I just need to vent to those who understand.

I just need to vent to those who understand. I am the practice manager of a very small office. Employees are hard to find in this area...and especially now with the work force choosing to stay home. So I keep my "management" thoughts to myself and not say anything that could be perceived as criticism. However a situation had gotten out of control and and I finally needed to coach an employee for her blatant and repeated disrespect of me and the office protocols/procedures. At the end of the day she gives me her two week notice. Said she can't work now that there's "bad blood" between us. HOLY COW...if she only knew how much I haven't said to her about her behavior. I mean..what the heck?

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108 Comments

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  1. Anonymous

    This is the current state of affairs.

    Geez

  2. Anonymous

    Some people can't take feedback well. Some people internalize it and others do what she did. Some have a healthy response which is what we all hope for.

    I would say since we don't know exactly what was said and how long you waited to say something....is reflect on this situation and see how you might change next time?

    Maybe she saw it as...I have been doing this this way for however long I have worked here and now you said something? or maybe she really just can't take feedback?

    You are also the manager and feedback is part of your job. It's not always a fun part....I wasn't the biggest fan in my previous role due to some ridiculous rules by the owner and yes people quit frequently because of them.

  3. Anonymous

    The way OP delivered the feedback could have been the issue as well as the feedback itself, but delaying it was a huge error.

  4. Anonymous

    Let her go and be thankful you don't have to pay her unemployment.

    The gods have blessed you.

  5. Deborah Pavek

    Honey, some folx just can't take feedback. You were giving her feedback on office procedure & protocol that she had repeatedly and blatantly disregarded. The fact that you even wanted to discuss this behavior with her at this point is good for you, you certainly had every reason to let her go. I'm assuming there was an employee handbook and she knew she was in the wrong. It's really not that difficult to be a professional in the workplace.
    I mean seriously, all it takes is to:
    Arrive on time or 5 mins early
    Treat everyone the way you would like to be treated
    Do your damn job
    Be Nice
    Dress Appropriately

    That's it. Learn how to answer a phone properly and how to answer an email professionally and not sound like a teenager (or social media influencer)-bonus points.

  6. Anonymous

    She didn't disregard procedure and protocol as far as she knew it. It sounds like she wasn't given a chance.

  7. Anonymous

    She was given a chance when she was given the feedback… she decided to quit instead of listening. She is being paid by them, they are allowed to ask for what they need

  8. Anonymous

    I wouldn’t entertain any of her shenanigans. If she couldn’t have a discussion about her performance at work, then good bye bye..

  9. Anonymous

    Typo….good bye.

  10. Robyn Wick

    Taking and using critical feedback can be hard (giving it is hard, too, as you know), but it is a skill set that makes you a better employee in the long run. I know it puts you in a hard position to be down a person, but this is a blessing for you. She was never going to change her ways and she made that clear.

  11. Anonymous

    How was she to know that she needed to change until the OP made a total about-face on whether they were satisfied with the employee?

  12. Robyn Wick

    She has addressed this above and that wasn't the situation.

  13. Bretley Danner

    Sounds like one of those “good riddance” situations. You have most likely helped the whole office and everyone in it. If she can’t take feedback from her supervisor, she has probably been a worthless distraction for other employees. Meaning, she is the type of employee that isn’t a team player, but only there for herself.
    Don’t stress, it’s probably saved you from a lot of trouble, and hassles that would have presented themselves in the future.

  14. Anonymous

    ahhhhh mind-reading is such a great skill in a supervisor! I love it when my manager tells me what I'm thinking or feeling.

  15. Bretley Danner

    Huh?

  16. Bretley Danner

    You say the words, “sounds like”, “most likely “, and “probably “? Neither you or I was there. I know that…

  17. Rene Letendre

    I mean, I'd agree that it is not acceptable to work with "bad blood" between people. But quitting should not be the first answer. You and those you manage are in a partnership where each of you should be focused on making the OTHER'S job easier--making the other one look good. If you tolerate unprofessional or unproductive behavior just so that you don't rock the boat, you are missing out on the opportunity to grow and improve as a team (which ultimately ought to serve the business' needs and result in positive progress towards their mission and goals). And if an employee decides to quit in response to 1 conversation with hard feedback, then good riddance. Regula dialogue, authentic communication, and a genuine desire to grow and learn and thrive should be the norm, not the exception.

    I'm sorry good employees are challenging, and I hope that you find someone who seeks to add value and be valued as a result.

