I need some advice, ladies!

Anonymous

October 2,2021 at 7:49AM UTC

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I need some advice, ladies!

I received a job offer today. I was excited at first but then a bit concerned and upset when I read the job description and compensation they are offering. I have a few questions and concerns and hope you can help me out.

Honestly, I was upset when I saw the offer letter come through with the salary way less than I'd imagined. I imagine this is something that an undergrad (maybe not even an engineer) might get let alone a PhD holder with a Professional Engineer license and 6 years of engineering experience.

The job description I had initially applied for asks for an engineering degree, 4 years of engineering experience, and a P.Eng. license. I have all three of these qualifications and that's why I applied.

Instead, what they have hired me for is this role of a Data Scientist (a Jr level role as well).

This role does not require an engineering degree or a P.Eng. It's more of a fresh graduate of Computer Science or someone with a Statistics or Math background. I am concerned about the engineering license part as well. I do not want to risk losing my license at any cost. In order to maintain my license, I SHOULD be doing engineering work. It was a huge deal both in terms of wait time, money and effort to acquire it and there is no way I want to be out of compliance and stand the risk of losing it and then go through the reinstatement process. I also see that they have changed both the title and job description in the offer letter to suit a Data Scientist job compared to the engineering role I had originally applied for.

My other concern is this: Given that this is a small company of just 15 people for now, I'm not sure how much of a scope for upward growth (both in terms of promotion and pay raise) there could be in the foreseeable future. Even if I stay with them for a couple years with the current salary, it is highly unlikely I can expect even close to what I was making previously anytime soon. Wouldn't that drastically reduce my bargaining power in the future?

The job is in Calgary, which is a more expensive city than Edmonton and this salary is hardly enough to afford a quality of life that I had when I was working with any of my previous jobs. I don't mean to say I deserve a top class salary at the get-go, however, I don't want to undervalue myself either. They have mentioned the work location as the Calgary address which means they expect me to relocate there sometime soon, but have mentioned nothing about relocation charges.

Even if I accept this job offer just for the sake of experience and reducing the gaps in my resume, I will have to actively continue seeking other better opportunities elsewhere - I'd really like to settle in a job at least for the foreseeable long-term and having to go through a job search despite having a job is just adding to the stress and extra time and effort I have to put in. However, if there is no other option, I will just have to do it. The other weak point for me at the moment is I do not have another job offer in hand to compare or bargain against.

Sorry for the long message. I'm so confused and upset at the moment and really need some advice before making a decision.

Thank you all.

