Seeking advice for dealing with a toxic manager and his employee who report to me.

38 Comments

1. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 3:09PM UTC

   I'm trying to say this as gently as possible, but as a senior manager (since you have managers working for you), being a "people pleaser" is not in your job description. The first non-value-added item you need to put on your list is listening to hours of these two griping about [whatever].

   Perhaps you can start by pulling the team together for a "come to Jesus" meeting and explaining that the merger is done and there is no going back. You are tasked with determining what they do that is valuable and what is not. The one thing that is not valuable is pushing back at every suggestion and listening to them gripe about it, so those will be the first two things on your list. Tell them the things you ask are essential steps in this process and not meant to be critical of what they do. Don't make suggestions, give orders, and from this day on, that is how they are to take them. If they have a problem with your suggestion/order, they must have a better one (that cannot be "we've always done it this way").

   In my first management position, I had one of these two people, and I can tell you now that they will bring the whole team down. The toxic one in my case compromised a valued client we used as a reference, and once I found that out, I had no choice but to fire him. Senior management was brought in and agreed with me, even though this guy was one of the team's most valued minds (in expertise only). After he was gone, so was the toxic effect. Productivity and creativity doubled, and the entire team worked as a collaborative unit. Sometimes you must go through the fire to get to the fresh air on the other side. I wish you luck with this one.

2. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 6:53PM UTC

   Sounds like she doesn’t have the power to discipline and fire. She’s been handed a hot mess by her ED and should return the favor n

3. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 6:54PM UTC

   Thank you so much for your candid feedback. I need to hire you as a mentor! This employee is the exact example that you had in your first management role and everyone warned me that this person would be difficult to deal with. My first next step will be the 'come to Jesus' talk with the next step being to enforce ' no more complaining policy'. I love your feedback and hearing it gives me the confidence that I am doing the right thing! Thank you for taking the time to reply.

4. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 7:53PM UTC

   That's absolutely a great reply. I agree wholeheartedly. Bad seeds do nothing but taint the foundation by which companies operate. Once the negativity is gone, the vibe changes, and people produce, happily. As I always say, you have a choice, save one, or save however many other employees you have. It's up to you.

5. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 4:03PM UTC

   Have you talked to your executive director about their unwillingness to cooperate with explaining what they do and collaborate on potentially making their department more efficient? If you haven't, maybe that means there's a different approach available to you (like another said, you can't be a people pleaser right now). If you truly feel like there's nothing else you can do to get these folks on board, you have to escalate it before it looks like the problem is YOU not doing the task assigned you.

6. misskelleypMay 22,2025 at 5:42PM UTC

   those two need to go, they are the bad apples that will infect the entire barrel if you let them go on. Start documenting, talk to your HR and Manager to find out what you need to do to send them on their way. Attitude is everything.

7. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 6:11PM UTC

   Well you sound like a delight that’s been hitched up with a bunch of malcontented losers. In my experience these folks make their way by bitching and doing nothing. You need to recognize there’s nothing you can do to turn that around. Stay out of it as much as possible and let your boss take the lead. This is his team and not yours. Document your findings to him stating that the team seems frustrated and unhappy and it is behind the scope of your job to fix what they are complaining about. And wish him good luck.

8. AnonymousMay 22,2025 at 7:49PM UTC

   First off, you are a manager. As I'm reading this I understand you manage a toxic manager and their employee, which indirectly reports to you. Managing others is not roses and butterflies. It's hard work. However, you have power. Set up 1:1 meetings with your manager each week. Set the stage, set the tone. Make an agenda, and get concrete answers not the run-around. If they cannot perform, report to your director and HR to get advice how to terminate. As a manager, part of your role is dealing with conflict, and yes, terminating people. It's an ugly business, but it's necessary for companies to run and to run smoothly. Bad seeds do not need to be in a place where you are trying to fertilize the ground. If it's poison or in your words toxic, then get rid of the toxicity and get them out.

9. Liz MilneMay 23,2025 at 12:21PM UTC

   a) tell the manager that you have a directive from the executive director to improve the team and that you're sensing reluctance from him in coming on board with the new direction of the company. Let him know that he is seeming to be the dead wood she has instructed you to cut loose and ask if that is how he wants things to continue

   b) go back to the executive director and tell her the above without giving him a chance to improve - I get the impression she already knows he's the problem...