  18. Anonymous

    Yes! Management is a two-way street. A manager who doesn't support employees can't expect loyalty, let alone gratitude. In a seller's market, employees don't have to be grateful for a low paycheck that comes with dishonest, conflict-averse managers when there are other places that will be more conducive to success. Giving someone the impression that everything is okay and then suddenly letting loose with a criticism about something that's been going on for awhile can only break the trust that an employee needs to have in a supervisor.

  19. Anonymous

    Sounds like there was bad blood already. You may have thought you were holding back but chances are your dislike of her was clear in your non-verbal actions.

  20. Cyndy Trivella

    I agree. People don't realize how their body language and facial expressions reveal their thoughts even when not intentionally done.

  21. Anonymous

    Yes.

  22. Heather Brown

    Sounds like neither you or her were very happy with her performance in the workplace. Maybe there were other issues at play? You can ask her but I don’t think you’ll get an answer.

    I think it might just be one of those situations where it’s better off all round if she moves on…

  23. Lori Caso

    Be relieved. Her attitude wasn’t going to get better. This sounds like a square peg / round hole type of situation. I hope you find a person who’s a better fit.

  24. Amber Mabrey

    Truth. I have seen some unbelievable employee behavior these past 2 years. This is what I've learned from it.
    Letting things build up in you while she was under the impression her performance was acceptable was a mistake.
    Have a code of conduct in place and share your expectations as part of the hiring process. This includes attendance and professionalism policies.
    You may have been fed up by the time you addressed her and she had no clue it was coming.

  25. Anonymous

    The flip side of that is unbelievable manager behavior—and there’s no shortage of that, either.
    As a manager, its never a bad idea to listen and ask questions of your employees/direct reports first to find out what’s really going on with them and to proffer coaching in a positive, respectful way that could enhance someone’s performance.
    OP: no dis here but when you approach a situation thinking “you should be grateful I held back until now” (or something to that effect), what you *do* say might not be coming across as benignly as you think. If you do have an ongoing concern that what you say might be perceived as critical, perhaps consider taking a communication-skills-for-managers type course.

  26. Anonymous

    Nobody is ever grateful for being lied to!

  27. Anonymous

    I wish feedback was given more as advice and mentoring on how to improve than as something negative because of which someone will suffer negative consequences.

  28. Anonymous

    It's never a good idea to hold back, and not address an issue right away. This way, nobody can say you didn't communicate. You waste valuable time by letting things fester, especially if it's something so blatant. Yep, not easy to find someone mindful, punctual, detail-oriented, professional and skilled - so when you DO find these people--VALUE THEM, appreciate them, acknowledge them, and compensate them fairly! Otherwise, they WILL leave too.

  29. DeBorah S. Walker

    Good riddance. Evidently she has the wherewithal to get up and quit, and the lack of maturity to communicate and move forward positively. A mature person, wouldn't quit so hastily...but because it is a small office, the awkwardness up close and personal...but you had to do it; therefore, her being weeded out is a good thing...you have to run a small office intimately.

  30. Anonymous

    It sounds like employees have choices in that region, and perhaps the employee wants to work for someone who will be honest with them rather than employer who withholds criticism and implicitly approves of behaviors until it's too late.

  31. Anonymous

    As an employee, I honestly might have had the same reaction she did. It probably felt random because you've held so much in. One of my biggest complaints about my past employment has been poor supervision. Employees should get consistent feedback from day 1 and issues that arise should be addressed as close to the issue as possible. If correction or coaching is needed it should be delivered with tactful honesty focused on what is required to improve. I like to feel like my boss has my back and wants me to succeed. Sometimes this means they have to say hard things to me and I take I a lot better when it doesn't feel like they were trying to build a case against me or set me up to fail because the didn't respect me enough to say something.

  32. Cindy Lacey

    Good point. I have had supervisors hold back corrective information until it was review time. Not sure how I am to be held responsible for "errors" when they weren't pointed out timely. I also see a lot of judgemental wording in the original post.

  33. Anonymous

    I got fired by a manager who said nothing negative for months and then unloaded with a firehose of complaints in a written warning, and repeated them in the annual review. I didn't stand a chance. I was set up to fail, but my ex-boss is probably proud of herself for running me off. I'm not the first one, and I probably won't be the last one. If she wants to believe we are the problem, I'm sure she can lure a long string of people into accidentally racking up reasons for her to hate them. Eventually, someone above her will figure out that she is the problem employee.

  34. BethB

    What the heck indeed. Except it’s not what you think. It’s the judgement implied in much of what you said. While it’s good riddance to someone who can’t be respectful or accept coaching, you are coming across as a bit arrogant, like managers are better than the “workforce.” And “choosing to stay home.” There could be reasons you are having trouble hiring you don’t even realize. And if you have accepted her behavior in the past, the coaching could have been a shock. Also was it truly coaching or was it a reprimand?
    The job market is wide open. People at every level have choices.

