I am in Human Resources.

93 Comments

1. AnonymousJune 29,2023 at 5:57PM UTC

   Please, call your legal department STAT...and get some advice on this.

2. Sharmil McKeeJune 29,2023 at 6:21PM UTC

   And your company should have a written policy on recording meetings.

3. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 6:14PM UTC

   ...that should match state law.

4. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistJune 29,2023 at 7:12PM UTC

   Yes - you may have to get legal involved and you should probably have a written policy but this is a matter of law by State.

   For example: "So if you want to record a conversation in California, you must inform all parties involved in the conversation and receive their consent before recording. Otherwise, you are unlawfully eavesdropping under California Penal Code 632 PC.

   A violation of Penal Code 632 is a wobbler offense, meaning that it can be charged as either a misdemeanor or a felony at the prosecutor’s discretion.

   If the prosecutor decides to charge the crime as a misdemeanor, then the maximum penalties are:

   imprisonment in the county jail for up to one year, and/or a fine of up to $2,500.

   If charged as a felony, then eavesdropping is punishable by:

   up to sixteen months, two years, or three years in county jail or state prison, and/or a fine of up to $2,500."

   I would inform your employee of the law in your State and the consequences for breaking that law.

5. surfnwriteJuly 1,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

   You are completely missing the elephant in the room.

6. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 12:40PM UTC

   The elephant you’re implying being missed here is irrelevant. This entire thread is speculating a reason for the bosses behavior, which accomplishes nothing. The law is perhaps the only thing relevant here.

7. AnonymousJune 29,2023 at 7:14PM UTC

   Out of curiosity, why does she feel she would need to record her sessions? Does this employee have a history of "bad behavior" and that is why she was written up?

   Not defending her side but just curious.

   Yes, there are laws about recording/consent and I agree on the below comments (even if it is a state law, perhaps it should be a written policy).

8. AnonymousJune 29,2023 at 9:25PM UTC

   Let her know that recording is not going to be allowed as all parties are not in agreement. When they meet, another person should be present and taking notes of the occurence.

9. AnonymousJune 29,2023 at 10:37PM UTC

   She is on a PIP and doing something she has been told is illegal. If she is continuing to do it, then what is the question?

10. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 6:12PM UTC

    That's a bit obtuse, isn't it? Lots of questions.

    *Is* it illegal or is the management misinformed? I'd like to now what state this is.

    What's the crux of the issue(s) here? Why is she on a PIP? Does she feel unfairly singled out? Is this a one-off in an otherwise healthy work environment? Accurate record is protection for an employee and it's all they have in cases of truly wrongful action.

    And let's face it, if an employee is not well liked, management is going to engage other managers to circle the wagons and come up with a way to get rid of an employee, warranted or not.

11. Mary PoolJune 30,2023 at 12:30PM UTC

    So here are my questions: Why is the boss objecting to the recordings? Why does she feel the need to record? That would be a red flag for me. Perhaps you can offer an alternative where someone must be present in all of their interactions. If she feels unsafe with her boss, then that needs to be addressed. It seems to me you are concentrating on the symptoms and not the root of the problem.

12. AnonymousJune 30,2023 at 12:59PM UTC

    If the employee in question is on a pip and has been written up for her behavior, has any other coworker mentioned the behavior? Like the comment above, why does she need to record? There has to be a problem that is not being addressed.

    I went through this where my direct boss would be all sweet to me and then out of nowhere berated my behavior and said I was rude to colleagues and brought in HR to discuss my behavior. When I asked for examples and people who have mentioned my behavior, they refused. I then documented all my interactions followed by asking colleagues if I answered their questions and apologized if I was abrupt. They were questioning why I asked that.

    Of course, hr then said I was causing more issues.

    I'm not saying either is guilty or innocent 100%.

13. AnonymousJune 30,2023 at 1:44PM UTC

    This really depends on where the meetings are happening. If they are on the phone or in the boss' office with the door closed, then yes, the employee is violating the law and you could terminate their employment. If, however, the meetings are happening with the door open, or in open areas, then the employee is not breaking any laws as there is no expectation of privacy and the employee is acting under "self-protection" loop holes.

    Importantly, as other commenters have asked, why does this employee feel the need to record? People don't usually randomly feel the need to start recording interactions with a single person. There's almost always a reason.

