Is this ageism?

60 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 3:56PM UTC

   OP here.

   My boss is 50 but thinks she 30 something and only seems to relate to millennials or women who look exactly like her ( blond).

2. MichelleOctober 18,2021 at 4:10PM UTC

   So your boss was basically saying, “they need to actually look 50, not look like I do because I look so young”? Are you just saying you’re self conscious of your silver hair? If that’s the case, you should just know that silver hair is beautiful, as is aging gracefully and not trying too hard to seem much younger.

3. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 11:27PM UTC

   Pretty much

4. GingerintheKitchenOctober 19,2021 at 4:05AM UTC

   So your boss has a youthful attitude and vibrant youthful appearance that you feel is inappropriate due to her being more your age of 50, but you are excluded from conversation because she relates to the more yourful staff and you do not?

   Yes, this is ageism
   100%

   But the guilty party appears to be you. You judge your boss for not looking her age, and for relating to those outside of her age bracket, where I see a woman who is able to communicate across age barriers, and get her staff motivated and engaged. What your opinion of her appearance is (tries to look too young) is no more your business than what anyone thinks about your appearance. What matters is how YOU feel when you look in the mirror, and if by the time you hit the mid century mark, you are still struggling with self image then it is only YOU who can fix things. Once you are happy and accepting with what looks back at you in the mirror every day, your attractiveness to others grows exponentially as well. There is a huge reason many women hit their prime in their 40s and 50s, because it takes so brutally long to gain that self love and confidence. Gray hair is literally the a chic and on trend hair color at the moment (far moreso than the cookie cutter that can be blond), so get your house in order, smile big at the world and know your value and worth inside and out and stop judging others for what you are so hurt by being judged on. Just stop . As women in the workace we have so much bullshit to deal with surrounding our appearance, the last people who should be stoking those flames are other women. So knock it off. Your boss knows what you think about her, and I bet you that feeds a bit of the treatment you are picking up on stop being catty and set a goddamned example for the next generation showing them graceful and kind behavior in the workplace, and judging a woman on her looks is insulting, no matter if they are "conventionally youthful, or weathered " no one would make the male leaders' looks a topic of conversation. If a male boss gets along well with the millennials in the office, that is also not a topic . So it shouldn't be for your boss either. Smh

5. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 12:16PM UTC

   I don’t care how youthful she looks. I never said that. It was her catty remark that hurt me.

6. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 12:34PM UTC

   FYI, read the posts. She suffers from affinity bias in which she prefers subordinates who look or act like her. I am the one being judged or excluded for not being a clone.

   I believe in lifting all women. That’s why this hurts.

7. MichelleOctober 18,2021 at 4:06PM UTC

   Who is the “her” in the comment your boss made? your boss was saying, “make sure they look actually 50, not like [OP]” ? Or was your boss referring to herself?
   Depending on the exact wording of the “around the block” comment, that person might have been saying “oh ok, our campaign people need to look like they’ve been around the block”, not that you look like you’ve been around the block.
   Are you actually 50? Or are you just the eldest and just happen to have gray hair? They might think you’re 50 because of the gray hair but be remarking that you look younger.

8. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 11:31PM UTC

   I am the oldest in this department, over 50.

   I fully understand the context of the comment…she is very hesitant when I am on camera for work. She is very “age conscious.” Only women who fit her view of “youthful” are welcome.

9. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 4:15PM UTC

   I'm so sorry. People can be so insensitive sometimes. I would bring up your exclusion to meetings and calls. Make sure you use the words consistently EXCLUDED.

   As for the comments on age. It was inappropriate and should be brought to HRs attention along with the exclusion pattern.

10. Jacquelyn LloydOctober 18,2021 at 5:03PM UTC

    You feel crushed because of your thoughts about what was said, not because of the words. They may have been talking about you - they may not have been. Who cares? Try on a new thought. "I make gray hair look good!" Believe it! Notice how your feelings about the situation change with this new thought. You will act from a place of confidence and dignity instead of hurt and fear. You will handle the conversation of being left off the invite list from a place of personal power instead of anxiety and shame. I promise you will get a better result if you act from a positive emotion. Take care.

11. Lesa Edwards, Career Coach & Master Resume WriterOctober 18,2021 at 5:43PM UTC

    Yes, Jacquelyn! "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." You get to decide how you want to feel every day at work - you can choose not to be at the effect of other people.

12. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 5:29PM UTC

    isnt it funny how negative comments really stick with us, but positive ones are fleeting?
    I would be MORE concerned with being left out of the meeting...

13. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 6:07PM UTC

    Oh I am livid about that. I have been excluded from meetings I should be in, left off emails, had my review left to last and rescheduled (she still hasn’t done it). When I try to talk to her, she’s multitasking or looking at her phone or emails then tells me I have only few minutes. She only talks to me when she has to.

14. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 1:25PM UTC

    So been there!

15. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 3:31PM UTC

    It kind of sounds like she is trying to make you want to quit. I don't know if it would help to have a 1x1 with her and explain that you love your job and you are good at it but being left out of meetings is getting in the way of doing your job well.

16. Jackie RukaOctober 18,2021 at 5:45PM UTC

    Seems off and confusing… are they doing a campaign?
    And what does it have to do with you?
    How you feel about your age and hair color is your business not theirs. Sounds like you are taking things personally or out of context?
    As for grey hair, it’s the new hottest rage despite age.
    Decide what you want to celebrate about yourself. I bet there is more to you than age, hair color and job functions.

    They are lucky to have you!

17. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 6:17PM UTC

    It is a campaign but the comment came when they “forgot” (again) to include me in the leadership meetings. No one includes me in anything. I am an afterthought. In fact, one Director said my job was like a black hold and “no one knows what you do.” It was because I have been isolated and excluded from being part of the conversation but it hurt like hell. I am the only one who is in this role and their focus is not on my customers (internal), but theirs.

    But I feel like she thinks I am too old and “out of touch.” She keeps telling me to confer with a younger colleague like he’s an expert but he knows less than me.

    I am so anxious I haven’t slept.

18. Jen EOctober 18,2021 at 8:38PM UTC

    I don’t think it’s ageism but it does sound like you are unhappy there and feel left out. You should talk to your boss about it and also raise your profile a bit - ask when everyone’s next in the office, blow your own trumpet about your work so ppl know why you do! Good luck!

19. Ann B.October 20,2021 at 3:29PM UTC

    It seems like ageism to me. I would suggest that you prepare some responses for whenever someone says something like that. I'm no expert on communication but maybe something along the lines of, "do you think (younger colleague) would have more experience with this than I do?"

20. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 11:23PM UTC

    I’m about 15 years younger than you, but I also have a role that’s separate from what other people do. I’m left out too. I told people at work that my super power is being invisible.

21. MichelleOctober 18,2021 at 5:46PM UTC

    I understand. Well, I’m sure I’ll get some “bad feminist!” feedback here, but she sounds at best immature, and at worst, delusional. She may very well think that women her age who don’t dye their hair, etc look old, but just because she thinks she looks that good doesn’t mean she actually does, nor does it mean that other 50somethings actually look “old”. Regardless, it’s shallow, and her complimenting herself in that way in a business discussion wasn’t necessary and makes her seem fairly silly. Since it’s really more of her complimenting herself as 50something, as opposed to saying something about someone else’s appearance, it probably would not rise to the level of ageism in HR’s definition, but if the remarks start to take on a more directly critical tone, that will be a different situation. Unfortunately there’s all kinds of tacky and unattractive behavior that doesn’t technically break any rules, but I would bet money that no one really enjoys someone (of any gender) who compares their own appearance to that of others and finds themselves the winner. It’s very cringe.

22. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 6:12PM UTC

    Thank you! She has a high opinion of herself and the female colleagues she cherishes all look like her. All blond hair and most are in their 20s or 30s (a couple are older but all dress super young). I tend to dress professionally for the office, like nice slacks or dresses, in case I have to meet with executives.

23. AnonymousOctober 18,2021 at 11:25PM UTC

    Thank you!

    I know other people in the company see my worth and that seems to kill her.

24. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 6:54AM UTC

    I'm in marketing and yes, we have to make sure we're using the correct pictures for our demographic and audience. I'm more interested to hear what kind of campaign and what this other person meant by around the block.

    I am also left out of many meetings and conversations due to my department and role. That part has nothing to do with you personally. I would recommend talking to your boss on ways to feel included in your team, department, company etc.

25. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 12:07PM UTC

    What they meant was 50 years olds who look older, rougher around the edges. And by contrasting herself and the other manager, with me on the line, like they were laughing about how old other 50 year olds are, they were being ageist

26. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 4:28PM UTC

    Thanks for the additional info. I totally agree with you, even more so reading your other responses. Do you love your job? Do you love your boss? Your company?

    What I'm getting at is that if you love what you do, you can do elsewhere. Find a company who you can feel comfortable with.

27. RowanOctober 19,2021 at 12:28PM UTC

    Just regards your first point, I am due to experience twice weekly team meetings with my team who will all be based in an office out of NYC whilst I will be in London, as the sole UK based colleague. If anyone has tips on how to ensure I can best remain engaged and feel fully involved in such a situation it would be much appreciated.