  35. Anonymous

    The days when you could mismanage people and have a steady supply of replacements for people who decide they don't need the BS are long over. The labor market is a seller's market this year, and with social media, everybody knows who the toxic / unpleasant employers are in an area.

    Not that the OP is toxic, but having trouble rounding up a good candidate pool has as much to do with the employer as with the potential candidates.

  36. Anonymous

    “ the work force choosing to stay home”

    That statement drips with disdain and judgement, no it screams with it. I’m guessing that all your hard work disguising your “management” thoughts is not as successful as you think it is. I also strongly suspect your coaching someone how to not be disrespectful isn’t as on point as you expect either.

    Guiding people to better choices early & often is leadership. Waiting til things get to what you deem unbearable and then forcing your coaching on a person is perhaps unlikely to yield great results?

    Judge less, find your empathy and come from a place of helping people improve, not admonishment for disrespecting you and your procedures. Better luck next time.

  37. Anonymous

    There’s a lot of good riddance comments here.

    Many employees are in a maximum capacity situation where treatment during Covid is untenable. You mention policies/procedures. Is it possible that these policies/procedures are old school? Is it possible that they are Covid policies were too strict and/or unreasonable expecting employees to work with little/no protection? For example, our office is client services and we are expected to put clients first. But expectations have only increased because employees “have no where to go.” My office did little To protect against this. They capitalized on our fear of job loss.

    Maybe she views the environment as one with lack of support and toxic behaviors?

    I think we all have to consider that each one of us is toxic to someone. If we don’t like a colleague and make limited effort to be cordial… that could be toxic for them.

    This is presented as a clear cut case, but very few things in life are “right” vs “wrong.”

    I am more interested in hearing about the situation than agreeing with you. I suspect there is more to it.

  38. Anonymous

    I am also betting this is a low wage job.

    The ease with which you just labeled people you know nothing about as toxic and recommended a path for quick removal is a little disturbing.

    What sounds toxic is that environment; low pay, high stress & apparently dismissal looming over your head.

    Pay people a living wage and treat them with respect. Your employees deserve it & your customers/clients/patients deserve staff that knows their jobs because they’ve been there a while and maybe don’t even hate their jobs because they’re being taken care of.

  39. Mary Kerdasha

    This sort of situation is always hard, because somewhere in the middle is the truth, but right now you have two very different perceptions of what has occurred in the office. My advice as the practice manager is when you can review what happened objectively see if there is anything you would do differently. Managing is not easy but when a situation like this happens reflecting and then moving on can have a positive come out of a negative situation. Also try to find a manager mentor that you can trust and confide in when things like this come up.

  40. Sarah Borders

    ☝?This, and be sure to have an exit interview. Take every opportunity to understand the employee’s perspective in this situation.

  41. Anonymous

    Special Snowflakes are a dime a dozen these days. Waiting for the “you hurt my feelings” phase of their life is over.

    If it helps put a smile on your face, my husband substitute teaches auto shop at the local high school. Mostly to get him out of the house since he retired (because he was driving me crazy). He told a kid one day to sit down and shut up. You know that kind of smart ass kid, constantly talking and disrupting class. Kid looked at him and said “you hurt my feelings Mr.B and I’m going to tell my parents then you are going to get in trouble”. Mr. B said, and I quote: I don’t give a shit about your feelings, sit down, shut up and please have your parents call me, I would love to meet with them to discuss your behavior and lack of respect for anyone in the classroom. What is going to happen to me? I get fired? Jokes on you kid, I don’t need this job. He may or may not have added you little shit.

    Sometimes I have to remind him to watch his language at school. His feeling is nope. First of all, if these kids want to be mechanics, they need to learn now that language is rough and hurt feelings are going to get them bullied. And nope, he’s 76 years old and he can say what he wants. Sigh. gotta say, he isn’t stressed!

  42. Anonymous

    Bullies are going to get them bullied, not their feelings. Lol. It's more than okay to have feelings and to want to be treated respectfully. At the same time this also means taking responsibility for one's actions. The kid was in the wrong and it probably would have been just as effective to say sit down and be quiet, you're disrupting this class and if you can't do that you may (insert whatever consequence). Both things can be true. There is room for growth on both sides.

  43. Anonymous

    Well, he has tried the sit down and be quiet approach, the bring your chair up here and sit at my desk and the, get out and go to the office method. Sometimes a kid just needs to hear it like it is.

