Question regarding gender discrimination:

17 Comments

1. KatNovember 26,2024 at 5:41PM UTC

   My experience is in state government, so I'm only speaking very generally here. Not sure if it's a State or Federal level job, but most of the time it comes down to what job duties are listed in the job title. For example, if her official title is Custodial Technician and her PD states her duties are cleaning, vacuuming, dusting and snow removal, then that's what she's getting paid to do. Anything above and beyond that would need to be addressed in a re-classification showing she's been doing a higher level of duties (Tech 2, Lead Worker) for a certain amount of time-usually 6-12 months. If the new maintenance person is being hired with the same title and PD that she has, then the new person should be paid the same or less. Some jobs offer higher starting salaries to attract new workers, so if he's making more, she needs to ask for a raise. However, if the new maintenance person has a different title (Maintenance Tech, Custodian 3) and the job requires certifications (HVAC tech, Electrician), education or experience she doesn't have, I'm not sure there's much she could do, aside from asking for a reclass or transferring into a new job now that she's got the experience. She should talk to her boss about what's going on and ask why she's being relegated to cleaning tasks only. It's possible they realized that having her doing all the maintenance was a liability if she's not licensed to do those things. Or they're worried about the physical stress of doing both jobs being too much for her. Let's hope the reasoning is logical and not based on traditional gender roles. If it is, document that and look into possibly filing an EEOC claim.

2. AnonymousNovember 27,2024 at 4:41PM UTC

   The new employee has minimal experience with a plumbing and heating business but he was let go from there. (Also a job hopper). They both should have the same job description and pay band. She’s been doing both for 5 years because the older gentleman did very little. He changed the clocks and ran a leaf blower to remove snow. She has done all the heavy lifting and kept this place spotless. It’s unfair and frustrating because they are simply taking the same position description and divvying out the work by gender. He has no certifications, as well as a poor work history. It will be interesting to see. I appreciate your insight. Thank you!

3. AnonymousNovember 26,2024 at 8:04PM UTC

   I'm also in state government. Our janitorial services are contracted out so advise her to contact her supervisor. I agree with the other poster's reply who is also in state government. I'd recommend she contact her supervisor and ask if the duties she was performing that she was not hired to do, can be added. It may be a reclassification if she is a state employee but as the other poster mentioned, it could be the maintenance skills may require certifications. Many of us across many industries, and organizations lean in. She sounds like she leaned in, but as she does not report to you, as none report to me, they must go to their supervisor to air any concerns or grievances. I do not envy their work and am always grateful for what they do. Our building has about 5000-6000 people a day in it so it's a thankless job. I hope this person can get a higher title/pay as they deserve something for leaning in.

4. Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachNovember 27,2024 at 2:32PM UTC

   If it is federal government, his salary should be public. Not exactly sure where to find the data, but she should be able to find it with enough sleuthing— and the GS level should be obvious from the posting. If it’s state or local, it may depend on the location.

   She must have a boss who made this decision, and should start with them. If they refuse to take action, then she can take it up a level or to HR as a EEOC complaint. First she should review her own job description to ensure it is in-line with what she did do and wants to do so that on paper she has a legitimate complaint — if her official job is more custodian — cleaning than maintenance, she might be stuck. Good luck to her.

5. AnonymousNovember 27,2024 at 4:35PM UTC

   Please read my response above. You both gave the same advice:)

6. AnonymousNovember 27,2024 at 3:17PM UTC

   Did they post the maintenance job, and did she apply for it? These are two different issues here. Most governments must post internally and externally for all positions (possibly except for small city/county governments). If they posted and she applied, or if they didn't post and she asked, then there is a chance that EEOC can help her out. If they didn't post but hired the guy through some form of nepotism, that is a different can of worms.

   The resounding question is if she asked/applied for the position. People get passed over every day because others who are more assertive ask for it rather than sit back and hope someone notices them. I'm very sorry for what happened to your friend, and thank you for looking out for her.

   As for the pay differential, if he is getting paid more, it is probably because of the difference between skilled and unskilled positions, especially if the man has certifications/licenses to do plumbing and electrical work.