28. Kirsten BunchOctober 19,2021 at 3:24PM UTC

    Ouch. One of the tricks I use a lot as a DEI coach is curiosity and like you’re clueless. What do you mean? How does.50 year old look? By the way, I also have gray hair and love love love it.

29. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 3:53PM UTC

    It sounds like not a good fit. Maybe there's ageism or "lookism". You don't sound happy, engaged or fulfilled but I don't know you. I do want everyone to feel good about themselves and their work.

30. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 7:08AM UTC

    I love my job and what I do. I love working with other teams. It’s my own department that’s making me frustrated. I am cast away as if I don’t exist but bitched at repeatedly when something isn’t right. When I defend myself against condescending remarks, I get told “you are too defensive and lack emotional intelligence.”

    Um…have you looked at the tone? Not just me, others copied see it.

    Today I had to do something and it triggered a unintended notification to someone else. Rather than just say “hey, what’s this?” This person sends a snotty note and copied her boss. I write bank nicely. Her boss (my boss’ work husband) sends another snotty response and copied this other team member as an “expert.”

    I am in the same system at the same time he’s sending it watching his so called expert do exactly the same thing that I did to trigger alerts. And this woman refuses to listen to me too. I advised her to wait for clarification on something I knew wasn’t needed before entering a job. I have told her repeatedly with this end customer we share that we need to be in the same meetings. She gets rude with me and tells me she is “too busy.” That was last week. Today she enters it. I shake my head. Anyway I just decide to deal with what I need for my job separately. I talk to the stakeholder about what she was entering and whether it was needed. He agreed that it wasn’t a good idea. So I emailed her and cc:’d him that she can delete it. She still hasn’t done so.

    And I am the one who is going to hear about it because she’s part of the sorority.

31. AnonymousOctober 19,2021 at 6:21PM UTC

    If I were you I would try to show them how cool I am and how many things I know. For e.g. prepare a mood board for the campaign they were talking about - bring a great idea and when you're done ask your boss for a meeting with everyone because you want to present them your idea too. You know - when someone seems to ignore you, show off what he's losing! ;)

32. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 12:06AM UTC

    I have been doing something similar.

    It’s funny, today I was feeling really low and one of my “end users” noticed I was “quiet”. Once we started talking I felt so energized because this person kept telling me they were impressed with my organizational skills.

33. Ter MinOctober 20,2021 at 1:05PM UTC

    All of these comments have a point, but I do realize as a 30-something, I'm a little more vocal about things that makes me uncomfortable. When they make off hand comments you can cover your indignation with a pointed joke: e.g. "I might have been around a block or two-- but I don't look that bad, do i?" Which shows you HEARD that comment, and whether you're correct in your assumptions about it being directed towards you, they may have to think again before uttering such flippant things. You yourself may be in a demographic that they are targeting so I think you should be offer an idea from a consumer's point of view. It keeps you engaged and for your marketing strategists to keep in mind that while their best bet is to generalize to reach the most people possible, sometimes the things they want to highlight as a feature of their demographic might seem more off-putting than inviting! Work on your self- confidence, whatever works for you, and make your presence known! If they aren't supportive of this, then yes, it may be time for you to take your skills elsewhere. Much love from East Coast

34. Paulla Fetzek, MSEdOctober 20,2021 at 1:12PM UTC

    I am so very sorry you're depressed. Our society is still too horribly driven by older = undesirable ideology. Which is hilarious when you realize we are ALL getting older. If we're lucky that is.

    I'd love to ask these people on the call a few questions. "So tell me, what does a 50-something look like? Do they have a special physical marker so you can spot them out? A sign on their forehead that says - HEY! I'm 50-SOMETHING! Do they have a specific number of wrinkles and/or age spots?

    I task anyone who makes ageist appearance comments to sit at a table with a random group of people and see just how accurate their guess is to age. I have a strong feeling many would fail miserably.

    Take me for instance. As it happens, I'm 54. I am not boasting - but as it also happens, I'm guessed to be in my mid-40's. So... Does this mean I wouldn't make the cut for pictures because I don't "look" old enough - even though I am?

    I'm sorry, this hit a sore spot for me. Because I honestly am treated differently when people think I'm in my 40s - to when people know I'm in my 50s. Which makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.

    When I turned 50, two things became very apparent to me:
    1) 50 is NOTHING. There's so much more life to go.
    2) I've spent so much of my life on things that JUST DON'T MATTER.

    Since then, I've started to celebrate aging. Can't tell you how many times someone has said, "You can't do that at your age..." or "Such-and-such is for young people..."

    I just laugh.

