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I have an employee who writes and speaks unprofessionally.

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I have an employee who writes and speaks unprofessionally. I addressed it a couple times in the nicest of ways. I mentioned proof reading before completing communications. Most recently he became defensive and basically stated this is what it is. Am I being unreasonable in asking him to review his written communications?

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  1. Sharon Grehan

    Not unreasonable at all, try documenting the impact of his miscommunications so that you can link it to outcomes (vs personal preference). Incorporate the feedback into year end reviews and areas for development next year. Sometimes you need to change how you measure success in order to change behavior. Sorry to hear he is being defensive when you are clearly trying to help him show up as more professional

  2. Anonymous

    I mentioned a very important document he sent to executives and the grammatical errors. He rolled his eyes.

  3. Heather Cutler

    You’ll need to start attaching consequences to unedited documents that go to executives. This is an unsustainable path forward and it will reflect negatively on you as a leader. I’m sorry this is happening.

  4. Shelley Munro

    He rolled his eyes! Wow…just wow.

    Ok, as painful as this might be for you for the time being I would consider putting him on a strict “all communications must go through me, until further notice” action plan. For 30 days, proofread his communications and send them back to him for correction and CC you on the final email. If it’s getting better progress to just CC’ing you on all emails for the next 30 days. At the end of that 30 days if he’s doing good, take the training wheels off and back to business as usual.

  5. Vanda Lee

    While his response is not acceptable at all I'm wondering where it comes from. I believe you stated earlier that you looked at his past reviews and it was mentioned. Did that manager offer help or just scold him? His negative response appears to be conditioned by how it's been handled pre-you. I worked with a teammate that was in a similar situation and all our manager did was fuss at him which made him feel "dumb" - this guy was close to retirement age and he typed communication like he "talked" but with a lot of typo mistakes. Our manager just told him he needed to get "someone" to proofread his correspondence...which ended up being me. I suggested some online proofreading tools and that helped. If this is a person who otherwise does good work, I would invest the time and resources for the suggested writing class and other tools that have been suggested before I started disciplinary action.

  6. Anonymous

    This post is so timely! I have an employee and their written and verbal communication is not great. I can get past the verbal, but with the written, there are tons of misspellings, using the wrong punctuation or none at all, sometimes using the wrong words, not being clear on what they need and sending meeting invites out with a confusing subject or no agenda in the body of the invite. The problem is that we communicate with senior and executive level leadership oftentimes via email. I've coached them to always take a step back after writing emails and then come back later to proofread them. It's to the point where I have them send me the emails prior to sending them out so that I can make corrections. We're a brand new team and again we're communicating with senior level leadership and if your first impression includes grammatical errors and not being clear on what you need I feel that may make our department look unprofessional. I can't and don't want to proofread emails forever so I'm thinking of requiring them to take a business writing class.

    Long story short, you are not being unreasonable.

  7. Anonymous

    I love that. Where can I find a business writing class? I will take it as well so they don’t feel alienated. I am embarrassed when he sends emails because I feel it reflects poorly on me that I allow the horrible grammar.

  8. Laura Bair

    I would suggest that the entire team take the class, and then go out for burgers afterwards. THAT is team building!

  9. Anonymous

    Thanks for your insight Laura! I'm not one that subscribes to forcing all to do something in order to address a developmental opportunity for one. The rest of the team knows how to craft a written email. Business writing is a skill like Excel or SQL and I wouldn't want to make advanced users take a class with someone that would be considered a beginner.

  10. Anonymous

    The other team members could use the refresher.

  11. Anonymous

    Would you want to waste your time working on basic skills that you've already mastered? I'd prefer to have my team focus on working on their developmental opportunities or learning a new skill.

  12. Anonymous

    You are correct. I am going to just assign it to him. Looking back on previous reviews, this issue has been addressed for years. He is highly offended though.

  13. Laura Bair

    Everyone could use refresher courses. Either to 1) remember something they had forgotten, or 2) actually learn something, or 3) help others to learn something. No one is perfect and to assume so is very presumptuous. If, after having gone through the refresher, he is still struggling, then it may be time to let him go. It's one thing to have one of your staff offended and quite another to continue to let the company, as a whole, look incompetent.

  14. Anonymous

    I am brilliant (promise not bragging, took me a long long time to even own it); however I CANNOT SPELL, never could. Its so bad that spellcheck cannot help most days. The more I tried, the worse it got. I had a person who came to work for me. She got so frustrated with it that she offered to review my official communication for me. Later on I was diagnosed with severe combined ADHD and we finally understood why. I even tell people my weakness is spelling, and that I need help. The "read aloud" tools are amazing at helping as well. I am at the Senior Leadership level.

  15. Anonymous

    I have a manager who does not know the difference between "our" & "are", and ever so much more.
    Her letters are embarrassing to read and fail to convey the message because of the glaring errors. This woman decides my future with this company. Unbelievable.

