How would you approach this?

Anonymous

November 5,2021 at 6:59PM UTC

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How would you approach this? Advice very much appreciated.

So the 'Great Resignation' just keeps coming. I officially have lost 4/5 of my team over the last few months. Its been awesome (completely sarcastic) but now I am getting applicants with completely UNREALISTIC salary expectations.

Now I'm so confused, I get that the market is supposedly 'sooo great' hence why I've been losing people but these people were here long before I was, so I also think they have hit the 2+ year burnout and their career wants are taking them elsewhere - totally understandable..

Here's the kicker, I talk to my boss about what I'm getting for applicants and what they are requesting as base salary (which is hard to swallow as in every case its at least $20k more than I make!!) and she says 'well I wonder if that is the going rate right now?' Uhhh if that is the going rate than I need to also move on because I just can't justify paying new hires $20-30k base more than I make, the person that will be directly managing them?? I do the work of about 15 of them right now, but I should pay them more than I make. I also live in one of the most expensive places in the US, soooo if anything I guess I'm realizing I am very under paid in this market.. Anyway how do you reconcile this disconnect with your manager? How do I reasonably say "I am doing the work of the entire team now, including my manager responsibilities - managing HR, hiring, my entire departments BUDGET, etc - but I am expected to offer someone to report to me, to do far less work (I know their job responsibilities) more than I make or would even make with my bonus???" someone help me! I love my job but I know it won't make me feel warm and fuzzy to have people underneath me making that much over me doing less work with less responsibilities.

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AnonymousNovember 5,2021 at 7:58PM UTC
I would approach it in this way if I were in this position:
Bring it back up with my boss in a 1:1 with all the details laid out - the conversation previously had around new hire comp, research on current market rates for similar roles these new hires would be filling, and everything I'm doing in my role.
Then share that if we're bringing in people for x position who will be reporting to me at x rate, and my role involves xyz, let's discuss my compensation for the work I am doing.
Again, laying out everything I do and my accomplishments while speaking positively of the organization and my desire to help the company through this next phase. I would come prepared with some comparison data around salaries/rates for my role or roles like mine too - data support can be helpful.
If I felt comfortable with my boss and establish trust then I would be honest in sharing that I love my job but will lose the warm fuzzy feelings should those reporting to me be making more than I do with less responsibility.
AnonymousNovember 5,2021 at 8:50PM UTC
Your compensation is obviously too low but it's weird you're only finding out about this because applicants are reflecting what market value truly is.
I'm would guess your reports didn't leave due to burnout. They left to make more $ for their work.
For you to be competently staffed, I'm afraid you will need to pay them considerably more than you're making.
KatNovember 5,2021 at 9:23PM UTC
It sounds like your boss is not up to date on what the appropriate compensation amounts are for anyone. Do the research on how much the new hires should be getting. Then figure out how much you should be making for supervising those new hires. Sounds like you're grossly underpaid and overworked. If your boss isn't willing to come up your compensation to at least 30K more (or what the market rate is beyond that) it's time to start looking for a new job where you're paid what you're worth.
AnonymousNovember 5,2021 at 10:14PM UTC
This is the going rate. Inflation is crazy. I think this opens the door to having the same convo with your boss about your role. But hire your direct reports high first. :) get your team so you can look if you need do. Btw, what kind of work is it?
AnonymousNovember 5,2021 at 11:19PM UTC
Excellent strategy.
Nancy CincottaNovember 6,2021 at 12:40PM UTC
I'm curious if this will diminish her negotiating power if she waits until she is staffed (after the hard work of manning the ship AND building a team). I'm tempted to say that she should get adequately paid for the usual role, then tackle the enormous job of building a team while doing the work of the team.
AnonymousNovember 5,2021 at 11:17PM UTC
No one wants to find out that they're making less than people in comparable, or lesser, jobs at their company but it's probably happened to all of us. I know people will give you great advice to have a discussion with your boss about compensation but I want to mention something I've shared before, here. There is a risk in leaving one's job and looking for something else. You might have to do a lot of work to get ready for that. or more schooling. A move. Just plain initiative and stick-to-it-ive-ness and the hope that where you land is a good choice. And that kind of behavior gets rewarded (or should). You have not had to do much of that b/c you have stayed where you are. So while I know it doesn't feel good, remember that you have traded 'safety' for going out on a limb and that is worth money too. Good luck.