    And when I get razzed for being older - especially by really young people, I often say: "You should HOPE to be so lucky to reach this age. Because the alternative is to die."

35. JudikingOctober 20,2021 at 1:27PM UTC

    First, your boss's a management position would appear to be a poor choice made by someone. I'm sure you're aware of that. Anyone who would make a stupid comment like that out loud has been sorely misplaced. Of course, maybe she just made a stupid mistake. Every boss is occasionally thoughtless because they're human, just like the rest of us. If you like the job, overlook it or consider that she doesn't think you would be offended because she doesn't think of you as old. Personally, I'm 74 and still working and no one offends me, in fact they come to me with problems because of my experience. Your ability to do your job and handle your responsibilities are the only important issues. Other people's opinions are their problem. Keep yourself professional, don't get pulled down in "high school" garbage.

36. Rachelle DeMunckOctober 20,2021 at 1:50PM UTC

    Everyone on my mom's side of the family starts to gray early. I started to gray in college, and had a pronounced head of gray in my late 30s. My uncle was 90% gray in his 20s.

    Despite my current profile pic, I've stopped dyeing my hair. Now at 50, I am more gray than brunette and I love it.

37. Cecile Marie GirouxOctober 20,2021 at 1:55PM UTC

    I guess I would have asked for clarification. What does a fifty something look like…to your boss? Gray hair, wrinkled, confused w bifocals- or bright, fit, passionate individual zesting about their second phase of their life, be it a new career, hobby, or philanthropic pursuit- or a mix- Ths is classically one of those broad brush statements that can be interpreted in many ways.

38. VMOctober 20,2021 at 2:30PM UTC

    As a professionally trained smart ass I would have asked ‘how old do I look?’

39. Wendy GreenbergOctober 20,2021 at 2:44PM UTC

    Ageism? Listen to yourself for a minute. "I have grey hair because I have an allergy". You have grey hair because you've lived long enough to earn it. Four years older that everyone else is not a bad, or big deal. Fifty isn't a bad thing, it's just a different thing. Learn to like yourself wherever you are and then learn to represent.

40. Rachelle DeMunckOctober 20,2021 at 7:21PM UTC

    Or because of genetics!
    My maternal uncle was completely gray by 20.
    I was half gray by 30.
    My mom said that she never knew her father with any hair color other than pure white! He originally had a head of stark black hair, but grayed completely before she was born.

41. Karen GongawareOctober 20,2021 at 3:04PM UTC

    Huh, I am the oldest female in the building, gray hair, no makeup, and all. And I don't give two shits what others think as I am damn good at what I do. Confidence is knowing you have worth and that worth isn't tied up into fears about being old or looking old. Your boss is fishing for compliments on her looks, and subtly putting others down (or blatantly lol). And you are only older by 4 (FOUR) years? I have 15 to 20 on the few other female workers here. Get over the fear and stop putting yourself down and justifying. None of their damn business why you have gray hair! Go forth and believe in yourself! and as to ageism, nope. You are the one projecting ageism on yourself.

42. Leader135412October 20,2021 at 3:15PM UTC

    If you let them, they will treat you like a doormat. If you let them.

43. Leader556780October 20,2021 at 3:58PM UTC

    Some great answers here, yes there is ageism and yes you are the victim. Did you know Biden made it easier to sue for age discrimination. Look good, stay healthy, put your crown on straight, keep your head high.

44. Sabrina RahmanOctober 20,2021 at 5:42PM UTC

    I would be tempted to use sarcasm with the insensitive coworkers. But I know that would get me into trouble.

    I tend to agree with a commenter and ask “Oh, how so?”

    Either you look too young or too old. Let them be clear about why they felt it appropriate to involve your appearance and indirectly insult you.

45. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 6:33PM UTC

    Speak up.

46. Regina BrownOctober 20,2021 at 6:59PM UTC

    I love conversations like these...I simply state "I am not old...I am seasoned, marinated, wise and yes...experienced. What you are trying to attain, I've already achieved...in other words...I have lived".

47. melissa_h2osOctober 20,2021 at 11:02PM UTC

    I wish I could send you a 100 loves!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

48. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 10:46PM UTC

    Collect Images of 50 somethings. JLo, Salma Hayak, Halle Berry, Sandra Bullock, Tina Fey, Keanu Reeves, Denzel Washington, Robert Downey Jr... you get the idea. And then say - Okay, here's what 50something looks like.

    3 years ago, due to no fault on anyone's part, I couldn't connect with my colorist. I had a good inch of salt and pepper roots that sparkled in the right light. I decided to stop coloring. My hair is gorgeous and I get tons of compliments about the color. I will not go back.