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AnonymousOctober 2,2021 at 11:10AM UTC
Is there no way you can financially afford to keep looking, after all this is only one offer.
If not and you must accept I would certainly try and negotiate by outlining all the issues you explain here.
I wouldn't be confused in the least on this offer. They either understand the market and know you will have a tough time finding anything else at the moment abd think they can get a bargain or they are low balling the entire position starting with the title expecting you'll be negotiating title, job scope, relocation and salary.
I would consider you keep shopping around since this offer meets none of your expectations for the job (none at all). You have the education and experience to be in a position not to have to start from scratch. It might take you decades to catch up by starting over.
Nicole COctober 2,2021 at 12:27PM UTC
Next. Rule of thumb: for each job you should Earn or Learn. Sounds like you won't be doing either in this role. You know your worth. Keep looking until you find an employer that does too. And when you decide to respond, I would absolutely say something along the lines of, "my understanding was that I am applying for an engineering role." I know you feel like you are in a vulnerable position right now, but when you find a great opportunity you will be so happy you didn't take this one. Be strong girl you got this.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 4:23PM UTC
Ohh I really like that Earn or Learn rule!!
Melissa NobileOctober 2,2021 at 12:30PM UTC
Contact them and ask them if they sent the right package. Explain that this job description is not what you applied for or interviewed for (if that is the case). See what they say. If they tell you it is the correct package, turn them down.
Orlagh CostelloOctober 3,2021 at 12:34PM UTC
I agree. That level of difference would suggest a mistake somewhere...
Vanessa TolbertOctober 2,2021 at 1:30PM UTC
Be straight up from the beginning on your desired salary range from the beginning. That way you won't waste your time and energy on a position that doesn't pay well.
AnonymousOctober 2,2021 at 8:22PM UTC
If you interviewed for one job and were offered another, lesser job, I would be upset as well. I would email/call and ask for clarification. I would also be highly unlikely to take a job that was offered if it was not the job I actually applied for in this case. The job offer doesn’t suit you or your experience.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 12:26PM UTC
I think you gave yourself your own answer:
"""Even if I accept this job offer just for the sake of experience and reducing the gaps in my resume, I will have to actively continue seeking other better opportunities elsewhere - I'd really like to settle in a job at least for the foreseeable long-term and having to go through a job search despite having a job is just adding to the stress and extra time and effort I have to put in. However, if there is no other option, I will just have to do it. ""
If you don't have anything else, this might be an option to financially survive.
At the same time, how can the offer by so different from what you applied/interviewed for?? I think I would ask this question first. Is it possible that they sent you the wrong contract offer (maybe a contract meant for another person?).
At the end of the day, only you know what your options are...and how long you can wait for employment, etc. Also, we have no way of knowing the work environment in your region , but you do. If there are other jobs and you aren't being too hasty, then wait..for the right offer to come along...or not. Keep us posted!
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 12:36PM UTC
If this isn't the job you applied and interviewed for, you should not accept. I would ask whoever sent it what's going on, keep looking and move on.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 12:40PM UTC
Politely decline the offer, and then move on to something more suited to your knowledge, skills & abilities. The job & salary aren't what you expected, and the company is obviously dishonest. If you accepted this position, you would regret it for many more reasons than you can know at this point!
HOctober 3,2021 at 12:49PM UTC
Seems highly suspish that they’ve offered you a position outside of the one you applied for, with no discussion re. reasoning or why? You absolutely must get into the habit of being upfront about what you’re looking for right out of the gate, each & every time so that you don’t get this far into the process w/a potential employer, only to be completely blindsided by such a disappointing offer. I agree w/all the other contributors who’ve advised you to speak up & question the offer. Perhaps it was a simple mistake & you were sent the wrong one- OR perhaps they’re hoping you’re ‘desperate’ enough to take it, and in doing so they’ll land a great hire for short money, who in their minds either doesnt know what she’s really worth, or isnt assertive enough to speak up about it. Either one is def not how you want to start your new position. Sounds like you hv great qualifications & they shd absolutely be thinking ‘Wow we are so lucky to hv found this amazing person!’ - NOT ‘Wow we are so lucky to hv found this amazing person for so cheap!’ You’ve got this!!!
FlossyOctober 3,2021 at 12:55PM UTC
Move on. This isn’t your job.
1. Financial loss
2. Position is not in your career path, at your level, jeopardizes your license
3. Will force you to move - which doesn’t sound like you want to move to Calgary.
An engineer should never have to settle for this … this is a hard no.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 1:22PM UTC
Please don’t take it !! Move on!! You deserve so much better and it’s a bit concerning how companies can be be very manipulating these days!! It’s not worth it !! Considering your engineering experience and Licence!! Good luck ??
Dhyani GardnerOctober 3,2021 at 1:33PM UTC
