Would you ask the why?

Anonymous

April 19,2023 at 3:54PM UTC

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Would you ask the why?

The team I work in occasionally has openings at a level above me. Twice these openings were clearly opened for another member of our team to promote them. However, the position descriptions are so similar to what I do that I consistently wonder why my leadership never lets me know about them. I usually find them when I look to see what openings are out there in our department (mostly out of curiosity and because I feel I am constantly overlooked).

Consequently, this makes me feel that they have no faith in me. I have never been talked to about what I need to do to be considered "qualified" for the open position. When I have applied for open positions outside of my area I alway get questioned as to why I would want to leave where I am at and why do I think I am qualified for those roles.

The last time I tried to ask why my then manager never gave me a solid answer and circumvented my question as to what I need to do to get to the next level. Should I even bother asking again?

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AnonymousApril 19,2023 at 6:13PM UTC
I would definitely address it.
AnonymousApril 19,2023 at 6:35PM UTC
I would sit your manager down and let them know what your planned career trajectory should look like, ask them what you need to do to get to that next rung in your current employer. Also have a backup plan that if you cannot get it there you will have to get it elsewhere. Take care of you and if they don't think you can get there ask for the why. It may be negative feedback that you get or you are so good at what you do now that they don't want to lose you there. Ask for what you want, you may just get it!
Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachApril 19,2023 at 7:52PM UTC
Yes. Ask and advocate for yourself. Why do you think you are qualified for these roles? Tell them and demonstrate that qualification. If they still hedge and don't answer, consider taking your talents elsewhere and grow by moving on to the next organization.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistApril 19,2023 at 11:03PM UTC
YOU SAID: "When I have applied for open positions outside of my area I alway get questioned as to why I would want to leave where I am at and why do I think I am qualified for those roles."
That's pretty much the definition of the interview process and you absolutely need to be able to answer those questions.
It sounds like you're not having regular one on ones with your manager. Why not? You should be. You should be having these conversations on the regular. How are you performing in your current role? Anything you need to upskill on? You can't wait to get to your review and find that information out.
Career path should also be a part of these conversations. You need to make your manager aware of what you see for your career with that company and they should lay out what you need to accomplish to be qualified to be considered for those higher level roles and then help you get there. It's part of being a good manager.
No one else is responsible for keeping your career on track - you have to advocate for yourself.
Now, it may turn out to be true that the current leadership at your company do not see you as someone who is promotable.
Having these ongoing conversations with your manager will either correct that or let you know that if you're looking to move up, you'll need to look elsewhere. Don't let yourself be stagnated if you're looking for growth.
AnonymousApril 20,2023 at 11:20AM UTC
Interviews come at people at all angles and being an internal candidate that interview process starts at any given time. "When I have applied for open positions outside of my area I alway get questioned as to why I would want to leave where I am at and why do I think I am qualified for those roles." That's an interview. be prepared, but ready, be able to talk about that role on the fly. You are your own advocate, no one is going to do it for you. Good luck.
Maggie StoneApril 20,2023 at 1:18PM UTC
Agree with a lot of the comments here. Have these conversations and advocate for yourself. People need to know what you want/need in order to help you. They may not know that you want a promotion or want to work in a specific department. If they don’t know, they won’t think of you when opportunities arise. If they don’t see you as promotable, then as hard as that is to hear, you then have the opportunity to work towards that or plan your next move.
AnonymousApril 20,2023 at 4:54PM UTC
I have seen this a few times where I am employed. People there know who they want in those roles and who they want to bring with them. I would say don’t wait for you manager to tell you there’s an opening. Just apply, and may have the conversation that you plan to apply however you feel comfortable. They can have all the reasons to keep in stuck. And if you been in that role for a while and wanting to move upward, it won’t be happening not applying.
AnonymousApril 20,2023 at 8:56PM UTC
Upper management is telling you the answer. Their vagueness is their answer, they just don't want to come out and say it, especially when you asked directly for the information. If the company or your manager has no faith in you, it's time to leave.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 1:58PM UTC
Exactly. I saw this in a previous job. I worked with someone who repeatedly asked to be promoted to a job that would require supervisory skills and while she was very nice, she struggled in her current role and just didn’t have those skills and no amount of coaching was probably ever going to get her there. She just didn’t have the insight that it was likely never going to happen. I think she could have left and interviewed for the role she wanted at other companies, but I doubt she would have made it past the interviewing. Unfortunately, not everyone is meant to be a fit in every position.
Erica MitchellApril 21,2023 at 8:20AM UTC
If you're really good at your job, most times they'll want to keep you there. It's unfair but it happens a lot
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 12:22PM UTC
I would definitely ask again. I would be very specific with the examples of things that you believe you were qualified for and let them tell you why they didn't think of you for the roles. If your new manager is doing their job (which includes developing you) then they should be able to answer your questions. Do keep in mind a couple of thing though - it isn't the managers job to scout jobs for you. Sometimes they will nudge someone if they are aware of the openings and think its a good fit but ultimately you are in a role they are going to have to train and replace and so that isn't always the case. I would continue to look for myself and maybe engage the hiring managers from other departments to find out more about what would make you a good candidate.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 12:28PM UTC
