Women who don't support women

Women who don't support women

6 months ago I was laid off -- due to financial issues --from my management role at a startup I helped launch. A new, [female] CEO was hired last spring and I spent 2 months taking lots of time to help her get her up-to-speed. Once she got a closer look at the books, she laid off 3 of us. No severance, no nothing. In fact, they owe us back pay from salary deferrals we took to help conserve cash. I asked for ONE thing from her. A LinkedIn recommendation. She said sure, but didn't follow through. Fortunately, the previous CEO went out of his way to help with recommendations and introductions. But this woman did NOTHING. Meanwhile, she's out there cultivating PR pieces about herself as a woman who supports women, who values authentic relationships. What a bunch of hooey. Why do so many women executives fail to help other women? Is it that women compete with each other? Lack time? I don't get it. Fortunately, I have just secured a great new leadership position. I vow to continue to be the type of leader who keeps her word and helps others, especially other women. I believe what comes around goes around.

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76 Comments

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  1. Anonymous

    I truly feel for you, I couldn't imagine! Congratulations on your new position.

  2. Nicole Dupuis

    Oof this hits home for me. I have certainly been around far too many women that saw other successful women as a threat. I appreciate you owning your new leadership role in a whole new light. Way to go!!!

  3. Kristie White

    So I am 64 and I’ve seen this over and over. My theory is that many women never learn how to be team players - and I think this is a byproduct of societal norms. We compete with each other on beauty, love, physical attributes - we compete by attracting using our external qualities. We are trained in it from birth. Times are changing but so much in ingrained like the use of make up, air brushing photos, fashion, and weight obsession. This is how we compete and the training of sports where we learn to be part of a team is not as prevalent. Plus the good ol boy network for men has been around for thousands of years. So women are nowhere close in our evolution- violence against us, religious suppression, subservience to men, limited political power still exist in much of the much of the world. We have a long way to go as a group, but we can start with ourselves. Brava!

  4. Michelle S.

    I was never taught that, to be competitive to other women.. The sad thing, the way that violence and sexism are rampant, you’d think that women would be sticking together!! That’s where it starts, though, realizing that even if you don’t agree with something as a woman or you don’t like something about another woman, that you still support that woman and her journey.

    That’s one thing men do do better than women, compartmentalize people. If a man doesn’t agree with another man’s behavior, he doesn’t care or hold it against him at work.

    Mostly. Some women are just catty by nature, so we’ll never have the good ole’ girls network. But, those of us who do see a better way and are mature enough emotionally to get there, hopefully we can keep being an example for others.

  5. Anonymous

    ?

  6. Kristie White

    Yes - unfortunately - men looking the other way also includes men allowing other men to be predators and looking the other way.
    And I don't really think it's an accurate statement to say you weren't taught to compete with other women when that competition is rampant in every commercial that emphasizes beauty over everything else, every beauty pageant, every interaction where being a woman diminishes you vs. elevates you. I have proof in my experience that one of my VPs talked me out of a promotion so he could offer it to a male - how do I know? The male worked for me and we were friendly and he told me he knew the job was over his head and turned it down. Eventually it went to another man. My VP told me it wasn't a job worth having, I should pass. So the bias exists and it makes us all a little pissed off.

  7. Rachel

    I would be angry!

  8. Michelle S.

    Life is too short to be angry. Especially over something you can’t fix or change. Better perspective changes everything. Coming from a place of gratitude and humbleness fixes everything.

  9. Anonymous

    Unfortunately, yes there are people like this both male and female and it’s just one of those many life lessons to be careful in how and who you share your wisdom and expertise with. I know In a work environment that can be hard to do, but sometimes you have to treat certain situations like a poker game before you really get to know a colleague or even a boss, like not completely revealing your full hand upfront. Sometimes these situations are just unvavoidable, but not everyone is like this. Keep your head up and it’s better that you were not still stuck with that toxic boss, bc some people struggle to get out of the situation. Good luck.

