A few years ago, our team got a new supervisor.

Anonymous

July 14,2022 at 9:20PM UTC

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I think most people would recommend that I start looking for a new job but I am older and think finding a similar position would be difficult for me.

A few years ago, our team got a new supervisor. Under her, team members were overloaded with work, she was implementing new workflows that were inefficient, she micro-managed our work and she wouldn’t listen to feedback. During team meetings, she would be hostile and rude. A few senior members of the team went to HR and filed a complaint. While HR agreed that there were issues, they didn’t find that she was bullying which was our specific complaint. One person quit, another took a leave of absence. I ended up getting sidelined. I did say that I felt sidelined in an email to her and that “serious accusation” was forwarded up to HR.

Shortly afterwards, the head of HR and my supervisor’s boss called me into a meeting and said they had done an investigation and found that I was turning people against my boss and making team members uncomfortable. But I now realize several months later, there was no investigation. It took me a while to realize this but my direct reports were not interviewed and more importantly, I was not asked how I felt sidelined. The head of HR even said to me, “it’s natural to disengage with someone if you have filed a report against them." Our organization has policies against retaliation and although our original complaint was not one that is legally protected (sexual harassment or discrimination), this backlash was not looked at all.

While I still have issues with my supervisor, I am really angry with HR. I do understand that they are meant to protect the organization but they have done a huge disservice to our team by not doing a proper investigation of her poor management. I talked to the one person in HR that I do trust and he said if I wanted to ask for the retaliation investigation to be opened up, I could. Since the head of HR seems to be siding with my manager, I hesitate to do that but should I call HR out on the fact that they lied about doing an investigation or ask them to see notes from it? Is it normal for HR to lie to employees about things like this?