  16. Anonymous

    Awful! My employee wants to be in management.

  17. Anonymous

    I’m going through this right now. My second is struggling with being firm and fair. their responses come across rude and abrupt with spelling errors. No idea what to to do. Thinking of some email templates.

  18. Marcelle Magenta

    it would be wise to send him an email explaining the company's requirements regarding communication with both internal and external customers. Advise him that you will be sending him on a business English class in order to assist in bringing his skills up to the required levels. Should his communication not improve it could affect his future with the company and ultimately lead to his termination. If you require a Teacher for this ,please let me know.

  19. Shelly Edwards

    Do you manage this employee? If so, I tell him the "is what it is" defense does not work and that he needs to start meeting or exceeding expectations. Then work with him on any training he may need to help get him to that level. Maybe it's a training course, help with proofreading skills, or whatever he needs. I would not let him just tell you to deal with it. Set the standard and make him rise to it.

  20. Carmen Honacker

    Absolutely not unreasonable. I would potentially remind the person that strong written and verbal communication skills are necessary to be understood in business and then offer to help him with improving.

    Years ago, I had to proofread literally every note from my two leads, because their written communication was so bad, that it either made them look bad, or people couldn't follow what they were trying to say. So no, not acceptable to answer with "it is what it is."

  21. Mary Pool

    Purchase him a copy of Grammarly and tell him he needs to put all communications through it before sending. A simple solution; I don't know why more companies don't purchase it!

  22. Afo Ogbeyalu Kalu

    Confer with your HR Department, and ask for tools to begin a Coaching and Counseling Action with him. If the department does not have formal tools, Google-search "Coaching, Counseling, Progressive Discipline Templates", and then vet the use of these tools with HR, or the person you report directly to. Also, find out if HR has access, or would compensate your department for professional writing courses, and professional effective communication seminars. Stress to the employee in question, that he is a vital member of the team, a representative of the department/organization, and that how he presents himself and communicates corporate messaging matters internally, and to the communities your organization serves.

  23. Susan Holland

    Clear communication is an essential part of his job. Training needs to be provided along with clear understanding of the consequences around this - not only for staying in this job, but just for any employment anytime in his future.

    I do wonder what personal stuff underlies this. People get defensive because they feel they need to defend something. I wonder if this person is sensitive to this issue and/or how it has been approached in the past and now in the present.

    This could be an interesting conversation to be had if there has been good trust established - that is, if the conversation is held not to just tell him what he is doing wrong, but to help him grow as a professional.

  24. Valerie Rieger

    Absolutely not! You are well within your rights to expect your staff to communicate professionally and to hold them to that standard.

    My guess is that he's doing the best he can. Have you suggested or directed him to professional or business writing training programs? I've had some courses taught onsite and had everyone in a department attend. Even those who were good communicators found value in the training.

  25. Anonymous

    His grammatics have many errors. I found a class. He is defensive. Not sure if only he should take it or the entire team.

  26. Melissa

    You could assign class(es) to him and set it as one of his goals that is measured by whether he passes the courses and completes them. At the company I work for we have training that can be assigned directly to us employees by our boss or entire leadership depending upon what skills we need to work on. If there’s a system for assigning annual ethics or security classes, that’s where it might be offered to assign to him directly.

  27. Anonymous

    I want to but he is sensitive. My fear is he will be offended and go straight to HR as he has done to other managers in the past.

  28. BTess

    If he goes to HR, it appears you have documentation that this is not a “you” issue. Previous feedback from other managers indicated this skill deficiency, so he doesn’t have a case if nothing n his performance evaluations indicate improvement (or even effort) over previous complaints. Can you pull copies of some of the offending communications as evidence of need for improvement and include it in your documentation? Someone mentioned a PIP; document the reviews from other managers, copies of his offending communications, document the instances where you addressed the issue with him directly and include that when putting together a PIP. Also, a PIP would be a tool in which HR is involved and would protect you in a situation where he goes to HR. If you approach it as a professional development need and not personal bias problem, and you have the documentation in place, a complaint from him to HR will have no weight.

  29. Ayian

    I am going to throw my vote in for Grammarly as well. Your employee need not learn themselves, just use the tool. Make it part of their job description if necessary.

  30. Kitty Breed

    Yes, and I find that using Grammarly is changing the way I write.

  31. Anonymous

    My two cents: Grammar in school never made sense to me. I simply thought about how my mother would say it and was usually right. This person needs help, obviously but I'm not sure a grammar class will do it. I would lean toward a class where work is proofread and the student corrects the error.

  32. Anonymous

    The entire team, broach it as ongoing learning and a skill we all need to brush up occasionally

  33. Anonymous

    Like it!

  34. Valerie Rieger

    I would suggest the class for the entire team. Everyone could probably benefit from a refresher course.