Mindy SwankNovember 6,2021 at 12:11PM UTC
Sounds like you’re being underpaid. I’d definitely suggest looking elsewhere and seeing what you’re really worth. Not taking it out on other people. If multiple people are all asking for the same amount, it sounds like your company is underpaying.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 12:18PM UTC
I think it's time for you to also start looking elsewhere for a job.
Mary KerdashaNovember 6,2021 at 12:21PM UTC
That is frustrating, but they have not hired anyone at that rate yet. I would do the interviews and get those people hired for whatever rate the company agrees to pay them. Then approach the company with your additional responsibilities and your title to see if you cannot get a raise. If not, then my advice is you will also need to be looking elsewhere like your other team members who already left probably realized too.
Ana SasmiresanNovember 6,2021 at 12:29PM UTC
Don’t throw in the towel before doing a market analysis for your job and the job titles reporting to you. Present the analysis to your manager with a proposal to increase all base salaries. There are many resources and you could also use my company’s salary calculator by Googleling Randstad Salary Calculator.
When presenting the findings list not just job titles and market rates but also responsibilities by job. Also try to not be emotional when presenting and don’t focus on ‘I’m not getting paid enough’ but on the fact that the market rates have shifted and in order for the department/business to thrive and retain the employees and adjustment is mandatory. Good luck!
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 12:42PM UTC
Sweetheart – You are being targeted as the next to go. Be assured that they will hire someone for more than you currently make. These kinds of mind games are meant to cripple you emotionally. Learn to set boundaries. Say nothing, and start looking for a new job. Your conversations with your boss should be "Yes, Ma'am, OK, Yup." There is nothing new under the sun. These kinds of strategies have always existed. That new person will be gone when the time is right too. They are just a pawn in the game of chess—the Queen's Gambit. When things are hidden and don't make sense, that is called strategy. Don’t be naïve. Return strategy with strategy. Hope this helps.
Jackie GhedineNovember 6,2021 at 12:45PM UTC
If I could tell you how often I hear this, you are not alone.
The longer people stay in their jobs, the less money they make. The average rage is 2-3% annually when you stay within a company. The average increase when you leave for a new job is 10-20% increase. See the gap?
This doesn't mean you have to leave. What this means is you need a strategy to negotiate your salary.
1. Outline all of your accomplishments and the invaluable skills you bring to your current positions.
2. Understand the bottom line benefits of what you do and write them down because you will need to drive home the benefit to the organization.
3. Do market research, what is the salary for your position in your market. Arm yourself with statistics and data.
4. Declare your worth. Confidently call a meeting to negotiate a salary increase
5. Build your negotiation container, what are the levels of salary you are willing to accept, what other 'perks' can be part of your ask.
Then go out there and get what you deserve and what you're worth.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 12:45PM UTC
It’s time to talk to your manager about your own salary expectations. I worked for a company for 10 years, and eventually decided to leave. The very first job after leaving paid me about 45% more than I was making at the company I left after 10 years. As far as the people reporting to you making more, it’s a candidate’s market right now. Companies that keep up will attract top talent, and those that don’t will continue to have people leave. At some point I’m sure you’ll leave too just like the rest of your team members, if your management team doesn’t keep up with the market rate. Glassdoor is a great tool to use in finding out what people are making given their industry, years of experience, job title, etc.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 12:46PM UTC
Unfortunately, you’ve ran into one of the reasons the great resignation exists. Companies have not thought through the problems that come from hiring people at the new going rate. Which, in turn, causes their management team to realize they are hiring people that make more than they do.
You have some good advice from other posts on how to approach this, but just be aware that there’s a good chance you’ll have to move on to get what you’re worth as well. Wishing you the best!
Karen lindquistNovember 6,2021 at 1:03PM UTC
I agree with the approach of researching what others are hiring at for your job, and laying out an approach that illustrates how you know your job and do it well, and that you like your job and would stay if they could meet the going salary for that job.
Maybe send out some resumes to interview before you confront your management over it. It’s always best to have an offer or two in hand before requesting a salary increase.
I’ve had a few good people interview with me at my business, but i could tell they liked their current job position and would stay there if they were getting paid what they deserved. So I’ve actually told them to go back to their current boss and tell them they have an offer of more money but would like to stay in their current job if their boss can meet that salary.
It’s really difficult to find good help these days, so don’t sell yourself short.