10. AnonymousMay 23,2025 at 12:35PM UTC

    Your first step is to let go of the “people pleaser” part of you, people can sense that about you and take advantage. You were given this opportunity because your director believed you were right for the job so that means taking control of the situation. I would meet with them both individually & ask how they feel they can improve their attitude toward your instruction (not suggestions) & if their answer is well when we were the other company we did it this way; they have to be told the old way doesn’t work with your newly merged company and things have to change to fit the new company needs. If you don’t feel their actions are improving it will be time to move it up the ladder. I say all these things because I have been a manager with toxic employees and unfortunately after being dismissed from a job I realized I could have been toxic to that company (although my immediate manager disagreed, her boss (the owner) saw otherwise). I would let them know that you are no longer suggesting what they should do you are giving instructions as to what they must do and that is it without push back

11. GirlBossanova934974May 23,2025 at 1:45PM UTC

    A couple of things right off the bat. 1) You are NOT dealing with passive-aggressive subordinates here. These folks don't like their coworkers and they don't try to hide it. 2) A people pleaser is NOT what is needed in this assignment. Either change or report back to your boss; this is not for you. 3) I see almost NOTHING mentioned about the actual WORK here. Are these 2 doing their work? Yes or No?

    All that being said, I would switch to a TASK-ORIENTED management style. These 2 are deeply resentful of the new ways things are being done. I would roll up my sleeves and show them the new ways and why they are BETTER. See we do NOT waste our times doing all this other stuff. Adds NO value. THIS IS YOUR NUMBER ONE JOB. Make sure the job gets done faster and better. And here are the NEW METRICS. Get it?

    I would drop all the stuff about collaboration ad nauseam. It is dollars and cents here.

12. AnonymousMay 26,2025 at 10:27AM UTC

    A bit harsh in dealing with people in general. Compassion and speaking the truth in love goes a l-o-n-g way. No need to be a brute.

13. GirlBossanova934974May 26,2025 at 4:51PM UTC

    As I said before, these 2 co-workers are not passive-aggressive. In fact, the new management is being rather passive-aggressive. The solution? Just be straight with people. The new owners came in and found a variety of business processes that are wasteful in terms of time and money. We have to fix those problems right away. Roll up your sleeves and lead by example.

14. AnonymousMay 26,2025 at 7:02PM UTC

    Always be straight and honest. But also be kind in doing so.

15. QMay 23,2025 at 2:57PM UTC

    There are two problems to solve here. The first is your primary directive. You were asked to document what they do. Once you know, you can look for opportunities to trim. Stepping in to partner with this team has not been an effective approach so far. To solve the documentation issue you need to be very firm. Professional, but diplomacy can sometimes be hard truths wrapped in kindly delivered words. I agree with the person who said you need to clearly state this is a directive from senior leadership and they need to get on board. If they are unable to document what they do then they are effectively not doing anything of value and can be trimmed. Their response to this will lead your next steps, because the second problem you need to solve is how not to be seen as part of the issue by your senior leadership. They asked for documentation. Time is passing. You have nothing to show. Reasonably, they will consider this a management failure on your part. Concrete steps to document their behavior in a tangible, reportable way becomes essential. If you are co-located in the same building, I also suggest making observation your number one goal. Go where they are. Observe. Tell them you are observing to document daily process. You want to avoid going down with them, though, so you need to be proactive and provide documentation one way or another and it might just have to include documenting then steps you've taken and their response.

16. AnonymousMay 23,2025 at 4:54PM UTC

    Love this response. THANK YOU!

17. AnonymousMay 23,2025 at 3:57PM UTC

    Sit down the manager first and let them know that you have been tasked with an objective from upper level management to cut needless work (even if you think you have done this before). Let them know that you need for them to write out their own job description and that of their direct report. Then ask them to plan a week of work day by day and to include things like meetings. Get IT dept to assure you have full access to their calendars especially since they report to you. This should NOT be an issue. Let them know your goal is to make sure that their team is rewarded for the work they are doing. Then ask them to put all of their complaints into writing as you will no longer air those grievances in any open meetings. Take control. Don't let them control the narrative because if you do then you will be putting the manager on a PIP for not getting the job done. Time box what you give them to do and do not take any excuses for why things are not completed. Be sure to praise them for what they have accomplished thus far. Stay positive when you communicate with them and take a deep breath when you are done with each meeting. You got this sister.

