Update: Should I serve as a reference?

29 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 13,2022 at 11:38PM UTC

   The companies I work for do not allow us to serve as a reference. If it is in writing not too, don’t do it.

2. AnonymousOctober 14,2022 at 3:59AM UTC

   It's a very common restriction that companies do not allow current employees to provide references, only confirm employment dates/title. Many actually use an external vendor for requests like this. The rule exists to protect the company from legal liability arising out of statements made (or omitted) in the reference. Most commonly this is a lawsuit for defamation, but there are a host of other potential legal claims, even when the statements are truthful. It's just safer not to do it.

   I'm curious why you would want to serve as a reference for an employee who "overstated" his/her skills to begin with. It sounds like the role isn't a good fit *because* the employee provided misleading claims about skills/experience in the hiring process. I'm not saying that this employee has no redeeming qualities, I'm just surprised by how magnanimous you're being to someone whose deliberate deception resulted in them being incapable of performing their job.

   You've said that your reference would be "limited to the true strengths," but how would you respond to questions where honesty would reflect poorly on the person? Are you comfortable with providing a misleading reference and any professional/reputational risk from essentially vouching for this person? If not, are you comfortable with your reference actually harming this person's candidacy?

   Hiring managers do not expect to talk to candidate's current company, let alone their current manager. I wouldn't have offered to be a reference to begin with, but it feels like HR has given you an out here, and I'd definitely be taking it.

3. AnonymousOctober 15,2022 at 1:12PM UTC

   Sounds like you have a legitimate out. Don’t provide the reference.

4. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netOctober 16,2022 at 12:24PM UTC

   This is a no brainer. It is company policy to only verify employment. Many companies have this policy. However, are you able to say if she is eligible for rehire?

5. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 1:07PM UTC

   I don't think you should serve as a reference for the employee, even though you realize that the job role is not a good fit for the employee. The best thing to do is just verify employment.

6. GirlBossanova934974October 16,2022 at 1:41PM UTC

   You should not be a reference for 2 reasons. 1) Your HR Department has a policy which does not allow it 2) You know that this employee has been put on a Performance Improvement Program and that this employee overstated their skillsets. A future employer surely would be able to sense that you are not exactly giving this candidate a ringing endorsement. References are there to highlight good employees and their record of achievement.

7. KerryOctober 16,2022 at 1:57PM UTC

   I would not give a reference unless it was a great one.

   also when did this “no reference” policy thing start here in US?? My future employer asked for current supervisor reference and she did not tell me about their”no reference “ policy. I asked her for a reference and confirmed her phone and email and she NEVER said anything. Had I known I would not have asked her. She now KNEW I was wanting to leave my current job with no offer letter from future employer. It put me in a tenuous position. Fortunately I have a good work record at my current employer. But I like having the upper hand, I give my employer adequate notice usually at least 2 weeks. Here I will have to give 30 days notice. Or they won’t pay out my PTO or give me a good reference. Laughable since they don’t give references, only verification of employment.

8. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 3:17PM UTC

   My company switched to a "no reference" policy about 7-8 years ago.

9. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 2:07PM UTC

   That's tough.
   You sound like a good hearted person who truly wants to help someone move on. And you also recognize that this employee has genuine good strengths. Speaking as someone who was furloughed 4 years ago, it was critical for me to have peer and supervisory references in my line of work. One of my physician peers Was particularly supportive about my situation and provided me with a written letter of reference. And that letter of reference opened doors for me and helped me to move forward during a time when our industry Has really struggled.. My peer wrote a letter addressing my positive qualities et cetera and simply dated the letter about one month before I actually lost my job. This was his workaround...This might be how you decide to work around this situation too. because it sounds like you genuinely want to help and honestly, I think you should. Losing one's job is difficult enough but when you can't even secure sound written references, it makes it so hard to move on

10. Feyi IlesanmiOctober 16,2022 at 2:32PM UTC

    Its okay to offer to be a reference; that can happen sometime down the line once the dust settles. The most important thing is to determine if you will be willing to rehire the staff given a different opportunity. If so, you can leave a word of mouth with hiring managers for the right roles. If contacted, state the strengths you can attest to. If asked about other skills, state that you do not have experience working with the candidate in those areas.

    Its also okay to rescind the offer especially as HR has clearly stated office policy. There is nothing private in the documented world; word ultimately gets out. Do not put your integrity, your career or your present job on the line for someone with performance evaluation issues.