    I will say that this year a formerly disruptive, whiney, told his mom what the teacher said kid came back. He is a totally different kid. Why? Because last summer he worked in a garage. He was a little battle weary and certainly shocked at the behavior grown men exhibit when working in a garage (and oh my, the pictures on the walls!). But he learned, decided he really liked the work and now has better respect and work ethic. So win-win on that one.

  44. Dagney Taggart

    I doubt it. That kind of behavior needs to be addressed exactly as it was. These kids get out in the real world and think they can treat everyone this way and find out quickly that they can't. More schools should not tolerate poor behavior in their classrooms; perhaps we wouldn't have tons of people who believe that they're entitled to something. The world owes nothing to anyone.

  45. Anonymous

    Omg! I envy the honesty that a pension or other retirement income, and age/maturity afford.

    There are people who need to shut up and sit down.

    As you see from my anonymity I am not retired!

    Great chuckle for my morning!

    About original poster, I wish you luck

  46. Anonymous

    I think in today's environment you actually have to be sure to manage. I don't think you should keep your management thoughts to yourself but maybe you don't approach it as criticism either. I'd suggest looking at it as "helpful development." I also suggest empathy, understanding, and flexibility but definitely include expectations and accountability. I manage a very large team. You can't turn off the management during this time, you probably need to turn it up, but you definitely need to approach helpfully and with understanding of the challenges COVID has brought. If you have someone not performing, you need to address it. It's only fair to the employee but also to their peers. No one wants to pick up slack for people who aren't pulling their weight for long periods - they are happy to help in a short term circumstance but not to cover for someone who isn't performing and probably won't in the future. You need to look hard at what is going on with the staff, what the issues are with the work environment and any issues with performance but then approach with a solution oriented helpful attitude with clear expectations of what needs to happen. Good luck! Please keep managing but definitely consider how you approach to bring their performance up in an understanding and flexible way.

  47. Danielle

    I need to address the choosing to stay home comment. I can promise you people aren’t “choosing to stay home”. That comment makes no sense. What people are choosing to do is demand to be paid a fair and living wage. Have you seen the cost of food lately? It’s skyrocketed. Chances are, you’re requirements for employment do not equate to the job and your pay is too low. Maybe look at your reviews on Glassdoor.

    If behavior truly needs to be corrected, then you should do so. Are you choosing to micromanage less? Maybe it’s time to take a hard look on how you manage your team. Typically, one coaching session wouldn’t make someone quit. My guess is there’s a behavior you’re choosing not to change.

  48. Anonymous

    these comments are off base and not helpful

  49. Joann Halpern

    Actually, this comment is spot-on & accurate. If it stings you a bit, perhaps you’re recognizing those observations in yourself. The discomfort can mean change is needed. Food for thought.

  50. Anonymous

    I dont know a single person who has stayed home just to collect unemployment. It's not enough money to live off of anyway. I know people who stayed home because they couldn't find jobs that paid enough or they were sick or they had child care issues or elder care issues. If the discomfort means change is needed...then I agree everyone should unionize and demand better conditions.

  51. Anonymous

    I make 6 figures and have worked every day since I was 15. I still find the generalizations and judgements disgusting.

  52. Danielle

    And you don’t find the OP’s attitude revolting? I feel for the employee. If I was met with a laundry list of my I suck at my job, I’d start looking too. I would be introspective and change the negatives.

  53. Anonymous

    I personally know quite a few who've chosen to stay home and collect unemployment - even before the "pandemic" junk. They work just long enough to qualify for unemployment, then take off for deer season or whatever. There are just people like that.

  54. Anonymous

    The cost of living there must be super, super cheap! Anywhere I've lived, unemployment is a fraction of the cost of living.

  55. Anonymous

    “Some people” isn’t ALL of them. My frustration with a lot of these throw away generalizations is that they are genuinely hurtful and have real world consequences.

    Empathy, ladies… learn it, live it, radiate it

  56. Danielle

    I actually really like your last line of your comment. Please understand I’m not trying to lack empathy here. I find the OP’s tone to be a little disrespectful. I chose to respectfully point that out.

  57. Danielle

    Again, people are only getting a 3rd of what they typically make and unemployment caps out and has time limitations.

