My new hire isn’t working out and oversold their skills - what would you do?

120 Comments

1. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 21,2022 at 12:51AM UTC

   I should think the expectation would be that they would know how to access email and their Outlook calendar Day One.

   I can't imagine someone needing a week of training on that - nevermind that training hadn't stuck.

   I may sound harsh but you need to cut this person lose before they waste more of your time. Fire them and hire someone who can actually help you.

2. AnonymousSeptember 22,2022 at 6:06PM UTC

   Yeah tech expectations are a little obnoxious honestly. I’m tired of everyone thinking everyone should be on the same level. I worked for a company that used outdated computers and outdated programs. This cut down on cost but, led to unnecessary errors. Is it the worker’s fault for staying in jobs with outdated technology. Not every workplace uses outlook, Microsoft l., etc. I been switching back and forth Mac and pc with different places and it’s a bit frustrating. I had to use a chrome laptop once and that was just weird.

   My advice is we shouldn’t just assume everyone is at the same place with tech. If we spot this in the beginning the better because we can take the right measurements to train them.

3. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 22,2022 at 6:33PM UTC

   Except that this person lied about their experience.

   And if you don't know how to access Outlook email and calendar, if you say you're proficient on a computer, showing someone once - in addition to the above-mentioned written training - should be more than enough.

   If someone needs a week of training - and still doesn't get it - they need to be fired.

   A. They lied about their experience. B. The OP needs someone to help them - not someone to waste their time.

4. AnonymousSeptember 22,2022 at 8:32PM UTC

   Well who hired him?… and how many people applied???
   Why wasn’t an issue like this isn’t sniffed out in the hiring process! This is why I don’t have faith that companies are choosing the right candidates! It’s a misstep on the hiring committee!

5. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 22,2022 at 10:24PM UTC

   What, specifically, does who hired them or how many people applied have to do with someone lying on their resume and during their interview and the need to fire them?

   Which is what this post and comment thread is about.

6. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 2:33PM UTC

   It should be figured out in the hiring process if their experience is as up to snuff as they say it is. It would have saved time in the long run. Reading people is an important skill.

7. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:21PM UTC

   I don't think it's obnoxious to expect people to know how to navigate emails and have basic tech knowledge especially when their skills are not matching up to what they claimed. It's one thing if the person was upfront and stated they are not tech savvy then the company can't get upset when the individual they hired doesn't know how to navigate through emails. Also it's mentioned in the post that it's not a highly technical role so sounds like there isn't an expectation to know complicated tech like switching between a MAC/PC. Also it sounds like they have tried to train the individual and they're still not retaining the information. I have on my resume that I have experience in Microsoft suites and if I state during interviews that I know how to use it for basic functions along with my references checking out, then the hiring company is going to believe it.

8. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 2:41PM UTC

   It really depends on industries. There’s a lot of specializing going on these days… Being a fast learner isn’t enough. Some companies have their own software, hardware even. A lot of people are shifting back and forth through multiple platforms. Tech burnout can happen! I’ve seen brilliant engineers in the Silicon Valley complain about the functions of different equipment and the way different machines communicate with each other in ways that go against being friendly to the user. It’s kind of sad because such workers worked on groundbreaking tech that helped elevate us to where we are now.

9. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 23,2022 at 5:03PM UTC

   No. It doesn't depend on industries. Microsoft Outlook is the same no matter what industry you're in.

10. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 6:29PM UTC

    I was talking tech in general vs just outlook. If I put I have outlook experience on my resume it makes a difference if that experience is current vs if I used outlook at a job 5 or 10 years ago. There have been progressive changes and people who haven’t used it year to year aren’t keeping up so yes it actually makes a difference!!!!!!

11. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 5:35AM UTC

    Except no. I have a Outlook circa 2008 at the latest, possibly as early as 2004 on one computer I use and the newest Windows 11 version on my laptop. They are essentially the exact same thing. The graphics might be a bit different but certainly not different enough that it would preclude someone from being able to navigate Outlook.

    And if they needed a refresher, one hour should have done it. Not a week of training that didn't even sink in.

    She lied and is not picking up the training. She needs to be cut lose.

12. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 6:20AM UTC

    Speak for your own experience. As many posts have pointed out in addition to the differences people have different learning styles. I’m unsure if it’s a full lie or if the person used it in the past and is out of practice on it. Not everyone has specialized to these programs in the same way. If you live long enough and experience any sort of cognitive decline you may change your tune.

    When I was still in single digits, I went to a school that had the latest computers. This was at a time where a lot of workplaces didn’t even have computers. I remember getting frustrated having to constantly explain the same thing to teens and adults. Everyone doesn’t pick up and retain software knowledge in the same way.

    it’s also sad that kids who come from households that don’t have the latest tech lost out during the pandemic. There is a huge invisible tech divide also holding people back.

13. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 7:28AM UTC

    I'm not speaking from my own experience - I'm speaking from the original post. This person lied about their experience. In addition to lying about their experience, the training and written training materials provided have not brought them up to speed.

    This person was hired to help the OP but does not have the skills to do so. The OP needs to hire someone who will provide her the professional help she needs and won't waste her time.

    Why do you seem to feel it's ok to lie on your resume and during an interview?

14. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 3:10PM UTC

    You just spoke about your personal experience using outlook. The years, the type of operating system.

15. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 7:02PM UTC

    It is not my experience that Microsoft Outlook does not differ greatly between different versions. That is a fact.

    You didn't answer my question. Why do you seem to feel it's ok to lie on your resume and during an interview?

16. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 10:28PM UTC

    I don’t know if it’s a flat out lie or not. You are rigid in thinking this…. Look at all the post since questioning varying learning styles. You are set on your experience but their are vast experiences on how people are using outlook in the workforce…. Believe what you want but their are companies that don’t have up to date systems and it is an issue for the worker. Some places have 1 computer that multiple workers use. They have set in instructions on using outlook for 1 or 2 tasks and workers aren’t using full functions. Not saying that all workers don’t know how to use outlook beyond the work task but, that depends on their past computer literacy. If such a worker puts they’ve used outlook on their resume technically they are not lying.

17. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 11:59PM UTC

    Being able to access emails and the calendar in Outlook are literally the most basic of skills. If you cannot do that and you said you were proficient in Outlook, you lied.

    It doesn't matter what version your company uses. It doesn't matter how many people may share a computer. None of those things change whether or not you know how to access emails or the calendar.

18. AnonymousSeptember 25,2022 at 2:12PM UTC

    I don’t see where the OP stated the applicant said they were “proficient” in outlook so that is an assumption. I can’t read more into it than what is stated. Saying that you’ve used it is different than say I used all the time… I’m really good at it.,etc. It is stated that the person had good references.

    I don’t think a reference would say this person has proficient Outlook skills if they were asked because clearly they don’t. So again I go back to the fact that if Outlook was a big part of the job. The hiring committee did not do a good job of figuring out that this person wasn’t a good fit and chose them over someone who could have been more proficient at what was needed.

    I can’t say it’s a lie if I don’t know what capacity they played up their skills.

    A manager at a past job hired someone who really played up their skills and degrees but had no basic computer skills. Myself and other supervisors tried to train this person and every time they would constantly interrupt us to talk about how experienced they were. Attitude got in the way of additional training. This person ended up making serious errors. Basically the manager said we should wait for this person to quit on their own. It did not take long. There is a huge issue if companies are not hiring smarter. The fact that people can play up their degrees and expertise and not actually have the computer knowledge that’s needed is something I’ve dealt with personally and hiring smarter should be taken in consideration whether it’s somehow testing for these skills if they are a crucial component than just taking someone’s word for it. Time has already been wasted on a bad hire because they simply didn’t make sure they had crucial computer skills. This can be a case for older generations who have exceptional degrees, exceptional references and what not.

19. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 25,2022 at 7:50PM UTC

    You don't have to be proficient in Outlook to be able to access emails and the calendar. It's literally the most basic thing you can do in Outlook.

    THE OP SAID:

    "My new hire isn’t working out and oversold their skills"

    and

    "However, their skills are not lining up with what they shared.

    For example, they don’t know how to access their email or calendar (Outlook) even after repeated coaching; they don’t know how to navigate most web-based platforms; and after a highly structured, detailed first few weeks of training, they haven’t retained any of the information or procedures and have to be shown fresh the next day."

    This person got hired because they lied about their skill level.

20. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 5:01AM UTC

    A lot of people can’t properly provide accurate information on their skill level and that’s why testing can come into play. There are people who can obtain PhDs but have disabilities that make it hard for them to carry out basic office functions. I can’t say if it was a lie or if the person was able to make good assessments about themselves. You may feel these tasks are easy but I’ve been seeing a trend of disabled people who don’t disclose their disabilities getting hired and causing such difficulties in the workplace. In a lot of cases it’s hard to tell if they really grasp their skill level to accurately portray them to others. Testing can help prevent issues if it was that crucial in the first place. If I told a college I got a 1600 on my SATs they wouldn’t just take my word for it. They would want proper records submitted.

21. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 9:10PM UTC

    I’m not sure what you mean because I know for a fact not all companies use Microsoft outlook! It’s not a workers fault if they didn’t use it with their previous job but, may have used it at a job before that. My needs for employment are mainly financial. I never thought I need to be employed so my Microsoft Outlook skills are up to date! I need you to clarify what you mean! If this person was hired over a person with outlook experience, you cannot guarantee that person is going to wait to be hired at a place where they’ll have to use outlook. If they have financial issues they may out of a dire need take a job where they don’t even use a computer!

22. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 5:37AM UTC

    I never said all companies use Microsoft Outlook. I said this person lied on their resume and during their interview, is not picking up the training and needs to be fired.

23. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 6:07AM UTC

    You said, “Microsoft Outlook is the same no matter what industry you're in.” Clarify this if not all industries use outlook than it’s not the same!

    You sound like you are taking your personal work experience and thinking it should apply for everyone’s experience.

24. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 7:23AM UTC

    Microsoft Outlook is the same if you work in Construction, it's the same if you work in Healthcare, it's the same if you work at an Accounting firm. Microsoft Outlook does not change depending on the industry you work it. It is the same.

25. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 3:08PM UTC

    o all construction workers are using outlook? It may look the same but all are not using it for job roles. That was my point.

    It is not good to assume that just because somewhat puts they have outlook experience on a resume that . They have it at a level that your company wants them to have it at. PERIOD! If it was a major criteria, there should have been some sort of testing. This person got hired based on this versus someone who had may of had a better skill level. Outlook is common so people put it on their resume to get their foot in the door. It doesn’t mean they can actually back up their skills.

    If it was that crucial more would have been done in the hiring process to check the skill level.

26. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistSeptember 24,2022 at 7:04PM UTC

    YOU SAID:

    "This person got hired based on this versus someone who had may of had a better skill level."

    This person got hired because they lied about their skill level.

27. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 3:49PM UTC

    I’ve worked at small companies in the past and had to push them to update their outdated tech platforms. Not being able to use basic Outlook functions is so absurd that my first thought was this company is in the same boat. But OP probably knows what tech they’re using so:

    -If you have up to date tech, then this person needs to go. Basic email and calendar use skills are pretty standard at this point and one training should be more than sufficient

    -If you’ve stuck this poor soul in front of a candy colored iMac, update your tech and try again

28. April ColemanSeptember 21,2022 at 2:04AM UTC

    Cut bait.

29. Shanna WilliamsSeptember 23,2022 at 2:03PM UTC

    I seriously was going to type the same thing! ?

30. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 2:43AM UTC

    Dealing with a bad hire myself. Definitely get them out of there before you waste more time. Good luck!

31. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 4:57AM UTC

    I think a frank 1:1 with HR present. Then a PIP that if they don't catch on they will be let go.