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AnonymousJuly 14,2022 at 10:32PM UTC
All of this is normal and can be easily explained. You are assuming that no one talks behind your back that no one has said a word in the manager's defense.
I work in the legal field and trust me this manager abd HR are fully supported by the leadership and have complete faith in their resolve that you are a problem.
So given that scenario, what exactly do you wish to achieve moving forward
Our attorneys always tell clients to be very clear what they want to accomplish and then work backwards from their.
AnonymousJuly 14,2022 at 10:39PM UTC
I would let it go. The company has made it clear they side with the new manager, who will recruit people they can work with. I would look for another position. The allegation that you are turning people against your boss is very serious and some companies would fire you outright. HR may have done an investigation and your staff are uncomfortable talking about it - it's uncommon in my experience for HR to completely lie about that type of situation - more likely is that they did the investigation and your staff is lying. The meeting you described with HR and the supervisor's supervisor was a warning to stop now.
JJJuly 14,2022 at 11:35PM UTC
HR works to protect the company first and foremost.
If you can document the lie, call an employment lawyer, otherwise look for another job because you will not win this or be safe without legal representation.
JenniferJuly 15,2022 at 12:55AM UTC
I am sorry that you are having to deal with such an unpleasant supervisor and work situation.
I'm not in HR, but there's a common saying within HR communities that has really stuck with me. "Being an assh*le isn't illegal." It's incredibly common for HR to have no say in the actions taken in situations like these. The business (your boss's boss, most likely) decides what, if any, action will be taken, and then HR delivers the message. HR doesn't have the power.
Your friend in HR said that you could file a retaliation claim if you wanted to, but what are hoping to accomplish? It sounds like your supervisor's manager is fully aware of the situation and is backing your supervisor. What do you think the outcome would be? You do not want to leave the company, so do you think that filing a retaliation claim would make your situation better or worse?
I want to be really clear that I am NOT saying you are being treated fairly/respectfully or that you have no justification to file a complaint of retaliation. I have been have been in a similar spot regarding whether or not to escalate something to HR. I had to put aside the undeniable unfairness of the situation and just look at the objective facts. I asked myself "Realistically, what do I think will happen if I file a complaint? Will it make my situation better or worse?"
Again, I'm really sorry that you are in such a crappy situation. You've expressed reservations about looking for a new position, but can you tolerate this for another year? Five years? Ten? I encourage you to look for and apply to other opportunities. You have concerns about companies being interested due to your age, but you could be completely mistaken. You definitely won't know unless you try. What do you have to lose by applying elsewhere? What could you gain with a new opportunity?
Take care of yourself, and good luck.
AnonymousJuly 15,2022 at 2:46AM UTC
Time for a new job when you can find one.
AnonymousJuly 15,2022 at 12:25PM UTC
Very this.
Crystal HowellJuly 16,2022 at 12:49PM UTC
"Stay strong, gather evidence that they are lying to you, making false claims of interviewing others. This is defamation of character, if not slander.
Contact EECo and an employee relations attorney outside of yolur company. You may have a case, I am not a lawyer, just an opinion.
Crystal HowellJuly 16,2022 at 12:49PM UTC
Like they said, they do not retaliate against anyone reporting someone. lol
AnonymousJuly 16,2022 at 9:19PM UTC
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but the role of many or most HR departments is to protect management, not the rank and file.
If the complaint involves 2 managers, HR is likely to side with the more senior manager or with the manager whose business line is the more important.
Protecting the senior manager appears to be what has happened in your case. Among other things, a complaint of being “sidelined” warrants investigation and discussion among the parties, which wasn’t done here. Another concern is that little appears to have been done to re-train or otherwise improve the performance of your problematic manager. Finally, HR and senior management have accused you of trying to turn employees against your manager.
Against this backdrop, I doubt you’ll be successful in pursuing a case against HR. I’m sorry that you’ve experienced this.
Another commenter has recommended that you contact an employment lawyer. That makes sense if your company seems to be prepared to oust you, especially if you want to leave with a negotiated financial settlement, the usual outcome. (Understood that you have not indicated that this is the case.) If you are concerned about the possibility of termination, document events with detailed, off-site contemporaneous notes and select the most experienced plaintiff’s side (ie represents employees) employment lawyer available. Best to hire an employment law specialist, not a general practice attorney.
Finally, I agree with others that you might want to consider opportunities with other companies. Your post suggests that your company is not focused on employee welfare and sound management.
BethBJuly 19,2022 at 12:25PM UTC
What do you have to gain by calling them out? They are clear on where they stand. To paraphrase Maya Angelou, when a company shows you what they are, believe them.
You have limited energy. You can use it to “right fight” or you can use it to move forward in your career at other companies.
Beth Whight MoralesJuly 19,2022 at 12:26PM UTC
Unfortunately it does not look like the team is currently a good fit. You can wait it out and hope she will be disciplined or terminated eventually, but understand that may never happen.
It is unlikely that you will be able to transfer to a different department given what HR has said to you. If you continue to push, the likely result will be your termination.
Document everything, but at the point where you need to start that kind of documentation, it’s time to start looking for a new job.
I understand that this kind of environment is not great for your health, so you might look at using your company’s EAP to help you plan for your next move and put the ball back in your court. Best of luck to you you!
Cyndy TrivellaJuly 19,2022 at 12:40PM UTC
You are correct; HR is there to protect the company.
They will intercede at a time when an employee has put the organization at risk, and HR's involvement will be as deep as it needs to be to make the problem go away. Where it gets fuzzy for many people is that gray area when HR gets involved in some instances and not others.
