Trying to determine whether I should find a new job.

25 Comments

1. AnonymousMarch 14,2022 at 6:09PM UTC

   This sounds like my old job. I would not stay (nor work) some where that I had to work 50 hours of unpaid overtime. I would be looking and applying for new jobs. Your previous experience will shine. Saying it was not a good fit is much more common these days. Your mental health is important.

2. Kristie WhiteMarch 14,2022 at 6:49PM UTC

   Having experienced this in a prior position, it generally indicates that the PM(s) are struggling - they can't figure out what to do in order to succeed. When the PM can't lead, you have to look elsewhere for information and insight. It can make you feel that you are over-stepping and make a person hesitant to reach out. But I've heard many times that it is better to ask forgiveness than permission. At the end of the day, you have to gather enough information to do your job and your PM isn't providing it. I would interview anyone who may be able to help you upskill. You won't be able to get to the client, of course, but there are others that are probably managing. You can also validate your outreach with the evidence that you have had to use overtime to address last minute changes that you felt could have been identified more timely. I know it is frustrating, but I believe stepping into the role and finding the info you need may give you better long term results. As you progress in management and strategy, you have to use the skills more and more.

3. Crystal HowellMarch 14,2022 at 6:58PM UTC

   Usually, the PMs may not know what is going on; it trickles down. If you don't like the place, start looking with an industry recruiter; let them find you something while working. To get along, make sure to email your ideas suggestions, carbon copy yourself, and when it comes back, you have proof you alerted the team. Make sure you do a read receipt; make them accountable. Once someone else is watching, hopefully, they straighten up?

4. Monica Lynn SadlerMarch 14,2022 at 7:08PM UTC

   I agree with Kristie in that the PM(s) are struggling and can't figure things out and that it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission (in this case). I must also agree with Anonymous' statement that I would not work 50 hours of unpaid OT. I worked a job where I "chose" to stay at the office working. I was single, the company was struggling and I was Management. It was "my choice". That said, I wouldn't do it again. For me, that was an isolated situation with a lot of details that I will not bore you with. I'll say this...if your gut says leave, then begin looking for a job. If the short term of the position comes up during an interview, as suggested by Anonymous, say it wasn't a good fit. However, if you feel that you can push through, step into the role, set your boundaries and progress, then do so. I realize this is not an easy decision. Should you wish to talk it out, feel free to message me. I pray God gives you wisdom.

5. Andrea Macek, Career Change Coach for Professional WomenMarch 14,2022 at 7:42PM UTC

   As a former PM and now career coach, I also agree with Kristie. I would also ask you if this is a job you're ready and willing to fight for? I ask because your question was should I find a new job?

   I'm not at all saying that you just throw your hands up and be done, but depending on other factors that made you ask that question, you may want to consider what your next steps may be. If you've not previously tried what Kristie suggested, you can certainly see how that goes. You can also do that while keeping your options open and thinking about what's next. You get to figure out what's best for you and is worth focusing your effort and energy on. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Does that make sense? Here are few questions you can ask yourself:

   1. What do I enjoy about my job?
   2. If this situation improved, how would I feel about my job? Would I still be asking if I should leave?
   3. If it doesn't change, how would I feel?

   I hope this helps. Feel free to message me here if I can offer any further insight/support.

6. AnonymousMarch 14,2022 at 8:35PM UTC

   Sounds like a stressful mess with several red flags. I agree with others, sidestep the folks who are blocking you from doing your job well and efficiently, or if you’re not comfortable doing that on regular basis, then consider looking elsewhere. What you are seeing is probably what you can expect there going forward.

7. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistMarch 15,2022 at 5:05AM UTC

   I'm really, really sorry this happened to you. And I know how you feel. It's disappointing. I started a new project, one I'd hoped would be an eventual permanent position and I knew literally on day one it was not the place for me. It took me a couple of months to find another project, but I was proven correct in my day one assessment. Not the right place for me

   YOU SAID:

   Is it too soon to give up and find a new role?

   First of all, deciding that you deserve to work at a better run company where they appreciate your efforts and respect your time IS NOT GIVING UP.

   Please please please realize you have a right to be happy and fulfilled in your job.

   Also please understand that, unless you plan on making taking that kind of abuse your permanent career, there is no other outcome other than leaving.

   The PM is a bad manager. This is not going to get better, it will only get worse. You are correct, you can't do anything right for that person. But that's a them problem, don't make it a you problem.

   Putting yourself and your happiness first is not losing. It is not being a quitter. It is you standing up for yourself and saying I'm important to me and I don't need to take this sh*t anymore.

   As an employee, all you really have to invest is your time. Wouldn't you rather invest your time in a better run company, working for a better manager where it could pay off for you in the long run?

   The good news for you is that the job market is hot right now and your interviewing skills shouldn't be rusty. Update that resume, make sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date and start looking!

   Please let me know if you have any questions.

   GOOD LUCK!!!