    If you don't think they have basic skills, then let them go this week.

32. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 1:03PM UTC

    Are the procedures on how to do the job documented? Available to print? That may help. However if it was me - I would document the issues (date/time/event) and draw up a counseling with the issue, expectations going forward, and timeline. Give the employee time to turn it around, though follow through.

    If you don't have HR do you have a lawyer that the business deals with? May need to be careful for wrongful termination/lawsuits.

33. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 1:39PM UTC

    The procedures and training are written out.
    I have documented the issues, and our HR manager is inclined to terminate. We are an at-will state, and as they aren’t performing the functions the position requires, so I believe legally we are covered.

34. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 6:33PM UTC

    Sounds like you have it handled! Good luck.

35. AnonymousSeptember 21,2022 at 5:01PM UTC

    There is already some great advice here. A couple of things I also wanted to add.

    Have you tried having them write the procedures out themselves or "teach you" how to do things? It sounds like things have been going on for a long time, but a lot of times people don't actually retain things when they are given a list of written procedures. Everyone learns differently, and the examples I gave lean into other ways of learning and retaining information. Note: not defending them, just giving some other things to consider.

    If you haven't been already, document everything. Also, since this position does work for the sales team, it would be good for a couple members of the sales team to sit down with this person. Pick a couple of sales people whose opinions you trust, and have them sit with the new hire. After they are done, have them report back to you and HR about their thoughts on the new hire.

    If multiple people are saying that the new hire isn't cut out for the job, it's better than just one person.

    Good luck, hopefully things work out!

36. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:21PM UTC

    I’ve been in the same situation. The person interviewed very well, references were glowing, but after the first week I knew something was off. He oversold his abilities and it wasn’t the right fit. I had to document everything and had many very frank discussions. After 6 months we let him go. Someone once told me, “Help them up, or help them out.” I tried helping him as long as I could but he wasn’t right for the job. He knew it as well but it doesn’t make it easy to fire someone.

37. AnonymousSeptember 25,2022 at 12:39PM UTC

    Did you really help him?

    You stated that you had to "document" what he was doing. My previous supervisor did the same thing to me BUT I also had documentation of the things I did to show her that she wasn't the only one doing things. I was the only African-American woman in my department and she would micromanage and nitpick everything I did. I almost went to HR on her but she left the job for another one. I then got a new supervisor and things got so much better for me. I have now been at my job for almost 3 years now!

38. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:24PM UTC

    Nothing worse than realizing you made a bad hire. It happens, some people interview well and then cannot deliver. My advice, especially if this is a probationary period, is to let them know it is not working out and getting someone else in there. I saw some people suggest a PIP but I don't know anyone who is on a PIP by week 3. That right there speaks to the need to let this person go. As others have suggested, document everything and have a meeting with your boss and HR on how you can mitigate this situation and let go or reallocate this person so you can hire someone who can actually help you.

39. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:26PM UTC

    You keeping on a bad hire (We all make bad hires.) is entirely on you.

    Let them go and move on. Why are you wasting your energy and time on someone who obviously needs hand holding. Are you their mother?

40. Afo Ogbeyalu KaluSeptember 23,2022 at 12:28PM UTC

    Great advice in this thread! The only thing that I'd add is that for positions in your company requiring typing/keystrokes speed and accuracy, word processing, or any software mastery, screen candidates with timed software proficiency tests. This should help you narrow down the field to those who at least "know the basics" . . .

41. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:30PM UTC

    There are all different kinds of learners. I like to ask new hires how best they learn and retain info. Often it means they are in the drivers seat and doing vs watching to best learn . And it may go slower as you allow them to take screen shots and make notes for next time for themselves. We also have used zoom or teams to record training sessions and then saved for them to review later. They can then freeze the recording and try the steps, or make more detailed notes with screen shots. We also try to document most processes and save these documents on a shared drive for team members which really helps with vacation coverage later. I also check in with new hires really regularly in case of overwhelm. I am always curious how they view things might be going vs how I see them as if they can be accountable if it is not going well, I can often work with them to get them where they need to be. If however, they think all is fine, or cannot see there is a gap , then I would discuss with

    HR as it is not likely things will work out.

42. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:34PM UTC

    Ive seen some great advice here and some horrible ones. You cannot do a PIP on a new hire!!

    PIPs are only to be used after you’ve delivered corrective actions and have a detailed plan of improvement.

    Similar to others here my suggestion is for you to connect with you HR team, and make a decision.

    In the meantime document all the training, retraining and coaching that has taken place and when appropriate part ways. Dont prolong the situation.

43. ValerieSeptember 23,2022 at 1:09PM UTC

    Check your local laws about small businesses - what applies to a company of 1,000 or more does not necessary apply to a company with 50 employees.

44. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 1:28PM UTC

    Doesn’t PIP stand for ‘performance improvement plan’? Isn’t that exactly what “corrective actions and a detailed plan of improvement” means?

45. Shanna WilliamsSeptember 26,2022 at 2:59PM UTC

    A PIP is used for an established employee that has started to slip. Not a new hire that hasn’t even completed the first 90 days.

46. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 12:52PM UTC

    I have many many years experience using outlook, but I have never had a job where it was not loaded on my desktop. Why do you use a web based version instead of having it on the desktop? Is it much different? I’m just wondering if something like this is making it more difficult? The desktop version is extremely user friendly and using a web based version might very well throw me off, too.

47. Stef FlorieSeptember 23,2022 at 12:53PM UTC

    As a former temp myself... if you need someone who can step in and ramp up quickly, someone from a temp agency might be the way to go, especially if they have been working as a temp for a while.

    Benefits of hiring through a staffing company:

    1) you don't have to give any reason for not bringing the person back. "they aren't working out/not a good fit" is more than enough reason. The staffing agency is there for you, not their employee.

    2) no benefits liability

    3) contract employees can be converted to W2 staff if it works out.

