My boss is head of the company.

Anonymous

November 15,2021 at 1:15AM UTC

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My boss is head of the company. I have 5 incidents of being treated wrongly, unfairly and am considering calling a meeting with them and HR. It’s been over a year of this and. I know as a leader and from my research, this is bullying at work. I want to say “I want to stay here with the company, but I’m not sure how if this continues”. I’d like to either start over and move forward or I can leave if that’s what you want and would request a severance to do that. I will speak positively and leave on good terms.” What do you think of that conversation, is it a bad idea?

The incidents (if that helps for advice) are they say things in 1:1 that are a constant drip of targeting and creating insecurity and telling me I’m not good enough. They are personal attacks. Although, I am crushing it at work with goals and make significant contributions to business success. My team loves me and we are highly productive and that’s noted in all KPIs

They will also make me feel like this is all my imagination when I respectfully try to have dialogue. The topics are unfounded and affecting my mental health. What should I do?

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AnonymousNovember 15,2021 at 1:30AM UTC
Bad idea! HR are company loyal.
AnonymousNovember 15,2021 at 1:39AM UTC
Document dates, times and what was said. Be as explicit as possible....inform all involved and HR with a copy and then offer a meeting to discuss solutions and a path forward. That's about all you can do.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistNovember 15,2021 at 6:10AM UTC
I guess my question is why would you want to work for a company that treats you so poorly?
AnonymousNovember 15,2021 at 2:56PM UTC
Such a great point. I think this targets my own tolerance, self-esteem, or feeling like I should continue to forgive/forget because I don't like to quit or feel like I quit when there was any chance to work it out. You helped me to push forward to what I know is the better decision. thank you!
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistNovember 15,2021 at 5:33PM UTC
Please please please realize you have a right to be happy and fulfilled in your job. You have a right to not be bullied.
Also please understand that, unless you plan on making taking that kind of abuse your permanent career, there is no other outcome other than leaving.
Putting yourself and your happiness first is not losing. It is not being a quitter. It is you standing up for yourself and saying I'm important to me and I don't need to take this sh*t anymore.
The good news for you is that the job market is EXPLODING right now. Update that resume, make sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date and start looking!
Why in the world would you want to stay with such a crapshow of an organization one single second longer than you have to.
GOOD LUCK!!!
KatNovember 15,2021 at 8:17AM UTC
Start looking elsewhere. Things are not going to change because there's no reason for them to-you've put up with for a year already. Time to find a company that will value your skills and treat you better. Your performance shows you can succeed, so finding a new job won't be too hard.
NancyNovember 15,2021 at 2:08PM UTC
I asked for severance for the same reason. I didn’t get it …they said “she is a key person and we cant lose her.” Yet I was humiliated !?! They didn’t want to pay out. I wasted two months on a “neutral party” to investigate. The well documented incident. They basically said “we weren’t directing it at her”. I’m actively looking for new opportunities internal in another division and external. I won’t stay.
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 1:37PM UTC
Honestly, if you are being bullied from the top, I wouldn't want to stay. If you have valid claims, I would definitely go to HR with that. It would help if there were witnesses, but understand why they wouldn't be. I also wonder, though, if you aren't the only one being bullied. We had this going on a few years ago at former employer and through an in depth investigation, turns out there were many targets and no one felt comfortable speaking up on their own until the first claim was made.
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 1:41PM UTC
Remember that HR is not there to protect you. They are there to protect the interests of your company. Filing a complaint can lead to retaliation, similarly disparaging comments. Revealing that you are unhappy shows your cards. Best to look in private is my thinking.
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 1:47PM UTC
You sound a bit naive for having made it higher up in a company. Being treated “wrongly” and “unfairly” at work is just part of life. It happens everywhere.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 7:15AM UTC
But does that make it right? I think not. As women in the workplace we need to edify and teach, not gaslight and bully. If we never stand up for ourselves, then we are part of the problem. I left a job I loved because I refused to support or stand for bullying. Not of me or anyone.