8. Rachel EldridgeMarch 15,2022 at 12:24PM UTC

   I'm curious if you have tried to do things to change the culture. Have you set boundaries to limit overtime? do you work with managers and colleagues to set realistic timelines? That would hopefully cut down on last minute requests? Are you learning that you need to block out some time in your own timelines for the last minute requests? When given tasks have you been asking clarifying questions since the managers and supervisors aren't good at giving clear directions? Are you managing them so you get what you need? Is it possible to change within this company to a different set of managers? If you've done those things, then yes it's time to find a different workplace with a different culture.

9. BethBMarch 15,2022 at 12:45PM UTC

   Why is moving on giving up? Something is wrong, either with them, with you, or with the combination. It’s ok if it is a bad fit, That happens and it isn’t a reflection on you or your success, unless the same thing happens repeatedly no matter where you work.

10. Amy KeachMarch 15,2022 at 1:51PM UTC

    As a PM, it pains me to see the issues caused by PMs who are either not well trained, ill-suited for the position, or ill-informed. The suggestions given below, especially by Kristie and Joan, are excellent. Also, it's not your job to train the PM or do their job for them. The PM should be the team's champion, constantly striving to get the right information to the right people to do the job well. If that means communicating a delay to the client because the client changed their minds 16 times - guess what? That's the PM's job (and possibly the account manager, if you're in agency world). That said, there isn't a lot of information on the overall process the company follows for projects. Is a charter created and approved by the client? Are the deliverables outlined in that charter, and is there a change log in the charter itself - with language that describes the impact each change has on the project? I'm assuming the answer is no, and I'm also assuming there isn't a documented process the company follows. And if there is, it doesn't seem like it's being followed. Those are my red flags, and I agree with everyone here who says this is not your problem, you shouldn't feel you need to stay in a role that's not a good fit (for reasons outside your control and not your fault), and you should absolutely be looking for a new role elsewhere. Best of luck to you. I've been there and know how hard that is.

11. Crystal DerstineMarch 15,2022 at 2:20PM UTC

    I knew I wanted to quit my last job 2 months in. Its not too early. A new role should bring excitement and joy, but it sounds like its only bringing misery and suffering, so I'd say start looking.

12. Liz WanicMarch 15,2022 at 3:00PM UTC

    Some environments are just a mess. I would suggest that you think about whether it's worth it to you (or even possible) to improve things enough to make you feel comfortable. I think you can know the answer to that within a relatively short period of time. If the answer is yes, then you can give it some more time and see how things progress. If the answer is no, then it might be time to move on.

13. AnonymousMarch 15,2022 at 3:23PM UTC

    Start looking. There is no shame in a job not fitting. You don’t need to slam the current people in interviews, just say something to the effect that the job is not as advertised. Also, it is usually illegal to make employees work without compensation unless you are UPPER Management.

    I have a friend who does not get paid for overtime, yet is doing the work of two people. She comes in at her start time, leaves at quitting time. When asked about items that are behind, the response is - I work 8 hours a day because that is what you pay me to do. You gave me the work of two people. You do not want to pay me for overtime. And you don’t want to hire me an assistant. Therefore, I will prioritize my days as appropriate. Eventually, everything will get done. And it does. They don’t like it, but they gotta put up with it because if she quits, there isn’t anyone else in that department. And honestly, one person managing construction contracts is stupid.

    I was with the same company. I did the work of 4 people. My boss wasn’t a dick so I got paid overtime. New boss was a dick. We had some problems from the 1st day - who starts a new job and says “I’m not reading any of the construction files, I don’t care what they say”. When your job is the Construction Department’s Director??????? Yeah, I left. When I did, they replaced me with 4 people.

14. AnonymousMarch 15,2022 at 3:47PM UTC

    I agree with everyone here who is saying that quitting after 3+ months is not necessarily a bad thing. I quit a job after 6 months but if I had listened to my gut I wouldn't have taken it all, or I would have quit after the first day.

    Think about anything that has happened so far that could have been red flags. Was there anything during the interview process, onboarding, or the first few days that seemed "off"? If so, keep an eye out for them in the future. In my case, I should have known something was off when the boss would not meet me in the office - the interview was conducted in a restaurant. It turned out that the person I replaced didn't know she was about to be fired and the office was so small that the boss couldn't have interviewed me without everyone wondering why I was there. The boss was toxic in so many ways but a mutual friend had referred me to that job so I figured she couldn't be that bad.

    Start looking for another job now, and don't forget to let your friends and family know that you're looking - I found my current job through a family member and I couldn't be happier.

15. froerden@yahoo.comMarch 15,2022 at 5:17PM UTC

    You wrote my same experience except that my boss was not toxic, he was completely clueless! I interviewed in a restaurant twice, small office, and I knew on Day 1 something was “off”. On Friday I told him this was not right for me AND that I knew I was not right for the company. I left after 3 weeks.