Gracefully decline the job, but offer to do that work for them as a consultant, working remotely, while you keep looking for a suitable Engineering position.
Not only does this give you income right now, but once you work with them for a while, maybe it will evolve into an engineering role.
Vidya RajaOctober 3,2021 at 2:50PM UTC
Great idea Dhyani! Thank you.
TerryOctober 3,2021 at 2:57PM UTC
Great idea!
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 1:45PM UTC
Your skills are highly valuable and needed, so as the others said, decline. Don't contort yourself into something you're not and into something beneath your experience and ability.
Also, it's remotely possible that somehow they got your offer mixed up with another candidate's, so upon declining suggest saying something like, I regretfully must decline this data scientist offer as I had interviewed for an engineering role.
Carolyn HipkinsOctober 3,2021 at 2:19PM UTC
If you don't have to take the job don' t take it. Keep looking to you find what you want.
BeaBoss645203October 3,2021 at 2:56PM UTC
I think you already know what to do and that is decline the offer unless you absolutely need the money now.
Vidya RajaOctober 3,2021 at 3:03PM UTC
Thank you all for the valuable advice. I'm going to talk to them on Monday and find out why they have made me such a low offer (low in terms of everything).
One other reason I found out from my research and during the interview is that since this is a very small company , they are temporarily getting a small grant from the government to hire a new person during these pandemic times. They are eager to grab this opportunity to get the grant. That way they only have to spend a really small amount on my salary. My concern is government grants are limited and unpredictable and can be withdrawn once the pandemic is over. At that time, they can even lay me off saying they can't afford me since they are such a small company. Which means I'll be in the job market once again. I just don't feel good about any aspect of this offer and most probably might turn it down. However I'll ask them for an explanation first and give them the benefit of the doubt until then. I recall they had mentioned during the interview that some other person had turned down this offer and hence they were considering me.
Melissa NobileOctober 3,2021 at 9:50PM UTC
In that case, run!
Madam anon663October 3,2021 at 4:22PM UTC
Without thinking to hard, my initial feeling was don't do it. Don't take a lesser position and pay, you may never recoup.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 4:29PM UTC
If they bait and switched you by offering you a totally different job than what you applied for, and the actual job offer isn't for a job you want to do and isn't paying you the compensation you need ... then this sounds like an easy no.
Focused721350October 3,2021 at 4:40PM UTC
Your a smart cookie! NOOOOOOO!!!!!
Tricia BurroughsOctober 3,2021 at 4:48PM UTC
Wait for a job that pays you what you are worth, it takes a LONG time to make up for that deficit. And a PE certification matters, don't take a job that will not help you keep your certification unless it is really something you want to do or if you think the money is worth it. It sounds like neither of these things is true for this company. Finally, I would recommend for any early in career engineer that you work at a larger company, the professional development, mentoring and room to grow cannot be matched at a smaller company. These are things you should be exploring early in your career.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 4:56PM UTC
This happened to my friend. She applied for an executive assistant job, went through the interview process....and her offer letter was for the receptionist position that they didn't advertise for.
She took the job (against the advice of everyone), and she was miserable. Don't do that to yourself.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 5:48PM UTC
Is there anything about the job you have been offered that you find appealing? I didn’t see any mentions in your post. If yes, does the good outweigh the bad? Then take it. If no, why are you even thinking about taking a job you have no interest in? Not only would you be wasting your own time, you’d be wasting the employer’s time.
All that being said, are you sure they sent you the correct offer? Maybe they accidentally sent you someone else’s. Stranger things have happened.
Fernanda MartinezOctober 3,2021 at 7:08PM UTC
That was also my thought, that they inadvertently sent you the wrong offer letter. I would reach out and Ask
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 7:19PM UTC
It doesn’t seem like you’ll be getting much experience from this job, though. The way you describe it seems like a step back, so what’s really keeping you?
Vidya RajaOctober 3,2021 at 7:20PM UTC
There's really not anything attractive in this job except that I can get to practice my computer programming skills - although my interest is not to be a computer programmer, rather my goal is to be an engineer with computer programming skills (which isa necessary skill days). And like many of you already pointed out, I will be taking a hit not only in position (seniority) by moving from a senior to a junior level role, which again would be a question future employers will ask, but also in the monetary, P.E licensure and growth aspects as well.
I will clarify with them if this was a mistake and if they say it wasn't, I think I'm just going to move on. I agree that will be virtually impossible or take decades to even catch up with the salary scale I got when I was just fresh out of school. For context, the salary they are offering now is just about what a middle school teacher just starting out may make - and I have a PhD in engineering, PE license and 6 years of experience. I really feel bad that there are employers that totally disregard a candidate's worth even today.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 10:49PM UTC