  35. Anonymous

    There are two things at play: “professional writing/speech” and clarity. They are different. The construct of professional communication is deeply rooted in white supremacy and classism. It is a skill for sure - but it is almost always based on white expectations of what professional means. The ability to be clear is a different topic. This is about organizing your thoughts, considering the recipient, and knowing what your own agenda is. Also a taught skill, but one that isn’t rooted in racism. Granted many companies require a standard of communication - it is not mutually exclusive to racist and classist undertones that feel very different to people who do not have those privileges. I’m not saying you can fix the company culture, but being aware of origins of expectations can be very helpful in crafting a way to support an employee.

  36. Anonymous

    I have a couple of questions....is professionally how the company has normally communicated, is it that there is certain "company speak" he is not using, is it he doesn't communicate like you, or it is really a communication issue. I have found that in many companies, unprofessional means "the way everyone else in the company does it" while we say how much we embrace diversity. If he is actually unprofessional, its all in the approach. Do team trainings over a variety of subjects that include this one. If you interviewed and hired this person, this communications issue should not be a sudden surprise.

  37. Anonymous

    I did not hire this person. This issue has been addressed before I arrived at this company. Many grammatical errors.

  38. Tiffany O

    agreed

  39. Chrishogg

    Just out of curiosity (and this can be filed under locking the barn door after the horse got out), but if writing was / is an important part of this person's job, how were they hired in the first place? Was / is there no test or job qualification that could / should have been applied prior to hiring? And if not, based on this experience, there is one in place now, right? Right?

  40. Anonymous

    I have no idea. I have been here under a year. Reviewing past reviews, this issue has been addressed with the employee several times and never followed up on.

  41. Chrishogg

    Well, now this is a totally different situation. If "management" (whoever that may be) has addressed this with the employee several times, then, in my opinion, unless you are a manager with authority over this person, there's nothing you "officially" can do or should do other than report the issue to your manager, and let that manager figure out what to do.

    Tough position to be in, but this is not your issue to resolve ... if "management" is not taking any action, then I don't think you should be either, given it has been previously addressed ("management" gets paid the big bucks to resolve things like this).

    You can volunteer to help the employee improve as a personal favor, but as far as correcting him or making him improve, that is no longer (from what can be known so far) your concern.

  42. Anonymous

    I am their manager.

  43. Lorrie Thomas Ross

    Anyone who is a representative of your brand needs to communicate in a way that is professional. Many of my employees use this free app https://www.grammarly.com/browser/chrome to help catch typos. I made it a requirement for one team member who had challenges who gave me a "that's just who I am" response when we addressed it, it's made a world of difference. Hope this helps.

  44. Anonymous

    Yes Grammerly is great. I consult with an Italian law firm of attorneys who all speak English but sometimes struggle with word usage, spelling and phrasing things well and recommended it to them.

  45. Kitty Breed

    The paid version makes writing even better. I had a 3-day trial and didn't keep it due to the cost. I use the free version which is very good.

  46. Lorrie Thomas Ross

    And this language is in our onboarding guide (I omitted some confidential sentences) "We communicate well - What we are doing, Why we propose doing it...We spell check emails; We are professional in our communications and conduct; When we write emails, they are grammatically correct, clear, concise, and easy for the client to understand; We are clear in our client communications..."

  47. Kristin Burns

    Some people couple writing skills with intelligence, and get defensive that you think they are stupid if you criticize them. But really, it's a skill like any other that needs to be taught and continuously improved. I agree he needs training. Understand he will feel defensive but maybe frame it that you would expect the same training if he needed to learn a new language, program or platform for work. It sounds like his attitude and refusal to try are bigger problems that should be tied to performance reviews.

  48. Anonymous

    Perhaps it is time for a PIP? You, HR or someone higher up needs to sit him down and offer him some remedial language skills classes. Community colleges offer them and now most things are on-line. The arrogance of "it is what it is" on this subject is unacceptable and I'd be writing anyone I managed up faster than they could get the last word of that sentence out. He needs to be reminded that he represents the company and potential clients are going to think twice about hiring a company whose staff can't spell, uses poor grammar and doesn't bother to review emails/letters. I sure wouldn't trust the company to do a good job for me.

  49. Anonymous

    It is highly embarrassing. They do seem more concerned on being defensive.

  50. Pat Roque

    Spot on…

  51. Anonymous

    He may need the benefit of the doubt. And if so, maybe he needs some form of help vs punishment. My brother had an undiagnosed learning disability. Prevented him from barely reading or writing and frequently understanding the complexity of the English language. He was always "made to do more" and "needed to try harder" - he was killing himself to get better, but couldn't seem to get there. One day a teacher called him stupid. It was over then, and he gave up. He is brilliant, but needed help. When he decided he wanted to go to college, many years after high school, someone saw him struggling and suggested he get tested. He did tested and he did have a disability. It was life changing for him and the people in his life. All of this to say, there could be very deep-seated emotion tied to this person trying so hard and never getting better, but the punishment kept coming and they decided to finally give up - and this results in the phrase "it is what it is" when it comes to certain abilities... just my 2 cents.

