I think it’s easier for places to just replace a good worker rather than deal with the issues.

32. AnonymousDecember 12,2022 at 8:14PM UTC

    I will say the toxic job I had it was the boss in the department and most of the workers. The workers saw the boss always calling off or leaving early and they started to do it. It gets frustrating when you see the only one who showed up to work and got work done, while the rest play.

33. AnonymousDecember 20,2022 at 11:19PM UTC

    sounds like my current job. Boss and the others play sick a lot. Attendance is never brought up to them. Meanwhile I’m always reliable.

34. MikaDecember 20,2022 at 3:16AM UTC

    Well I can say I'm not known as a problem employee.

    Three of my previous employers have asked me to return to work with them again. Unfortunately they're too far away and don't offer health benefits. I never call in sick, or start late. This manager in question has never managed people before.

35. Denise MillerDecember 11,2022 at 8:01PM UTC

    Workplace gaslighting at it's finest. HR can check the box that they met with you and your boss; and your boss is now on notice that you went to HR. I don't know what the solution is here, but do agree that a low profile and time may help.

36. AnonymousDecember 11,2022 at 8:29PM UTC

    Been through this and it was horrific. Workplace abuse and PTSD is real. And there is a significant financial cost to the business, and I'm not talking about lawsuits. Many people who are bullied withdraw and "quiet quit." But more importantly, it's the impact on you for having to endure the abuse for a paycheck. As many have shared, HR is definitely NOT your friend. No matter how sweet and seemingly supportive they are, they're only pumping you for information to see if you have a valid lawsuit against the company. That's it. Even if you CYA with a emails, recordings etc, remember if you are BCCing emails, the company very likely is tracking your movements. Most if not all companies today have security software that checks your email. Keep your head down and start looking for another job. TODAY. It's easier to find a job while you have a job, especially in the economy. All the best to you and be good to yourself!