  10. Debra Sesholtz

    Congratulations on finding your new role, despite the lack of support from your former CEO. The lack of women supporting other women has always baffled me. We need to learn that when we lift each other up, we all win. Madeline Albright’s comment that “ “There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." always sticks with me.

  11. Tahirah Wineglass

    That’s mostly the case in the workplace. Women have been taught to compete against each other and have no solidarity to each other—-in any aspect of life. But that doesn’t mean you become that way. You maintain your integrity and character among the sharks. You will prosper and prevail, in time

  12. Jazz Gandhi

    Women have indeed been taught to compete. Little do they know is that they're misogynists.

    I am staunchly pro-women in business and prefer working with them IF they're of the mindset that we are a team.

  13. Michelle S.

    Some women have been taught that. Not all of us. But I think the most important thing we can do is be a positive example to other women.

  14. Anonymous

    I’ve been going through a similar situation and unfortunately most women go through this.

  15. Anonymous

    You had me at competent, and lost me at likeable and attractive. For “likeable” and “attractive” qualities in females to be rewarded over truly competent should not be a metric— even if it’s for a tv personality role lol!

  16. Ayian

    They didn't say it should be a metric, but that some people feel threatened by others where they perceive a personal deficit. I have seen in professional roles some situations where fragile or underdeveloped egos would see these highly subjective and professionally irrelevant perceptions of others vs themselves as threats or something to be offended about.

  17. Venise Vinegar

    The only thing I know for sure is that what comes around goes around.

  18. GirlBossanova934974

    Frankly if this were me, I would let it got and focus on my new job and getting my back pay from the previous job. IF there is one thing I've learned from LinkedIn, it is purely "buyer beware" when reading about people's self described morality pitches and/or great success stories and/or causes they are "supporting". A LinkedIn reference? I don't know how valuable that is. Those sorts of references have lost a good amount of value over the years as many are written by personal friends based upon non business factors. This new CEO is obviously "out for herself and only herself". Reducing headcount without severance and not paying up back pay tells me that. As such, I don't see this as a gender issue per se. Some managers are just NON TEAM players. Eventually the word gets out and they find themselves surrounded by a trail of "burnt bridges" that cannot be repaired. I have worked for a few of them. I do recall one Marketing VP who was a real snake. After he left the company, he couldn't find work for a year or two as there were so many lined up to vouch for his total lack of character, two faced management style, and complete lack of judgement.

  19. Michelle S.

    It sucks to hear because not one of them are a friend of mine. All of my LinkedIn references were really hard won….

  20. Anonymous

    You go, Michelle!!

  21. Goalsetter278097

    I had a similar situation happen to me at a start up 10 years ago, as well as have made a career of supporting female executives (most of whom no one would work for because they were labeled “difficult”) and I can tell you that most of them, especially those who lead efforts in supporting women in business, don’t give a snot about other women. Someone in this thread already said it best, we as women have been programmed to always see each other’s as competitors, and that is heavily engrained. These successful leaders did not get to where they are by being nice and supportive. They’ve had to compete in a world of men and it makes them hard. I’m not making excuses, just sharing some perspective. Perhaps she fully intended to recommend you, and then just forgot because she’s not as committed to following though on things that are less serving to her personally. Regardless, your attitude of not allowing it to change your passion to help others is exactly how to handle this. Instead of being like these women and allowing the business world to turn them, keep to your convictions and hopefully, it will grow a healthier system.

  22. Michelle S.

    I get your point but continuing that behavior is NOT going to solve it.
    Calling those women out when they do it and being a woman that others can be proud of the way to stop it. Just because that might be a reason doesn’t make it an excuse.

  23. Goalsetter278097

    I don’t think they are mutually exclusive. Both can be done and carve a path towards healthier work environments.

  24. Anonymous

    We need 'more' Michelles in our workspaces. I'm growing weary of the rest.