  52. Anonymous

    I forgot to add this key bit of information. For me personally, any application that I can use to read back to me what I wrote has been so beneficial for me. It has really helped with phrasing so that others may better understand what I am trying to communicate. - I use WORD, but there are lots of other options available.

  53. GirlBossanova934974

    I stand with some commenters here. Please tell this employee to use Grammarly or a tool like it. Please use the tool or risk losing your job. ProWritingAid, WhiteSmoke, and Ginger are alternatives.

  54. Maureen B. Weisner

    Some excellent suggestions regarding remediation. How is it an employee option to refuse assistance regarding written business communication as you described?

  55. Anonymous

    I agree with this odd seemingly allowable "option." If this person refuses help - whether to assist with a true disability or grammar/language coaching - then he is simply too lazy to want to do the job professionally. I say fire him. There are plenty of us looking for work who speak and write professionally but cannot get hired. This type of uncoachable person should not be hogging a job.

  56. Angie Lawson Blume

    1) I would definitely cite very specific examples of what is considered to be "unprofessional". Is the language being used slang/too casual for the work environment or clientele, too imprecise and leaves the reader guessing at what is meant, or is inflammatory/inappropriate in some way? Each of these can be problematic, but their solutions may be very different.

    2) The concept of "it is what it is" is not an appropriate response and should be addressed as its own coaching item. Being provided constructive feedback is part of life. I do agree with comments below that the deliverer of the feedback should be aware of how the info is presented; however, the expectation should exist that the employee does have maintain the established standards for the role they occupy. At its core, this type of response could be read as disrespectful by some individuals while others may not find it as offensive.

  57. Anonymous

    There is a clear difference between professionalism and excusing projections when you "expect " ppl to act or behave a certain way. As long as the basics are covered, his "unprofessionalism" might be subjective per the company and manager. If it's outside the basic email and grammar based structure, which his not a professionalism thing, it's a " humans aren't robots and it's happens no matter who you are "thing ,then say something to your HR manager. Grammarly is a great tool to use, but lets not confuse things. Also please dont forget you live on planet earth where there are millions of reasons why someone does something. Also there like over 300 plus languages, he probably doesn't speak English, etc.

  58. Anonymous

    He speaks english though. It is grammatical errors. Past tense vs present tense etc.

  59. Anonymous

    I agrée with the other commenters. But I also wonder if this is a person that won’t ever listen to feedback. The “I am always right” problem.

    if This person reports to you then it is easier than if he/she is a coworker.

    Also are these emails going out to customers also, is that the worry?

    i would show examples and encourage grammarly or other tools to check. I hope this person takes the feedback.

  60. Anonymous

    Yes he emails customers and internal staff. Grammatical errors. They report to me.

  61. Anonymous

    I am experiencing a similar situation right now with someone who has both written and verbal communication challenges. Written challenges include spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization. I have given him "practice" communication to send internally and worked with recipients to give them a heads up about the underlying purpose of the communication, and also suggested online courses and tools like Grammarly. I've also explained that we just need to get the written skills to be satisfactory - not perfect. I'm wondering if the issue with your team member is a lack of skills versus not wanting to do a good job. Maybe it is a sore spot with the person and an approach of "let's work together to get your writing skills 'good enough'" would work.

  62. Anonymous

    There are quite a few comments here but I will share that I once had a direct report with dyslexia. She wanted to grow with the organization and represent her skills in a professional way. I worked with her on proofreading and using tools to help her ensure her written comms were good to go. A few months and she was good to go. You could present this as - I want you to show up professionally so that you have an opportunity to grow and be rewarded. Your comms style is not helping. What steps should we take together to ensure you are representing yourself and our team in the best possible way? Good luck.

  63. Nichelle Spyke

    I would recommend templates for frequently sent emails and also installing Grammarly.

  64. Jean Neuhart

    Not an unreasonable request, however who receives these communications can indicate how important it is to continue pursuing this. Are they just internal, or do clients see them? Also, perhaps implementing the use of Grammarly, templates, etc. across the board, and not just singling him out?

  65. Anonymous

    Are there any policies that you can refer to? A team wide message referring to company policy could be helpful.

  66. Anonymous

    I hate the expression “it is what it is” because it often is used to excuse laziness. I’m surprised this person has made it this far in the professional world with an attitude like that. With the exception of physical or mental illness, there is really no excuse other than sheer laziness. And if it’s just the employee being lazy and not taking responsibility for their own work, that is a whole different thing. Document everything and escalate to HR if necessary. Because it’s not about the errors, it’s the attitude.