    Detriments:

    1) the hourly cost of the employee is much higher than the employee is earning (depending on the agency, the employee might get 25% or 50% of what you pay for them)

    2) some temp staff prefer short-term assignments.

48. AnonymousSeptember 25,2022 at 12:35PM UTC

    Temp agencies are a scam and they LIE to people. I would recommend only using them as a last resort.

49. Stef FlorieSeptember 25,2022 at 9:33PM UTC

    If you say so? I have been a temp, worked as a receptionist at a temp agency, and hired temps from staffing agencies. Yes, there are varying levels of honesty and competency in the staffing industry, but to claim that they are all bad tells me you got burned. I'm sorry that happened to you. People suck everywhere, but not all people suck.

50. Ladyboss501027September 23,2022 at 1:05PM UTC

    basic Internet usage is a requirement to for any job in any business in 2022. Even delivery people need to use tablets. If they don’t know this basic skill, let them go and be done with it. If it is at will employment you needn’t give any real reason, but inability to use email for someone in sales is a darned good reason :-)

51. ValerieSeptember 23,2022 at 1:08PM UTC

    Hire slow, fire fast.

52. Paula OlsonSeptember 23,2022 at 1:11PM UTC

    Sometimes it helps to do more than explain how to do a process. I've had people train me in databases that were written for a specific company or industry. I didn't have the big picture. Training consisted of telling me to "click here, click there" and it didn't help me connect what I was trying to accomplish to the work overall. As far as Outlook goes, companies don't ever train people on all of the features. I suggest You Tube videos that start from beginner tutorials.

53. Shelby CSeptember 23,2022 at 1:17PM UTC

    Normally, I say hire the personality and you can teach the right person anything, but you can't fix a bad attitude.... However, if this person does not possess what are elementary skills that children in elementary and middle school have, I would not take the time to teach them. I would move on.

54. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 1:32PM UTC

    Not to soon at all. I HATE firing people, it is the worst. It's awkward and sad and just sucks all around. From a founder's perspective, I want to share 2 things with you that I hope will help.

    1. Sometimes, letting someone go is a relief to both parties. I had a mentor tell me that if done well, a "break up" can be the best thing that ever happened to an employee. Your new hire knows they are messing up. If it's been addressed- they are most likely aware and realizes perhaps they are not the best fit themselves.
    2. Your boss/founder will be proud of you for recognizing that the new hire is not up to par and is costing the coming the invaluable time of finding someone more qualified. Even if they want to keep new hire on and offer training- you being upfront and honest about what you're seeing is going to shine through.
55. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 1:43PM UTC

    You know it could be a person that’s only interested in collecting unemployment. Maybe they accepted the job and are promptly trying to get terminated? That’s a far-fetched theory but one I’ve heard before.

    As one person said below, 6 weeks seems like a fair amount of time to assess someone’s ability. Especially just to operate Outlook or not.

    Amazon is always hiring. Don’t feel bad. They’ll find something else soon.

56. ABC DEFSeptember 23,2022 at 1:43PM UTC

    I have been that bad hire. Actually, I was very excited to join that company, as it was the opportunity to grow in a career that (modesty apart) has been brilliant. However, the company had very VERY squared and strict standards about how an email should be written, how a file should be downloaded, or how I should format an excel page.l or the words I need to use during a presentation. Also, I was required to know by heart their production chain, however I was not allowed to work “hands on” in a project, but just to shadow (aka look others working), do trainings, exams, and “classes” with colleagues who made me feel stupid. All my emails were missing something, all my reports were bad…My attention to detail started failing, and it was like they were expecting I will do bad, just to point what I did. I reached a moment were I asked them to let me go, and they didn’t want. 2 months later they fired me, but I was already having many proposals on my plate. Now, I work for a great company, and I do great. My boss is good, I was fully immerse in my projects since day 1 (well, after 1 week training), and I like the fact the company really expect me to yield results in my work (not only give back excel pages formatted in some way) My suggestion would be to check if your new hire is not feeling the same. There are personalities (like mine) that learn while doing (not with never ending classes). You can delegate tasks progressively so that person feels that his/her work is really needed (and not just a simulation). Hope it helps!

57. KellyW43September 23,2022 at 1:50PM UTC

    Maybe there's another position in the company that better suits them? That would be a way to go.

    Then work on hiring someone better suited for the position.

58. Shanna WilliamsSeptember 23,2022 at 2:08PM UTC

    I think you’re digging in a dry hole with this one. Basic computer skills should not have to be taught or reshown every day.

59. Milissa JacobsSeptember 23,2022 at 2:19PM UTC

    It's not too soon. I had to let a maintenance person go after 4 weeks. If a person doesn't/can't/won't do the job you've hired them for, it's best to cut them loose quickly and find perhaps one of your other candidates that can do the job.

60. Monica Alvarez-CunninghamSeptember 23,2022 at 2:34PM UTC

    I believe it is. It typically takes 3-6 months for someone to learn most new jobs. I would keep digging in to see if there’s something they need to help them succeed. Maybe there isn’t, but this seems way too soon.

61. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 2:35PM UTC

    I really need to add my two cents in here. I left a company because they openly discriminated towards Black women, women of a certain age and women that had a certain income bracket. I saw this after being at a company in the first six months. It was so bad that although it was 7 years ago I remember the person that was training me say "oh, you came back again". That was the turning point for me, to show and prove. I started out as an Account Executive and after 7 years I became a Senior Lead Recruiter who started earning $36K/Year and when I left I was earning $108K/Year. I catch on very quickly to racism and have a great spirit of discernment when others are laughing at me and not with me. But to say the least I had the last laugh. I immersed myself into this job so much that I went into the office on Saturdays and worked some days until 7 or 8:00 PM in the evening. My family missed out on time, but I made a great income year after year for my family. When I decided to leave after 7 years I had a serious strategy because guess what " I was so good and blessed at my job I earned the trust of the highest billing client in the entire company and my monthly gross margin was $750K each month and the client knew I was also being racially targeted and let me know that when I leave they will definitely taking all of their $750K billing to another company. I then joined another company as their Delivery Lead-Recruiter, and this is the main reason this subject made me join the conversation. I thought it was the correct company to eventually join after leaving a tenured company after 7 years. There were two teams, my direct manager was an African American man, and he was also not aware of his own race. There were two teams, and the other team was 90% White, and my team was 90% Black. I was not invited to meetings that leaders were supposed to attend, I noticed that the other leaders in Microsoft Teams were in meeting on several occasions and I was not invited to after their meetings they allowed the other team leader white male to give me instructions. This is when I decided that OMG, I left from the skillet to the frying pan. I started immediately looking for another Recruiting job and after applying to over 10-15 jobs each day just like before I was interviewing for 3-5 companies each day. They would change a procedure every day and not allow my team to adjust to the change that was given prior. This went on so bad that I knew either my team would start to leave, and I would have to do their jobs.

    There was no way I nor my team would retain changing procedures each day and remain at a company full of Recruiters and it seemed like no one really knew what they were doing. I was invited to a meeting at 4:30 in the evening on Teams and my former manager and his manager were invited, and I knew I was going to be terminated because I figured out how they move by working at my prior company. It was so awful in our conversation that the managers, manager said to me when I was asked if I had anything to say after them letting me know I was not catching on to their procedures after bring at a company for a month " I said I left a company after being there for 7 years and she turned around and said, I don't think you made the best Executive decision" . I was floored by her response. But I knew God had a ram in the bush for me. I recorded every conversation, which in my state can be used in court. My prior team members continued to call me after I was terminated and let me know that day after day someone else has put in their termination. I also received a call that the two individuals that were on the call with me terminated them. Yes, the manager and his manager were terminated. Just last week I received a call that they are now laying off every person that was earning $75K/Year to $98K/Year and guess 90% of them were African Americans. I prayed daily as I usually do on my knees physically and throughout the day because as a Christian this is what I do. I honestly treat others like I want to be treated and want my children's, children's to be treated. After being terminated I now have several Full-time jobs and will never have just one Full-time job ever again just because of how the second company treated me. If it's money involved I will do everything I know to learn the company, be an approachable team member but have one Full-time job I won't be caught like that anymore. Side note: I do have a husband that financially supports us very well, but I went to colleges and has learned my craft and want to earn my own money too. Maybe the person, employee above is just not trying hard enough because who does not know at this day and age know how to operate the simplest company technical skills and Microsoft Outlook is simple but there is also two way to do everything and either she is a slow learner, not trying hard enough, have too many things going on in her personal life to full concentrate, or just a slow learner or just simply lied on her resume and was not just honestly interview well and should have never been hired in the beginning.

62. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMESeptember 23,2022 at 3:26PM UTC

    Many applicants do oversell themselves. However, many companies are not transparent about job requirements or expections.

    In your posting, you focus on what the new hire is not doing correctly. Could it be that they are picking up on your negativity? You also mentioned that you do not have time for training -- was this discussed with management before you hired the new person?

    I wonder what would happen if you showed some confidence and encouraged them?

63. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 3:47PM UTC

    If use of Outlook is crucial to the job, is it clearly stated in the job description? If yes, is there any pre-employment test that you are using in order to determine the individual's current skill level? Is the company willing to pay for additional training? I find Outlook to be very easy to navigate...but I have seen many struggle with it.

64. JulieSeptember 23,2022 at 4:15PM UTC

    Have you given them written instructions? Or have you asked them to write down the procedures while training so they don’t have to be re-trained? They may have difficulty with remembering those kinds of procedural steps. Having a manual or written instructions could facilitate a person who needs repeated info to keep going.

65. Shanna WilliamsSeptember 23,2022 at 6:48PM UTC

    If I have to give you written instructions on how to use Outlook or send an email, then I have no need for you. Sorry if that sound harsh but it's the reality.

66. SueSeptember 25,2022 at 6:03AM UTC

    Someone that is good at their position and knows the inside and outs of their job and responsibilities, should be a good and patient teacher. I have not ever had a problem teaching and helping new assistants to succeed. I would rather have you ask me questions over and over instead of being afraid to come to me and having to fix mistakes. Invest the time and learn each other’s styles and you will get to mold the new person for a great future in her or his position.

    Final result will be less work for you in the long run and things running smoothly for the both of you.

67. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 4:33PM UTC

    Quit while you're ahead and haven't invested too much. If it's not a good fit, it's better to accept it now for both of you. Just last week, I had a meeting with a new employee who sounds a lot like yours. In a small office, it's imperative that each person be functioning after a week or two of training.

    Meet with the person, they may feel like it's not working either. Create a work plan for one week and she how she/he progresses. If it looks and feels like a lost cause, it probably is.

68. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 4:50PM UTC

    I hate to state the obvious, but you sound like a lousy trainer, and are off-putting in your attitude, just by how you talk here.
    I would be miserable and regret accepting that job too. This person has been made to feel unwanted.and knows by your attitude that nothing they do will ever please you. Yes, either let them go, or find a friendlier, better, more qualified trainer (one that isn't cold, rude, and inpatient).

69. AnonymousSeptember 30,2022 at 12:39AM UTC

    I agree with you. A negative and judgmental trainer can make a great employee appear incapable when the person is just uncomfortable.

70. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 5:54PM UTC

    Just a thought, this sounds like a short term memory issue maybe? Did they have covid recently? If so, this may be a temporary issue.

71. Valentina Huang, MBA, SHRM-CPSeptember 23,2022 at 6:39PM UTC

    Skills can be learned. Two weeks on the job is not a long time. Having been in a role for some time, folks forget what its like when starting in a new job. It takes time. Be patient. If they did well during the interview and everyone jived, that's a good sign. Have you spoke "with" the employee? Not talk at them about the issues you see. Ask them how they think they're doing? Ask how you can help them feel more comfortable and learn the tasks faster. 3 months is a fair amount of time for someone to learn a new task and even so, a lot of people still have to wing it. Its also possible that you're also making them nervous? Some people don't perform well under watchful eyes, especially when they are so new. Be kind to them. And hopefully once they are up to speed, they'll be able to partner with you and help with the work load.

72. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 8:05PM UTC

    I want to be generous to this person and say maybe they have a different learning style and need more or different training.
    But “they don’t know how to access their email or calendar”? That is truly the most basic of tech skills, and a fair minimum job requirement. Honestly my instinct is to ask if you may be risking an age discrimination complaint, because I can’t comprehend anyone under 45 even needing training on Outlook (I’m only slightly under that and was never trained on it, nor were my co worker contemporaries, and none of us had any issues)

73. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 8:18PM UTC

    People who use Apple computers/devices do not use Outlook for the most part. It's not the only email client out there, and from what I remember of older versions, it's not as good as many others. I am over 45 and have never been trained on Outlook, but I think I could learn it in a day or two because I am familiar with many other email clients, both web based and app based. You are making a lot of assumptions about this new hire, some of which are ageist.

74. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 8:58PM UTC

    Also, a lot of smaller companies use Google Suite instead of Outlook and other Microsoft programs. Even web-based vs desktop Microsoft programs have differences in features and how one interacts with the features. Some companies use Lotus Notes or other tools.

    If it hasn’t already been discussed, I would ask about the employee's experience with Outlook. Handle it gently, acknowledge they are having difficulties with it, ask if they’ve used it before. There’s info on the web about how to use it that you can point them to.

    As far as tasks, do they have a checklist they can walk through to guide them through what needs to be done?

    If you’ve done these things and they’re not progressing after an agreed-upon time, it seems clear that it’s not working out.

75. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 11:04PM UTC

    If all companies used Microsoft outlook, Microsoft would have a monopoly. I remember that being a concern in the 90s with the initial boom of Microsoft Windows… you made a good point and if Outlook is extremely crucial for certain companies they should be testing for proficiency than just taking someone’s word for it on their resume.

76. AnonymousSeptember 23,2022 at 8:13PM UTC

    I have a similar issue with someone I oversee but am not the direct supervisor. Unfortunately, myself and another trainer could tell within the first month that it was not a good fit. They had sold themselves as having worked as an admin before and was proficient in the Microsoft Suite. But we started having issues with their use of excel, which is crucial to our job, to where they didn't know how to do basic functions like SUM. We had a number of other issues, but the supervisor was hesitant to let them go because of how difficult it was just to get someone hired on. The supervisor made the frustrating decision to keep them on after the 90 day probation period, and it has now been a year. They are still having problems retaining information, and I am the one having to back check their progress. So I can understand the frustration when it comes to the lack of retention around pretty basic clerical/admin type tasks and computer skills.

    That being said, it can sometimes be an issue with the learning/training process. My admin needed a few different ways of being taught, including me doing the process first while they watched and took notes, then them doing it a number of times, and then having a written set of instructions to reference back. A few times they even took a video of me doing the process to watch the next few times. If you're only training in one way, you might want to ask them if there's another way they can be trained that would work better. It can be a challenge on your part to change how you're training but it can be helpful, both now with her and for future trainees that might need a different approach.

77. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 12:20AM UTC

    I learn quicker by doing and taking notes. I am very detail oriented and that is a plus in my position. I am also very tech savvy and I’m 55. I navigate fairly easily. My husband would be lost without me. I have a cousin who doesn’t comprehend technology and couldn’t figure out how to use her iPhone! Good luck with your new hire.

78. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 1:53AM UTC

    No it is not too soon to let them go. In fact, the sooner, the better because it's a waste and time and money to keep on waiting for a sunk cost to give you a return on investment when it never will.

    It is also not fair to you, your personal time and your loved ones outside of work, and the rest of the staff you work with to keep this person on.

    You mentioned that this person was given a lot of training, which rarely happens at many, many other companies and they still aren't getting it. To me this is showing that this person has no regard for anyone else's time and it will not be in your best interest or the best interest of your company to keep them on.

    Do not feel bad about letting them go either. It would be more unfair for you to keep them on than for you to get rid of them, because their attitude and behavior is parasitic.

79. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 4:11PM UTC

    I work in tech support so I deal with varying degrees of technical literacy. From the complete novice to someone that might be on the level with me or better. I would agree with everyone's suggestions of trying a different learning style to see if that works. I know for me, even when I'm training someone to work with me, I suggest they take notes. I then perform the function they would need to perform. I let them take their notes and am patient answering any questions they have as they write.

    Then when we get through the process I let them take the driver's seat and try. I've learned this has been the best method of having them try after me while being a guide on the side. Many times they have eureka moments and say "Oh that's where I'm missing it" and in some cases, I might learn a shorter way to do things myself (a true learner never stops learning and can learn from anyone). I would say try the new training style, whichever is chosen for the same amount of weeks as the original training was. You want to be fair so if they are ultimately let go you have precedence on why. Also, documentation is your friend, and document everything. That will be the proof that HR will need if the decision is made to terminate. Now you don't have to do any of this if you live in an at-will state. You could just let them go without reason and not violate law. But if you would like to do a last-ditch effort to see if they can catch on before you have to fire them then I would give it a try.

80. Rosa GoesSeptember 24,2022 at 5:47PM UTC

    Like others mentioned, two weeks is not enough time. I would give it the standard 90 days. You mentioned your day to day is 'extremely hectic' and 'difficult to have to sit with them and guide them'. If you are the designated trainer, you will need to carve out time to properly train them, you cannot be bothered with anything else. Have other employees take over your duties while your training, or have another employee be the designated trainer.

81. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 6:17PM UTC

    No!!
    Let them go asap. They are making you do more work than before they were hired. They were hired to make less work for you! You owe them nothing including additional training on the most basic tasks. Goodbye to them. and good luck to you.