    Note: all of the men I've interviewed with have the same hair color as I do.

49. AnonymousOctober 20,2021 at 11:10PM UTC

    Wonderful message!!!

    I'm so afraid of letting the grey take over. It's insane for me and I'm glad more women are embracing reality. Maybe next year!

    PS: sexism is as challenging as ageism and lookism too!

50. AnonymousOctober 21,2021 at 1:38PM UTC

    It's okay that you're not ready. You do it in your own time. Or don't. You have that choice.

51. AnonymousOctober 22,2021 at 12:02AM UTC

    Go for it!

52. Leader757947October 21,2021 at 1:27PM UTC

    Agreed. If gray hair is acceptable on men, 100% it should be on women. At the ripe age of 41 I rock my gray and won't let anyone shame me for it. I am seeing more and more women follow this healthy trend. Tide is changing, friends.

53. colleenOctober 22,2021 at 12:00AM UTC

    Amen!!!!

    So many men are considered “distinguished” because they are gray. Yet women with gray hair face discrimination.

54. AnonymousOctober 21,2021 at 2:12AM UTC

    Yes it is.

55. Rosa GoesOctober 21,2021 at 4:01AM UTC

    Sorry to hear. I recommend finding another company that will accept you as you are and all the talent you can bring. Good luck to you!

56. BethBOctober 21,2021 at 1:30PM UTC

    What you are describing doesn’t rise to ageism. You haven’t described that not being in the office is related to your age, especially since you are only the oldest by 4 years. There are all kinds of reasons you weren’t in the office. Maybe someone screwed up and forgot. Maybe there are reasons you don’t see that make you less than likeable. And if your job handles a different customer they may simply not see you as a member of the same team.
    Instead of taking the remark about 50 year olds looking like 50 year olds personally, why didn’t you fully participate in the meeting? You had valuable input…let’s not stereotype what we think a 50 year old looks like.
    If you aren’t seen as part of the team, what can you do to change that? Do you use “I”words or “we” words? Do you use language that shows you are a team player?
    As far as your look. You may have gray hair. Rock it. Do you have a great current haircut? Do you dress like it is 1999 or 2021? Is your look outdated? Do you act like an “old lady?”
    Before assuming this is ageism or a problem with the company, look at yourself and the way you present yourself.

57. AnonymousOctober 21,2021 at 4:24PM UTC

    You assume I haven’t already thought this through. I have been wracking my brain for 2 years trying to figure out how to connect with this group.

    I am courteous with others. I respond to their emails and calls.

    What I am not getting is the support I need to thrive in my role within this department. I can’t even get my boss to do my review which is overdue. I know she did others. I asked her three relevant questions this morning none of which she has answered.

    She hasn’t even been in the office with me in three weeks.

    I am a manager and so done with not getting respect other managers do. My boss told me to ask new employee about something. Sent him an email and zero response. His manager is the most cliquey of the bunch.

58. AnonymousOctober 22,2021 at 8:53AM UTC

    Honestly it sounds to me like The other manager has some insecurities about looking old themselves and took the opportunity to build herself up. I don’t know that that’s why you weren’t invited. Perhaps they don’t feel connected to you for whatever reason perhaps lack of common ground maybe the different customer thing like you said. If they don’t talk to you on a regular basis that could be why. Don’t let it get you down, I know it’s hard not to, once my boss had pizza in the back for everyone and no one bothered to even ask if I minded running the cash registers while they went back and ate and had a pizza party, they just all went back there and t without me, when they finished they were like oh ya there’s pizza back there, I quit within the week. I hope you have a different outcome. If you do customer service perhaps a work from home job could be a better fit, I know there’s a company called arise that I’ve heard pays well that you can contract with, start your own call center or work for someone else, that company is work from home, another
    Company called sitel also does work from home jobs I’m not as familiar with it But I think they have a more traditional structure as far as managers and stuff goes vs independent contractors like arise. I hope you find something that makes you happy whether it be the company you work for realizing your value or you moving to a different company. Whatever you end up doing I wish you the best of luck.

59. AnonymousOctober 22,2021 at 11:25AM UTC

    Yesterday at lunch time I was in the office. The second highest boss was there. I was busy working, looked up, it was lunch time. I go to the cafeteria to pick food up and Lo and behold, every other employee in our department was there, almost done their lunches. No one thought to invite me to join, though they knew I was there.

60. AnonymousOctober 22,2021 at 6:12PM UTC

    Hugs to you. I am feeling left out at my work, too. Has nothing to do with my age. I am currently looking for another job and I think you should, too. You are not being fulfilled and there's no reason to waste your life away at a company where most don't appreciate you