  67. Anonymous

    True, but I said it to a client once. Company policy was if you wanted a transcript from federal court, it cost $150 flat fee. That is because I had to send a messenger to my office to get a check, messenger had to go across town to federal court house, wait in line at the clerk’s office, get the disk, bring it back to me, then I had to pay a court reporter to transcribe, then I had to print it. All those people needed to be paid. I pretty much broke even on that. Unfortunately, the transcripts were usually only about 5 pages including cover sheet and index. And I required payment before I would get the disk because …. Federal court case in my area often meant someone got caught having sex in a park. A lady came in to pick up her transcript and was arguing that 5 pages shouldn’t cost $150. I explained several times the process and that people had to be paid. She kept arguing, I kept explaining. I finally said “ma’am, it is what it is”. Because I didn’t know what else to say at that point and wanted her gone. My boss looked at me when she left and said she couldn’t believe I said that. I asked what I should have said instead? How many times am I required to replete myself?

  68. Anonymous

    In that case, you’ve already explained yourself numerous times. I would give a pass for that one. If people just don’t get it, there’s truly nothing else to say.

  69. Shelby C

    Have you thought about installing Grammarly on his machine?

  70. Anonymous

    No I gave him the word tools to correct grammar months ago and he did not use it.

  71. Anna Stirling

    If you provide direction and tools then I think you are not being taken seriously.

  72. Kristie White

    Unless he has some redeeming qualities that make him excellent in some area, I would put him on a performance plan. This isn't "what it is", this is part of his job - to speak and communicate professionally in all mediums - verbal, written, and any other medium required for his position. If he doesn't like it, he needs to find another job. Technology that self corrects does not equal an excuse for poor performance. However, if he desires to improve - you can include in the performance plan paid time to work with a coach - IF you want to keep him.

  73. Anonymous

    Agree wholeheartedly with Kristie's response. Him saying "It is what it is" is also disrespectful and unprofessional.... insubordination.

    I'm seriously thankful to be closer to the end of my career than just starting out.

  74. Anonymous

    Management is hard.

  75. Anonymous

    Definitely. I can't imagine saying this to a supervisor, especially one who is offering help. If you're in sales and miss your metrics constantly, you don't say, "it is what it is." You start trying to improve immediately. I loathe performance reviews as much as anyone else, but it should be mentioned because of the disrespectful attitude and disinterest in improving in an area that he's been told is not up to par.

  76. Grace Loggins

    If you can, make sure this isn't because of some hidden problem, like dyslexia. Some people are good at hiding it until they aren't. If it is dyslexia, look into ways to address the deficit.

    Otherwise, it's on him to improve, after being formally warned.

  77. Anonymous

    Asking him to review. It's not a request it's his duty.

  78. Anonymous

    It’s a good thought but it may not account for the humanity of the person. The person already wrote it to their best ability and what they felt was acceptable. Self-review won’t change their pattern of thinking.

  79. Quasheba BeyTM

    I observed this with past co workers but never quite knew what to do. I assumed that had to do with the quality of education those co workers had received. I love the solutions being posted here. I do think the writing classes would be better long term but grammerly could definitely help.

    It did not occured to me this could be dyslexia so thank you for everyone's insight. I just learned something new.

    Unless that person was a direct report toy would have to go above or to HR for any remedy.

  80. Tahirah Wineglass

    if your company offers training in verbal and written communications, employ him to take it promptly. Otherwise, include these deficiencies in his performance evaluations.

  81. Anonymous

    I purchased a training. Hope it helps.

  82. Verity

    No way. For me, written communication has to be clear and correct otherwise I struggle greatly to understand it and this can lead to miscommunications.

    I'd maybe try to speak to him once more about it extremely clearly and then take it to your supervisor / someone that can help if he becomes defensive and does not change.

    Perhaps it might be worth seeing if he has trouble spelling though? For example, I'm dyslexic and I can get defensive when people bring it up because I used to be ridiculed for it but this behaviour in a professional environment isn't acceptable and he needs to know this.

  83. Anonymous

    Aww I am sorry. People can be cruel.

  84. Verity

    They can but I've learnt to deal with it better now. Thank you <3

  85. Anonymous

    I have a few questions:
    What impact is this having on the actual work or is this just an annoyance for you personally?

    What tools, resources and support have you provided?What are the required duties of the position?
    What qualities/strengths does this employee have that led to them acquiring this position?
    Are you assigning quick deadlines for task completion?

    If you are a leader and responsible for the development of this employee, I would first ask these questions from a perspective of understanding and support.

  86. Anonymous

    I would say not a negative impact on me but when you email a client or executive with multiple grammatical errors, how does that make the company look.

  87. Jeni Kolstad

    I would be curious what "unprofessional" means to you and your company before providing insight.
    I get real weary when I see people talk about what is or is not professional because it is often based on a privileged position in society. I think we need to deconstruct what is professional and challenge what is typically a white, cis-het, male, abled person's view of what is professional.

  88. Anonymous

    RE: "I think we need to deconstruct what is professional and challenge what is typically a white, cis-het, male"

    Congratulations for turning a simple question into a race issue. It's obvious you have identity issues you want other to adopt.