  25. Anonymous

    I try to always assume good intent. Did you follow up with her? She may have gotten really busy and forgot. If it's not that I'm curious if you did in fact have relationship with her. Did she really know if you put out quality work? As a woman I am leary at giving a recommendation to someone that I barely know or someone that has performance issues. I'm not saying that this is the case for you in this situation, but I've learned that recommending someone that might not perform well might tarnish my own professional reputation. If that is the case here, it's not a situation of a woman not helping a woman it's a situation of a woman trying to protect herself in a professional world that probably made it extremely difficult for her to get to where she is.

    I wouldn't get upset about it, focus on your new career and the opportunity that you have been given to continue helping deserving women in their careers.

  26. Anonymous

    We’ll said!

  27. Anonymous

    I 'always' assume good intent initially. We need only wait to see if there is a pattern of ill behavior, then proceed cautiously. There's no need for vile behavior in the workplace. Life is tough enough.

  28. Anonymous

    Original poster here: to clarify, I was a member of the executive team who helped launch the company. As the initial CEO provided a glowing recommendation and made some introductions, there was no performance issue. I have also worked extremely hard to get where I am, in spite of life’s disappointments. An empathetic leader wouldn’t just “forget” to help a person that they just laid off, especially in a startup environment where there is great sacrifice.

  29. Liz Bentley

    Thank you for sharing this story! All

    women need to hear it as a reminder to support each other. For some

    reason, men inituitvely support each other all the time especially when it comes to money. Women have it so much harder and for that reason alone need the extra left from

    each other. Glad you landed on your feet.

  30. Angie Martin

    The very least she could have done is provide a recommendation. I find it pretty shocking that she wouldn't, but sadly, so many people are willing to discard those who have helped then get to where they are now.

  31. Tamara Webb

    Good for you! Exposing this secret under handing scheme, that happens quite often. Either some will call it out or keep it under wraps. Sad!

  32. Shelby C

    I don't get it. Statistics even show we are far better employees. Perhaps she felt threatened by you.

  33. Lori Ramsey

    One of the worst experiences I've ever had was working for all women. I think it depends on the women. A good boss hires people better than them at things because it makes them look good. An awful boss is just threatened by those same people.

  34. Liliana

    I had a similar experience with a woman who touts to be a professional coach. She signed up as a mentor for my graduate program yet stood me up twice for the 1st meeting and then limited my very few interactions with her to less than 15 mins and offered no guidance to mentoring goals. She also never asked me why I had signed up for the program or made any attempts to establish any type of mentoring relationship with me. I have mentored others and have been mentored before so I concluded she only signed up for the program to claim some sort of fake altruism and add to her LinkedIn profile.

  35. Anonymous

    This is why I put my head down and do my job. I don’t rely on anyone but myself. And if anyone I work with, boss included, treats me with disrespect, I don’t get angry nor do I confront. But I stop going out of my way for this person. I say “no”

    a lot more often. And in your case, I would try to cultivate other connections outside the CEO who laid you off. Go and be successful somewhere else. Depending on the size of your industry, your former boss may get her comeupance sooner rather than later. You can’t treat people like that and command respect in your field.

  36. Anonymous

    Exactly! I cannot truly respect 'anyone' that treats me.... or others with such disrespect. That type of behavior is so vile in the workplace. 'They' are not intelligent enough to understand that basic concept. Comeuppance ....cannot happen soon enough....for all who participate in this type of behavior!

  37. Anonymous

    Thank you for your kind words!

  38. Anonymous

    I wouldn’t write a recommendation for anyone that I’ve known for 2 months or less unless we have worked together on a daily basis and I’ve personally seen in-progress work samples, finished work product and your communication/ leadership skills.
    Male or female. Maybe the CEO feels similarly.

    Why is this an issue of “women supporting women?”