Lomaxruiter@yahoo.comNovember 6,2021 at 1:11PM UTC
I agree with doing some comp research and presenting your ask to management. I don’t agree with sharing a job offer in hand as a bargaining tool. The approach I take when folks resign for other opportunities is to wish them well and invite them to keep in touch (if we’d want them back). Offering more money to keep someone on is a desperate move and is often too little too late, once an employee has made the decision to seek opportunities elsewhere, they’ve moved on. As a CEO, we use an outside resource to provide competitive compensation. We evaluate all existing positions periodically to ensure we can compete. As a small employer (70 employees), we just don’t have a lot of growth opportunities.
Violet Cassidy-Maroke (She/her)November 6,2021 at 1:23PM UTC
Some employers will not appreciate it if you come at them with a job offer. It can certainly damage trust.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 2:48PM UTC
... and then you'll have your answer and can move on without regret.
Angie MartinNovember 6,2021 at 1:03PM UTC
I would look at what I was doing, not just in terms of title, but actual job duties. See what other professionals are making and approach your boss with this information.
As for hiring people with less experience and fewer job duties for a larger salary, it all depends on the industry. Tech fields tend to have higher entry level salaries, and many salespeople make much more in terms of compensation than their managers due to comission and bonuses.
Maybe there is a happy medium out there, but it may be that you need to move on. Great resignation or not, 80% of the team leaving means something is off with your employer.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 1:05PM UTC
Negotiate for yourself first. In my experience even good companys take advantage of loyalty and hard work, intentential or not. I left a company that had lost sight of what they were paying as they got lost in pursuit of growth. If you love this job and the people are good, you owe it to yourself to fight for better. If you get push back for asking or find yourself defending poor leadership or culture, it’s time to see what’s out there. It may just surprise you.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 1:06PM UTC
Do the market analysis, if you choose, but look for another job at the same time. Your current employer will not bump up your salary by $20k even though you gave her the data to support it. Then, take steps to manage your career by excelling at your field and setting boundaries. It can be done.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 1:22PM UTC
They are getting a bargin with you. They know it and now you know it. Your staff moved on for this reason and now you are faced with hiring others at substantially higher levels. This is a normal evolution of resources and market pressures.
Moving forward you'll need to keep an eye on market trends so you don't fall so far behind. It's not good for your career.
Sarah LarsonNovember 6,2021 at 3:43PM UTC
Exactly, you have the skills, why are you selling yourself on a discount? Why do they deserve your time ‘on sale’?
Violet Cassidy-Maroke (She/her)November 6,2021 at 1:22PM UTC
Sounds like it's time for a total rewards overhaul. They should red circle you and move you up so that salary compression isn't happening. Salary compression is where someone incoming is making closer to what you do after years of raises.
Dawn McDonnellNovember 6,2021 at 1:30PM UTC
Hi there as a business partner with my husband we have found that what you are experiencing is happening in many businesses across many different kinds of businesses. My advice woukd be to structure salary with the salary you want to provide with a commission/incentive structure giving a 90 day window to an increase in salary so you can witness capabilities and value . If they are going to be your peers reach out now to your boss and create a structured job profile with all that you personally do with a monetary value attached so everyone knows. This new group out there looking is fishing and most likely will leave again soon after hired to COLLECT unemployment insurance which takes a bite out of businesses in workmans compensation.
You will win in the long run .
Be clear, specific with job roles and responsibilities that you yourself do so future employees are aware & competent to do all that you do plus some.
It’s going to take some strategic planning in Human Resources.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 4:46PM UTC
Salary ranges, etc are not mine to set or give. I cannot change the structure or incentive package of the company. HR sets those (we are a corporation).
FlossyNovember 6,2021 at 1:40PM UTC
Sounds like you like your company and job. So my advice is geared toward that answer. Otherwise, you are clearly underpaid and under appreciated . 80% of your team figured that out and left.