82. AnonymousSeptember 24,2022 at 6:46PM UTC

    Some people just aren't a great fit. It sucks but cut them loose and find a better match.

83. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 1:30AM UTC

    I'm confused as to how many new hires you are referring to here?

84. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 5:19AM UTC

    It’s incredibly obvious it’s one person

85. AnonymousSeptember 27,2022 at 12:23AM UTC

    It's not incredibly obvious. It's somewhat confusing, when there's all these references to "them". Had to ask.

86. AnonymousSeptember 27,2022 at 6:34PM UTC

    They/them pronouns have always been used informally as singular pronouns when gender isn't known, or someone is being vague about it.
    It's now increasingly accepted as correct grammar as gender non-conforming folks gain broader social acceptance. So either you don't have a basic grasp of pronoun usage or you're trying to start something.

87. AnonymousSeptember 28,2022 at 3:54PM UTC

    I don’t think the commenter is trying to start something and you are being a bit harsh.
    She(I’m assuming) just wanted clarification. When I was in grade school, I was corrected in a paper when using they/them because the teacher felt it was confusing. Yes things have changed but, there’s always a curve and she didn’t mean anything negative about gender pronouns. If you really have a problem check out the comments that automatically started referring to the employee as she/her

88. AnonymousOctober 1,2022 at 1:19AM UTC

    Thanks for your comment!

89. AnonymousSeptember 28,2022 at 6:17PM UTC

    He or she. It is the only way to be clear. Better yet, just use the person’s name or alias.

90. AnonymousSeptember 30,2022 at 11:57PM UTC

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they

91. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netOctober 3,2022 at 6:07PM UTC

    it is very confusing.

92. AnonymousSeptember 30,2022 at 12:44AM UTC

    If this is how you speak to people, no wonder your training is not successful. Maybe this is your problem, not the new hire? Maybe your company uses some cheaper, less user friendly version of Microsoft. I hope the new hire finds a more supportive environment where the employer has legit training and invests in the proper software, not the freebie version.

93. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netOctober 3,2022 at 6:06PM UTC

    maybe just poor grammatical skills....

94. AnonymousOctober 1,2022 at 12:10AM UTC

    Hope this helps: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they

95. AnonymousOctober 1,2022 at 1:17AM UTC

    Thank you, but I did not ask for a dictionary definition.

96. DeniseSeptember 26,2022 at 12:59PM UTC

    After experiencing a similar situation in the past we now have candidates that we are considering come in for about 2 half days to work so we can witness their skills. There are many people that are not truthful on their resumes or during interviews that we had to start doing this in order to really assess their skill levels. With our similar employee we eventually let this person go. We tried with her for about 4 months but eventually had to come to terms that she was not fit or qualified for the role.

97. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 2:27PM UTC

    You make a good point! I just got a job in a different industry and I basically had to take the sort of class first that I would be instructing. I of course played up my skill level in the application but, can respect that they would want to actually see my capabilities first. I also think that some people can’t really give accurate assessments of their skill levels and it’s not like they are trying to lie or embellish.

98. AnonymousSeptember 30,2022 at 12:36AM UTC

    I don’t think I would agree to work for someone who didn’t extend a real offer, unless it was temp to perm and I don’t know anyone with experience who would agree to something like this.

99. Kelly HammerSeptember 30,2022 at 2:11PM UTC

    that is one way to solve that problem, I suspect if it is not an entry level position, your best candidates won’t agree to it for many reasons. They may have other jobs that would make this impossible, it paints a picture of a culture of condescension, and you are likely violating labor laws if they are not being paid.

100. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 3:38PM UTC

     I have always come to work for a new job with a new note book in my hands so I can take detailed notes , step by step when being shown what to do. This note taking and hands on actual doing , I believe, is the only way to properly learn new systems and methods .Sure you are still going to have questions, but by going back to your detailed notes, you will be able to walk yourself through the process more & more and eventually by repeating the tasks, you will be able to work efficiently. Perhaps you could suggest to this employee to bring in a large note book. And as you explain the job, ( hopefully 1 more time ) you are watching them take detailed notes. Best of luck

101. AnonymousSeptember 26,2022 at 5:08PM UTC

     Could you ask or appoint someone in a similar role to mentor and train this new person? They can shadow the mentor and take notes and ask questions on an as-needed basis..for the next 60-90 days. That is the fair approach to take, knowing you have given the person ample time and training/support to succeed in the role. If they are just not tech savvy enough for the role, then there is little you or anyone can do with that. Some people learn quickly and with little aids, just a video or by reading and many people learn "with hands on"-while they are doing tasks - repetitively too. And some have strong memories and are just very curious and learn by trial and error and some just don't have that ability or nature within them. But do offer mentoring/training.

102. Teresa PearsonSeptember 29,2022 at 4:02PM UTC

     This is very interesting. I have been in this situation and it was not that I oversold my skills but the job was more complex than stated. I learn quickly and I come from a Microsoft environment. When I got to the job, it was all Google. Which was a pretty big transition for me. I was used to using Web -ex and the company that I came from used Zoom. It was not a smooth transition for me and after two weeks I volunteered to quit. But I had a very patient Executive and trainer. They saw that I had the skills that was need but I just needed a class or two to sharpen my skills. I appreciated the fact that they were willing to invest in me because of my experience and talents.

     Now it is really unfair that your company does not have a better way to onboard and that in two weeks your new hire is supposed to magically be up to speed. Is she really incompetent or is she not working at the same speed that you are working? Is the new hire taking advantage of the tutorials that you hopefully provided to steer them in the right direction. Are they worth the investment of management's time and your time for training? If this person needs a little guidance and a few tutorials then it will be a win if they are provided some of the tools necessary to succeed in the role.

     Just my two cents!

103. Kelly HammerSeptember 30,2022 at 2:19PM UTC

     It sounds like you had a bad experience. I don’t believe two weeks is long enough for either side to get a true feel for the job or the candidate’s skills.