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 2:01PM UTC
The reality is a bit of both you and your boss aren't aligning. You are both triggered by each other for any numberof reasons. It's no going to change appreciably. If you stay, fall in love with your choice and who your boss is. If you chose to go. Fall in love with that. You are at choice.
AnonymousNovember 17,2021 at 2:08AM UTC
Maybe boss is not a trigger but constant reminder that things are never going to be in alignment.
Something's off... an adjustment or bold move is necessary to make it so. You might make a good fit in a different role? It could just be your role not your boss
Ladyboss737918November 16,2021 at 2:04PM UTC
HR is there to protect the company. They're only going to agree to a severance if you agree not to sue them, and you'd have to have a documented case and lawyer lined up.
They are not going to change, particularly if you've brought this up before, and particularly if you've already notified the highest people in the company.
If you haven't documented already, I would highly recommend doing so. Witnesses are better (as stated in other posts) but if you don't have that, keep documentation of what happened. All the details - where, when, who was there, what was said as closely as it was said.
Make your exit plan. Quietly look for your next position. Don't tell anyone you work with. Quietly look for an employment lawyer and see if you have a case. If you don't have a case, I wouldn't suggest trying for a severance - from what that company sounds like, you won't get one.
If you're company is at-will and there's no company policy on how much notification you have to give them, keep in mind you don't have to give 2 weeks, that's just a courtesy. (You could give them two weeks and then they could fire you if they are at will - if the situation is really bad.)
References aren't technically a thing anymore. The only thing a potential employer can legally check at a previous company is your title, pay, and re-hire status. You might give a potential hiring manager previous coworkers or bosses to talk to - but you don't actually have to do that, and most companies aren't going to look into it. (They will however search you on the web, linkedin, and social media.)
You've brought this up, more than once, it hasn't been addressed. It's time to stop investing in them more than they are investing in you. Toxic leadership and toxic companies thrive on employees who value them more than they value the employee. You are worth more than the treatment they are giving you.
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 2:58PM UTC
> The only thing a potential employer can legally check at a previous company is your title, pay, and re-hire status.
This is wrong. It's perfectly legal for a company to say whatever the hell they want, so long as it's true or not presented as fact.
Many employers have policies (read: not law) against disclosing any more than the bare minimum because they don't want to open themselves up to litigation. Lawsuits are tedious, time consuming, and any asshole off the street can file one.
Similarly, you should not be presenting things as fact when they're clearly outside your scope.
Karen GongawareNovember 16,2021 at 2:10PM UTC
It is called gaslighting. Oh and bullying just for giggles. Why haven't you spoken up before? Did you document the incidents? When being told your were not good enough did you reply, "that's odd. I crushed my goals and significantly contributed to the success of the business by (fill in the blank). So where exactly am I incompetent?" FACTS speak. Cite facts about your work. Document all encounters and make copies of all emails. Remove all emotion from encounters and show no feelings at all. As for your conversation with HR, why are you trying to placate them? Simple tell them in an email that you want the personal attacks (and give the examples) to stop or you will be leaving the company. Be assertive and stand your ground. Gaslighting is how people make others feel wrong. Be strong and challenge.
BeaBoss645203November 16,2021 at 2:24PM UTC
Please document everything but understand if you decide to get HR involved it will go worse for you fast. HR does not work for the employees. They are there to protect the company. I have been at places and have actually been bullied....not a pleasant thing. Please also understand that it could be the 1st step of getting rid of you. If you actually cannot take anymore, then start looking asap in private. If you are making enough that you are willing to stay in such an environment then please do talk to them, but in a honest and open manner. If you start by saying that you would mover on if necessary and ask for severance, if they are as bad as you say, you could be going home that day or week . Most states are at will employers . Best of Luck
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 2:49PM UTC
> HR does not work for the employees. They are there to protect the company
These?are?not?mutually?exclusive?