I think you should ask as frequently as you want. If they are still not promoting you, it is usually a sign that they do not believe you have the skills or behaviours for the role and if they do not help coach you towards the role then it is a sign you probably should look for another job. True you may just be an asset in your current role but they usually will try and give you more work than the JD as they wont want you to be bored. If you are just doing the JD its bad news.
Lisa MarieApril 21,2023 at 12:31PM UTC
Being blunt, no one needs to tell you about open positions. You need to find out about them (seek and you shall find) for yourself and *apply* for the jobs *that you are qualified for.*
Perhaps you are not qualified for the jobs outside your scope of work? Which *may/could* be why you were asked the two questions you were asked. They *were not being vague, or avoiding giving an answer.* You should already have on point responses to those two questions.
Have you applied for roles *in your area* or have you just been waiting for the roles to be offered to you?
Some managers/company policies dictate they do not advise any employee to apply for open positions - to avoid the appearance of favoritism.
Great leaders want to see their team members push, be hungry, and strive for promotions *without being prompted.* This shows the drive and desire staff have for their own growth and development.
No one is going to want staff who doesn't show initiative - to even try/campaign for their own advancement.
If you are not taking initiative, and putting yourself out there, you are going to keep " getting overlooked."
Perhaps it is time you become more visible and apply for the promotion you feel you will be successful at.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 12:40PM UTC
I was going to write something similar until I read they were opening roles that seem to be targeted to certain individuals. It's entirely possible they're slotting people in which is a poor internal mobility practice. I completely agree they aren't obligated to tell anyone of open roles nor would I expect a manager to tell one individual about an open role. If anything, announce the role on a team meeting.
Given she did apply for roles and didn't feel she got feedback as to why she didn't get the role. Either the manager was not prepared for the question, has a difficult time having an honest conversation or she received the feedback but didn't hear the feedback.
Lisa MarieApril 23,2023 at 5:00PM UTC
She did say the roles she applied for were "outside of her area" which could (but not necessarily) mean roles she may not be qualified for, or as you stated very well, the manager doesn't communicate well or the OP didn't hear what was said. Either way, OP needs to find out what's going on and what she needs to do to make good strides in her career.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 12:32PM UTC
There could be several reasons.
1- You don't have the qualifications they're looking for.
2- You have the qualifications but someone else was a better candidate.
3- You have the qualifications but they don't lose you in your current role (in which case, you need to start interviewing if you want career growth).
4- You have the qualifications, but they aren't taking your candidacy seriously. This could be a them issue or a you issue.
When you apply are you interviewed? They should be interviewing all internal candidates. Rather than ask about why you didn't get the job maybe framing it in a different way would get you the answer. "What gaps do you feel I need to focus on in order to be a (insert title)?" When you compare yourself to the ones that did get the position where do you see the differences? I had a Regional VP that wanted an SVP role. She was upset that she didn't get it. When I asked her what was the difference between her current skill set and the guy that got the role, she identified at least 3 key skills. So I said "I could see where you're coming from. Let's get a game plan together on how you could fill those gaps." because I feel strongly that everyone should know what they need to do to get to that next level. As HR, companies should be as transparent with careerpaths as possible. Another situation I had was someone that repeatedly complained that she wasn't getting her shot at a role. However she was indecisive and all over the place with her career growth other than wanting to just get ahead. She complained about being overlooked. When given a chance to learn a different skillset, she was too busy and defaulted to doing what she really liked doing at her job. Many people in management explained what she needed to do but she wasn't really hearing them. I am not saying you are either one of these people but
Some managers are ill-equipped if they are surprised with a request for honest feedback.
I think after self reflecting,the best you can do is request a meeting either management or HR about your career development. Go with an open mind. This way they'll be prepared.
Leah PetrosinoApril 21,2023 at 12:55PM UTC
5 - It May have nothing to do with your qualifications. It’s easier for them to onboard 1 person into a new role instead of 2.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 12:33PM UTC
I have a VP friend at work.
The EVPs met with her and told her that they had posted an HR SVP job. When she told them she would be interested in that job, they were (acted) floored. It’s not always true, but sometimes people have a hard time seeing long term employees in jobs other than the one they are in. Dumb, but true. You have to constantly advocate for yourself. Nobody else is going to do it. It’s a sad dog that won’t wag its own tail.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 1:09PM UTC
Yes you should keep advocating for yourself. Sit down with your boss and talk about your career path and where you would like to go. Talk about promotions and what you need to do to get there. If your boss won’t help you then talk to their boss or to HR. HR should be able to at least help you find out how to apply for these openings. If that doesn’t work, at least you have advocated for yourself and tried. When you decide you’ve had enough of being held back, they shouldn’t be surprised when you leave. Good luck!!
Carolina Perez SanzApril 21,2023 at 1:09PM UTC
You don’t need to wait for someone else to choose you. Let them know you’re ready to move up to the next level and ask what you need to do in order to be considered for the next promotion. Good luck!
Dcre1977April 21,2023 at 1:18PM UTC