     Many small companies don’t have a formal training program. It may not be feasible if they don’t hire frequently. It also sounds like she only has one employee that reports to her and is the only person that does her job prior to hiring this person. A formal training program wouldn’t work for this scenario.

104. AnonymousOctober 4,2022 at 6:44PM UTC

     Yes formal training probably

     wouldn’t work which is why the should rethink their hiring process and not just take someone’s word on what skills they have! That’s their bad and if they want to learn from it they can test on the absolutely needed skills before hiring!

105. Candice DanielsOctober 4,2022 at 4:56PM UTC

     Well said!

106. Kelly HammerSeptember 30,2022 at 2:06PM UTC

     After reading this and some of the comments - including Teresa’s (the comment right below mine?), I believe that there is a communication issue.

     I have a corporate training background, create and develop training programs for large and small companies, and spent many years as an athletic coach for ages ranging from 5 - 70 for my masters athletes. As someone alluded to in a later comment, we all learn differently. Some are visual, some auditory, and some (most) are kinetic learners. That means we learn best from taking notes, listening, and doing. In addition to that, we all have a learning language. What I mean by that is that the person we are learning from explains things in a way that we can digest and retain the information. A great trainer, teacher, or coach has the ability to adapt their teaching language to the language the learner speaks and understands. Think back to when you were in school and had different math teachers. Was there one that made the material really easy to understand while another left you confused? It’s math, there’s only one answer. You just had that instructor that spoke your language. I would suggest making a notebook for your new hire with clearly outlined procedures. I would put screen captures in with step by step instructions. Between nerves of starting a new job, information overload, and the stress of feeling like he/she is not measuring up is making it difficult to retain the information. Your new hire should also make great notes and ask questions. Part of them
     asking questions effectively is feeling as though it is safe to do so. What I mean by that is that in order to feel as though they can ask, they are going to want to feel like you aren’t judging them negatively when they do. We do not all intuitively speak the same learning language and it is a skill all trainers, teachers, and coaches must develop. I hope that your new hire and you can learn together and be successful. Them learn the job, but also that you learn how to adapt to the person you are training. It is not easy at all. I suspect with an interview that went well and great references that this person is quite capable. Hang in there!

107. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netOctober 2,2022 at 1:49PM UTC

     Is this one new hire or more than one? Why are you referring to the new hire as "they"? No wonder the new hire is not getting it. Be clear--

108. Angie MartinOctober 2,2022 at 9:57PM UTC

     The employee could be non-binary, but otherwise I agree with you.

109. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:51PM UTC

     or they could be (pick a description) come on people. Ill guarantee one fact, they were either male or female.

110. AnonymousOctober 4,2022 at 12:35PM UTC

     The person may have chosen "they" as their desired pronoun, or the writer may not want to specify the person's gender. This is standard practice now.

111. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:49PM UTC

     Forget pronouns. I read they as the one person, not multiple persons.

112. Cathryn C.October 2,2022 at 7:19PM UTC

     If they are at all familiar with using a PC, they shouldn't be having a problem accessing outlook or their calendar. Take into account their last environment, Apple, Google, Linux, etc. then take a deep breath and try this. Make up a notebook that has the step-by-step for the most important things. Yes, it may impinge on your evening or weekend, but in the long run, it will save time and frustration at your job.

113. Martha MarinOctober 4,2022 at 1:04PM UTC

     If the job description states the requirements for the job (Outlook, Teams, Office Suite, etc), then the expectation is that the incoming employee is comfortable working in these programs.

     In my personal experience, I still train people to balance out things like previously using a different operating system or an older version of the software. This also works to cover instances of a person saying they knew how to use a program when they really didn’t.

     If an employee needs training on how to use a program, I am happy to provide that, but I won’t continue to provide it over and over; that signals a bigger issue.

     I have had both types of employees, those who I train and they are self sufficient afterwards, and those I train again and again and I see no progress. The latter ones have not worked out.

     Hiring is about a combination of things, skills, personality, culture fit, etc. If this person is not fulfilling that overall fit, then it might be time to cut your losses before it gets bigger.

114. Barbara SoninOctober 4,2022 at 4:03PM UTC

     I share your frustration. I have an employee who seems to need constant re-training. Every person in our very small firm has tried training her. BUT she is very good at a portion of what we intended this position to do. So we’re making some changes in job responsibilities to best use her talents.

115. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:48PM UTC

     Thats a start.

116. AnonymousOctober 10,2022 at 12:06AM UTC

     Nope, cut your losses and let her go now. Clearly she oversold herself in the interview.

117. Cindy GloverJune 18,2023 at 2:57PM UTC

     I would wait at least 90 days

     I’m 100% this person is petrified of asking any questions if I’m reading this correctly.

     Regarding Outlook, remember- there are so many different platforms it could

     be run on.

     you said “few weeks” of training - that’s a lot of training for someone who has never stepped foot in your office.

     I under your concerns about an web-based platforms but I’m not sure which ones you mean? Proprietary or something “a 3 year old” could do?”

     Everyone know ma starting a new job is absolutely nerve wracking and then throw in making avoidable mistakes every 2 minutes-

     My self esteem would be gone.

     i Would lightheartedly take her for a coffee - see whats up - maybe she needs to be trained differently? Play off her strengths?

     ?‍♀️

118. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 4:49PM UTC

     Well to begin, research says it takes 1 year to train in a new job. A 90 day period would be advisable for the new hire to assimilate into the role. Screen shots, step-by-step instructions and most importantly regular 1:1 meetings would help the new hire to feel more comfortable having dialogue with you, in pointing out what is being absorbed and what the challenges are.

119. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:46PM UTC

     I dont believe in that style of training. The person interviews well, she just cannot produce. Just remove the problem.

120. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:44PM UTC

     Is she on a probationary time period with the company? If so, wait till the last day and let her go. End of story.