Do a salary analysis. Career builder and indeed have tools. Pull similar job descriptions. Many have salary ranges. Contact staffing agencies or headhunters and get their take on the market. Pull all this together. Shouldn’t take too long and present it. If they won’t budge on your salary, time to leave and save yourself.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 2:19PM UTC
I’ll be honest—I left a job I liked okay for a job that had more things I wanted, because the job market is hot and my skills are in demand. My previous employer was inflexible on many fronts. I’m at a point in my career (over age 50) where money is no longer #1 and quality of life is. I know have more flexible hours and more vacation time. And a slightly higher salary. Perhaps in the interview process you can find out what applicants want—it may not always be money.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 2:35PM UTC
I just had this happen to me this month…..I hired an employee and they will make 25k more than I currently do. At first it was hard to swallow but…..it is worth me not working 70+ hours a week and not burning out. Besides I was happy with my salary before and right now my sanity is worth every penny.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 4:44PM UTC
I wish this was the best way to look at it. Currently I am doing the work of 5 even with the two I hired since I am doing their 'jobs' while they get up-to-speed and learn the company, job, etc. It will be the same when I replace these two openings I have. So for the near foreseeable future I am doing the work of all and hiring someone doesn't automatically take that work off my plate. Even with my direct reports I still have an entire job managing them as well as my actual role managing the department and budget.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 2:45PM UTC
I think you may be losing your "love" for this job. If the market is so hot that people with lower-level skills are pulling in $20k more than you do, then perhaps it's your turn to jump ship. At the least, threatening to leave if you don't get a raise might be an option. Obviously, you & your team are not as replaceable as your overlords think you are.
The old expressions come to mind: Make hay while the sun shines, and strike while the iron's hot!
Laura DeVriesNovember 6,2021 at 6:59PM UTC
It was not clear from your message that you brought up your own salary concerns with your boss. Your boss may not have your salary figures in the top of her mind. I would not threaten, but have a reasonable discussion including salary data and your accomplishments, in a separate meeting with her. Don’t expect that the new salary will reflect the extra work you are shouldering temporarily, but you could negotiate extra time off be taken when things get back to “normal”. Remember that your boss is under constraints and limitations beyond her control too, but she should be willing to do what she can to get you up to scale.
Johann BothaNovember 6,2021 at 3:18PM UTC
There is one thing that I always told people who tried to leverage me with an offer to stay with better conditions. 'If you decided to go (which you obviously seriously considered, otherwise you would not have applied for other jobs), then mentally you already left the organization. No dad feelings, its time to g(r)o(w).
By all means take the offer and see what is out there, if you ever feel that you made a mistake, have confidence to call me and we will chat again. I have never made a counter offer where the employee did not leave in any case within 6 months because of that head-shift that already took place.
Before looking for another job, if you really want to stay with the company, say to your boss that you are going to do a bit of research, once you have the facts and figures and renegotiate your salary (if most of the people you had supporting you are gone - your boss would not be very bright if they did not look after you).
If they don't want to and clearly there is demand out there go for it and look for the next opportunity.
I have however found that working in a great environment is worth more than a crappy one with good pay!
Good luck!
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 4:41PM UTC
Thank you. This is very helpful.
Kelly LeBlancNovember 6,2021 at 3:44PM UTC
I personally wouldn't want to stay at that company.
When you had that discussion with your boss and made your concerns clear she responded that maybe that's the going rate right now. She didn't seem concerned about really addressing your concern, which is you deserve more than less experienced people you would be managing. If she was she would have offered to look into having your salary adjusted to the current market.
If the idea of making less than people reporting to you really bothers you it is time to move on.
Jan StaffordNovember 6,2021 at 4:01PM UTC
Just my opinion, but I think that the pandemic has fundamentally changed the way people think about work. Employees in many industries considered essential workers were/are overworked and underpaid, and not always employed by companies took measures to protect them during the pandemic. Some employees were offered to work remotely while others perfectly capable of doing so we’re not. The result of the pandemic has created a fight or flight mentality among blue collar workers. They want to be respected, earn enough pay to live comfortably/survive, and experience work/life balance. Hence, applicant pools of unqualified job candidates hoping for better paying jobs, and people leaving jobs to find better ones.
Crystal Miller O'BrienNovember 6,2021 at 4:04PM UTC
I would take your boss up on her offer and research salaries for the roles you are posting. You can do this by either looking at Glassdoor or even here on Fairygodboss for comparable roles that share expected wages, or visit the US Department of Labor Statistics website to see wages per regions for the roles you are searching.
If the companies compensation ranges are not within scale, this could inform you to advocate for higher wages (yours included). Rather than “jumping ship,” you could pivot your situation to help you gain valuable executive skills so that you manage your COO-in actuality to build skills you may have to demonstrate you have to your next prospective employers in a year or so…when the market for your move from this company could land you possibly $100k/year more. In other words, use this opportunity of wearing so many hats to leverage a teaching ground that you can play out in real time and without having to pay for a seminar or grad school.