I just wanted to mention that your name is revealed here in case you are not aware
Arlene Frances Gottardo (Bryak)October 3,2021 at 10:40PM UTC
If it’s a smallish company, and you get/got a good vibe- and the location works….I might take it. Do you see a future there?
Vidya RajaOctober 3,2021 at 11:01PM UTC
It is a very small company with 15 people (I might be the 16th person). Given the size and the state of the industry at the moment, I definitely don't see a future for myself here. Worst-case it will be a filler until I find my next full time role elsewhere.
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 10:45PM UTC
Never take less!! Trust me I just did it and it's all I can think about. The work is usually related to the salary. It may be beneath your level. Also, always best to discuss your range prior to even getting that far along. If anything definitely go back to them with a counter offer.
Vidya RajaOctober 3,2021 at 10:59PM UTC
I sent them an appropriate range based on my research from trusted sources. Even then, I am not sure why they came back with something so low.
Maureen B. WeisnerOctober 4,2021 at 12:00AM UTC
Please don't torture yourself. Unless there was a huge "error" on their part in the offer, it doesn't sound like it's a personal or professional fit for you. The discrepancies are very cautionary.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 2:00AM UTC
They have not offered you the job you applied for - you should decline it. The Eng license itself is reason to do so. It's critical that you maintain that license.
Tamara MillsOctober 4,2021 at 3:40AM UTC
They didn't offer you a job you can take. Decline and move on.
Also seems insulting to your education and experience to offer you a completely different position.
Heather BinghamOctober 4,2021 at 8:21AM UTC
I'd check that they have actually sent you the right offer - HR do make mistakes, as we all know - and if they have, decline politely and move on. My advice is to never, ever take a job when it feels like you're being diddled from the very start. It is a copper-bottomed guarantee that it won't end well. The truth is that there is no guaranteed growth in SMEs - there's loads of potential, but no guarantee - and anyway, if you start below where you believe you should be, you'll never catch up anyway without a double- or triple-promotion at some point. You will always feel on the back foot, which is no way to succeed.
Vidya RajaOctober 5,2021 at 8:38PM UTC
I completely agree with you.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 12:14PM UTC
Don’t take the job if it’s not what you need to keep your license. You worked hard for that! Mention this to them and see what they say.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 12:22PM UTC
Run. If they are doing a bait and switch on the job what else are they going to do that with going forward. Huge red flag.
Cyn JoyceOctober 4,2021 at 12:28PM UTC
This is not the job you want. It sounds like you should turn it down, honestly.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 1:25PM UTC
They did a bait & switch on you.
Unless they put something in writing that after 90 days, you'll be promoted to a senior position; if not, I'd get out of there.
KarenOctober 4,2021 at 1:44PM UTC
I would explain exactly that the job is not the same job you applied for I have seen a lot of companies do this advertise for all the experience for jobs that don’t need it. Unfortunately I would not take the job as you will be unhappy. It is not healthy to to work in an unhappy position.
I understand sometimes you do what you must to make ends meet but if you have a choice…
Karen GongawareOctober 4,2021 at 2:47PM UTC
Naw, turn them down and tell them why. They are doing the classic bait and switch. They get your experience and degrees for crap pay and an entry level basically not in your field (if I understood correctly) job. Do you really want to work with a company that lies? I wouldn't. Do your homework and find out what the pay is for someone with your skills and work experience. You do have work experience in your field? If not, don't expect a big salary. However, keep looking for something in your field. It will happen.
LisaOctober 4,2021 at 3:10PM UTC
#1 - I hate Calgary. (Sorry - I just had to say that).
#2 - I wouldn't take the job. Its not what you interviewed for. I'd raise the issue with them but be prepared to walk away.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:08PM UTC
Don't take the job unless they're willing to negotiate something that meets your expectations.
In terms of salary you can say, "Unfortunately, I cannot see myself leaving my current role for any position offering less than X." If they push back, double down.
They might say, "I'm sorry to hear that, but with the benefits we offer blah blah blah."
Just say, "Yes, and your benefits package does excite me. But unfortunately I cannot move into a role offering less than X."
If they won't accommodate you, oh well. It sounds like you're highly experienced and intelligent with tons of qualifications. You know it - they know it. Honestly, it's insulting for them to try to undercut you - and it may back a sign that they don't have a mutual respect for their employees. They may treat you like a cog in the machine.
Also, in response to there only being 15 people, sometimes that's not great. Sometimes that means that way too much work gets dumped on individuals. I would just keep that in mind.
Good luck!
Rebecca MillikenOctober 4,2021 at 4:23PM UTC
I wouldn't take it. It doesn't sound like it's what you want at all. If it's a matter of starving or not, maybe consider it, but otherwise I'd wait until something more suitable came along.
Vidya RajaOctober 5,2021 at 8:36PM UTC
I'd make less than even what I get as EI. Removing the employment gap on my resume is the only pro here.
Tami L CannizzaroOctober 4,2021 at 4:48PM UTC