When HR gets involved: HR will pursue and incorporate the assistance of any employee who they believe can help them to resolve a problem where the company has been put at risk. This means if a given employee is in a situation where that employee may potentially and rightfully pursue legal action in a complaint against the company, HR will intervene and take steps to mitigate and/or eliminate the problem.
In instances when HR doesn't get involved is when the employee's claim is weak, lacks qualitative evidence (even when it's real but undocumented), and is not found to be a high-risk situation where potential legal action may occur, HR tends not to get involved.
Frankly, the HR people have shown you their decision through their actions. For you to continue pursuing anything more about this is probably a waste of your time and may elevate any stress you are feeling from those actions.
Staying in a toxic environment eventually takes its toll on a person's mental health. I hope you take the time to evaluate a better direction for you and your career, and I wish you all the best.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 1:00PM UTC
Many years ago I was in a very similar situation. I did meet with an employment law attorney who basically told me because I was not in a protected class, even though there was clear evidence that my manager was doing all the things you have described and more, and like in your case, HR and upper management had decided to side with the bad manager, I didn’t have a legal case as my state is an ‘at will’ state. He advised me to try and work things out with my company. I took his advice to heart and although I was extremely bitter about HR’s role in it all, I kept my mouth shut and my head down. Ironically, after several months, I was praised by both HR and upper management for being able to turn myself around and change my behavior. They remarked that most people aren’t able to do the inner work required to turn themselves around that way. The truth is, I didn’t change at all. The manager, realizing she had called negative attention to herself through the process, backed off and that breathing room allowed me to fall off the radar. That legal advice, while not what I wanted to hear, helped me to understand I had zero power or control over my situation. So I stopped fighting. Ultimately I left the company on good terms, and the bad manager retired 6 months later. I still laugh over how I was able to turn myself around by doing absolutely nothing differently except to stop tilting at windmills trying to get HR to fix a wrong they refused to see. By all means see an attorney but understand that your rights aren’t as strong or protected as you might wish and you may have to adapt to a plan B.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 1:13PM UTC
The best thing you can do is keep in mind that the people making the money for the corporation, no matter the industry, will always be supported, in spite of wrongdoing. Follow the money.
If you can prove violations that state agencies have clear regulations about, I would file a complaint with them first to get their feedback.
Think about what you hope to achieve in the long run.
In closing, if you are able to find another job where people appear to have integrity and you can get away from the negativity of your current job, I would take that over this environment any day. Life is hard enough without working in a place where the culture is one of dishonesty and without integrity. Do you really want to waste your energy and risk personal well-being for this employer. You will only become increasingly stressed and lose site of what is really important, quality of life and a healthy environment to grow in.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 1:22PM UTC
What is the best possible outcome… now how likely is that?
What are you trying to save? A team that has disbanded? A company that hires managers you do t like and HR you don’t trust?
maybe it’s not the worst time to polish off that resume and see what else is out there.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 2:12PM UTC
Curious how you know your direct reports were not interviewed? Did you ask them? Do you expect your direct reports to tell you the truth if they said something that may have damaged you? Especially if hr told them they were speaking anonymously.
Were your direct reports even involved in the original complaint? Seems like it was between you, some other senior managers and your boss. Why would your reports be part of that?
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 4:47PM UTC
The direct reports were not involved in the original complaint. The sidelining happened after the original complaint. The issue I have is that I was not asked how I felt sidelined so it’s clear to me that a proper investigation was not done. How can HR know what I was experiencing? As far as my direct reports go, I was to tell them any work issues they had should be brought directly to the boss and not to me. This was due to the “investigation.” When I explained this to them, they were surprised. Yes, they could be acting. Regardless, since HR didn’t question me as part of their “investigation”, it doesn’t seem fair or impartial.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 3:55PM UTC
Being bad at managing people when it's your job feels like the only poor performance that won't get you fired or on an improvement plan. And HR doesn't care about bad managers - unless they are discriminating or opening the company up to litigation. I had a similar situation and left the job. I suggest you do the same.
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 5:20PM UTC
It sounds like a train wreck all over the place.
And I hate to tell you this but you are investing yourself too deeply in the fact that your manager is crappy and the company is not responding appropriately. Step back from this and look at all of the negativity and energy you are putting into a bad situation that is not turning around... My kindest advice to you is to sit back, do your best work , and fly under the radar. Things will fall apart over time , but you don't want to be in the midst of it .. I'm getting a strong Vibe on this.. that you need to back off and lay low
AnonymousJuly 19,2022 at 5:42PM UTC
You can call HR out but I don't see it doing any good. And yes, it's normal for HR to lie to employees about things like this.
Your company's leadership clearly likes your manager. They made their choice, and HR is aligning with that. The only way to make any headway around this is if everyone who doesn't like working for this manager either quits the company or transfers to a different group so that there is no one left to do the work. People quit bosses, not jobs.
AnonymousJuly 20,2022 at 2:57AM UTC
Bottomless is they did just enough that they are satisfied and now you are viewed as an issue.
I would start looking for a new role.