    The manager's job is to help this person complete their PIP successfully so they can remain employed and do better. So if the employee is asking to record, the manager should be willing and open to this. As a manager myself, the only two reasons I can think of that a manager would ever decline to be recorded in a meeting with an employee is if the manager is doing something wrong or if they have to share embargoed or secured information in those meetings. I'm guessing that it's not the latter.

14. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 6:05PM UTC

    Good point about the manager's job - I wonder if the manager and employee understand the goal of a PIP, whether that's been properly communicated, or if this PIP is just a documentation step on the way to a termination that has already been decided.

    Either way, more info is needed.

    I've seen often that staff, be it production or management, just sucks and are allowed to suck for too long a time, dragging down teams and departments before dismissal (or promotion? ha).

    This can be anything from poor/desperate hiring fit, weak management, unsupported management, lack of consistent engagement with staff, lack of qualification, or an employee that has a poor attitude and doesn't care to pull her/his weight.

15. surfnwriteJuly 1,2023 at 12:25PM UTC

    The question I have is why is the boss not agreeing to it? Is there some reason they don't want what they say on the record? As an HR person, THAT would be my focus, not your employee who wants to record it.

16. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    I agree to an extent. It does make one wonder if the manager is refusing to be recorded because they are trying to cover something up or prevent something from coming to light. If you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing then you would think there should be no concern from the manager of being recorded.

    on the flip side though, if they are in a 2 party state then both sides have to consent and if he doesn’t want to consent then he doesn’t have to. I could also think maybe he is worried/paranoid about accidentally saying something that can be twisted/misinterpreted and now it’s on a recording so can’t be unsaid. Maybe he’s just being overly cautious.

    It definitely seems like more information is needed from the manager (is there a specific reason or concern why you don’t want to be recorded?) and I also like the other poster’s idea of HR being present on all meetings to make sure no recordings are happening if there’s no full consent and also to ensure the manager is following the PIP correctly.

    also what does your legal dept say? I’d imagine they might have a position on whether they want manager-employee convos recorded or not.

17. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:32AM UTC

    If you consent to be recorded by an employee on a personal device you are giving them the ability to do whatever they want with that recording. They could edit and manipulate it. They could put my face and voice online to be used by AI scrapers among others. If the employee wants all meetings documented, they should be asking for HR to be present. Not making an unauthorized recording.

18. GirlBossanova934974July 1,2023 at 12:36PM UTC

    As a person who was on a PIP at one job, I can emphasize with the employee to some degree. Some managers are just plain dishonest, deceitful, and far less than ethical. At the time of my PIP, my manager was trying to cover up his own failure to deliver. He hired in with all sorts of big promises and looking for a distraction to cover up his failures. He had no idea what he was doing. HOWEVER ALL THAT BEING SAID, that does NOT excuse an employee in this case breaking state law. HR needs to step in here and stop these recordings. IF the recordings do not stop, a termination notice should be delivered. The OBVIOUS smart play for HR here is to get on the calls with the manager and employee and monitor the situation. Make sure the PIP process is followed, not just a formality to railroading the employee out the door.

19. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 12:57PM UTC

    That is a great answer for some reason these new HR teams do not like to be in involved and employees become railroaded. I’ve seen where upper leadership does not like an employee but the direct managers do nothing to advocate for the employees. They are just trying to keep their jobs. The managers only want to record when they want too.

20. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 5:54PM UTC

    In cases where management is on level or close with influential parties in the company, I'm sure they'd record without consent, and share with HR and/or other parties. Depends on the situation, but I've seen several instances of where there's a different set of "rules" for management staff, depending on the organization size and structure.

    I'm curious to hear both sides of the situation.

21. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 1:02PM UTC

    What was not stated in the original write-up was if the employee filed a formal complaint against her Boss, if so, firing her may be an act of retaliation, which is against the law as well, but, that also does not excuse her behavior of illegally recording her manager. Sounds like HR needs to step in and diffuse this before it is too late.

22. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    I would ask why she feels like she needs to record these meetings. Why is the boss not agreeing to do so?

    I worked in a very prestigious Australian mining company, and PIPs most of the times were a boss issue more than an employee issue.

23. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 5:50PM UTC

    Half agree. Sometimes people need to be cut loose, and sometimes management sucks.

    I've seen rising management allowed to skirt performance and basic behavioural standards, while "lower value" production staff held to a different standard, i.e., company policy, and terminated.

    I've also seen dead-weight production staff allowed allowed to hang around way longer than they should have.

24. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:30AM UTC

    Why would I agree to be recorded by an employee on a personal device in a day and age when they could do anything with that recording. It's different if a meeting is being officially recorded by HR and officially documented.

25. Vanda LeeJuly 1,2023 at 1:19PM UTC

    I was in a horrible boss situation a few years ago and I recorded my conversations with him and would use the recording to type up and document exactly what was said immediately after the conversation. So basically I turned the recording into a written documentation of the exchange never mentioning that I recorded it.

26. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 1:32PM UTC

    Although I would not advise the person doing the recording to do this I hope that she is reading this because that is a very viable piece of advice. “Fire her immediately“ is the most ignorant piece of advice I have ever seen on this platform because it does not solve the problem.

27. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 5:20PM UTC

    That’s exactly the way. You also have to take notes while the meeting is going on or they’ll wonder how you remembered everything so clearly.

28. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:29AM UTC

    And depending on the state, you could be sued for making that recording as could the company.

29. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 1:30PM UTC

    I seriously wish I could download this comment.

30. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 1:52PM UTC

    So I’m guessing you’ve never been in a situation where your boss abuses you in private and then pretends ‘you’ were the problem? Lucky you!

    If the boss is not willing to be recorded, it’s very possible the boss is the problem.

    Since the boss is refusing, the employee should then have the right to have someone present with her at any meetings with her boss.

31. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 4:16PM UTC

    Recordings can be manipulated, e.g. Kanye and Taylor much? I’ve been on both sides of this. Frankly, what she’s doing is illegal. And the boss likely is following company policy. Witnesses and legal are everyone’s friends here. She’s on a one way to termination.

32. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 2:15AM UTC

    Sorry, but why is a manager more likely to be following company policy?? You do realize that there are a significant number of people that get ahead by ruining others so they “look good”. It takes an enormous amount of skill to accurately manipulate a recording. I mean, you’re comparing an employee with a manager to Kanye and Taylor lol? Must be a very wealthy employee! It sounds like you either have been very lucky in avoiding being attacked or do not respect people at all levels of the hierarchy, which would frankly be very disturbing if you’re in HR. You say you’ve been on both sides of the situation, but this is not the impression your comments make. It’s very important to respect all employees, not just ones that are more senior and thus “likely to follow company policy”. I sincerely hope that you have not sent bullied employees “one way to termination” - if you have, you should perhaps rethink working with people.

33. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 12:11PM UTC

    Managers are just as likely to ignore policy as any other member of staff.

    I had a manager ask me to lie on my timesheets to "avoid paperwork".

    There's no difference. And no, they didn't do anything to him, even though it was documented and I went to HR.

34. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 5:29PM UTC

    Not easily manipulated without the result being obvious. Not just talking about clean clips, but differences in tone, smooth conversation continuity, etc. And really, who's going to go to all that trouble? It takes hours to review audio, and hours and days further to come up with some schemed recording. It would end up the audio equivalent of one of those ransom letters made from letters cut and pasted from a magazine.

    Kanye and Taylor? I don't know what this is about, but they're both recording artists and have access to post production gear. Seriously doubtful a person is going to go to the trouble of downloading conversations into an audio editor and clipping this and that to make it into something it isn't.

    I'm all for getting rid of dead weight, but PIPs and performance reviews are sometimes one-sided, biased to benefit a company.

    If all on the up and up, what's the harm?

35. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:28AM UTC

    I would not want an employee to have a recording of my voice and face when I have no recourse to stop them from misusing it. If the employee wants the meetings recorded, HR needs to step in and do it - not a person on their personal device.

36. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 1:56PM UTC

    Must be something not right going on if you feel the need to record, however take notes there are no laws about taking notes, if recorded with day and time and what was said like a journal or diary as far as I know that can be admissible in court I would take no it’s while in the meeting then send an email with a synopsis of what was said .

    I have had managers that I would like to have recorded they were sexually inappropriate and harassed me for years , so I understand wanting to record them

    however if you record and it’s illegal I don’t think anything g that is said can be used if recorded illegally but by all means check with a lawyer.

    my advice would be if you feel this threatened it’s not a good place to work find a new job a new boss learn lessons from this and move on

    this is so not worth your time and emotional toll.get a new job, be happy life is short , and years from now it won’t matter

37. Kelley LambJuly 2,2023 at 9:00PM UTC

    This is a very intense situation and your HR administration should be giving you direction. Employees who are placed on PIP are not doing their wrk and have not improved after coaching them and supporting them to make the improvements necessary. Managers don't like PIP as they are a lot of work and make staff upset. So sounds like this employee rather than get her act together is going on the offense to catch her manager saying the wrong thing. That's my take on it. Do your job and you won't need to be counseled where your nose may say something out of frustration with you not doing your job. I would take this wanting to record the manager as a deflection from doing their job. Have a third party present when they meet. Period. No recording. That is ridiculous.

38. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 10:10PM UTC

    The assumption is that management always has the best interest in mind when dealing the associates. I worked at a company in which they installed a new district director who installed his own store directors at key locations. They all engaged in 'loyalty test' and punished those who didn't follow through with PIPs. I was asked to set up other leaders to be terminated by imposing expectations on them that they were not aware of at the last minute of their shifts. When they refused to comply, I was to suspend them and they would be fired. Another was given a number, no particular names, but a number of leaders she needed to fire for whatever reason to keep her position. Another was asked to fire her best leader. When she refused, that leader was demoted and she was placed on a PIP. At the last conversation she was reminded that she told the district director she wouldn't do it and that she should just "think about that." The district director then went to the leader he demoted and promoted him back to his old position. Corporate HR, chairmans of the board, and executive leaders were all aware of these behaviors due to a slew of complaints being filed.

    Without more details, we really have no idea. It's a case of: is HR looking to protect the company from liability and legal action or are they making sure that all practices are being properly conducted and the associate in question feels safe in the environment she is in.

    (I know a director who promised to help getting somebody promoted if she slept with him. But because she didn't have an record, it was "he said, she said.")

39. Fernanda MartinezJuly 1,2023 at 2:36PM UTC

    At this point, I would highly suggest that you advise both the manager and employee that someone else be present at every meeting until things are resolved (if they ever resolve in a positive way). If she is wanting to record the conversation is probably because there is something not right going on or being said. If she files a grievance of any sort it is your job to ensure that it is properly investigated. Also, you can advise her that in your state is illegal to record anyone without their consent and even if something illegal is said by the person, the recording is not admissible in court. Good luck, this sounds like a bad situation but I would be cautious about taking sides - just be neutral in your exchange with both.

40. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 3:27PM UTC

    Being in HR, I would be concerned as to what is stopping the manager from being ok with being recorded. Maybe she needs it as part of her memory and learning style. Perhaps the recording needs to be with HR in the room. The woman may not be able to use the recording in court, but a recording does allow for less confusion when remembering what was said and done. At the start of every meeting where she is recording then the manager can say they do not consent to being recorded. That would make it inadmissible in court.

    I ended up recording my boss with every interaction I could because he was abusive and violated all kinds of laws. I hit the record button and put it in my pocket. He didn’t know. We are also a 1 person knowledge state so it’s not quite the same.

    I would not jump to firing. That could be considered retaliation. Especially if they can prove they are trying to improve.

41. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:26AM UTC

    Videos can be manipulated and edited. I wouldn't want a shady employee having a voice and video recording of me on a personal device. If HR wants to step in and be present and make an official recording that is held in personnel files that's fine. But a rando recording me and then having the ability to do whatever they want with my face and my voice? No thank you.

42. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 4:21PM UTC

    Maybe there is more HR should look into - namely, why would her boss care so much about being recorded? What are they hiding? Since it’s a dual consent state, it wouldn’t necessarily be admissible in court, but the employee deserves to be heard and clearly the recordings are offering her some level of support for advocating for herself. I live in a one party consent state and am freshly out of a very, very bad situation at work with a verbally abusive manager and supervisor who we’re going out of their way to find any opportunity to get me out because I did not fit their “preferred” age group for the team. HR did nothing to support me (I understand HR’s sole responsibility is to the company and NOT the employee) and I was forced to get an attorney. You can bet I recorded every last one-on-one meeting.

    If the PIP is a valid performance concern, then there shouldn’t be any reason why the recordings should matter (she may even be using it for her own recall). The manager that is having such an issue with it sounds like a huge red flag for me.

43. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 5:18PM UTC

    How did it end for you - are you going to court?

44. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 8:14PM UTC

    Settled before litigation.

45. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 6:33PM UTC

    This exactly - why does the manager not consent? What are they hiding?

46. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:24AM UTC

    I would never allow an employee to record me on a personal device where I have no means of knowing what they might do with that video. Videos can be edited and manipulated. They can be put online or used for AI scraping. If HR wants to step in and record, cool, but it is never appropriate to allow an employee to record anyone and you're lucky you didn't get sued for that last one-on-one you recorded.

47. AnonymousJuly 4,2023 at 6:13PM UTC

    Im in a single party state and was advised by legal counsel that it was well within my right to record. Also, it was not a video recording, but audio.

48. AnonymousJuly 6,2023 at 6:43PM UTC

    Single party state doesn't eliminate the possibility of being sued for invasion of privacy if you did not inform the other person they were being recorded.

49. Jeremy AllenJuly 1,2023 at 6:42PM UTC

    So depends on the state. Are you sure you aren’t confusing “consent” with being “informed”

50. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 7:57PM UTC

    Eww an HR rep protecting sleazy managers and the company

51. AnonymousJuly 1,2023 at 8:21PM UTC

    How do you know the manager isn’t “violating policy”? We don’t know the whole story and sure sounds like the Manager is VERY worried about hiding something. This comment right here is hugely irresponsible and is exactly what’s wrong with Workplace investigations and HR Departments everywhere.

52. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:27AM UTC

    Both people can be wrong, but that doesn't change that in a two party consent state recording the manager without consent is creating a legal issue for the company. Beyond that, it is extremely naive to assume that people who are in trouble wouldn't manipulate a video on their personal device.

53. Caleb SinkeJuly 3,2023 at 10:12PM UTC

    Actually consent in a two-party state can be as simple as informing them that you will be recording and if they continue with the conversation, they have implied consent. No legal issue.

54. AnonymousJuly 6,2023 at 6:44PM UTC

    Not in all of them - My state requires verbal or written consent.

55. misskelleypJuly 2,2023 at 1:32AM UTC

    If it's a two party consent state then the employee can take notes, but may not record. If the employee insists, you need to bring in Legal Counsel on how best to proceed.

56. Linda GeiterJuly 2,2023 at 1:10PM UTC

    The parties do not need to agree. They just need to be informed.

57. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:23AM UTC

    Depends on the state - Some states are two party consent states.

58. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 1:32PM UTC

    Most states aren't mutual consent states... only 11. And consent varies... simply informing the boss that he/she will be recorded and if he/she continues with the conversation, then consent is implied. Why not reach out to legal counsel and come up with an amicable solution? A third-party may sit in on the meetings as a witness.

    Frequently PIPs are used to justify poor leadership from the person giving the PIP. If a person's areas of responsibility are failing, it's either the manager or the associates... and since the manager gets to decide, she/he can make it appear like they are taking action by using PIPs. I know of a instance in which a store manager was attempting to PIP a leader out, and the HR business partner reviewed all her well-documented and thorough reports and determined that at no point was the store manager trying to help the leader improve but merely documenting all the reasons to terminate her. I've also been in a PIP situation with HR, during which all the expectations listed had actually been met and all concerns resolved BUT were still going to be included in the decision for demotion... as well as the introduction of incidents that occurred involving my team members that were kept from me for months until they could be used against me in this conversation. (The boss in question was allowing harassment and bullying to take place, as well as participating in it. I filed official complaints leading to other people filing complaints of a hostile work environment as well. Believe me, I should have recorded all our conversations.)

59. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 4:03PM UTC

    You are spot on! I was promoted and shortly after had issues with my boss, such as her telling me my peer was incompetent so I had to do her work for her. I also saw unethical behavior. I tried to resolve with her and then had to engage her boss and HR. Right after that she tried to put me on a PIP and couldn’t explain why even went as far as writing in the PIP that it was unacceptable for me to go to HR about HR related issues (yup she was that damn stupid).. I say all that to reinforce that company’s absolutely don’t address poor leadership and employees need to protect themselves… not all PIPs are justified!

60. Evelyn Aimee De JesusJuly 2,2023 at 3:20PM UTC

    I am compelled to write...

    Your employee is hostile and most likely in a lawsuit mode.

    Use the desire to record to your advantage and deescalate a lawsuit. Tell your manager to be polite and amicable. In fact, ask the employee if she also wants to record meetings with camera "so she feels happy."

    Use reverse psychology and at all times show your disposition to support her.

    You will disarm her/him.

61. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:22AM UTC

    It's one thing if HR decides to step in and record the meetings, but allowing the employee to record themselves on a personal device - nope.

