I recently had a private conversation about salaries with a peer on my small team.

34 Comments

1. Jana GrazerJune 24,2022 at 1:10PM UTC

   This is a tough call...following!

2. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 1:33PM UTC

   Gender and ageism is very real. I hate to say it. I will be following this conversation as well.

3. Nicole DupuisJune 24,2022 at 1:48PM UTC

   Thanks for sharing as I am sure there are many others that experience something similar and aren’t sure where to turn.

   I don’t think it ever hurts to keep options open. Have your resume up to date, talk to people, keep your LinkedIn updated and connect with more folks in the industry you are interested.

   I would also say that if you haven’t had an annual/quarterly/or 6 month review with your supervisor, perhaps request one and based on that conversation, ask someone questions about what a promotion plan could look like, etc. if the response is openness and looking to work with you, great! If the conversation ends there, might be time to look elsewhere more actively.

4. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 1:51PM UTC

   "I did not negotiate..." Before you look elsewhere you should negotiate for a better salary.
   Even if you don't get it and come to the conclusion you have to leave this company the experience of negotiating will help you get the salary you deserve int he next role.

5. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 1:56PM UTC

   Before pointing to the obvious answer I'm going to ask a question. Do you keep your skills current and do you have any classes or certifications to show it? If the answer is yes, then it is definitely age/gender discrimination.

6. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 2:22PM UTC

   Yes, I had completed an online UX bootcamp to be relevant to this type of work and was in the middle of a second one when I was applying but still had months to go and quit because of the time commitment. Now that I think about it, I could ask for assistance or just work time to do more training. The job is really half UX design and half Marketing design. I did not have UX experience aside from my online class prior to this job. I have 15 years of Marketing design experience. So this job is a great way for me to get UX experience while also using my past experience.

7. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 2:03PM UTC

   As someone with a similar level of experience, I have found this same thing and have suddenly realized that in the workplace I am now "old." And I do worry about how this is perceived...value vs. liability.

   I am not always good at doing it myself, but I advise all women I know to negotiate. Do not tell yourself that there isn't room to negotiate unless they tell you there isn't. And if they say that, I'd also ask about the range for the position. If you are truly at the top of your range, what does this mean for future growth? Can you expect the opportunity for salary increases?

   I agree with the other poster that if you are interested in staying, request a review and have a conversation about your qualifications and achievements and your opportunities with the company. This should give you a good sense of whether you will be comfortable staying there or need to look elsewhere.

8. Barb HansenJune 24,2022 at 3:00PM UTC

   You should ask for a raise. Do not make career decisions on hearsay or what someone else is doing.

   Just because he told you he was told there was no budget for raises does not mean it was true or that there is no room in the budget for you to get a raise.

   Ask for what you deserve and if you are told no, then you can make the best decision for yourself - stay or leave.

9. JJJune 24,2022 at 3:03PM UTC

   Go to your boss and if they do not offer a higher salary start looking.

10. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 3:06PM UTC

    Lesson learned. Always negotiate your compensation. Always.

    The employer knows a bargin when they see and you and all your experience was a bargin. Even if you don't quite meet your coworkers perceived value. Maybe that's an area if the business you need to look into.

    Given the fact that your coworker was hired at a higher salary in a high demand area of the business that you were passed over for would indicate that his value as perceived by the company is/was greater, still you need to be prepared that you still might not be able to replace him if he leaves your company. But, it sounds like the demand for your skills might just be greater and worth more elsewhere.

11. AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 9:35PM UTC

    The lesson to learn here is the answer is always no until you ask.
    You hit a very important point. The average female does not negotiate their salaries and that does play a role why we are not equally or more compared to our male colleagues. In your situation gender could have played a role, but also consider other factors. Sometimes people with less experience either perform better. Or on the other hand, they just carry a level of charisma that enables them to charm their way from role to role. You can only control what is in your preview. Stop comparing yourself to other people. Only compete with yourself. The next you receive an offer, research and come up with justifications of why you should be paid what you are worth. If your colleague has job offers from other places it’s likely because he is very competitive and continues to apply and put himself out there to continue to to receive offers, so no don’t quit. Learn from your friend and try to mirror some of the things that made him successful. If you receive a higher paying offer, use that as a bargaining chip. Do everything within your power to make it difficult for them to say no

12. AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:10PM UTC

    Poster: I think you hit on an important point about the situation, that he brings male confidence and charisma that I just can't seem to muster these days. It's not how I started in my career but it's where I've ended up.