    Presenting yourself in a professional manner, be it verbally, your appearance, writing, etc. is not a race or gender issue, it's a self-respect issue.

    If someone isn't being professional that's a clear indication they lack self-respect, which is on them. Regardless of a person's skin color, race, gender whatever... they should be held to the same professional standards as their peers.

    Allowing one employee to communicate in an unprofessional manner invites all their colleagues to also do so. What's wrong with EVERYONE being held to a professional standard when it comes to business?

    Seems to me Jeni you want employees to be allowed to dumb down, right? How does this "dumbing down" help the employer whom ALL SKIN COLORS depend on for a paycheck?

  89. Anonymous

    Yikes at this anonymous comment.

  90. Jeni Kolstad

    Oof. No kidding. Wow. There is a lot to take in and break down with that anonymous comment!

  91. Anonymous

    Umm

  92. Anonymous

    Wow...so much for DEI!!! since it seems clear that you have never been told something about your work that points to race, it's easy to say just what you said. I was in a company where every person of one race always had they were "intimidating" on the work and development plan and another race always said they could be more "assertive"! These things happen DAILY, so experience causes some to question to make sure the issue is not race or ethnicity but clearly professional.

    Another thing, as a group, are we being judging too harshly?

    I would hope that a manager would first before judging, find out if there are issues with reading, writing or maybe filtering. Everyone....even highly educated people, sometimes just do not write well. Students graduating now, do not write well and some do not read well. They can read, but comprehension is lacking. There are, as mentioned, disabilities that make reading more difficult for some than others. The employee may be defensive because no one has ever approached him correctly.

  93. Anonymous

    RE: "Everyone....even highly educated people, sometimes just do not write well. Students graduating now, do not write well and some do not read well. They can read, but comprehension is lacking."

    If somehow such people were hired and ended up working for me, our employer/employee would be very short. I don't tolerate any form unprofessional communication! My clients, customers and the other employees deserve to be communicated to in a professional manner at all times.

    PS:

    The employee is defensive because they have no respect for their manager, their colleague or themselves.

  94. Anonymous

    You sound like a real peach. Being professional and being excellent are two different things. It's perfectly okay to have standards that are specifically tied to work duties AND when people say be professional, they often mean conform to a specific cultural idea.

  95. Jeni Kolstad

    So, I've been trying to think about how to truly respond to this comment... and it is hard. I guess the first thing is that I felt so much disgust and hatred flowing through your words and it shocked me. I was simply providing another viewpoint and asking for further clarification so that we could deep dive into what is going on.

    Second, how does what I posted obviously show that I have "identity issues." I actually feel real solid in my identity, so much so, that I can evaluate my own bias in interactions with people and determine if something is truly unprofessional or if I have some learning to do in regards to other people's identities.

    Third, there is not a universal standard for what is "professional." Professional essentially means conducting oneself with integrity and respect. Now, this individual's response to the boss saying "it is what it is" could be considered unprofessional due to not being respectful. However, context is also important. I'm the boss of 4 employees and we have a fun work environment and we are a sarcastic bunch. If one of my employees said this to me, I'd likely laugh... and then say, okay, but seriously we gotta figure this out.

    Fourth, ooof - on the comment about dumbing down. There were literal laws in the United States that were called "anti-literacy" laws, where black people could not learn to read and write. These laws were used to keep enslaved black people under white peoples' control. Now, we expect people who come from families that never learned to read and write to have what we think is "proper grammar" or "professional communication." And why can't something like African American Vernacular English be the standard that we judge professionalism? Folks that use AAVE are often judged as "dumb," unprofessional, and subject these folks to ridicule. What if you had an employee who's first language was Spanish? Is it unprofessional to use Spanish to communicate? I could go on, but the point is - Yes, race comes into the picture whenever we talk about literally anything because we are holding people to a standard that was created by white people who speak English as a first language.

    Here is an article to expand upon this: https://allyfromnola.medium.com/why-white-people-grammar-policing-black-people-is-racist-5acba046d69b

    And I need to be done now.

  96. Anonymous

    RE: "Yes, race comes into the picture whenever we talk about literally anything because we are holding people to a standard that was created by white people who speak English as a first language."

    Race only comes into the picture by those looking to play the "I'm a victim!" card and those who a lazy.

    You do realize some of the greatest American writers were/are black. Thankfully James Balwin, Toni Morrison, Alice Walker, et al. didn't have your victim mentality,

    If you want to collect a paycheck form an employer, then you need to put aside any chip you have on your shoulder regarding your races and act professionally at all times, as opposes to creating false narratives to excuse why your not able to step up to expectyed standards.

  97. Anonymous

    BRAVO, Jeni!!! Excellent deep dive. I learned much from your response, thank you.