18. AnonymousMay 23,2025 at 4:53PM UTC

    Love this response. Thank you.!

19. AnonymousMay 24,2025 at 3:44PM UTC

    OP above, you are welcome!

20. Carolyn LefflerMay 24,2025 at 1:58PM UTC

    There is a great book from Cy Wakeman that could be very helpful to you. It is "No Ego: How Leaders Can Cut the Cost of Workplace Drama, End Entitlement, and Drive Big Results". It was very helpful to me on dealing with these type of issues. Puts the power back in your hands.

21. Carolyn LefflerMay 24,2025 at 1:59PM UTC

    There is a great book from Cy Wakeman that could be very helpful to you. It is "No Ego: How Leaders Can Cut the Cost of Workplace Drama, End Entitlement, and Drive Big Results". It was very helpful to me on dealing with these type of issues. Puts the power back in your hands.

22. AnonymousMay 24,2025 at 2:34PM UTC

    Write up everything you know now and make it known loud and clear that these people cannot prove that they do Anything (!) valuable. Period.

    add details about your interactions with them. Send it to upper management and let them deal with it. After 6 months of this nonsense, it must be escalated immediately.

23. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netMay 25,2025 at 1:56PM UTC

    I totally agree with this. Do it immediately and let upper management deal with it immediately.

24. AnonymousMay 24,2025 at 3:39PM UTC

    I can really relate to your situation, having worked in Human Resources where I navigated similar challenges, including layoffs and a merger. In those circumstances, many employees had deep concerns about changes, and like you, I was tasked with solutions to maintain stability and morale.

    What helped me was allowing employees to vent and express frustrations—but only in one session. This acknowledged their feelings and built rapport. However, after that, the focus shifted to solutions and moving forward. It’s critical to avoid endless gripe sessions that derail progress and reinforce negativity.

    Another strategy I used was documenting issues immediately and reporting them up the chain. This ensured transparency and let leadership know I was proactive, not just reactive. If I were in your shoes, I’d be inclined to do the same:

    Document resistance, missed communications, and accountability gaps.

    Report regularly to your executive director to keep them informed and to seek guidance.

    Set boundaries with the toxic manager by stating expectations and sticking to them firmly.

    Most importantly, don’t internalize their negativity. It’s not about you; it’s about change resistance, which many struggle with post-merger. Your executive director entrusted you with this task, likely because they believe in your ability to meet the challenge. Stay patient, document everything, set clear goals, and seek solutions that align with the company’s broader initiatives. You’ve got this!

25. AyianMay 25,2025 at 12:52PM UTC

    I agree with all of this and would like to add that toxic personnel are themselves an activity that is not value added. The extra time it takes to even attempt to get them to do something different or have communication is unnecessary and unhelpful. If unaddressed, the attitude will continue after things have settled and they will be unruly and negatively affect others who have to interact with them. Documenting and reporting as suggested is vital here and, I would add, so is the negative attitude. If communicating behavioral and professional boundaries and expectations is not received, someone else can then make an attempt before employment decisions are made.

    You might also try having them write their own SOP for their roles. If they complete it, departure from the organization does not result in losing everything they know about their function. If they don't, they've provided yet another example of why the organization might like to replace them with more cooperative personnel.

26. Bonnie HyattMay 25,2025 at 2:49PM UTC

    This is great info. I would suggest one extra step. I would start the next conversation with acknowledging that they have been heard and you have made note. Then go straight into saying that your job is to get their feedback on how those areas can be improved and you cannot do that living in the past, so you need suggestions not complaints. Then I would document this entire meeting and send it to the director with an explanation of what has taken place so far and how you are working to resolve it. One more thing..........you say this manager reports to you? Do you have the authority to issue warnings? BTW, all of these things can be done from a place of caring, at least in the beginning........think how you would want a customer service agent to show some compassion and understanding when you have to call the about something. They can do this while still delivering the message.