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 5:15PM UTC
Those question marks were supposed to be claps lol. I totally expected fgb to accept emojis
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 7:11AM UTC
Totally great advice. I didn't tell a soul I was looking for a job, didn't tell anyone what was happening (tho they witnessed it first hand). My boss made up lies and put them in a performance improvement plan and I wasn't even at work -- I was on a medical LOA. Everything she said was either a bald faced lie or a twisted version of events. She instilled fear in employees, and lied to senior leaders. I got enough severance to get me totally out of debt. I drafted a complaint to the EEOC. As soon as my attorney brought that up, they settled. Sad thing is, ... she is still there, still wreaking havoc on others, and only pretending to live the mission. Having played the race card once in todays circumstances, I'm quite sure the company is afraid to do anything about her.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 7:12AM UTC
I also rebutted EVERYTHING in the performance improvement plan.
Jennifer KaufmanNovember 16,2021 at 3:22PM UTC
Document, but at the same time start looking for another job. Your boss is a gaslighter, and HR is not your friend. In fact, I was gaslighted at a previous job by my immediate boss and the head of HR. I quit and the company no longer exists.
Michelle SangilloNovember 16,2021 at 3:54PM UTC
I suggest a professional coach. Situations like you describe can take a huge toll on a person, emotionally and professionally (robbing you of your confidence). Having a professional to collaborate with on your next steps will likely lead to a better outcome for you. Relying on your own self talk, and friends who love you, can be counter-productive. A professional will help you see how you got where you are now, why you've stayed, and how you can take the lesson with you to a much better opportunity.
Jodie JohnsonNovember 16,2021 at 3:54PM UTC
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Unfortunately, workplace bullying has become an epidemic. Ladies, we can do something about it. There's power in numbers. The dignityatworkact.org is a website you can go to and get info to empower yourself and take steps to get legislation passed to protect yourself & others. I'm planning to talk more about it here on fgb soon. Hugs xx
Leader757947November 16,2021 at 3:58PM UTC
I wouldn't waste my breath and just start searching. You are worth so much more than to be bullied. And while what Anonymous said about it being common in the work place is 100% accurate, you also don't have to take it. Find somewhere that does appreciated you, you'll crush it even more when you're not constantly looking over your shoulder.
Kerry RoperNovember 16,2021 at 4:15PM UTC
I would record these verbally abusive one on ones, if you can't get a witness to attest.
Do you really want to stay there with a person like this as the "leader"? I would start looking elsewhere now, as you will be eventually worn down, bc if this person is securely in that position (is it family? can they possibly be let go?), they obviously think this behavior is okay or even part of the "culture". It sickens me. Over the years, I have witnessed lots of bullying, and for whatever reason, I have only been a target one time. I've also learned that some people think they can get away with it AS LONG AS the bullied person allows it. Telling a coworker that they are "not good enough"??? What kind of management skill is that? It sounds overly personal, vague and stupid, frankly.
Liz MilneNovember 16,2021 at 6:24PM UTC
There's a massive disconnect between 'crushing it' and being told 'you're not good enough'...
The fact that this is mentioned in 1 to 1s makes me wonder if your team is doing well *despite* your leadership rather than because of it (I don't mean to sound harsh, bear with me!) and whether management is trying to guide you/ your team towards doing even better? I've seen, with young people especially, where meeting expectations (a bare minimum) is seen as doing really well (going over and above). Are you absolutely certain you're not confusing minimum expectations with high-target goals?
However! It certainly does sound like they are not treating you right, even if the fault is partly yours: no one deserves to be gaslit, and they absolutely should have a respectful conversation, even if it is saying: 'You think you are doing better than you actually are' - because then at least you will all be on the same playing field and can take it from there?