    I find it frustrating when people expect me to be a certain way because of my gender. I once had a boss that told me to be “motherly and nurturing” with an under performing male Direct report. Maybe your ask is… stereotyping And entitled.

  39. Lara Gonzalez

    It costs exactly nothing to extend a kindness to someone who just lost their income, regardless of time and gender. Be the change you want to see.

  40. Anonymous

    Let’s keep this professional and not attack one another. I offered a different point of view for diversity of thinking. Your comment is a generalization. Just because someone doesn’t give referrals for folks they don’t know/haven’t worked with doesn’t mean that they are not generous with those that they have worked with.

  41. Michelle S.

    Sounds like the CEO was the last thing she had left to ask for a recommendation from someone in leader ship at her company. And looks like your previous situation colored your answer to this one.

  42. Anonymous

    Original poster here -- you may not have worked in a startup before, but I will say 2 months in startup land is like 6 months at other jobs, and I worked very closely with her -- there were only 6 people in the company!
    I didn't have gender-based expectations, however, if she wasn't comfortable, then she should have said no. That would also contradict her whole "women supporting women" persona.

  43. Anonymous

    Women are conditioned from birth to compete against each other instead of cooperating and supporting each other. We compete for the best men, who is the most beautiful, who has the best children, the biggest house, the most expensive clothes. You need to develop your skills in competition when it comes to work - be ruthless at work, save the altruism for other places.

  44. Brittany Butkiewicz Gonzalez

    This is why as a whole women are paid less than men. Men have no problem looking out for each other and giving each other raises and promotions.

  45. Michelle S.

    Exactly!!! ?????

  46. Anonymous

    Wow. And ouch! That's one hell of an unfair generalization. I've worked in IT for over 25 years and there's people of both kinds in both genders. I've seen it play out both ways, in fact. One of the nastiest underhanded battles I've witnessed from the sidelines was a guy who torpedoed his new peer because he was obviously intimidated by the other man. I've also seen some really great women bosses who looked after their people and excelled. The really good bosses come in both genders. So do the idiots.

    The reason that women are paid less than men on the whole is centuries of ingrained patriarchy. Fish don't notice the water they swim in. Just saying.

  47. Michelle S.

    Sorry, I disagree fully and I think the last thing that will help the situation like this is to be more ruthless. With all due respect, you sound like the kind of woman she’s talking about. And who cares if someone has the best looking husband (is he kind? Loving?!) or the best kids or the best clothes, especially the most expensive??! None of that stuff matters. I’ve had a child pass away.. NOTHING else matters but cultivating those kind and loving relationships.. Someone sounds like they need a little bit of humble pie.

  48. Michelle S.

    PS. I’m almost to VP at work and I’m not ruthless at all. I give other women and other people a hand up, I work my butt off and I am always kind and respectful, coaching and helping and people gravitate toward that. I don’t do it for that reason but it’s helped me get a lot further than my less kind counterparts.

  49. Anonymous

    Thank you. You have a great work ethic and class. Pray for the rest of us, please.

  50. Vanda Lee

    I disagree - SOME women fit your conditioning profile while others are encouraged to disregard the list of items you described. In my experience women who compete against women (especially on the same internal team) lack self-confidence. The old saying "there is no I in Team" is true... with few exceptions, more is accomplished by teamwork, and undermining one another may push you higher for a bit but you burn bridges like that. Women have struggled with societal stereotypes, especially compared to our male counterparts, for decades... we need to support one another and assist in all our growth & development! Being ruthless is not a characteristic trait desired in the workplace.

  51. Anonymous

    I'm sorry you were laid off and are dealing with the fallout of that experience.
    Regarding your recommendation, did you draft an example of the recommendation you were looking for from her first and share it with her to approve and post? Did you follow up on your ask? Sometimes we hold people to the same standard we have; however, we don't communicate that standard. Also, our standards are not universal truths. They are only our standards. Your recommendation was priority one for you but was likely much further down her list (maybe #111), especially since she was ramping up on a new role. We must give folks grace and lead with curiosity first.