At least they are positing the jobs, some companies will create a role for someone they want to promote but not post it.
If you are not getting mentorship on how to grow your career with your current manager, the best bet is usually to switch jobs to another company. Find a manager you click with who wants to help you grow.
Unfortunately, a lot of promotions isn't necessarily about your skillsets, but who you have managed to schmooze with. If you are not clicking with this manager, their bias is likely not seeing you as a potential promotion. People tend to ignore the skills necessary to be successful in the position in favor of whether they personally like the person.
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 1:46PM UTC
Have you applied for these jobs when you see them? I agree notifying the team would be nice but unless it is a huge team presumably you know about vacancies.
Rosa E HearnApril 21,2023 at 1:52PM UTC
I wouldn't ask the manager anymore. It's clear you are very good at what you do and it's good for them that you stay there. Plus some companies have to open it up to everyone so they don't get in trouble not being equal opportunity kind of company. Just keep applying. Hopefully you'll get there.
GirlBossanova934974April 21,2023 at 3:41PM UTC
It sounds like there is some sort of internal career website for your company. If you want those jobs, you have to keep looking on a daily basis for openings. Apply for them! The company is not going to tell you about them. Your manager seems like she is perfectly happy with you in your current position. Why make extra work for herself is what she is probably thinking. Finding a good new employee is not that easy these days. IF you have applied for several internal positions and you are getting no where aka you are NOT getting interviews, I would have to conclude your company does not think that much of you OR there is some sort of GOOD OLE BOY/GOOD OLD GIRL NETWORK going on in your company. I have seen those networks do so much harm over the years. If you want to get promoted, you have to buddy buddy up with some manager etc. In some places, it is called nepotism. If you conclude you are dealing with nepotism, best to get out of there and be on your way to a new job!
AnonymousApril 21,2023 at 5:21PM UTC
I wouldn’t assume they don’t have faith in you. If others are raising their hands and asking for professional development to climb the ladder and you are not that could be why. I’m a hiring manager and I usually promote people who ask. Not because they asked first but because they’ve shown the interest and ambition. They’ve asked what they need to do to develop into a higher role. Those are the employees that get the most attention because they ask for it. So why don’t you try having a convo with your boss about your career trajectory, within the company and long term. Ask what you need to do to achieve your personal goals. If you take the feedback (these convos always require feedback) and apply what they recommend to grow you have a much bigger chance of them opening up a promoted role for you (this applies at your current company and future companies). Good luck!
Wendy ScottApril 21,2023 at 7:19PM UTC
As an L&D professional with over 40 years experience in the workforce, I’ve come to the conclusion that most managers don’t concern themselves with the career aspirations of their team unless it’s made very obvious their team member wants to progress.
Most of us assume the opposite and wait to be noticed for our good work.
The team members who have been earmarked for these new roles may have been talking to their manager about possible openings and what they need to do to be considered for quite a while.
My advice is to book in a meeting with your manager, prep for the meeting by thinking about your strengths and areas for improvement re the roles you are interested in and open the discussion by saying you are keen to move up. Talk about the future and avoid talking about the other people who have moved up.
Ideally you will come out with a development plan. If this doesn’t work ask what are the top three thing’s stopping you from being qualified for the next role so you can remedy them.
If you still don’t get a useful response it may be that with the current manager you will never get a promotion and it’s time to look elsewhere.
AnonymousApril 22,2023 at 12:18AM UTC
If they've specifically opened roles to obviously promote specific people, and ask you "why I would want to leave where I am at and why do I think I am qualified for those roles", then they might just be so satisfied keeping you where you are that they are willing to gaslight you into thinking you don't have the skills. It's common for women to be doing work above the level of their jobs with no recognition or extra pay. Find out if this is happening. If it were me, I'd also be looking at other jobs outside of your organization. That being said, if you show complacency and question whether you should even bother looking for a promotion then maybe (and I'm not saying this as a critique) building self-confidence, setting some boundaries, and even expecting to get paid in accordance with your work production (you say the position descriptions are similar to what you already do) are areas you might want to explore.
Liz MilneApril 22,2023 at 12:50AM UTC
Have you ever actively asked to be promoted? Some companies are happy to let people stay where they are unless they raise the subject of advancing within the company...
Although being questioned about why you think you're qualified for other roles does sound a little disrespectful towards you...
Vanda LeeApril 22,2023 at 6:11AM UTC
You are the driver of your destiny... keep looking and apply if you are qualified. That sets the tone that you want promotion. Don't rely on or expect others to inform you of growth opportunities...it's nice if it happens but it's not the norm. Good luck.
AnonymousApril 22,2023 at 4:05PM UTC
Your manager gave you the answer. You need to do what it takes to get to the next level. Make a plan, not a wish. The difference between a plan and a wish is that the plan has dates attached to it.
I always knew what I was working towards and make detailed career plans. I watched the people at the level that I aspired to and imitated how they dressed and what they did. I looked the part and was sure I was prepared before I actually interviewed.
When you promote a worker you are taking a chance that they will be good at the new role. Also have to find a person to take over the former role. Multiple opportunities for failure or success.
Next time you interview be prepared with solid answers as to what you have done to prepare for the role, how you are prepared to transition your current duties, and why you will be a success in the new role.