Hang in there.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 4:23PM UTC
If you’re the manager of other people then your responsibilities should garner a higher wage and for your manager not to acknowledge your salary and contributions is a red flag of the leadership in the company and may also be a reason others left. The salary expectations of applicants is a clear indicator that you are underpaid in the market and under appreciated in your position. Believe in your capabilities and your worth!
Joanne RosenNovember 6,2021 at 4:50PM UTC
Ouch! Tough spot.
Sit down with your boss and create a proper salary scale and rubric. There should be a total plan that also fits within the budget. This also needs to include potential bonuses. In other words, a proper HR budget.
With the rubric, if the new hire ticks all the boxes, they get the top salary. Missing a few? It goes down but has room to grow.
Make sure YOUR position is included in that overall HR package with a proper increase for you if that is the going salary.
A lot of what is happening in the Great Resignation is that employees are realizing their company isn't that wonderful. Some of them were treated poorly during the pandemic. It's time for all HR people/departments to sit down and get organized.
I'm curious. Did you do exit interviews with the people who left? That might be a great place to start.
Cheers
Joanne
www.analyticadvantagecc.com
KathyNovember 6,2021 at 5:49PM UTC
I'm sure your company is very happy with you doing the work of 15 people. They don't have to hire anyone! (Sarcasm). They probably don't care if you burn out either.
Perhaps it's time you started looking for a new position. I doubt your current company will raise your salary to anything near your worth. They will let you spin your wheels trying to hire people.
Your manager has a sweet deal. You!
Good luck!
Laura Ann KleinNovember 6,2021 at 6:13PM UTC
this x1000
Laura Ann KleinNovember 6,2021 at 6:12PM UTC
Join the great resignation, ask for 30k more than you make now and take 20k. Best of luck to you!
Audrey KirschNovember 6,2021 at 6:24PM UTC
You may have missed an opportunity by not responding when your manager was wondering if the higher salary is now the going rate. But you can still turn it around. Do the research on salaries as others have suggested, then take that info to your manager to show what new hires and you should be making. If she has no interest in giving you the raise you deserve, you will clearly see what you need to do. Either do the work you love without a concern for what you get paid or look for a new job that pays better that you will hopefully also love. Maintain connections with those that have exited. They may be a great source for opportunities if you do decide to leave your current job.
Lynda BoothNovember 6,2021 at 7:51PM UTC
Do your market research for the positions you are hiring for PLUS the market research for your position. Have a discussion with your manager about what the team should look like in terms of job titles, responsibilities, etc and show salaries for each position. Come up with a plan and a date to move to the new team structure. When approved, you get a raise.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistNovember 6,2021 at 8:11PM UTC
YOU SAID:
Anyway how do you reconcile this disconnect with your manager?
Not for nothing, but I think it is you who is disconnected. Your team left because they were underpaid. Your new applicants are telling you what the market is for their skillset. It's not just one of those applicants asking for that higher salary range, correct?
Your boss gave you the perfect opening to take a look at the comp structure. Not just for your team - but for yourself. Do you seriously think that when she suggested your company was paying below market, that she thinks y'all are only paying below market for the positions that report to you and doesn't realize that you, too, are underpaid? And now that you both know you're underpaid, don't you think it's crossed her mind that you, too, might find greener grass?
You're boss opened the conversation to look at your comp structure, I suggest you do some research and revisit that conversation.
Don't rely on Glassdoor for comp info when doing research - there are other sites more data driven. Try Payscale and Salary - both use data provided by employers.
Here's an article by the awesome Kristen Fife everyone interested in salary negotiations or in a job search should follow her on LinkedIN:
Let’s Talk Offers, Salary Negotiation, and Compensation
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lets-talk-offers-salary-negotiation-compensation-fife-she-her-hers-/
KathyNovember 7,2021 at 8:51PM UTC
While the boss opened a door, the boss didn't suggest that a new scale be developed or anything that resembles her openness to changing their current structure.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistNovember 8,2021 at 7:03PM UTC
SHE SAID:
"and she says 'well I wonder if that is the going rate right now?'"
Opening the door to that conversation is literally exactly what she did.
KathyNovember 9,2021 at 4:13PM UTC
We can agree to disagree. While she said "I wonder", she didn't suggest anything further in terms of salary research. The company and HR would need to get behind any new salary scales to replace existing salary range(s). For someone to spin their wheels coming up with a new salary scale only to find out the company is not interested is a waste of time and effort. While some may say it shows initiative on the part of the subordinate, the company still needs to support the idea.