16. AnonymousMarch 15,2022 at 8:06PM UTC

    Get out while you can because some companies are like a blackmark on your record that continues to instill doubt in your future employers. This sucks because if you fired once because you thought you deserved the leadership title that you worked for for so long only to find out it was given to someone mediocre and younger than you. Once you realize that they wish to get rid of you so as to not rival them, you will also realize that years will pass and they will till hate you and try to keep you from having the position you deserve because they are jealous. This will carry over to every boss you have because they will tell the others what a shit human you are.

17. AnonymousMarch 15,2022 at 8:21PM UTC

    At this place, I also found myself the target of all kinds of untrue gossip that seriously made it years into my future employers. People would tell others stuff that was 100% untrue and it would affect my employment elsewhere.

18. AnonymousMarch 16,2022 at 12:21AM UTC

    Go, get out of there, cut your losses. This is not about you giving up, it’s about you putting yourself first, which means your physical & mental health are the priority not an afterthought. The unpaid 50 hours — don’t get me started. The work environment is chaotic and it doesn’t have to be, the very fact that the “managers” have awareness and haven’t made efforts to correct — they too are part of the problem.

19. Rosa GoesMarch 16,2022 at 2:03AM UTC

    The 90 days is the standard review/probationary period for most companies. It's enough time to see if it's a good fit for both employee and employer. Decide on the type of team & manager you are looking for and start exploring other opportunities. Talk to recruiters for advice, this happens all time and there is no reason to feel like you are giving up too soon.

20. Liz MilneMarch 16,2022 at 2:29AM UTC

    I've not yet scrolled through the comments, so apologies if others have already asked this: when you say you 'weren't heard' regarding the missed step, what exactly do you mean:

    A) You spoke up and others on the team said, 'nah, doesn't matter'

    B) You spoke up, but literally no one heard you because you weren't forceful enough, so saying 'I told you that' won't do you any favours after the client is already unhappy

    C) You spoke up, people seemed to take it on board, but then didn't actually action anything

    All of these are problematic, and being ignored, whether deliberately or accidentally are, if not red, then at least pink, flags. If it's because you're not being noticed because you're too quiet/ too polite/ too understated, when I would say you need to try and get a bit louder - insist on being heard. You were employed for a reason, and given how much work they've piled on you they either really appreciate your work or they're badly understaffed: both of these give you a good position to ask for paid overtime, or days off in lieu.

    Time to sit down with management for a long undisturbed chat and air *all* your issues, I think?

21. AnonymousMarch 16,2022 at 2:50AM UTC

    Thank you for your questions - I've been reading the comments here and appreciate the responses and advice.

    In regards to your questions, yes I would speak up during team meetings and get blank stares or silence before the conversation continues but without recognizing what I've said. I've sent emails or shared images via office messaging on my thoughts about the project and some things I was considering for my work, and no responses. I create a suggestion and send it for feedback and it's returned with comments that we will be going with the PM's direction. And recently I made a design suggestion, the client liked it and the PM credited another person on the team and told them to present it to the client. I work in architecture and the culture is that you should be willing to work overtime and have a heavy workload, receive no compensation because other people are busy too. And I've spoken to management and the response was ok I'm busy too, but we'll hire someone so you're not overwhelmed. However the definition of new hire is to find an intern who can produce intermediate level work. The office is understaffed with not enough experienced people. I'm also a senior level designer, but was given a non senior job title because I was told my skills are "almost there but not yet". I asked what it would take and how long to be a senior at the office and was told they didn't know. My reason for taking the job was because I was unemployed during pandemic.

22. Liz MilneMarch 17,2022 at 8:03AM UTC

    Oh gosh that sounds like an absolute nightmare! I hate the 'but we're all tired/ overworked/ underpaid' thing, it's a way of silencing genuine issues... I honestly don't know what to suggest, it sounds like you've done everything right in a horrible workplace...

    Grit your teeth and keep going while you look for other opportunities elsewhere?

23. KileyMarch 16,2022 at 9:16AM UTC

    Same here. In the role 3.5 months. Lack of direction, no clarity, poor manager support, eveything dumped on me and toxic, political and stressful culture. 1 month in the role I applied for a fabulous executive role and was interviewed the following month by a number of senior stakeholders. 1 week later I got the offer and will soon start the new role (with significant pay increase which I asked for and full-time home based working). Sounds like you have done everything reasonably possible to find a way to make your job work and yet nothing has changed. Time for you to create an exit plan......start today. Good luck.

24. AnonymousMarch 17,2022 at 6:39PM UTC

    There are times when, no matter how hard you try, you cannot get on the same frequency with a person/department/company. It's even more frustrating when you are working with someone who clearly doesn't know what they are doing, but is given more credence because they have been there longer. Keep going and celebrate any little wins along the way. But I'd definitely be looking for a new role.

25. froerden@yahoo.comMarch 17,2022 at 6:54PM UTC

    I had the exact experience, right down to the restaurant interview. Stay and keep doing your best in every way but actively look for a new job!! Good luck