7. AnonymousNovember 27,2024 at 4:35PM UTC

   They initially posted for a maintenance position (HVAC, plumbing, electrical) but didn’t get any responses so they reposted it as Custodian/maintenance which is the same job description for my friend. It is county government but they sometimes don’t do things properly. When this kid applied, they backtracked and hired him as maintenance with ‘some custodial’. They both have the same job description. We have pay bands so I would assume he is on the same pay band but knowing how things operate here, they are writing a new description and probably promised him a wage well above hers. We will eventually find this out but if they do this, then they aren’t even following their own policy. There is only an HR consultant, not actual HR. I am in a different department but we have 1/3 of the workforce so essentially I serve as our HR for my department. This is still the ‘good ol boys’ club around here. I did tell my friend to apply for it but they told her they changed it and advertised for the same job but hoped he would have some plumbing and electrical experience. It’s frustrating! Thank you for your insight

8. AnonymousNovember 28,2024 at 5:00PM UTC

   She should definitely bring it up. She should also possibly file a complaint with the EEOC and FEHA to assure she is not being paid less. She is also tenured that may matter as most government roles irrespective of type have a salary grade with them. She should not sit idly by on this. If she cannot get straight answers perhaps another employer would love to have her on their team who will pay market rate and respect her experience. Thanks for being her advocate, we need more of those these days! I am sure she is grateful to have you.

9. TiffenyNovember 28,2024 at 5:09PM UTC

   She should file a complaint with the EEOC or depth. Of Labor first. Don't say anything to employer. They will just fire her. Filing with Eeoc first will give her protection and force the company to investigate. While doing that, look for another job. She has good skills for any facility management position and this is clearly discrimination.

10. Jacqueline CutlerNovember 28,2024 at 5:34PM UTC

    Government jobs have salaries available since they are paid for with taxes. Advise her to look first, get armed with some information, then she can talk with the EEOC officer.

11. AnonymousNovember 28,2024 at 7:55PM UTC

    If appears she doesn’t have all her information yet. Public jobs have pay scales available to public. The older person that has been there longer likely does make more. They also aren’t going to reduce someone’s pay because of change of limitations from age or illness (that would be discrimination) - public sector is likely covered and protected by the union. Is the older person retiring soon? The only angle she has right now is

    1- why are the roles split by gender?

    2- if the new guy makes equal oe more. Why is that?

12. Gerald CombeNovember 29,2024 at 1:54PM UTC

    I apologize if I misunderstood your statement...but...where is the discrimination? You're painting a scenario wit lh an incredibly broad brush.

13. AnonymousNovember 29,2024 at 3:51PM UTC

    I would definitely encourage her to file an EEOC complaint ASAP. She'll need to sit down and write everything out, preferably at home. It sounds like they are trying to force her out, especially since she was doing all these tasks prior to them hiring a new person and wasn't told not to do them. It's better to file a complaint online with the EEOC.

    I filed an EEOC complaint against a former employer that wrongfully terminated me due to being disabled. My former employer eventually settled out of court through the EEOC, which I was able to receive enough to start my own small business and I'm much happier now, too.

    There is no law that says he can't be paid more based on his level of knowledge and education, even if it is a government position; compared to what her level of knowledge and education is.

14. AnonymousNovember 29,2024 at 4:34PM UTC

    OMG. That would infuriate me if I were her.

    EEOC.

15. AnonymousNovember 30,2024 at 2:46PM UTC

    She should talk to her boss and ask why she will just do cleaning when she has been doing the maintenance the older counter part could not

    so it and I’m pretty sure they know it and ask am I now doing only cleaning because the new young man doesn’t want to clean ? Ask why suddenly you are turning into the maid , but ask respectfully and professionally

16. AnonymousDecember 1,2024 at 4:20AM UTC

    It sounds like she is being discriminated against. She should file a complaint to protect her position. She sounds like an amazing employee! I wish her the best. She should probably look for a new job with the skills she has.

17. Devorah FirestoneDecember 8,2024 at 12:22PM UTC

    She needs to create a presentation with report making clear exactly what she did while the other employee was gone. Then she should make clear why there's no need to separate by gender and why she should be paid at the maintenance level. If they don't act properly about this, then yes, legal maneuvers are the next step, she needs to make her case formally though and have documentation, ANY of it she can find. Give them a chance to do the right thing, spelling out what they're doing wrong. They may prefer to split the jobs with both activities and pay her a bit more than lose a ton in a lawsuit AND look bad.