    I see two options, I can either force myself to act more like him, mirror him as you day, or not compare myself to him or anyone and just be the best me. Those seem like two different directions.

13. AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:39PM UTC

    I think it’s really about confidence and sometimes it takes time to find your mojo that makes you unique and project that. I think everyone has their own form of charm and charisma. It’s just that some know how to harness and apply it better than others. It’s okay, many females that work in male dominated roles have to constantly figure out how to navigate their environment where it’s not always easy to be yourself. From what I learned about you, part of your power is in your experience. What works for me is for every environment I work in, I try to figure out where they are deficient and try to be a resource to leadership in that aspect. I also learned to become stingy sometimes when sharing ideas with colleagues, bc it still is competitive and they will steal and use your ideas. So I am confident you have what it takes you just need the visibility to be aligned with an environment to allow you to be the rockstar, you already know you are, so continue to move with confidence in yourself and the rest with follow. Be persistent in applying for what you want. And ignore all the naysayers… they are nobody

14. AnonymousJune 28,2022 at 12:42PM UTC

    Confidence is one thing and arrogance is another. If men know they get paid more for being men and not for actual work or skills, that’s not charisma, that’s arrogance.

    That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to find your confidence again. You’ve got the experience and the knowledge. Perhaps you need to be challenged to reignite excitement. Perhaps it’s giving time to other endeavors outside of work to fill your cup.

    Point is, this scenario is common and will be more common as we get older. How would you like to feel when this happens again?

15. AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 12:26PM UTC

    There is much to learn from this experience, but I will say that HR, hiring managers, whomever, really need to think about what happens when, not if, the more senior and experienced employee(s) find out they’ve hired someone new for better compensation. Especially when everyone knows the newbie will not stay long term.

    It kills morale and you end up losing your best people - you know, the ones that get the job done and will stick around! The days of “don’t discuss salary” are long gone. They will find out, and most will leave - no discussion, no oppy to make it right, just gone.

16. AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:15PM UTC

    I’d suggest you start looking and keep looking. Any company that’s willing to short your salary by so much is a company with very poor character. Do you like the work that you do? Someone else will hire you and pay what you’re worth. Don’t settle, and don’t be afraid to choose another path that’s best for you. Best of luck

17. AnonymousAugust 31,2022 at 2:11PM UTC

    I was thinking the same thing! However how are the other companies?

18. AnonymousJune 26,2022 at 2:27AM UTC

    I had something similar that happened to me. I recommend talking to your supervisor and look at your most recent evaluation.

    For me, I brought it up and at the end of the day discovered I could no longer grow at my workplace. I recently accepted a job offer but I am glad I brought it up.

    It made their new supervisor aware and they personally came to me in shock and brought it up to their higher up.

19. Joni Roberson FactorJune 26,2022 at 12:57PM UTC

    Always try to negotiate. Sometimes there is room. Sometimes there isn't. As someone who extends offers and gets to celebrate in that joyful moment, I always want to get the candidate the best possible compensation.

    That being said, you now have knowledge that is eating away at you. I would absolutely go to your boss and/or HR and ask for an increase. Ideally, you are a strong performer and beyond this inequity can also indicate your performance is due for an increase beyond his compensation. At the end of the day, you will be told yes or no. You will then know if you need to go elsewhere. It doesn't need to be a threat. It can be a quiet realization. But just because you didn't advocate for yourself at offer doesn't mean you have to stay silent now.

20. AnonymousJune 26,2022 at 3:59PM UTC

    I've also been in the position of discovering I was paid far less than my peers (the reasons were different, but it is very aggravating no matter the cause). I went to my upline (my direct supervisor at the time was wholly ineffective, so I took it to her boss) and pointed out the extreme discrepancy. He ordered an HR review and I received a 15% raise. Still didn't bring me to parity, but it helped significantly. Got another 15% raise when I earned my graduate degree. It's harder to advocate for myself than for my staff, but you can't count on anyone else to do so.

21. AnonymousJune 26,2022 at 11:51PM UTC

    There is still time for you to ask for the compensation that you feel you deserve and still time to negotiate, especially since he may be leaving soon!

22. KelleyJune 28,2022 at 12:30PM UTC

    I recommend going back to them and requesting a raise to hopefully match him if nothing else. Have your valid reasoning ready too aside from just that you have similar positions (your experience and degree, etc.). Always advocate for yourself because sometimes you’re the only person who will.