  98. Anonymous

    I'm late to this party so someone may have already said this all. You're not wrong to want your employee to communicate well, but there is a difference between "unclear" and "unprofessional." Both are correctable, but require different interventions. Not everyone has the same level of education; life experiences and cultural backgrounds are different; and--possibly most importantly--the company's (and your) expectations may not be clear. Just telling someone to be more professional or clear in their communications is not enough: they need examples and ongoing guidance. Finally, don't rule out a learning disability: if something like that is present, an entirely different kind of intervention is required.

    By the way, I am a writer and I am old. I have had to rethink my ideas about what is acceptable in professional communications.

  99. Anonymous

    OP. Can you provide some examples of the unprofessional writing. Are there swear words? Non inclusive language? Grammar mistakes? Spelling errors? Negative language?

  100. Lori Drapeau

    I do not agree with this at all! I think coming at the problem from a different angle may help. A private discussion with a prepared solution, such as a writing class, a coach, etc. Become this employees mentor. If their writing is the issue, help them fix it! Don’t throw them away!

  101. Barbara Thompson

    Perhaps. Are the written communications creating a bad situation within your company? Are they going to clients or outside of your company and creating a false impression of the company you all represent? To whom are these written communications being sent? You mentioned speaking unprofessionally; is his language inappropriate for the workplace? Is his grammar incorrect? Are his words and tone considered hate speech? Do you and your company deluge people with emails that necessitates quick responses (but also interrupts one’s workflow)?

    I think we would need examples of what and why it is considered unprofessional to you. Needing to proofread a communication before completing (which I interpret to mean an email) is a different situation than a completed product with mistakes in it.

  102. Anonymous

    Is the employee a piece of garbage to just “get rid of”?? More context is needed before you consider terminating someone’s employment. And there are other interventions that can be done before getting there.

    You say the other employees are watching and judging…is that because you’re judgemental? Saying that OP looks weak if the employee doesn’t get fired for their behavior…

  103. Anonymous

    Your comment is unnecessary and not helpful.

  104. Anonymous

    You need to make sure everything is documented. You deserve to have an employee that meets a certain standard and it will look bad on you and the company if it continues. You said he complains to HR, but as his manager and the attitude he is giving you, I would say you need to be meeting with HR. I would add the attitude would have to be improved. The rolling of the eyes and refusing to use the tools you have given him is not acceptable. He does not have a choice to take the class, use the software you choose like Grammarly, or improve if you tell him that needs to be done. His attitude is the most concerning to me. It is ok to have a common standard in a professional environment and that everyone is expected to meet a standard.

    The one problem I have seen is that not everyone receives the same education. Unfortunately, the education people receive is not standard depending on where you go to school. Not everyone receives a wonderful education that teaches them what they need to know in order to be a successful writer, and not everyone can afford to go to college. I have seen this a lot in manufacturing, and we have offered different development plans for those wanting career growth. However, he cannot refuse to do what you say, especially when you are trying to help instead of just putting him on PIP. If I was him, (although I can understand wanting to be defensive), I would be grateful you wanted to help instead of just getting rid of me.

  105. Anonymous

    I will add one more thing. I understand now more than ever as a parent with a child that needs extra support, that education and disabilities can be a huge factor in learning and retaining information. Income and the ability to get the support needed in and outside the school is incredibly important. My brother struggled in school, but he received the support needed to rise above his diagnosis. He is very successful now, but he was lucky because our mom was a teacher and would not give up until he received what he needed. Like others have said, there could be more to it, and seeing that in those I care about struggling with writing, etc. I would want to help and wonder if it is because of something else. But the unwillingness to try to improve and the bad attitude about it would be hard for me to get past.

  106. Anonymous

    If you’re asking that question you should really ask yourself if you are right for the job position you have.

  107. AYANNALYSE

    Just let him be, be nicer to him he will eventually catch up is not your problem to resolve his unprofessionalism that's what the manager is there for. Keep it moving don't mind his emails just worry about your own work. My 2 cents

  108. Anonymous

    He is my employee lol.

  109. AYANNALYSE

    Then why are you so afraid to speak up, tell him how to conduct or find a better one

  110. Anonymous

    Can you give specific examples. And have you cross checked these examples with HR policy. We all come from different backgrounds and sometimes these judgements can be overly subjective. Seeing some specific examples would help.

  111. Anonymous

    Past tense vs present tense. Word misspellings. Ironically an executive called me Friday and said they recieved an email from him and had no clue what he was saying.

  112. Barbara Thompson

    “Ironically an executive called me Friday and said they recieved an email from him and had no clue what he was saying.”

    I would like to point out that your spelling is unprofessional and you should have used spellcheck. Look to yourself first.

    Now please be a good manager and learn a bit about your employee and why he is struggling, before you insult him by slapping a grammar class on his desk. Are there challenges he faces that your insults will put the company risk for not making allowances? Is there a different way he can approach his written material.

    I fought the urge to say these things behind the cover of anonymity, but in the end, I decided that’s not how I roll.

  113. Anonymous

    Thank you. I am in a relaxed environment so not watching punctuation. He is struggling because he has been allowed to communicate in this manner. I have been here under 6 months, I am slowly making changes.