A vague 'I wonder' is not much incentive. Change needs to happen from the top down, not the bottom up.
Tanika (Nika) Vasquez - (she/her)November 6,2021 at 8:52PM UTC
I would start building a case to present to your compensation, HR representative, and manager. I would include the salary ranges that the applicants are asking for, the job descriptions, and what the market rate is for that job. Having supporting data will solidify your statements and help you build a case for a compensation review.
Zakiya Kainu PhD, CAMNovember 7,2021 at 2:46PM UTC
I agree I would start building a case, researching other companies in your field and get salary stats. It always helps when you can back up your request with stats. It not only bolsters your case for a raise it may help HR re-think the position and salary moving forward.
AnonymousNovember 6,2021 at 9:26PM UTC
Know what you are worth and ask for it. All these applicants have given you what you need to make a case for yourself. Do your research, do a team plan and what salary ranges different levels are making and go in. Were in Silicon Valley and jobs are everywhere. Advocate for yourself or join the exodus. I have to ask though...that many people leaving, is it just the money? That many in such a short period says there may be more to it.
AnonymousNovember 7,2021 at 12:22AM UTC
You need to ask for a raise. Period….Also see if you can confirm if the going rate has changed. You need to dust off your resume and see what is out there, then speak to your manager. Be prepared with a backup if you are told no. Know your worth! Good luck.
AnonymousNovember 7,2021 at 12:36AM UTC
Know your worth as they said. I would double check the job listing too for possibly unclear salary postings. I am a business major and do not know much but from what I have learned so far in college these ideas might apply:
I would suggest to do some job market research (or delegate this task to someone) because you cannot spread yourself too thin for an employer whom will not work with you. Maybe, research for your line of work some solid peer reviewed studies/ what is normal in your company. Then speak with the boss about setting better expectation's for the applicants that apply in the job listing to the prime location you are in. it is likely that these applicants are asking for more than the budget may allow because the price of everything has risen in the recent months but this too shall pass and maybe these applicants will apply again with a more realistic outlook for your field of work. The job market is struggling in all fields from what I hear from family in various fields of work. No one is staying at one job anywhere too long right now but yet it is so hard to find a job is accepting qualified applicants. Plus continually training new people can be costly to you and your company so it will take time to rebuilding the team you had for 2 years.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistNovember 7,2021 at 2:45AM UTC
Also, why are you doing the work of 15 people?
Anne CoughlinNovember 7,2021 at 12:05PM UTC
Obviously your staff is leaving because they were under paid and likely under appreciated. Open your eyes and see that you need to either move on or ask for a raise. You will not be able to lead a new team without a raise and some leadership classes to learn how to manage your new team and build confidence in yourself.
Violet Cassidy-Maroke (She/her)November 7,2021 at 12:55PM UTC
I'd take the difference now, up the salary and ensure its a similar gap.
Gale JordanNovember 7,2021 at 1:21PM UTC
Stand your ground and honest about hiring let God direct you on the decisions you will make. This just a test on your position you are conquer it.
Marla FieldsNovember 7,2021 at 4:22PM UTC
Do the research yourself on market rate for you and your team. If the new market rate is higher (which it probably is) start interviewing those candidates and get yourself some help. If your market rate is also higher (it probably is), let your management know that you figured this out in doing your do diligence on your staff and request an open conversation about how that can be rectified. If they are not willing to have a conversation about it, start looking yourself.
Joanna PoeNovember 7,2021 at 6:09PM UTC
You likely should get a raise, but you should also realize that often what people ask for is inflated as a negotiating technique. They're probably expecting a counter-offer, but if they never asked for more, they'd never get it.
Sierra LegrierNovember 7,2021 at 11:11PM UTC
I would suggest a conversation with HR. I was recently advised that you can request a salary review which entails reviewing the salary for your current position across the industry and see what the average is. If you are falling short of that then you have two options: Discussing a salary increase with your manager based in the salary review results OR follow suit and begin looking into external opportunities.