  58. Christy K. Hanthorn

    I don't manage employees, but I manage (or try to!) adult students ranging from around 16 to 60. You never know which one is going to be rude or disgruntled. Sometimes it's just the way someone is...his/her/their general demeanor; other times, they're looking for someone to take it out on--"it" being anything....other classes, work, problems at home. I become the punching bag. The one thing I've learned. Scratch that...the most USEFUL thing I've learned is to address it immediately. Now, when a student is rude in person or via email, I address it in writing and let them know why their actions are perceived to be rude. I have to do the latter because almost always they say they're not being rude....even when they're screaming at me. In the end--if the issues aren't resolved or if they continue--I send it up the chain along with the paper trail. You cannot let these things get out of control, or it will be too late to turn back.

  59. Anonymous

    I am reading many of the comments below and I am scratching my head. Wow...seems like alot of overthinking here! Firstly, I work in a rural area and Yes, good help is hard to find and esp in this Covid/post Covid/work from home era. Your caution is understood, and I'm sorry you're getting criticized here for it. I think most employers and esp in small settings, rural settings, etc...are very careful these days. Being a careful manager and keeping thoughts to self are an important safeguard; everyone is walking on egg shells and esp managers and HR folks. With all of that being said....you had to step in with an employee who was out of control. And...she's resigned. If your actions were warranted (and it sounds like they were)...then don't take it to heart. Anyone who cites "bad blood" and quits a job sounds extremely immature (and probably the basis of her poor work behavior anyway). The only critique I have is for you to look deeply into your heart and think about why you're hurt by this. She was disrespectful to you...and now she's quit. Do you need to be a bit stronger in your management style? Is she the bully-type and you were somewhat kow-towing to her? Just think about that. I sense you're a very kind and non confrontational manager--nothing wrong with that but sometimes, being "nice" bites us in the tush (been there/done that). Take this as a learning and tweaking experience and move on. Her immaturity far outweighs and of your professional deficits. If anything, you were "too nice" for "too long". Good luck!

  60. Anonymous

    Being non-confrontational helps people get into management, but it can hold someone back from being a good manager.

  61. Kimberly Lyn

    I read and re read your reply to me. Thank you for a well thought out response. I guess I was hurt by her response because I know in my heart of hearts that me and the Dr. try very hard to put the employees first and have done some remarkable things to let them know how we feel about them. For example, her son is in the Army. She worries about him daily. EVERY SINGLE TIME he comes home on leave we let her take off every day to be with him. The office covers for her because all of us are mothers and understand her fears. When gas prices increased we gave her a raise because her commute was costing more and she was threatening to leave because the commute was more. We gave her a pretty huge Christmas bonus. And keep in mind when she came to us 3 years ago, we hired her with zero medical skills and trained her at great inconvenience to our office until she was able to stand on her own. We did this because our mutual friend told us she needed a job after recently getting divorced. And the ONE time we tell her to to something that we expect from all of them, she leaves. I guess I'm hurt because we cared more about her than she cared about us. I took it personal and I should know better. I was shocked that she would leave a place where she has zero pressure and a pretty good pay and now has a career title she can compete with in the employment market if she ever needed to. I don't want to be a cold hearted business owner but when things like this happen It bewilders me because I do know we genuinely care about each of them as people first.

  62. Anonymous

    I am the author of the comment above yours (here)..and I am a PCP. I would LOVE to have you managing my office. I'm glad you feel that my reply was thoughtful and helpful. Press on, friend. Yep, she didn't treasure what she had!

  63. Jaime

    I think the issue may be in part because feedback wasn't previously provided. If there was an open dialogue all along, she wouldn't have been blindsided but this coaching. I know that can be tough, but by keeping "management" thoughts to yourself, it creates confusion when you need to put on your manager hat. It might be time to make a change with your other employees.

  64. C Allen

    I think you misinterpreted her response. I saw nothing of a write up or an official (documented) corrective action. She simply said she was forced to coach her. Was that not a "warning" for this employee. I think she's simply trying to gaslight this manager into getting her way. Even though she put in her 2 weeks, it worked. Now this woman is doubting herself for absolutely no reason.

  65. Anonymous

    But it was a “I’ve been keeping a tally of your failures to myself quietly for months” air to the whole thing.

    I love the other comments here about the importance of timely feedback. When someone springs old transgressions on you it does feel like an attack.

  66. C Allen

    I definitely see your point but it also depends on how those tallies r conveyed. Tone is. Key piece of the puzzle we r all missing

  67. Anonymous

    Withholding constructive criticism and letting people get away with something you don't approve of ... until you decide they won't get away with it... is damaging to the relationship between supervisor & supervisee. That bad blood is a sense of betrayal of an unspoken contract, that you will provide guidance to help the person become successful.