  52. Anonymous

    My experience with women at work has been atrocious. They don’t back each other up. They aren’t trustworthy in the slightest. I’ve literally been told on multiple times for the most ridiculous and childish reasons. The biggest one being, she isn’t talking to me. Telling on me if I don’t say hi to you in the hallway? What grade are we in?

  53. Michelle S.

    Exactly. Same here. My mom was one of the best women I’ve ever met. She never once looked at another woman as her competitor in any way. And that’s why, when she passed away, people were crawling out of the woodwork to say something to me about how kind and loving she was. And I think that’s the sad part… you can tell that some women didn’t get the benefit that I did from that. But hopefully, women who weren’t taught that way, can learn from those of us who were .

  54. Anonymous

    ? Just beautiful. Not all of us have been as fortunate as you have been in that respect, Michelle, but 'we' get it, we want it, and would love to pay that forward.

  55. Michelle S.

    I understand how it’s been to your detriment sometimes but don’t ever give up. Even though it may seem like it it’s not worth it, especially in this world today, it is worth it though. Those women that you’ve made a difference to, who’ve you’ve shocked with your supportive behavior, will hopefully remember how it felt and try to do the same for other women.

  56. Debbie Shapiro

    I've been working for more than 30 years now, with extensive experience in my field. A few years ago, my employer brought in a new female VP and everyone fawned over her and how talented she was. After some 6 months of her leading our team from another location with almost no face time, I finally had an opportunity to meet with her one on one. It was such a disappointing meeting. She downplayed my experience without knowing any details about my background and made me feel inconsequential. Additionally, hearing more from her about our team and its direction (a tech team involved heavily with data), I started coming to the conclusion that she didn't really know what she was talking about. This type of crabs in a bucket mentality is so harmful and damaging. It's bad enough that in 2022, we still don't have equal pay or ability to reach higher ranks compared to men, but when women keep each other down, it's even worse.

  57. Georgette McMannen

    Hmm.....look forward to the "some" day when business/employers hire and advance employees based on their merit for the job rather than specified groups/"special" categories /quotas, etc. ..... Just saying ....

  58. Michele Premus

    Some day???

  59. Anonymous

    That is today.

    No one hires based on quotas.
    Its cheapst labor for the job.

    That a say, woman vet or a man with a disability is hired and can do the Job with reasonable accommodations does not mean the hire is due to quota.

  60. Focused721350

    Good Morning,

    Unfortunately! This woman is one of those types that's all about herself and what I call a Me!Me! Person! People like her might get her foot in the door. But! Your right! That's Bad Ju Ju! She will eventually met KARMA! I wouldn't want to work with anyone that BS or doesn't have my back! Good for you!

    Good Luck and God Bless you,

    Ms. T ;)

  61. Anonymous

    Contact your state's department of Labor regarding the back pay issue - they will ensure that you receive the pay that you are due. Or contact an Employment attorney - the penalties for not paying employees are painful. Glad you landed somewhere good, and yes, agree, women who act this way are the worst!

  62. Fareen Jiwani

    I had a women supervisor in one my previous roles and she spoke to most team members very disrespectfully in team meetings but when she needed support she would call an individual meeting and speak to me with the ut most respect and tell me how she valued my opinion…I ended up quitting the role without having another job bc the pressure to perform was too much, in the end she didn’t even meet with me as I was leaving and took my resignation via email, I was disappointed but there wasn’t much else to say…I find that my male supervisors have had my back and supported my growth more than my women supervisors, I don’t understand why more women can’t support other women…I hope to be a better leader in the future and support the growth of other women.

  63. Verity

    Coming from a girl in the cyber security job path, some women will exhibit a negative form of competition because it can be really hard to be respected in some jobs that are primarily male run and so they believe they the best option to not seem biased(like the female department head favours the only other female in that department).