11. AyianOctober 16,2022 at 2:39PM UTC

    The company's policy is in line with US laws regarding defamation and protecting the company from liability. If someone contacts HR, it is common not to receive any information beyond employment verification.

    You are not the company. If it is not in your employee handbook not to give a reference, then you are free to do so without expectation of risk. You would be acting as a professional reference, not an employment verification

12. Shelby COctober 16,2022 at 2:46PM UTC

    While you work for them, you're a representative of the company. Therefore, you must follow their policies.

13. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 3:15PM UTC

    I would recommend double checking with HR if as a manager, you are allowed to be a reference for former employees or not. A lot of companies have recently implemented "no reference" policies (aside from confirmation of employment dates) to minimize lawsuits/etc. If the policy is you aren't allowed to do this and you do it anyway and get caught, there may be repercussions for you.

14. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 3:20PM UTC

    As a hiring manager, if a candidate provided a reference who was their previous manager who had put the them on a PIP and terminated them - I would consider it odd that the candidate had even made this suggestion, and I'd probably not value the reference at all because I'd feel like it was just done because the manager in question felt guilty about terminating the employee in the first place.

15. Teri Anne ConradOctober 16,2022 at 5:57PM UTC

    Could you maybe write a letter highlighting their skills and include the dates the employee worked for you?

16. NepetaOctober 16,2022 at 8:23PM UTC

    That sounds like a reference. Risky.

17. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 6:00PM UTC

    HR is only allowed by law to confirm or deny employment, title, and dates of employment.

    Personal references are completely separate. UNLESS your employer has a separate policy against that. If you feel the employee is worth your endorsement and could succeed in a different company and role, then yes, be the personal reference if not against your company's policy.

18. Valerie RiegerOctober 17,2022 at 4:32PM UTC

    HR is ADVISED to only confirm dates of employment and position held. We are not constrained by most laws about what can and cannot be shared, except that what is shared must be truthful.

19. Janet ParkhurstOctober 16,2022 at 8:01PM UTC

    It is the LAW (and has been forever) that no person can give a reference other than verifying the exact dates the person worked for the company, and perhaps, what the salary was. In other words, just facts. Nothing personal. I know--why do people bother with references? A waste of time!

20. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 10:11PM UTC

    Employment verification and references are not the same thing. There is no law against giving a reference.

21. Valerie RiegerOctober 17,2022 at 4:29PM UTC

    There is no federal employment law that precludes providing references or employment verifications. I've seen some state laws that provide specifics about what employers may or may not say regarding previous employees.

    I've was taught at the beginning of my HR career that it is best practices that HR be the only group to manage employment verifications, only confirming dates of employment and position held.

    I have cautioned managers and supervisors about what information they provide when someone reaches out to them. I have, on occasion, helped managers craft an objective letter of reference. We've provided that letter in hard copy format to the employee at the time of their termination and added a copy to their file just in case what we said is ever called into question.

22. AnonymousOctober 17,2022 at 4:59PM UTC

    Employment verification is not the same thing as a reference. Employment verifications usually goes through HR to check if the candidate was an employee of the company. A reference is by someone they worked with at the company.

23. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 8:14PM UTC

    Several things just hit me as not quite right with your post: How long had the employee been there?

    You say you tried to 'manage up' the employee which we all know a PIP is really not about that....it's about managing out, beating down the employee so much that they leave so the company won't have to pay unemployment. A PIP, btw, is an extremely antiquated form of 'management' style. So you are a leader that has been with the company for over a decade and don't understand about references or know your own companies policy? How?

    If this is in the USA, which I can only assume it is considering the forum, it sounds like you need some remedial training. Maybe you work at a tiny company? Regardless medium to large companies have had a zero tolerance policy for DECADES regarding giving references due to liability. That is why the WORKNUMBER is used. Dates of employment and sometimes a company will ask for salary verification---some states are not even allowing that now and should not.

    It is very critical you keep to your company standard as you open not only your company, but yourself for a lawsuit. Did you know if any company uses a 3rd party to do a background check and you start spouting off or let's say you are asked and don't say much (which is just as telling) the applicant CAN ask for a copy of that background report and WILL receive it by law. Then ALL comments, if it's a good background person, will be in writing for all to see. In essense, that former employee you managed out could get your fired for breaking company policy. All with that report. Poetic, right?!!