  114. Anonymous

    A bit harsh for one typo

  115. Anonymous

    Who cares about a typo in this forum? There is no boss here and no performance review that is tied to our comp. I disagree with that aspect of your post but on balance agree with the rest.

  116. Anonymous

    Not a good look on you.

    If I were that executive I'd be firing you for keeping such an employee on the payroll.

  117. Anonymous

    Tell him to try Grammarly.

  118. Dawn S. Cross

    Is he a direct report? If so, then no you are not asking to much. This could be something that you and he set goals for. Seeking help or even slowing down and not sending written communication until he has stepped back for an hour, half a day or so on and rereads it with a fresh eye.

    Is he a colleague? Then maybe you are. You’ve pointed it out and he has refused the help/assistance. Now is the time to hold off and see what happens.

  119. Anonymous

    He is my direct report. I advised him to use the word proofread option. He has not. Other previous managers advised him of the issue, however he has not made an effort to improve.

  120. Chrishogg

    So, I'm not understanding what the problem is.

    Others before you have mentioned this to him.

    You are his supervisor, and you've mentioned this to him.

    What a great place to work for this person. He can do sub-standard, unacceptable work, ignore what he's been told, doesn't have to be bothered with using writing aids, and has no intention of listening to or following through on anything Management (that would include you) tells him ...

    ... and yet he continues merrily along, does his own thing, and draws a paycheck.

    Please tell me where I can apply to work for your organization, as this sounds like an absolute wonderful place to work.

    As I write this, it is Sunday afternoon.

    If I were his boss / manager / supervisor, the first thing I would do tomorrow morning is fire this person, immediately, no questions asked .And if I were your boss, since you're the last in line, if you do not fire him, immediately, there would probably be a second person paying a visit to the Unemployment Bureau.

    Come on. Unless there is some legal element to all this, do your job and fire this person (even if he is the CEO's nephew or the owner's brother-in-law).

    PS: If this is a case of a disability, with accommodations the person still has to perform the job ... the person is not performing and refuses to take steps to improve ... and so....

  121. Anonymous

    I purchased a course to take for grammer improvement and business writing. If this doesn’t help…

  122. Anonymous

    Thius manager is carrying a subpar employee, which is the quickest way to demoralize those employees who give 100% to their job, their team and their employer.

  123. Anonymous

    AMEN!!!!!!

  124. Dawn S. Cross

    Based on this and the fact you indicated this is a touchy subject implies there is more going on. I would take a step back and look objectively at what he is doing and how it is being treated in the company. If the company is not helping you address this, maybe you should start documenting it all and making sure not only does he receive copies but that they also go into his personnel file as well.

  125. Anonymous

    In all honesty, this employee has a direct line to HR. I have to be very careful with him. He has gotten other managers in trouble. I wrangled in my manager and document everything.

  126. Dawn S. Cross

    I totally understand that predicament. The best course of action then is to continue to document it to him (document, document, document). Additionally, if HR is a stopping block, making sure you are well documented will help you as well - in addition to looping in your manager. Good luck and keep us updated (inquiring minds and all).

  127. Anonymous

    That's sadly an all too common scenario in the workplace. You're doin the right thing by moving up the chain of command, documenting with details dates & tims of occurrences, and providing him with the tools to become successful. Have you given a date deadline for him to complete the actions (grammar course/tutorial) in an actual Performance Improvement Plan that he has also signed?

    Praying for resolve here.... nobody likes to have to terminate employment.

  128. AYANNALYSE

    Clearly you understood, I'm sure that a few suggestions and anyone can improve, he might be dislexic or something you dont know so dont judge without knowing. She is just stating one side of the story plus some people's first language might not be English so if you expect proper punctuation then go and teach English In secondary school where you can be meticulous and you are actually getting paid for minutia.

  129. Chrishogg

    Hi Anonymous.

    It's Monday evening, 11-21-2022.

    Is your problem employee (the one who can't write and refuses to learn) still on the payroll?

    Curious people want to know.

  130. Anonymous

    Yes. It is a touchy situation. Purchased a writing course.

  131. Chrishogg

    Hi again ---

    Well, obviously, there's something going on here that I (and I assume everybody else who is commenting) do not know.

    You're the manager of this employee, and obviously it's on you to figure this out and make something positive happen.

    Good luck, and wish you the best.

  132. Anonymous

    I appreciate it. Hoping he takes it serious. No one held him accountable or gave him tools, so I am starting from scratch.

  133. Anonymous

    It’s great that you’re putting so much effort into helping this employee, but remember the old saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink?
    I would amend that to say, if the employee has never been held accountable, you may have an uphill battle here. If you are authorized to put him on a PIP, that may be a logical first step. And also, if this has been an issue for other managers, not just you, what I fail to understand is how this person is still employed at your company?

  134. Anonymous

    I have no idea. There were others that were mediocre, 1 left voluntarily.

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