    Other women try so hard that when they see another female coworker as anything other than exceptional or that is producing work that is worse than what they do, it can make it even harder to be respected and so she turns into a tyrant of a boss/coworker to, again, seem unbiased and to try and push her to be better.

    It's not right at all and isn't fair to you.

  64. Angela R Edwards

    sure she is a woman, but she is simply not a good human. there are lots of them out there. Now you know. Congratulations on the new job...move on and wish her the life she deserves and hope you hear about it!

  65. Pamela Torres

    I have a female supervisor( we both started the same day for a new branch our employer was opening)she is very competitive, demands respect, and has a habit of throwing people under the bus. Citing issues to other supervisors and management that should remain within our own department or between the departments we interact with.

    Despite the constant grievances against her management still supports her, even to the point that a coworker was let go. So the feeling of invincibility is growing. She is unaware of time management the department personnel must do to complete our responsibilities. She will shoot down any of our comments that is made regarding our positions.

    At this time, I am fortunate to move about in the warehouse and use a kiosk.

    Myself and my coworker try to keep the "We" in team but it becomes more difficult when she wants it to be only the "I" and is making us compete.

    It's so sad. I'm so frustrated and mentally exhausted, but I still pity her.

  66. Julie Chatman, MBA, CISM

    I love what you said at the end "I vow to continue to be the type of leader who keeps her word and helps others".

    I'm with you!

  67. Crystal Howell

    Karma is a girls best friend! Cat fights are on and off the sandbox. Glad you landed what you deserved!

  68. Anonymous

    I agree! what goes around comes around - good or bad! Karma will take care of it!

  69. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    As Madeline Albright said, there is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. I have always felt it was a false scarcity narrative-- we're taught that there's only so much pie to go around so some women who get a decent slice feel like they need to guard it fiercely, even at the expense of other women. But the truth is that there is infinite pie, and we get more of it if we help others get theirs. I hope things get better for you, and you find yourself in a position to help other women get ahead soon!

  70. Jennifer Wuollet

    Oh man, that woman is so insecure it hurts. I'm an engineer and I find a lot of women tend to be this way I prefer to work for/with men. Less drama. I have had bad men coworkers but the percentage of bad women coworkers is higher. Its already hard enough being a female in the work place, why make it harder? I'll never understand. Glad you found a soft landing.

  71. Anonymous

    Posters, let’s keep it professional. I am offering a different point of view for diversity of thinking. You can state your rebuttals, but let’s not attack one another.

  72. Anonymous

    There are some folks that have offered different opinions here in the thread.
    Let’s honor that. The OP is benefitted by this range of thinking.

  73. Anonymous

    Agreed. Some of the responses to people in this thread are aggressive!

  74. Anonymous

    Original poster here: I came to this community for support and received it, thanks to the many supportive women in the community. I will leave it at that and let the community draw their own conclusions about other comments such as this.

  75. Esther Worman

    My first job post-college in the Bay Area taught me the importance of being cautious with workplace friendships. I became close to my supervisor, "Deborah", going out after work when we were able. She was a shameless Southern flirt with an open marriage and a steady stream of extramarital affairs. For me, a chronic introvert at that point in my life, Deborah's lifestyle made her all the more interesting. HOWEVER, when an opening at the company became available and I discovered that her current main squeeze and I were the two main applicants, even though I had more experience, guess who got the job?

  76. Paula Brantner

    What is her age? I ask not to promote discrimination against older women. However, I have found that Boomer and GenX (and I am GenX) women are more accustomed to work environments where they either were the only woman or were constantly pitted against other women to retain their spot. I once worked someplace where four women left in six weeks due to the female boss -- we called it Queen Bee syndrome. If you perceived a competitive threat, your instincts are probably right. Some people are just that way regardless of their age, though....everything is perceived as a zero sum game: if someone else gets ahead that means that she is losing ground. She may have done you a favor: you have a great new position and you're acutely aware of how you can do better.

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