    Even if you say hardly anything, that will be on there too. HOw do I know this? I worked in backgrounds for SWA and we would finish the background, but it was mostly done by a 3rd party. Yes, the boss that said, "Let me tell you about Bonnie, she was always late and we think she stole." was there in writing if the applicant was declined and requested it. And yes, they took that report to their former employer. Is that what you want?

    My question is why is it so important for you to attempt to be 100%, in your mind, to tell all about this employee? I mean someone could say about you, gosh she worked here 10 years and didn't even know our reference policy? You state some of her skills were overstated---but that may be just your opinion.

    In 2022, I had to burst your bubble, but you as a reference is not needed. This employee, I'm sure, can get many other references from peers or even on linked in, if needed. It's the norm today for a manager, if they are called, to say I'm sorry, per our policy, all verifications go through xyz. Most companies will never call a former manager because they know companies have a zero referral policy.

    So, leave this poor employee alone that you managed out and let them go on with their life happily at another company. You really think Bob that hires his friend Bill, that Bill is totally 100% qualified for the job. NO. Do you then go and report Bill to HR? I bet your don't. If not why?

    Either this is contrived or you are the poorest uninformed 'leader' I've read about in a long time.

24. AnonymousOctober 16,2022 at 10:09PM UTC

    You are combining three things here - a background check, employment verification and references.

25. AnonymousOctober 17,2022 at 4:57PM UTC

    Not all of what you said is correct. I am a manager for Human Resources and before my current company I was in a company of over a few thousand. Although we said in Human Resources we could not give a reference, those that wanted to in other departments were able to do so. Even when I left I had some of my peers as references within my department. It was their choice as they knew I wanted to move on, but they were happy to do it. In my current and previous organizations we did employment verifications at a company level, reference checks, and a background check. Both employment verifications and background checks were separate and not a part of the references. Employment verification was calling the past company for employment dates and was done by someone in HR. The background check was through a third party to check for education verification and criminal history. References were done by the recruiters.

    This kind of name calling is not productive. Yes, some companies do have policies on references. Not all do, even larger global ones. There are also still a lot of companies that do PIPs as part of a final warning as well. Yes, even larger global ones. And yes, if it is not a training or coaching program- we have had those too, it was part of the final warning. However, I have seen it be a success. It depends on multiple factors.

    I agree on one thing. Negative references can come back to haunt you. Never offer or be willing to give one unless it is positive. For everywhere I have worked it is the company hiring the individual doing the reference checks, but I would be careful about giving one if it is not positive. We usually ask for five and try to get in touch with three. A couple people may not respond or their information may have changed. Not responding does not mean anything to me as a hiring manager, but as a reference it could be a way out if they do not want to get in trouble and therefore do not want to respond.

26. AnonymousOctober 17,2022 at 12:53AM UTC

    I'd like to know if anyone ever stays with a company after being on a PIP and if one ever gets off of a PIP successfully?
    Does HR check references at all? A professional reference is not the same as a personal reference. If the employee was on a PIP, I'd question why one thinks they are helping the employee land a new gig when the intent was to pressure them out of the door.

27. AnonymousOctober 17,2022 at 3:46PM UTC

    I was on a PIP about 8 years ago. It was relatively early in my career and I hadn’t quite got the hang of office politics, which harmed my relationship with my manager, who wanted to terminate me. Fortunately our director intervened and put me on a PIP plan instead, and took on the task of mentoring me on soft skills. He also created a new role for me which resulted in my reporting to a different manager in his department. I am very fortunate he was our director, as that role ended up launching my career, which I love and have been successful in.

28. AnonymousOctober 17,2022 at 1:29PM UTC

    I agree with alot of what has been said , especially about the pip, when I managed I tried to “ manage up” before we ever got to a pip

    as far as a regency I would say for the last 15 years companies have frowned upon managers giving one and have for along only wanted to verify employment , if you decide to do it on your own make sure you dot say anything that could be perceived as negative if they can’t for. Another job and find out your reference is the reason that would not be good for you As I believe the company and you could be held liable ,

    I gave a couple redeemed in my time but they were all good if I did t have anything good to say I didn’t give a reference

29. G C HesseOctober 19,2022 at 12:05AM UTC

    If I were that person I would not ask You or anyone from that company to do a reference.

    Look at what you wrote. Do you believe this person doesn't realize that.

    My POV.