Heather BinghamNovember 8,2021 at 10:11AM UTC
You can certainly request that HR does a salary review for you, or you can undertake it yourself if you're willing. I would benchmark your own salary, to really see the full picture. Ordinarily that involves finding and blending two figures - the salaries being paid to incumbent people and the salaries being offered to new people. What has to happen in a circumstance such as yours is that the incumbent's salary must be equalised to the salaries of those coming in, but this usually takes two-three years where there has been an upheaval . It's either that or you leave to take the benefit of the new joiner salaries on offer. The best way to get at the information is to sign up with two to three recruiters to find out what you're worth in the market, in your role, at current salaries. You can also, if the information is available, look at salary surveys in your area (location and job role) online, because that will give you the incumbent figures. You'll then be able to pull together something credible to go to HR with to request a salary review for yourself. However, just be aware that if you don't get anywhere, you may find yourself needing to move job to get your salary to the place it should be, and you then have to think about your longer-term future, not just your salary today. At least you will already be in touch with some recruiters if you decide to go elsewhere.
Maria Paula CalvoNovember 8,2021 at 11:14AM UTC
Ask HR for their support. They should be the ones doing periodical research and market validations of compensation for employees at all levels. If they provide you with updated information, this will support the new considerations you will have to make to hire new staff. It will also give you the right perspective for the value of your own position. Thus, you´ll have what you need to talk to your manager about the changes materialized in the labor market and discuss with Him/Her how you will cope with them. There is always the chance that you don´t like the conclusions this discussion will bring, so you have to remember you are free to look for what you think you deserve elsewhere, but you have to make a conscious decision. Good luck!
ValerieNovember 8,2021 at 12:39PM UTC
Sounds like YOU are the HR department. I'd have a candid conversation with your manager explaining the responsibilities you are doing and that you would be happy to bring on people at a higher rate, provided she consider adjusting your salary accordingly. There might be outside council you can talk to like a local labor lawyer.
AnonymousNovember 8,2021 at 1:36PM UTC
All the more reason to do everything you can to retain your current staff. It is less expensive to give in to what current staff needs than to hire new, especially now. Flexibility is key for new hires, not just pay. Find out what your new candidates really need to make their lives manageable, while also lessening your load. You may find that it’s not just pay. Also, too many employees have been doing the job of two or three people for too long. That causes burnout. Companies need to start hiring more people to complete the work, if they also want high-quality.
AnonymousNovember 9,2021 at 10:51PM UTC
This has been my biggest pain point. I had a great team - they all left for more money. If I had given them all maybe $20k more (x4 that's $80k it would have cost us extra - not a small amount but hey its what they just all went out and got so the market is saying its there) I wouldn't have this problem, they were all already strong workers but now I am looking at possibly hiring two people at $120 each. We could have kept skilled works for less. Its so maddening how HR and these people tie our hands. I don't have the control over pay that some think I might. I can ask but ultimately they tell me what I can offer.
AnonymousNovember 10,2021 at 7:26PM UTC
Hopefully this is a lesson for your company's leadership team in paying people fairly all the time and not relying on outdated models that only review compensation annually. The market adjusts every single day, and now your company will need to pay more anyway.
AnonymousNovember 8,2021 at 7:10PM UTC
I'm afraid you'll need to hire well which means you will have to pay them well and offer them a great work life balance and flexibility. That is the new normal.
I would seek the same fir yourself.
Karen GongawareNovember 8,2021 at 7:38PM UTC
Tell your boss you want a raise, make sure it is a solid raise and list all your accomplishments and what the market states your worth is. Then look up what the market states people with fill in the blank years of experience vs no or basic experience should be making in your area. Use that as a negotiating tool. And don't forget, benefits go a long way helping people decide. Until your company is willing to compensate talent, you will have no talent.
Nicole HarbinNovember 9,2021 at 4:24AM UTC
Uh-huh. First off, there is no way that your boss intends on paying your subordinates +$20-$30k more than you make, unless she is the DUMBEST manager ever, anywhere!
My advice is to choose this time to revamp all of your department’s starting base salaries. I would do a range, that would leave room for any +/- in base salary due to experience, etc. This will adjust your salary as well. Really do your homework. Consult many salary guides (Robert Half 2022 Salary Guide). Have your backup so you can prove how you came to your numbers.
For the interim pay, I would just sit down with your boss and simply tell her how much you love working there (if you do) and that obviously she knows all that you are doing for the company, mostly by yourself. Now she may not really know so have all of your old & new duties neatly put together for her so that she could even take with her for consideration. I would ask for an interim pay increase for you until you have hired everyone on your team. Have a number in mind or a range, don’t just leave that up to her. To help start you out, use an average of your now salary & your new suggested salary, and then some.