23. AnonymousJune 28,2022 at 1:18PM UTC

    Your lower salary has nothing directly to do with you being a woman. It’s because you didn’t take the risk to ask for a higher salary. Now, that may be because of a female habit, but you can’t transfer that to the company. Now you know for the next job interview.

24. AnonymousJune 28,2022 at 2:58PM UTC

    I disagree with this a little bit. This same type of situation happened to me and we had the same exact job. The male colleague didn’t even negotiate his salary, I actually did. I had way more experience and way more of a network coming into the role plus I had tenure at the company. He was making significantly more than me and so I kept asking more individuals their pay and it came down to the men were actually making more. But in my case it was because they needed more male diversity at the company or so that’s what HR said. I ended up leaving since I was working harder and on more complex projects and getting paid less than market value.

25. KathyJune 28,2022 at 6:39PM UTC

    If they have to pay more to attract men, it means the women are grossly under paid.
    HR is completely untrustworthy when it comes to salary information and justification. Don't ever believe them. Leaving was your best move.

26. AnonymousJune 28,2022 at 2:29PM UTC

    I work for a smaller company. We’ve been building out our operations team over the past few years to support the core business. When we create new roles, HR relies on the hiring manager to determine salary. Maybe the hiring manager didn’t know the local salary range for your peer’s position, or local market research determined a lower salary was fair for your role.

    My advice is to do your own research. Your peer may have benefited from his hiring manager not knowing what to pay. Or maybe you are underpaid for your market. If you find the local market range is above your pay, document what you find. Also prepare a list of accomplishments you’ve achieved in your role. If you find openings with more competitive benefits, submit your resume.

    After you’ve done your research, approach your leader to have a conversation about fair market salary. No leader wants to lose a great employee. Be professional when you bring up your request for a raise. Demanding a raise never goes well.

    And if you are applying for other roles, keep that to yourself until you’ve secured an offer that is fair and competitive.

    Best of luck!

27. EMILY KIKUE FRANKJune 28,2022 at 4:49PM UTC

    The silver lining is that you now know you really do need to negotiate next time. You can take some steps in the current role (https://hbr.org/2016/03/when-you-find-out-a-coworker-makes-more-money-than-you-do), and you should absolutely get comfortable with negotiating for what's next: https://www.aauw.org/resources/programs/salary/.

    The pay gap is real and it persists.

28. AnonymousJune 28,2022 at 11:02PM UTC

    While I hope it's less of an issue than it used to be, there's always a risk when you negotiate and the risk is higher for women and people of color, with that risk being additive. This makes it way easier for a white man to confidently and successfully negotiate and way easier for a woman or POC to see an offer evaporate over their audacity. I really wish people would quit playing games and just offer a fair wage for the work. I know that's not the way it works for everyone, but I think that should be our collective goal.

29. Liz MilneJune 29,2022 at 4:06PM UTC

    Why are your feelings hurt?

    You were offered a salary within a range and accepted that - the time for negotiation and haggling was then.

    My best advice, if you want that length of experience in the job (you say you already felt undervalued, so maybe getting out is your solution?) is to wait until he goes, and then ask for a raise to match what he had been earning. Then a new employee can come in on your old salary, so the company won't have the excuse of 'not enough budget'.

30. Clydene HorriganJuly 1,2022 at 3:18AM UTC

    You said his role is slightly different and more in demand. Do you have the skillset to apply for his role when he leaves?

31. AnonymousJuly 1,2022 at 6:11PM UTC

    I am definitely picking up some of those skills.
    My manager knows he's getting offers and on the way out and may be shifting tasks over bit by bit. So I would probably be covering his role and mine just based on how hiring has been going. Meaning I will need to be vigilant about asking for an appropriate raise when I move past learning those skills into handling them.

32. SUZANNE SWANSONAugust 31,2022 at 12:59PM UTC

    Wow!

33. AnonymousAugust 31,2022 at 2:06PM UTC

    it could be the same elsewhere but I would be tempted to look at least. To ke that is gender discrimination!

34. AnonymousAugust 31,2022 at 2:14PM UTC

    After reading all of these comments may I ask what type of area do you live in? Where I live a smaller city that is failing there are only so many opportunities. It is a lesser ex populace to live, and we do not have horrible weather that is seen in the news except snow.