27. AnonymousMay 26,2025 at 10:19AM UTC

    Perfect response .... OP, you've got this!!

28. AnonymousMay 24,2025 at 7:43PM UTC

    Read up about change management. It has good tips to get buy in from all parties. Then hopefully you'll be able to work with them.

29. AnonymousMay 27,2025 at 2:02PM UTC

    This is the path forward.

30. AnonymousMay 25,2025 at 5:04AM UTC

    They could be worried about their job security. If that is not the intention, then you can explain that it is similar to a mergers and acquisition stage and that you are streamlining the operations to meet industry standards such as ISO and that it is a company-wide initiative.

31. AnonymousMay 25,2025 at 1:09PM UTC

    Well that was helpful

32. Informed CitizenMay 25,2025 at 12:41PM UTC

    Not to sound too “organization man”, but do you not have HR guidelines for work interactions? Or a contact in the hierarchy that might address bad behavior? Expecting an adult to explain why, even in today’s world of “grab em” idiocy, there are boundaries. Respect for others is fundamental.! Though missing in so many….Seems difficult to think a work climate can still breed or hide brutish misogynistic behavior, but that’s the world we tolerate.

33. Bonnie HyattMay 25,2025 at 2:45PM UTC

    I usually pass right by comments I disagree with, but in this case, I felt the need to speak out. I feel this comment is obviously not helpful but also unnecessary and hurtful. I'm guessing you have not spent much time in a corporate environment where HR sometimes partners with others to complete projects. This is not unusual and is typically a good opportunity for one to boost their career. Plus it looks good on a resume. OP would have no way of knowing she would meet this type of resistance and apparently is doing well with the other teams. I'm guessing this manager is salty because he was not offered the position and is dragging his friend along in the b**ch-fest.

34. maria roseMay 25,2025 at 7:20PM UTC

    Since the OP says that they approach everyone with the intent of making any situation better, the situation interchange with this team is a bit of an eye-opener for the OP, who may not have ever had to be the one who has to evaluate and make corrections with individuals who are pretty set in their opinion on how things should occur ( the references made in discussion emphasize this). The team must be long term good performers that just need to upgrade their work skills to whatever new standards the company is changing to. But this people pleaser OP doesn’t feel comfortable with being direct about the direction they want these individuals to achieve. The OP has been given several good examples of what to do to achieve this goal, even if it goes against their tendency to be more people pleaser .

35. AnonymousMay 26,2025 at 10:17AM UTC

    Unkind and not a helpful response.

36. AnonymousMay 26,2025 at 1:08PM UTC

    Do they do a weekly report to report on activities accomplished during the week?

37. Joyce GioiaMay 26,2025 at 6:11PM UTC

    I find that the best language to use in cases like this is, "Please help me understand . . ."

38. Titra HamiltonMay 29,2025 at 2:29PM UTC

    I encountered the same from a few when performing business process engineering and process compliance consulting to a federal government client. One employee flat out said that I could not make him change how he did his work and refused to speak to me because he feared elimination from his job. First of all, your executive should have provided "executive cover", explaining the purpose for your involvement, stating the clear expectation that cooperating with you is required and greatly appreciated, acknowledging job security concerns and describing any opportunities for transfers if it comes to that, and honestly describing why now, why is being more efficient necessary now. With that messaging, you review any process documentation first, shadow employees with a focus on learning. Let them describe inputs, outputs, process steps, tools, the good and the bad. Consider asking questions like, "Instead of this process step, what do you need? And when you have that, what do you have?" Document results for your collaborative review. Get their ideas on how to improve. They may eventually recommend cuts. You never know. Consider sharing interim versions of notes, with non-attribution of course, as well as drafts of the final report with process flows included. You do this to gain their trust and buy in on any solutions, and to build a rapport. For the immediate need, speak to them directly, preferably in person, about needing to be in meetings. Emphasis the positive, that they can control/set/reset the narrative via your involvement. Finally, escalate if you don't get invited to meetings. Be specific and address everything needed to succeed that you are not getting or cannot find. You should be empathetic, but you need to be firm to get your work done. And do considering read up on Change Management as another contributor posted. Good luck.