62. AnonymousJuly 8,2023 at 1:16PM UTC

    Spoken like a true HR rep! See everyone? This is what they do. Protect the company, and managers. The only upside is, most don’t know employment law. I hope the employee researches and informs themselves. Let’s pray she isn’t trusting the HR reps. They are only listening to find ways to lie and discredit the liability the employee is creating against the company.

63. AnonymousJuly 2,2023 at 5:31PM UTC

    What state is it?
    Why was she written up?
    Presuming other staff are held to same performance standards, yes? What is her complaint/reason for wanting to record?

64. Juanita BrownJuly 2,2023 at 9:32PM UTC

    Yes. I had an employee do this as well in a two-party consent state. We did not threaten or pursue legal action because you can do that if the employee uses those recordings. We did send an email reminder to her about our state being -two-party and required a 'read receipt.' However, we immediately added this rule to our employee handbook and had all staff members re-sign the employee handbook acknowledgement.

65. AnonymousJuly 4,2023 at 2:58PM UTC

    Sounds like priority was misaligned.

66. Alan Sims Jr.July 2,2023 at 11:31PM UTC

    Why would they not agree?

67. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 12:21AM UTC

    Because video can be manipulated and if an employee is recording me on a personal device, they could manipulate the video to look like I said or did something I didn't. They could post it online and make it available to others including AI scraping software. There are all kinds of reasons I wouldn't want someone to have video of me.

68. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 10:37PM UTC

    Manipulated!!! Lol. So can what HR and managers say what happened and what really happened. HR has already proven to be dishonest that is why they don’t want it recorded. So they can manipulate the meeting and what happened. Notes can be manipulated more easily than a recording. All these HR reps on here with their intimidation tactics.

69. Mary WehrleJuly 2,2023 at 11:55PM UTC

    If your employee feels the need to record her conversations with her boss, then maybe you want to ensure that all conversations need to have an HR staff member present.

    This boss may be the problem and not the employee.

70. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 9:24PM UTC

    Plenty of employees think they are in the right when they are not. Feeling a need to record one's self suggests they may be litigious, but that's not proof that they are in the right.

71. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 8:13PM UTC

    They are trying to get proof, and HR discredits the employee. It’s only illegal in a few states, not all. Research and be informed.

72. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 4:39AM UTC

    Obviously they aren't consenting because they have things to hide. I'm in a similar sitch. I think it's very unfortunate to have to record everything because people are dishonest and play games.

73. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 9:24PM UTC

    No, that's not obvious. Not all employees who feel wronged are good or honorable people. I don't want a near stranger having a recording of me on a personal device.

74. AnonymousJuly 4,2023 at 2:56PM UTC

    Oh I didn't say all who feel wronged are good or.honorable. But a recording would sure clear all that up.

75. AnonymousJuly 6,2023 at 6:42PM UTC

    If it's recorded by a third party who is unbiased. I wouldn't trust a dishonorable employee not to edit the video.

76. Kehkashan AwanJuly 3,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    Does your organisation have an HR policy regarding recording of meetings. Considering that there could be confidential business or organisational information shared during such meetings, a policy outlining the circumstances under which recording can be adopted and the process to be followed should be an essential guideline. In this case the boss is an employee as well and his right to a psychologically safe workplace cannot be ignored. If the employee on PIP has a grievance against the boss then that should be recorded on paper and handled through the Grievance Management process. Additionally both boss and subordinate should be provided professional coaching to handle this situation which seems to contain passive-aggressive behaviour from the subordinate and may create a bigger problem for the organisation.

77. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 8:10PM UTC

    The grievance process which is heavily controlled by HR who try anything to get you to go away and will never admit to any violations. They WILL lie about you. I say record their conniving bu**s. THey are there to protect the company and their own jobs. You think they are going to advocate for you? Please understand a lot of people have researched or have experienced this. HR is nothing but a viper pit.

78. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 1:52PM UTC

    I would absolutely insist that a third party be present for any interaction. Someone isnt going to record themselves if they think they are the problem. Something is up with your manager. HR needs to be involved in the PIP and leadership. This employee doesnt feel safe and in my experience if one of them doesnt, there are others just keeping their head down and burning themselves out.

79. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 9:23PM UTC

    I had an employee threaten to get a gun and shoot me then tell HR there was no problem with what was said to me. Employees do all sorts of things that would shock you and defy logic. There's no way of knowing that the employee is in the right because they are recording themselves. Many people on these very boards think they have legal standing to sue when they definitely do not.

80. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 11:37PM UTC

    Agree. I had an employee follow me into and track my time spent in the bathroom, and submit it to HR because she was told she needed to change a process and didn’t agree with me. When told this was an inappropriate use of her time and to stop doing this, she filled a harassment claim and threatened to hit me with her car. People are wild.

81. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 6:31PM UTC

    The amount of speculation on this post is alarming. Given the advancement of AI and the prevalence of lawsuits there are endless reasons to not allow someone to record you on a personal device. The facts here, the organization needs to consult legal counsel and their own policies. The employee on the PIP is breaking the law regardless of whatever else you are inferring about the situation.

82. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 8:59PM UTC

    Not necessarily. Without more information, all we have is speculation. What is the definition of consent for the particular state in which this is occurring? Generally, consent is implied if the conversation continues once all parties are informed. There needs to be no actual "yes or no." So, depending on the state in which this is occurring, the fact that the boss has been informed and continues to proceed with the conversation, consent can be legally inferred.

    I see this as a balancing between "traditional" HR roles and the type of HR that people are advocating these days. One is protect the company and its managers from liability and lawsuits. The other asks the questions: how was the PIP administered? What things were done to help this associate prior to this? Why does this person feel like it is necessary to have a record of their conversations with their boss?

83. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 9:22PM UTC

    Most two party consent states require a verbal or written agreement consenting to the recording so no, it cannot be inferred. I work in a state where that is the case and we have to verbally agree at the top of any meeting being recorded.

84. AnonymousJuly 10,2023 at 12:47AM UTC

    Not sure how many of the 11 state with two-party consent are most... but the laws are rather grey... An example: "This means that in Montana you are not legally allowed to secretly record a conversation unless all parties are in agreement, but in some situations recordings can be made without consent as long as this is not done covertly. This means that although consent is not required, all parties must be notified that the conversation is being recorded." Without knowing the actual state, it's a toss up on whether or not the employee is in violation. More importantly, why does the employee feel the need to record meetings with the leader? That's the first question I would ask.

85. AnonymousJuly 3,2023 at 10:35PM UTC

    The original post says the boss is not agreeing so I’m not sure that the possibility consent is being implied is relevant.

    I also find it interesting that so many people are jumping to the employees defense. I’ve only on rare occasion seen PIPs implemented as anything other than a last resort to an employee unresponsive to preliminary feedback/coaching/ etc. If we’re going to speculate I think it’s just as plausible the employee is demanding to record conversations simply as a measure to try to scare their boss that they’re wrong. It’s not often bad employees think they’re bad employees .

86. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 8:46PM UTC

    you are speculating also that she lives in one of the only 11 states that are 2 party consent states.

87. AnonymousJuly 8,2023 at 6:22PM UTC

    The post literally says they’re in a two party state

88. AnonymousJuly 5,2023 at 8:16PM UTC

    Yes, I take notes and issue them through email.

89. Vivian HwaJuly 5,2023 at 9:19PM UTC

    Explain that it's a crime and unusable information if discovered that she was secretly recording. But also let her know she can take as many notes as she likes, take her time, write down quotes and send in a follow-up email confirming the notes and quotes.

90. AnonymousJuly 6,2023 at 6:08PM UTC

    I swear you HR reps and your intimidation tactics. It's not illegal in all states and you can play if for your attorney and go from there. These HR reps keep these type of things on unrecorded as so they can cast a shadow of a doubt and make it a he said she said type of scenario. They are such snakes. Check out what is legal and what isn't in your state and don't trust anything an HR rep tells you. They lie

91. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 6:50PM UTC

    Absolutely. HR is there to protect the company- they will NEVER be forthright or honest with employees about their rights. The only way an employee can advocate for themselves is to do research, self-educate, and consult an attorney— that is the ONLY way an employee might have a fair chance.

92. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 8:36PM UTC

    But isn’t violating an employee’s rights illegal also? They are possibly breaking the law and will never admit to that… I say record away!!!! Management and HR do all sorts of illegal stuff. What about if she is being sexually harassed and reported it and then she got a PIP? You never know what is going down.

93. AnonymousJuly 7,2023 at 8:44PM UTC

    There are only 11 out of our 50 states that are 2 party states. That means in 38 states it legal. I say Record them