What I believe is happening is that people are just starting to research what other employees make in the same field, location, etc. And congrats that they did. I feel that since 2008-2012, employees have been given more work, more responsibility, same pay and it has never adjusted itself. We all experienced the increase in work, same or less pay, some may have been promised that they will make the employee “whole” after the recession and never did.
surfnwriteNovember 9,2021 at 4:27AM UTC
I am not steeped in the corporate world at all but no way in hell should you be the boss of people making more than you. I mean I can't even imagine that happening. Does the person who sets the salary of the new hires know what your salary is? I think you need to put this all on the table, no holds barred.
Jessica Virtuoso, MBA, SHRM-CPNovember 9,2021 at 7:45PM UTC
We're at a reckoning right now with employees wanting salaries to reflect the work they're putting in. Bottom line.
They are not wrong for asking for salaries that support their newfound worth in reference to their time and abilities. This is where we are at right now - an awakening of the fact that many individual contributors and middle managers have had unfair expectations on their time and expertise in relationship to the salary/benefits being paid.
My question to you is what has you STOPPING from asking for yours?
How do you ask? Well...maybe not from the place where you're at now, which sounds an awful lot like resentment and being at effect of the current circumstances at work.
You might start with getting in touch with the worth you're bringing to the table, the money your work and dedication is saving the company, the value you are providing in terms of work and your presence around handling said work.
Your manager likely didn't reply with that to hurt you; in the moment, she's thinking of the 700 other things she's doing as well. Not cool, but she's human, too. It's reality that you may have to up the salary range of the roles you're recruiting for...it's likewise reality that in doing so, your manager is not quite present to that she would then need to restructure the salary ranges within the whole company to keep people from fleeing.
So, how will you presence your manager to these two things:
1. The current compensation structure doesn't support remaining competitive as an employer for both recruiting and retaining purposes, and
2. You are worth being paid more than the people you're expected to manage.
I suspect you know those two things. I suspect you don't really need help from any of us on this forum. What internal qualities will you draw on to communicate your expectations from a powerful place so you can get your needs met?
MssandraeNovember 9,2021 at 8:29PM UTC
I am in your exact situation since June. I chose to reset expectations with my internal customers about what my new team of 2 can do until we get back to a team of 5. It was a hard sell but I was so afraid of the burnout and my other two employees both walking out.
I started the backfilling process immediately. Its been 5 months and I just got 1 role filled permanently. We got creative and asked to borrow some employees from another channel as a special project. I will lose these as I backfill the positions.
All of the salary expectations have been over the top. I instructed the recruiter to bypass any one with salary expectations that I cannot fulfill or who would not commit to a salary range. I didn't want to waste my time or theirs. It dropped the number of resumes passed to me by 75%. From there I have had to kiss a lot of frogs to find just one qualified candidate in 5 months. I suspect in this current environment its going to take more time for me to fill the last two roles. Its taking a lot of my time to review the few resumes I get and have the phone interviews. I don't get a choice. Its the new world we have to figure out and for the hiring manager its doubly hard. You have to fit this recruitment work into your BAU work, keep up the morale of the few remaining workers and still meet customer expectations with a smile. My 9-10 hour days have become 11-12 hours days. I'm exhausted. I keep saying I should be looking for another job, but who has the time? This was all a very long-winded way to say - I. FEEL. YOUR. PAIN!!!!
If you have supportive leadership the perseverance should payoff in the future.
Nancy CincottaNovember 12,2021 at 6:49PM UTC
I wonder if eliminating those who have not posted a salary demand will delay the fulfilling of your open positions. Often, those folks are looking for more info re: other benefits, etc and are open to negotiate. Just a thought
Gregory HolubNovember 9,2021 at 10:33PM UTC
You are in a tough spot here and with the loss of 4 out of 5 that is a huge loss of experience too. ugh. First off know your value and what that is for the organization. 2nd review your successes and accomplishments that have helped your organization grow. 3rd utilize this site, or Glass Door, indeed Linkedin and what is the going rate for someone with your experience. 4th Discuss your candidate pool and their expectation new coming in and is your organization willing to re-evaluate market value for your pay. Have a high position in mind a mid-range and what you would settle at. because if you don't ask you don't get. (which is hard to do asking for ourselves and our worth) If they are willing to work with you and set a timeline to meet wage expectations stay. otherwise, it is a red flag if they don't and it is time to look elsewhere. Which sucks but life is short and you need to do you. Best of luck here and I hope that they will meet you where you are and work to keep you.