    This is a common mistake we all make, so learn from it, and in the future, try developing a continuous feedback culture (90% positive to 10% negative). In any workplace, there are written & unwritten rules. The unwritten rules often have to be clarified, i.e., what should go without saying often actually has to be said.

    Good luck with the next hire.

  68. Anonymous

    How was the tonality of the conversation? Were you defensive? Do you raise your voice and did you sound overly emotional regarding the situation? Tonality and words matter.

  69. Pooja Mukherjee

    Maybe she thinks that you disrespected her. She just chose to leave the situation. Let it be. She did what she thought was best for her. You should also do what's best for you.

  70. Anonymous

    Some business fields are really feeling the strain during the pandemic. I think you are just trying to explain how hard it is to hire new employees with your first two sentences and many are taking it as a low wage job. There is no mention of the particular type of business or a comparative wage issue.
    The problem is trying to retain the employees you have even when they are blatantly doing things that could jeopardize the business. Some people will try to push the line as far as they can if they think they can get away with it or that you need them too much to confront of fire them for serious infractions. It's a fine management line when you are in a small office, trying to be friendly and create a work "family" to encourage retention versus being the boss that has to handle toxic and potentially costly situations. Don't bottle things up or let them slide, let employees know that some behaviors are not acceptable in your business. Other employees may be upset if you are letting certain people get away with certain behaviors. You can be their boss and work family just maintain your expected standards.

  71. Anonymous

    Withholding constructive criticism (and perhaps setting a poor example) creates toxic employees. There needs to be some self-reflection in this situation.

  72. Kari Parker

    That is ALL on her. If she were professional, she'd take the criticism and use it to inform future behavior. There is no bad blood and you did nothing wrong. Maybe she was looking for a reason to leave?

  73. Anonymous

    Really? we know nothing about the content of the conversation, the nature of the offenses or the people involved. Just that one of the parties posted a vent here. Be supportive of the vent, or sure… but 3rd parties with no detail rallying behind either participant does nobody any good.

  74. Anonymous

    Agreed.

  75. Kari Parker

    What's the point of posting if we aren't supposed to reply?

  76. DeBorah S. Walker

    Exactly!

  77. DeBorah S. Walker

    Did you not read Kimberly's dissertation (laugh). She gave a healthy description of what went on what she said, what she thought and a personality briefing of the woman that she had to give a chat to.

  78. Dee Dee

    VENT on! I'm sitting here sipping my tea as we sit on the bench outside in the cool breeze while you vent! I'm nodding and listening.

  79. Anonymous

    If she left after your conversation, she was going to leave anyway. She just needed an excuse. Good riddance! Maybe the next employee you get will bring less stress.

  80. Renee Radcliff Sinclair

    I'm all for venting. Carry on. But remember it was her decision to leave and it kind of sounds like maybe she wasn't the best fit for your organization anyway. Her decision. Not yours.

  81. MidwestMaven456

    The only thinking you should do on this is to see what you could have done better for next time. You're the boss, act like it. If criticism is needed, do it, kindly but firmly. Not letting things come to a head and get out of control would be good, too.

    The real thing is this. If this is a vent, and you do that once and move on, fine. If you find that you are taking all of the supervisor responsibilities to heart and constantly focusing on them, beating yourself up, being overwhelmed, feeling you are under immense pressure and other negative responses, you may want to rethink your position and look for something better suited to your personality.

  82. Mary.Ross901@commonspirit.org

    I think you handled it respectfully and professionally. You didn't put the 'criticism' out there. He coached her on what she was doing that was wrong, and like someone else said, if at the end of the day she doesn't recognize you gave her an opportunity to turn it around and she left, she was going to leave anyways.

  83. Sabrina Rahman

    Did you actually coach her or did you yell at her?

    Things we will never know.

    But if she’s happier elsewhere then that’s better than having an unmotivated employee.

    Also, with you having experienced this, maybe you’d be better off in future saying something at the time rather than waiting for a long time and then, potentially, letting rip on the employee.

  84. Anonymous

    Agree. Bosses who save up their frustrations and let them out all at once don’t help.

  85. DeBorah S. Walker

    I agree ? on this; however, I didn't get that notion from Kimberly, even before her dissertation response.(?) ...I did gather that she just doesn't gripe about everything; and this time was the time to talk.

  86. Kimberly Lyn

    yea..sorry about the dissertation...

  87. Anonymous

    Actually that helped me understand what was going on.

  88. DeBorah S. Walker

    No need to be sorry...you were giving a clear vision of what led up to you speaking to your employee...

  89. M Baaza

    So that means there will be an opening in your company in two weeks. Are you taking applications?