AnonymousNovember 16,2021 at 11:42PM UTC
Many people have said that HR is not your friend, and I totally agree! Please don't go into an HR meeting making statements like, "I want to stay here with the company, but I'm not sure how if this continues," unless you're willing to follow through on threats like this. You'll first get labeled as being insubordinate and then you'll get fired for not being a cultural fit, especially if you're boss is criticizing you in 1:1 as you claim. Might be time to start looking for something new. Best of luck.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 7:04AM UTC
Totally agree. HR's job is to protect the company, not the employee.
ILHAM ALAMNovember 17,2021 at 1:32AM UTC
Please document these instances in detail including time, place, what was said (in as exact words as possible). Also, document why you disagree with your boss’s comments such as your performance reviews and sales reports indicating otherwise.
Like others here, I also echo that start looking for a new job ASAP. At least you can leave and get a positive reference from your current workplace, to help facilitate you getting a new job.
AnonymousNovember 17,2021 at 7:14PM UTC
Can you share some examples of the nature of these personal attacks? Im wonder if they are valid feedback, but given extremely poorly.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 7:01AM UTC
Mine was retaliation for not supporting my boss's claims that her boss (also mine thru matrix leadership) was racially discriminating. It was pure lies. My boss tried to get out of me everything I talked to the facility hired attorney and when she asked me what I said I told her that her asking made me uncomfortable and that I told the truth. She then began treating me differently. Didn't speak to me when in the past we met at least a 1/2 dozen times a day. She ignored me but talked to staff - pulled staff in to triangulate, refused to acknowledge my PTO requests and did not respond to my medical leave communication with her. What I found out in this process is that it is perfectly fine for your boss to mistreat you as long as she is not attacking you in one of the protected categories. Makes for a horribly toxic work environment.
AnonymousNovember 18,2021 at 2:39PM UTC
Are these posts from the original poster? Are these direct quotes from your manager? I’m struggling to follow.
Without those details, I can offer general insight. We can all work on building our resilience. People will always say things about us. Some will like us and some won’t. We can’t change that or wish it away. The issue is if the conflict rises to a level of harassment / punishable offense that you want to fight. If it doesnt, document and ignore until such time you are able
To find something else. That’s what I can offer without the specifics of each scenario.
AnonymousNovember 18,2021 at 8:01PM UTC
It did, but hard to prove... colleagues can create some crazy messes from jealousy
AnonDecember 16,2021 at 3:29AM UTC
Proving is always the issue! In the same boat :(
AnonymousNovember 30,2021 at 7:13AM UTC
I recently went thru a similar situation only I wasn't new. My boss was a total ladder climber and didn't care who she snuffed out on her way to the top. I did exactly what you said -- requested severance and offered my willingness to leave quietly in exchange for that compensation. I was successful and it is my hope that they are taking a different approach these days. I actually filed for FMLA due to emotional stress. I say go for it. Protect yourself. I got an attorney to put some power behind my claims. She took on my case pro bono and when I was successful, her cut of the $$ was 33%. She graciously dropped that to 25%. Bosses like this need to be stopped. It creates a strong sense of fear -- retaliation, bullying, narcissism -- It needs to stop somewhere~~
AnonDecember 13,2021 at 6:21PM UTC
Hi! I'm in a similar situation with 4 years of dealing with my boss and a team who excluded me. My FMLA is about to end - I'm still mentally depressed and can't bring myself to find another job. HR came back and tried to blame me but mentioned they could look into severance. I'm now looking to go down that path since I can't return to my team - I have no idea what I should see for severance. Can you please advice? Also if comfortable, can you please share your attorney's info? Thank you.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 6:57AM UTC
I'm late to respond, but with severance, shoot for the moon. All they can do is say no or counter.
AnonymousJanuary 17,2022 at 5:29PM UTC
Flag on the play. Are you someone who is involved in the situation posted by the OP? If so, this thread is for the OP to gather perspective. You’re welcome to gather perspective via your own post.