Why would you take a job that meets none of your criteria, and potentially harms your future career? A new job should offer at least one, if not more, key benefits that are better than your current/last position. A new title, more responsibility, moving into a new role or maybe a new industry, more money if you're making a lateral, a better commute, better benefits, etc. Unless I'm missing something, this one offers nothing. And, as others have pointed out, unless you will lose your house/be out on the street, it seems like a bad deal all the way around. You did mention wanting to take this to cover "gaps in your resume", but didn't expand on this that I remember. Not sure what happened here that you are desperate to take a job where you could potentially lose your engineering license. IF you are at the point of desperation, is there a way to set yourself up as an LLC to do engineering consulting on the side in order to maintain your license and show productivity for future jobs?
Vidya RajaOctober 5,2021 at 8:35PM UTC
Hi Tami,
The gaps in my resume refer to the period of unemployment that I had due to various reasons that weren't in my control (economic downturn and layoffs, shortage of funding for projects, end of contract). I had a huge gap in my resume from 2017 to 2019, then got got employed for about 2 months and then out of work again (no funding for the project), another gap from 2019 to 2020, and a gap yet again from 2021 June until now. My only inclination to take this job would be to reduce such "gaps" in employment. What I would get as salary right now is even less than what I'm getting as Employment Insurance. Monetary wise, it is a huge huge hit. The only factor to even consider this job is to keep my "work experience" going. I don't have the qualifications or the license to start a consulting firm and to work for another consultant is also hard since no one is hiring these days.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 5:30PM UTC
This is not the right job for you. Move on.
AnonymousOctober 5,2021 at 2:38AM UTC
Why accept just any job? I would hold out for a fantastic job!
PatriciaOctober 9,2021 at 12:21PM UTC
Maybe for the experience? Or perhaps for financial reasons? Not everyone has the luxury to wait for their dream job.
Vidya RajaOctober 5,2021 at 8:46PM UTC
Thanks for a;; the advice, ladies. I spoke with them and they agreed it was a mistake - they offered me the wrong job title. But they wouldn't budge on the salary since they are a very small private company of just 15 people and cannot pay more than the current amount. I did a rough calculation and my bi-weekly salary would be even less than my current EI, even before taxes and other deductions kick in. The only "pro" is that I can decrease the employment gap on my resume which an eyesore for some employers despite having valid reasons. I would like to get some experience in the "Data Science" field and this job may be able to do that, although it is a huge hit financially. Even if I accept it for now, I have to continue actively seeking other better opportunities that suit my qualifications nd experience and make an exit as soon as I find a new job. My predicament right now is that I do not have another offer in hand at the moment. I'm in a "beggars can't be choosers" sort of situation at the moment.
PatriciaOctober 9,2021 at 12:29PM UTC
I can relate. I completed a post-graduate in Data Science in 2019 and was unemployed for 15 months. I couldn’t land a role in Data Science, due to lack of experience, although I do have a strong IT background and a background as a developer and IT project management. Despite constantly applying for positions that suited my background skill-set, and networking, I couldn’t land an interview; the longer I was unemployed the fewer the opportunities. The recruiters kept asking why there were gaps between roles - even though there is an explanation in my resume and in the cover letter. Once they see a pattern they focus on your “job-hopping” rather than what you can offer - even though I wasn’t job-hopping and had skills that fit the roles I had applied for. I have been contracting for over 20 years and not always able to land back-to-back roles. It sounds like you may be in a similar situation.
Like you, I was keen to land a role to fill in the gap. I had depleted my savings and was on the dole, struggling to make ends meet. I had to take the first thing that came along. I was grateful that I could at least earn a wage - despite take a 250% pay cut for a junior position. Why didn’t I wait for something better, as has been suggested by some of the others in response to your post? Because I have a mortgage and didn’t want to lose my home. At least it was a 12 month contract and gave me the chance to tread water whilst I looked for a better opportunity; although I did wait 6 months before starting to apply as it would look bad, given the current state of my resume. Thankfully, I was able to stay the distance and completed the 12 month contract. I recently landed a much better role, prior to ending the 12 month stint, paying me more than my usual rate and I am sure this would not have occurred if I hadn’t taken on the junior role. Do what you have to do to keep a roof over your head…. I am sure you are tired of job hunting and not keen to take on the current offer, but it could lead to something better in the near future.
Liz MilneOctober 10,2021 at 4:42AM UTC
Say no. I think you answered yourself, in all honesty - you give many reasons for *not* taking the job and a very half-hearted 'for the experience' as the only positive that I could see.
Respond firmly, something like: 'This job is not an ideal fit for me. I am an engineer with a doctorate, I have my licence and will not jeopardise that by working outside of this field. If you have a position that requires - and can afford - my expertise, I would be delighted to speak further on the matter.' And there's nothing wrong with allowing them to assume that you do have a couple of other strong offers if you think that will make them snap you up a little bit quicker!
You've earned your place on a higher rung - don't let anyone hold you back!