  90. Anonymous

    You’re painting with an awfully broad brush here. FACTS

    It’s judgmental and dismissive. FACTS

    We all need to find our empathy and understanding for people whose circumstances may be very different than our own. FACTS

  91. Danielle

    Maybe so, however you don’t find the OP’s post a little harsh? Even the slightest? She sounds in empathetic. You should lead with certain compassion. From her words, I’ve construed she met her employee with the same hostility as her post. I could be wrong, I would be more than willing to listen and talk it out if I am.

  92. Danielle

    Unempathetic*

  93. cmst3

    lol... the 'warm & fuzzy' feeling is gone. Good luck with her replacement!

  94. Danielle

    What facts do you have supporting people choosing to stay home? Do you know a few people gaming the system? No offense, I’m genuinely asking how you’ve come to the conclusion this is a fact.

    Let’s look at this logically, why would someone choose to stay home and collect a 3rd of what they were making? Most states 1. Max out at 300-350 per week. 2. Who do you know that can live comfortably on $1200 a month? 3. All the additional federal assistance is gone. There’s no incentive to stay home unless you have some massive savings.

  95. Anonymous

    It's the ego of some. I work with a woman like that. Well, I DID until she decided NOT to come to work because I, a manager in a different department, has been receiving some positive attention (this woman told me she felt sorry for me and I was completely incapable of doing my job and leaves me stickie notes to correct me. She is NOT in my department, but knows it all).

    I'd be glad this woman left. People like this irk me to no end.

  96. Emily Nicholson

    I find it best to keep an employee apprised of the expectations and when they are not performing to standard. A simple OJT and FIX action can help to correct behaviours. It sounds as though the employee is the one with an attitude. Often times, we forget that even in an office where we work, we are all "customers" of each other; when I ask my staff a question, I become their customer. Respect to one another IS a performance standard!

  97. Kimberly Lyn

    I'm the OP...I've read all your feedback. It seems I did not provide all the info needed because many assumed that I had NEVER coached this person. When I say I kept my thoughts to myself, that was me saying I don't knit pick my employees, but rather address situations when I see a pattern. I don't get onto them when I see they simply had a bad day, or something at home is bugging them and it affected their day, When someone is already feeling blue, they don' t need their manager to make them feel worse. However, She had been warned about ONE certain procedure she was violating. (that had been in place for at least 6 years). For all intents and purposes she was good at her primary job and we told her the same, frequently, through reviews, raises and casual conversations, thank you gift cards, we raised her pay when gas prices increased because we did want her to stay. etc. However, She was coached by me and the doctor after 2-3 observations of a certain behavior. When she did it again, the coaching was not a surprise, nor an ambush. I opened the conversation by simply asking her why she did it again, when she knew better. I have been in leadership positions for over 35 years. I understand a coaching goes better when it's a conversation rather than a down load. Her answer was basically a non answer because she knew she had violated the policy again. And trust me, what we asked her to do was not rocket science....we simply asked her to follow procedure for requesting time off. That's it. Her repeated violations were causing scheduling issues and catching us short staffed because the communication chain was being circumvented. Therefore no one knew to schedule back up help etc. That's it...her violations of the procedures were a direct hit to positive patient care. She knew the procedure and had been following it but then she didn't like it any more and just violated it (she had 28 days out at that point) (she has a son in the military so every time he was home on leave, we let her off to be with him...for those of you wondering why so many days)

    For those who think I'm judgmental about the work force. I promise you, no judgment.. I live in a town of less than 15,000. All of the businesses are suffering because staff shortages. Prior to Covid staffing was not an issue...business owners have had direct conversations with prior employees, as have we, and are being told directly the UI and the tax credits are better than the jobs they had. The Chic filet here is now offering the $15 hr. but still can't get employees to come in. We only have a few large employers here, and some medical offices. Every business in town has a help wanted sign and have raised their hourly pay and are in some cases offering sign on bonuses. Our own, excellent employee doesn't come in any more. She has a child and the credits and other benefits she receives outweigh her need to come to work. Again no judgement. My observation is based on what ACTUAL people have ACTUALLY told me about their reasons.
    BTW as an employer our office is consistently above market analysis in pay scale.
    Members of the Chamber of Commerce are collecting the same data. Our Gov. Kay Ivey has written to the President to ask the incentives to be stopped because its killing our businesses across the state. Statement of choosing to stay at home is not my opinion it's what the data and people are telling us.
    I hope I've shed more light on the situation. Thank you to those who supported me with positive feedback and coaching to what I could do better even with limited information. To those who jumped to very dark conclusions, I'd like to give some positive feedback. Not all managers or businesses treat their employees as commodities or profit centers. Some business really do want a positive, inclusive, warm environment. Sometimes, shit happens and there was no prior plan or motive for it...it just happens. The best thing leaders can do is clean up the mess and try to do better. Please do not jump too quickly to assume because someone is in a leadership position they are automatically wrong or should have known better. Leaders are human beings too.

    For those of you who said this employee really didn't want to work. You are spot on. I've since found out that she too has applied for all the assistance benefits afforded. She has 9 children (some of her own and some are step children)....she has done the math and it works for her to stay home. (this from her own mouth to another one of our employees....)

  98. Anonymous

    FYI, if she quits she can't collect UI. Also, those people who ARE collecting UI are doing so to pay for housing, food, and utilities, not to play the stock market. You think she's going to get the money she needs to survive on Public Assistance?

    But hey, she's gotten into your head so you carry her around with you. That helps.

  99. Kimberly Lyn

    Thanks for your support.

  100. Anonymous

    I interviewed a woman for a job that had 9 children. It wasn't the multiple children that deterred me, it was that when I asked her why she wanted the role (love accounting, good at math, would fit in, or any other LOGICAL reason), she replied she wanted the job for a bank loan and then planned to quit.

    Really? Spend time training her for nothing????!!

    She didn't want to work on bit (another said the same: UE was ending and after 18m, she was reluctant to return to work)

  101. Anonymous

    I agree with your assessment of what good leaders should be. I hope you can see how your initial post, although understandably charged with emotion, comes off as harsh and does not paint you as the person you know to be who cares about employees and the work.

    Covid has been a life-changing situation for so many of us. Many of us have been stressed to hold down jobs while teaching our kids. Many of us have lost our jobs. Many of us have inventoried ourselves and reprioritized our lives. Many of us have learned new skills so we can move into new positions. Many of us have decided to stay home with our children instead of returning to the workforce. Many of us have decided to take a different path in our lives and not return to the work we did before.

    And yes, some have decided that they would rather not work if they don’t have to. Personally I cannot imagine being a mother of 9 and working a full time job, unless another parent stayed at home. Running that household alone must be exhausting.

    You and I have very different beliefs on what is killing businesses and the role of the government, and though I may disagree, I appreciate your perspective.

  102. rgstaffing@bellsouth.net

    For those of you who do not know what it is like to run a medical practice, you cannot possibly imagine what it is like to have some of these people in your employ. I don't understand posters who take this so personally when she was a disrespectful employee who refused to follow procedures causing havoc in a medical practice. The practice manager was very patient and probably better for everyone that she quit. One of those good riddance situations...If you cannot follow the rules of a business, go work somewhere else or don't work outside your home.

  103. Anonymous

    ditto! I am a PCP...Oh my gosh, the DRAMA in some of our offices. Kudos to anyone who is a medical office manager!

  104. Anonymous

    i stand by my original comments, in which I stated that I felt that everyone was "overreading" what you shared. I too live in a semi rural area..and everything YOU SAID is spot on. I wish you could manage my office!

  105. Anonymous

    Well most jobs are horrible and boring. I've hated every job I've ever had and stayed working in them for years. I've even been a top performer and I got zero satisfaction from that. I am 100% miserable but I go to work because I have to. And I try to do it well even though I feel like work is making me increasingly depressed. All that to say I still think the way we worship work and our insistence that it has to be hard and difficult is not sustainable. Better working conditions = happier employees. Maybe the procedure needs to be changed/updated/or automated.

  106. Anonymous

    Your reply made me sad, both for you and for your employers. Speaking from my own experience, I felt the way you did--I was unhappy and I was making the people around me unhappy--sort of an endless bad feedback loop. I did a lot of soul-searching and reassessing, and eventually came to understand that some of the things I thought were important were me being on auto-pilot. I ended up revising my priorities and finding a different way to earn a living that makes me happy 90% of the time and even more productive. I hope for your sake you have the time/ability/freedom to do that too.

  107. Anonymous

    I strongly suggest therapy and maybe anti-depressants. I'd hate to have an employee on my team who hated being there.

  108. rgstaffing@bellsouth.net

    As a medical recruiter, I understand. However, accept her resignation and call a medical staffing firm in your area and back fill her job. You do not need to be bullied by an employee and the tail does not need to wag the dog. Either run an ad or call a recruiter. I am very familiar with this behavior and get busy trying to find an appreciative employee who will do you proud. They are out there-ps you are lucky that she gave you a notice.

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